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For an 11" class machine AMD just released the ideal processor. It is called Zacate and is part of the Bobcat based Fusion line. I realize Intel has nothing announced at the moment suitable for an Apple sub notebook

Oh Intel has announced a suitable processor. If Apple is willing to through out graphics performance improvement as a criteria then could use an i5UM right now. If Apple is willing to wait till next spring when the i5UM Sandy Bridge versions come out then would not have to trade off graphics.

The superior edge that AMD has for next 8-12 months or so is that they have an offering where make a slight trade-off on high end Floating Point performance for approximately as good driving the built-in screen graphics performance which comes in at several fewer watts than the Intel solution.

If going to shrink the battery and have more problems getting rid of heat, it is a better fit solution than the Intel offerings now or later.


Zacate provides for that due to its high integration.

High integration isn't as important as integrating the right components. Intel is hobbled right now because didn't integrate a GPU that Apple will tolerate deployed by itself.

That is why the Nvidia + C2D combo is the only highly viable option versus Zacate if Apple doesn't give up on graphics performance. If is different integration choice but the components integrated are better.


About the only problem one would have with Zacate is the 1.6 GHz announced top speed. But honestly just how much can you crame in performance wise in these ultra compacts.

The Zacate's 1.6 GHz is more so because it is pumps far more power into the graphics portion of the chip than the current intel CPU+GPU package solutions do.


Then again there is always the hope of unannounced faster clocked versions.

Maybe. Apple could have asked fora 2.0Ghz Zacate that runs at 20-22W. That is still a better two chip solution than the C2D+320m solution in terms of wattage if AMD's I/O chip isn't a power hog.



On top of Zacates other good points there is one big factor. AMD is hungery for some of Intels notebook market share. This could mean aggressive pricing for Apple as it is a great marketing opportunity for AMD.

So yeah I can see the intro model priced in the $800 dollar range.

If Apple gets a price break I doubt they will pass most of that along. Everyone who is in the mindset of Apple jumping on the AMD bus will mean lower Mac prices is extremely likely in for severe disappointment. Apple is likely to take any drop in CPU component prices to spend more on another component ( e.g., put in higher priced SSDs instead of HDDs or introduce a higher cost case , etc. ) .

Even with Intel CPUs Apple generally doesn't let the CPU's dictate more than 25% of the system price. Going with cheaper AMD chips would only impact less that 25% of the pricing. Nor is Apple going to take lower profit margins.


The $800 range is in the iPad zone. Apple isn't going to push one of their mobile Mac products into the same pricing zone as the iPad so that can cannibalize each other. They are going to add more value with some other feature/component to push the price back up over $950





They should be able to get such a machine out the manufactures door for around $500 thus allowing for Apples thick margins.

So not going to happen. Dropping the price from $1499 to $1099 would be hailed as magical by Apple. Nothing in the iPad range is even on their radar.
 
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christian_k said:
I dunno about audio/video capture with an MBA. It would be seriously underpowered for that.

Why do you think that? You could edit DV video on G3/G4 machines and on an iMac G5 even HDV could be edited well using Final Cut Express.

When a computer is small and looks "cute" many people think it is underpowered for anything but browsing, media consumption or light office work. But many movies and TV shows have been edited on machines with much lower specs than this new notebook.

Of course, you probably don't want to edit video on an 11'' screen, but a C2D is more than capable to do it.

Christian

I was recently using an iBook G3 (Dual USB) running 10.2 and iMovie 2 was actually quite speedy and usable. It can be done on low power machines.
I use my 13" MBP (current model) for editing stop motion movies in iMovie, it copes well - in fact, better than our iMac (late 2007, first aluminum model!). They're both 2.4GHz, iMovie '09 and Snow Leopard. Just because it's C2D doesn't mean it's "bad" or "underpowered".
 
ding! ding! ding! I think that the SSD card is definitely headed Will the controller and/or OS X make TRIM unnecessary?

Regardless of the technology - TRIM support should be better than no TRIM support.

About the only way to make TRIM unnecessary is to have a huge amount of "spare" space - such as making a 160 GiB drive and setting the controller to make it a 128 GB drive - the "wasted" 43.8 GB would let the 160 GiB drive perform like a 128 GB drive with TRIM support.

Note that some of the "TRIM not necessary" drives on the market have controllers that are aware of the NTFS filesystem. Not only is this a "very bad idea"®, it doesn't work with HFS+ drives!
 
I'm thinking, that since the photo is still there, and there haven't been any letter or phone calls from an array of attorneys, the photo is probably a fake...
 
Although the original MBA didn't become as "huge" as some thought, I really think an 11" version could do very well ... because of the iPad.

I know of a number of people who like the iPad a lot, but won't use it to replace their computer because they don't like the touchpad for normal typing. If a MBA was basically slightly thicker than the iPad, I think it would do well.

For the NEXT version, though, the MBA should have a Touch Screen interface like a thicker iPad, but flip out and lock in place to become a standard laptop format (like on hinges). The form factor would be the challenge here, but if anyone can make it work, it's :apple:
 
They will on Wednesday. They'll have flash support too.

Who are you smoking, why do you think there will be blu Ray? And flash support they have always had on Mac, which Is what this is about. But of course ios will never have flash
 
The 2GB / 4GB might be a deal breaker for me just because virtualizing with 4GB is a lot nicer than with 2GB. I often have 2 - 3 VMs open on my MBP. However, this 11.6" form factor is... well... very enticing.

I'm gonna have to see all the specs (obviously) but the 11.6" model (if it exists) is currently in my sites.

I don't understand why people insist on 4GB Ram on the Air. If you want power and speed get a MBPro.

The Air is for people who want a simple computer and don't feel the need to have 4-6 apps on at a time.
 
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feflower said:
The 2GB / 4GB might be a deal breaker for me just because virtualizing with 4GB is a lot nicer than with 2GB. I often have 2 - 3 VMs open on my MBP. However, this 11.6" form factor is... well... very enticing.

I'm gonna have to see all the specs (obviously) but the 11.6" model (if it exists) is currently in my sites.

I don't understand why people insist on 4GB Ram on the Air. If you want power and speed get a MBPro.

The Air is for people who want a simple computer and don't feel the need to have 4-6 apps on at a time.

Not only that but you'll have bottlenecks way before that 4gb of ram is even considered
 
About the only way to make TRIM unnecessary is to have a huge amount of "spare" space - such as making a 160 GiB drive and setting the controller to make it a 128 GB drive - the "wasted" 43.8 GB would let the 160 GiB drive perform like a 128 GB drive with TRIM support.
!

I'm no expert—all I know about SSD I've learned from anandtech.com, and I only understood 60% of it.

But Anand has said many times that the new Sandforce controllers are very good options for non-TRIM OSes (which is everything but Win7, yes?). Is that true, and does the Sandforce accomplish this without 33% "wasted" space?

From a macro perspective, it seems that TRIM is accomplishing via the OS and processor something that some SSDs manage themselves with memory so a sufficiently adept controller should be able to maintain almost new performance without massive memory overage.
 
I would hope that the "unknown" could be a 3G SiM card slot:). It seems reasonable that including a GSM SIM card reader would free up the USB port (from a USB modem) as well as streamline the whole mac mobile experience, but maybe it is just a memory SD card slot. :apple:

++

After getting used to my iPad 3G, I'd really miss GSM if it wasn't included on any small and light notebook.

I'm hoping Apple start rolling out USB 3 with this release too.
 
ding! ding! ding! I think that the SSD card is definitely headed for the rest of the lineup.

Rest? Errr it has already been in XServe for over a year. Slightly different format but the concept of a purely SSD driven box was pioneered on the XServe. You mean moved down to the MBA. LOL. Or if the XServe is on maintenance mode then this is where concept goes to live on.






The MBP has been able to accommadate 12 mm HDs, yet only ever ships with 9.5 mm drives. Would the card be able to fit on top of a standard hard drive in a traditional MBP?
If Apple is making the case thinning that gap likely isn't going to be there. Heck, the 9.5 mm may not be there.

Second that isn't a good place to to put a SSD thermally. If heat up the HDD don't really want to put bare flash components in close proximity. Likewise that perceived gap can be useful in getting air circulation around the drive for heat to radiate into.




The Seagate hybrid drive—the Momentus XT—has got great reviews, albeit with some serious caveats. Yet people love the idea of a hybrid drive. Huge sizes with *some* of the benefits of an SSD, at a reasonable price. So why is there no competition for the XT?

1. The caveats. It has limited utility.

2. The constraints. You can only add some much SSD storage if also have to enclose a 2.5 Drive. Would likely work better in a 3.5 drive but then loose the whole notebook market.

3. Rapidly changing Flash prices. This has changed lately but for a while Flash SSD capacity was getting larger quickly. The Hybrid is only going to play well when there is a large multiple between the native HDD capacity and the Flash part.

4. Biggest one though is for most systems can build hybrid drives out of discrete components if have right software. There are lots of folks running NetApp , ZFS , etc. storage systems where SSDs are used to cache the contents of HDDs. Each component goes off and does their "own thing" and don't have to incur integration costs.

Remember the controller for a hybrid drive flash is doing a different job than the controller for a general drive. It is pick out "hot spots" as they flow by and store some data and not other. That's different than storing everything that goes by. It is not 'read only' the caches have to be written and updated. It is a more slow moving, wider scope view of the data though.


The market is dying for more hybrid options. Especially ones with more than 4 GB of read-only SSD

Not really. if you drive the price too high then folks will bail for a more pure SSD drive if have money. If price sensitive will just go RAID with HDDs
Hybrid is aiming for that not too expensive , not too slow range in the middle. To some extent end up not statifying anyone on the extremes.

The hybrids solve the problem that the HDD caches for the last 4-5 years have sucked major wind. For example 50-64MB caches on 300-600GB drives. That means the cache contains 0.008-0.016% of data. That's small fractions of one percentage point. The hit rate is going to be pure crap. Compared with a 4GB cache where the cache is 0.6-1.3% of the data. You're just barely getting to the 1% range but might just make an impact on frequently stuff which is on an extended timescale.

Even with Flash the only way to get up in the 10% range requires more space than is available inside the small containers. ( have to use the space the spinning drive isn't using.) That's why folks are still aiming at integrated systems. Maybe if the 5.5" drive hadn't died out could have more volume to mate a 3.5" with several flash chips. Alas folks want to mate with almost the smallest box possible ( 2.5" )






Maybe this SSD card is Apple's attempt to fill this market—even if only as a BTO for Apple branded portables :eek:

that's not the market. The market is folks who just want to chuck the metal case the flash drives are in. To some extent all doing is stripping off the metal casing. Many flash drives don't fill the interior of those boxes. There is just "wasted" space inside those boxes that really only buys you structural compatibility.

There was already a mSATA and mini PCI-e UM-SSD markets before Apple. Apple will only be the most high visibility vendor. Other folks have used those designs already for a while now.
 
Macbook Pro just got updated in april. it wont be getting updated in next week.

actually maybe they will update the 13inch's cpu, to i3/i5

The Macbook Pros are a bit outdated and should be refreshed:

640m i7
Nvidia 400M series graphics card
USB 3.0
SATA 3.0 (SATA II is a bottleneck for some SSDs)
Bluray?
 
But Anand has said many times that the new Sandforce controllers are very good options for non-TRIM OSes (which is everything but Win7, yes?). Is that true, and does the Sandforce accomplish this without 33% "wasted" space?

First, "wasted" is a dubious adjective. Wasted is huge flawed and biased viewpoint of the issue. Pro NFL Football teams have around 60 players on a team but only 11 are on the field at at time. Are the other 49 players "waste"? No, that is a silly notion to apply to those other 49. Likewise for numerous sports teams there more players on the team than on the field. That doesn't mean the ones on the bench are a waste. If your starting left tackle goes down with a knee injury his back-up on the bench is clearly not a waste.

What you will see on sandforce drives is the term "over provisioned". Yes sandforce drives use over provisioned Flash storage to do a number of things among which dealing with write bursts that the incremental garbage collector can't keep up with. Sanforce controllers can usage different amounts of over provisioning if configured by drive manufacturer.



From a macro perspective, it seems that TRIM is accomplishing via the OS and processor something that some SSDs manage themselves with memory so a sufficiently adept controller should be able to maintain almost new performance without massive memory overage.

It is not whether you can collect the garbage it is when you can collect the garbage. That's all TRIM buys you; earlier triggers of collection. It pushes more information down to the drive so that it can get started on collecting the garbage earlier.

Without TRIM you are only left with the work you can squeeze in between requests from the user to read/write to the drive. On computers where there is just one user and they aren't constantly pushing data on/off the drive (e.g., open file , fiddle with for couple minutes, save ) there is plenty of garbage collection time.

What have a buffer in reserve allows is to deal with large bursts of requests for write that deplete the queue of blocks the garbage collector has collected for usage again.

Wasted is a flawed characterization because it is going to be used. Even without the collector and TRIM a certain percentage of Flash cells are going to fail ( knee injury) and you are going to need back ups. Before the failures occur can use them to shore up burst buffers. So actually are being used ( just like in NFL when different 11 take the field on defensive while the 11 from offense go to the bench. )

There are some folks who spin that drives are wasted unless fill them 90% full. Stuffing HDDs or SDDs full is a flawed notion to solely use to evaluate getting value out of the drives. Leaving a reasonable percentage "empty" is not wasting that space.
 
But Anand has said many times that the new Sandforce controllers are very good options for non-TRIM OSes (which is everything but Win7, yes?). Is that true, and does the Sandforce accomplish this without 33% "wasted" space?

First, "wasted" is a dubious adjective. Wasted is huge flawed and biased viewpoint of the issue. Pro NFL Football teams have around 60 players on a team but only 11 are on the field at at time. Are the other 49 players "waste"? No, that is a silly notion to apply to those other 49. Likewise for numerous sports teams there more players on the team than on the field. That doesn't mean the ones on the bench are a waste. If your starting left tackle goes down with a knee injury his back-up on the bench is clearly not a waste.

What you will see on sandforce drives is the term "over provisioned". Yes sandforce drives use over provisioned Flash storage to do a number of things among which dealing with write bursts that the incremental garbage collector can't keep up with. Sanforce controllers can usage different amounts of over provisioning if configured by drive manufacturer.



From a macro perspective, it seems that TRIM is accomplishing via the OS and processor something that some SSDs manage themselves with memory so a sufficiently adept controller should be able to maintain almost new performance without massive memory overage.

It is not whether you can collect the garbage it is when you can collect the garbage. That's all TRIM buys you; earlier triggers of collection. It pushes more information down to the drive so that it can get started on collecting the garbage earlier.

Without TRIM you are only left with the work you can squeeze in between requests from the user to read/write to the drive. On computers where there is just one user and they aren't constantly pushing data on/off the drive (e.g., open file , fiddle with for couple minutes, save ) there is plenty of garbage collection time.


What have a buffer in reserve allows is to deal with large bursts of requests for write that deplete the queue of blocks the garbage collector has collected for usage again.

Even with TRIM you still have to sequeeze the collectdion into the idle periods. You benefit if the idle periods are more widely space by pushing into queue earlier and hopefully catch enough idle periods. If there are practically no idle periods sending down all the TRIM data essentially slows down the read/write requests so can catch up (basicaly forces small idle points). TRIM isn't a panacea if constantly writing though for extremely long periods of time.



Wasted is a flawed characterization because it is going to be used. Even without the collector and TRIM a certain percentage of Flash cells are going to fail ( knee injury) and you are going to need back ups. Before the failures occur can use them to shore up burst buffers. So actually are being used ( just like in NFL when different 11 take the field on defensive while the 11 from offense go to the bench. )

There are some folks who spin that drives are wasted unless fill them 90% full. Stuffing HDDs or SDDs full is a flawed notion to solely use to evaluate getting value out of the drives. Leaving a reasonable percentage "empty" is not wasting that space.
 
The Macbook Pros are a bit outdated and should be refreshed:

640m i7
minimal effect. Besides updating now just kicks the transition to Sandy Bridge farther back in time.
Compared to what can get next year this current stuff bites. this is like expanding you line up with more
Core Solos when the Core Duos are just several months down the road.


Nvidia 400M series graphics card
Err... which generally run hotter than the 300 series... no don't see it.
Chucking Nvidia for just as fast and cooler AMD version perhaps. It doubt Apple wants to rub Nvidia's nose in it. It is much cheaper just to keep selling.


Where is all of this copious empty space on the current boards ?

SATA 3.0 (SATA II is a bottleneck for some SSDs)

See above.



As long as the component will cost more they have ample excuse (in addition to all the others they have used so far) not to put it in. Apple prices are already higher than average. So don't need to pass along yet another cost increase if can help it. Nor are they likely to "eat" the extra costs with lower margins.
 
Tempted

I will be tempted to get one of these rumored Macbook Air models if it is true. I have always wanted to have an SSD as my storage.
 
I know of a number of people who like the iPad a lot, but won't use it to replace their computer because they don't like the touchpad for normal typing. If a MBA was basically slightly thicker than the iPad, I think it would do well.

I'm one of those people — I like my iPad a lot, but I'm not all that keen of the on-screen keyboard. So, I pair it with my Apple bluetooth keyboard. Problem solved. Granted, my iPad can't do nearly as much labor-intensive work as a laptop. But I'd still prefer it over a netbook (even one as elegant as an 11-inch MacBook Air would be).
 
In a couple of years that will be iPod touch or iPad territory!
I might pick up an iPod Touch next month if from Amazon or Fry's in some combo with a case. I'll be selling a spare computer and that's enough to cover for a 32 GB.

I need Sandy Bridge and some GPU power before I consider a new notebook. Apple is once again dead for me.


Intel's and nVidia's pissing match making this a "necessity" is what makes my insides hurt.
Apple could decide to make a larger notebook, oh wait.
 
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