Boy Punished for Talking About Gay Mom

[Dros]

Originally posted by manitoubalck
You Americans are sooo ulta conservative. Then again Australia is the complete opposite where no one really cares what, when or to whome you say it to. Watch 'South Park' that takes the piss out of your ultra conservative nature.

How about this report from Australia:

"Many gay-hate murderers were exceptionally brutal, surprisingly young, and killed to support a society they believed approved of their actions, a report released yesterday says.

Weapons used in the 74 murders included a claw hammer, a saw, a fire extinguisher, a spade, a car wheel brace, and a crossbow and arrow. Most victims died from being kicked and punched with great force, the report said.

Anti-gay violence was dangerously underreported, and many gay men and lesbians had grown to expect a level of violence to affect their lives, he said.

While inner-city Sydney has one of the largest gay and lesbian subcultures in the world, it is also the scene of a large percentage of the state's gay-hate crimes."

Shall I rail against Aussies being ultra-conservative hate mongers? Or realize violence against gay people is everywhere? Or realize you shouldn't generalize about a whole country based on a report from the deep South or inner city.

And this brings up dcoltonbrown with the "how can you compare the lynchings and murders... with the sugar coated gay lifestyle". Gosh, I don't know. Maybe because both gays and slaves experienced lynchings and murders?

 

[dcoltonbrown]

Phobo...now that was funny!
Nonetheless, I love it when you and people like PNW have to resort to insults when having a discussion. I disagree with you, so what! Isn't the idea of being able to disagree one of the deepest roots of this discussion. I mean think about it...you are doing the same thing that you are criticizing - attacking someone simply because the think differently than you!

OH Yeah, PNW...please explain the logic - and while your at it, explain to me the "intelligence" involved with personal attacks during a discussion

Each instance has its own history and reasons for existence. Are there differences? Absolutely. They are all examples of bigotry. If you think the lives of gay people are "sugar coated" then you should learn more of the reality of antigay violence in our society. Read about the death of Matthew Shepard and then tell me his life and death was easy. That is not an isolated incident. Such assaults take place far to frequently. Does it mean it is the same as the horrors of slavery? Of course not, but simple minded prejudice exist towards many people and it has to be fought against all.

It doesn't matter if being gay or straight is genetic or the result of the specific history of an individual's experiences that make someone look to a particular gender for their intimate relationships. Whatever the reason we (gay and straight) love the people we do, we should have the right to do so as adults without the impact of the narrow-minded bigotry of others.

Well said, but I disagree with your argument and I think that perhaps the "sugar coated" comment was misunderstood. My point was that compared to other tragedy's, gays have it easy in comparison. nonetheless...I can't sit here and let you categorize gays as helpless victims either. Yes, Shephard was a tragedy and violence toward anyone like that should never occur. But...it is no way comparable to the trials and tribulations many other people, who don't have the benefit of a closet, faced in the past and even today.

With that said...I realize I probably ruffled the feathers of a few people who have chosen an alternative lifestyle. I apologize and I really don't mean to be offensive. I believe, that what people do in their own homes is their business. But to force me to accept a lifestyle I don't agree with is pretty damn close to nazism.

As for you PW...I will concede choice just to take it out of the discussion...but when it comes to perversion, I will not budge. It is perverted that gay men troll parks and other public places for indiscriminate sex...it is perverted to lobby for man child relationships, and it is perverted to lust after someone purely for the purpose of sexual satisfaction especially when it is physically impossible to procreate. It is perverted to try to recruit kids into a homosexual lifestyle. And uit is perverted to teach our kids about a lifestyle that is defined by sodomy and other unnatural acts.

 

[dcoltonbrown]

Originally posted by Dros
How about this report from Australia:

"Many gay-hate murderers were exceptionally brutal, surprisingly young, and killed to support a society they believed approved of their actions, a report released yesterday says.

Weapons used in the 74 murders included a claw hammer, a saw, a fire extinguisher, a spade, a car wheel brace, and a crossbow and arrow. Most victims died from being kicked and punched with great force, the report said.

Anti-gay violence was dangerously underreported, and many gay men and lesbians had grown to expect a level of violence to affect their lives, he said.

While inner-city Sydney has one of the largest gay and lesbian subcultures in the world, it is also the scene of a large percentage of the state's gay-hate crimes."

Shall I rail against Aussies being ultra-conservative hate mongers? Or realize violence against gay people is everywhere? Or realize you shouldn't generalize about a whole country based on a report from the deep South or inner city.

And this brings up dcoltonbrown with the "how can you compare the lynchings and murders... with the sugar coated gay lifestyle". Gosh, I don't know. Maybe because both gays and slaves experienced lynchings and murders?

Do not compare the death of millions of slaves to a handful of murders you are claiming! How about a source for that article.

 

[x86isslow]

Originally posted by manitoubalck
You Americans are sooo ulta conservative. Then again Australia is the complete opposite where no one really cares what, when or to whome you say it to. Watch 'South Park' that takes the piss out of your ultra conservative nature.

howz that aboriginal rights thing going for all you *liberal* aussies down there?

i REALLY doubt that australia is as opposite the american temperment as you would make it out to be.

lay off the aussie-chauvinism pal. just because this happened in america doesnt preclude the equal probability that it could happened elsewhere.. like in your town.

btw.. i dont watch south park, so maybe you could explain to me what on earth pissing has to do with this unfortunate incident?

edit: looks like Dros posted a similar point while i was typing mine up.

 

[rainman::|:|]

Originally posted by dcoltonbrown
As for you PW...I will concede choice just to take it out of the discussion...but when it comes to perversion, I will not budge. It is perverted that gay men troll parks and other public places for indiscriminate sex...it is perverted to lobby for man child relationships, and it is perverted to lust after someone purely for the purpose of sexual satisfaction especially when it is physically impossible to procreate. It is perverted to try to recruit kids into a homosexual lifestyle. And uit is perverted to teach our kids about a lifestyle that is defined by sodomy and other unnatural acts.

Let's have a lesson in stereotypes.

Black people do not eat watermelon and fried chicken all day.

mexicans don't just sleep and clean.

Gay people do not recruit children, want sex with children, and 99% do not do things like "troll". those ****s over at nambla need to burn, i think we can all agree on that, but people like that do happen to be gay. just like men who have sex with little girls happen to be straight. sexual orientation has nothing to do with these crimes, and frankly it's irresponsible to try to claim that they do.

gay people do not recruit children. period. it's amazing that this little rumor has persisted for 20 years with absolutely no evidence EVER. it's like urban-legend-meets-conspiracy-theory... it's an absurd claim meant only to slander.

as for the trolls. unfortunately, there are some gay people that go so completely nuts from being ostracized from society (that's my theory anyway) that they become sex-obsessed, and instead of falling in love and forming a monogamous relationship with someone, they do all sorts of things. it's pretty sad when it happens, a lot of potential wasted in the sewers. but again, this happens to very few gay people, unfortunately everyone knows about the infamous park in town that gays frequent, but no one knows about the committed gay couples living in the neighborhood. it's all about visibility, and the sluts out there are a lot more visible.

Lots of sex are not for procreation. What about sterile heterosexual people? or people on birth control? do you hate condoms?

i have a feeling that if sex was only for procreation, women wouldn't have clits.

pnw

 

[ColoJohnBoy]

Originally posted by dcoltonbrown
No one is "sweeping" anyone under the rug. I don;t want my childfren to be taught that homosexuality is acceptable. I don't want my children to be exposed to sexual perversion. I don't want my kids to CHOOSE to be gay because it is socially acceptable, neat or fashionable. AND, you are right, we live in a diverse world...that is great...but I don't include people who choose to be different in that equation. That is like saying that we HAVE to accept reconstruction era mentailties and the Aryan movement because who are we to say that something is right or wrong! The type of mentality that anyone that disagrees with you is a racist is a scary, dangerous mentality!

Dude. Wow. Dude.

I didn't want to be gay. For 19 years of my life I didn't want to be gay. I grew up in the Mormon church, one of if not the most intolerant forums as far as homosexuality is concerned. I ridiculed gay people I knew, I read all the anti-homosexuality literature from Focus and the Family and such. I could have chosen to live as a heterosexual, but that wouldn't change the fact that I am, in fact, attracted to other men and not a shred of me is attracted to women.

I walked nineteen years in your shoes. Try walking a day in mine.

 

[e-coli]

Originally posted by dcoltonbrown
I don't want my kids to CHOOSE to be gay because it is socially acceptable, neat or fashionable.

*sigh*
Okay. I can see you're one of those people who cast reason and logic aside (for whatever reason...who knows)
But, you should know that being homosexual is not a "choice". Much like your being turned on by women is not a "choice" You just are and that's that.

AND, you are right, we live in a diverse world...that is great...but I don't include people who choose to be different in that equation. That is like saying that we HAVE to accept reconstruction era mentailties and the Aryan movement because who are we to say that something is right or wrong! The type of mentality that anyone that disagrees with you is a racist is a scary, dangerous mentality!

This is a truly unbelievable perversion of logic.

 

[dcoltonbrown]

Gay people do not recruit children, want sex with children, and 99% do not do things like "troll". those ****s over at nambla need to burn, i think we can all agree on that, but people like that do happen to be gay. just like men who have sex with little girls happen to be straight. sexual orientation has nothing to do with these crimes, and frankly it's irresponsible to try to claim that they do.

almost a good point...probably could have been if you would have been apologetic for catholic priests as well. And sexual orientation has everything to do with those crimes. I am not defending pedophiles - gay or straight...neither should you!

as for the trolls. unfortunately, there are some gay people that go so completely nuts from being ostracized from society (that's my theory anyway) that they become sex-obsessed, and instead of falling in love and forming a monogamous relationship with someone, they do all sorts of things. it's pretty sad when it happens, a lot of potential wasted in the sewers. but again, this happens to very few gay people, unfortunately everyone knows about the infamous park in town that gays frequent, but no one knows about the committed gay couples living in the neighborhood. it's all about visibility, and the sluts out there are a lot more visible.

so it is now societies fault that gay men troll parks for indiscriminate sex. Is it societies fault that they are gay too? What about gay bars? Are all of them ostracized by society while they are doing the unmentionable in the restrooms? Do normal, monogamous gays frequent gay bars?

Lots of sex are not for procreation. What about sterile heterosexual people? or people on birth control? do you hate condoms?

Good point and I would have been dissapointed if you didn't bring it up. Nonetheless...the point of sex, whether we take steps to prevemt it or not is to procreate

 

[e-coli]

Originally posted by dcoltonbrown
It's not that simple. How can you compare the plight of a black to the plight of a homosexual? How can you compare lynchings, murders and slavery because of the way someone was born...that cannot be hidden or attributes that can't be placed in a closet? How can you compare the Japanese internement camps to the sugar coated life a gay person experiences in comparison? No...you can't compare the gay lifestyle to a race or even a religion. And you certainly can't compare a hideable choice to an obvious inborn trait that can never be hidden (unless you are Michael Jackson of course).

So, basically, you want homosexuals to live a life of isolation. Devoid of any passion or human connection.

Is that right?

Did you ever think that it's this extreme shame and guilt (perpetrated by individuals with a mentality such as yourself) towards their own sexual orientation that leads some unfortuante souls to be sexually maladjusted - hence seeking out sexual outlets that are easy to hide (i.e. children)?

 

[Ugg]

Originally posted by dcoltonbrown
Nonetheless...the point of sex, whether we take steps to prevemt it or not is to procreate

Maybe amongst our four-legged friends but humans have sex not just for procreation but also for enjoyment. You would do well to read up on sex and homo sapiens before you spout such old testament bs.

 

[dcoltonbrown]

ecoli,

Would'nt you say that commercializing homosexuality and forcing pro gay sentiments in a society would encourage kids to experiment or justify sexual gratification (sodomy)?

Is that illogical because i disagree with you?

as for the pervesion of logic statement...perhaps, but how else can you discuss something when logic is dumbed down to personal insults? But, don't you think that if you are preaching tolerance that you should be tolerant of all beliefs...including the ones you disagree with...or is your position so strong and so correct that you cant tolerate disssenting opinions?

AND DIDN'T I SAY THAT I WILL CONCEDE CHOICE I am giving you all that point, but you are still fighting me on it.

 

[rainman::|:|]

Originally posted by dcoltonbrown
almost a good point...probably could have been if you would have been apologetic for catholic priests as well. And sexual orientation has everything to do with those crimes. I am not defending pedophiles - gay or straight...neither should you!

When did I do that? i don't give a rip about catholic priests. pedos in robes are still just pedos, they are particularly heinous because they prey on an inherent trust. considering the small percentage of pedophiles that are priests, attacking catholic priests is not about helping children, it's about attacking the catholic church.

which i am not above.

so it is now societies fault that gay men troll parks for indiscriminate sex. Is it societies fault that they are gay too? What about gay bars? Are all of them ostracized by society while they are doing the unmentionable in the restrooms? Do normal, monogamous gays frequent gay bars?

first off, unless you've been in the bathroom of a gay bar, don't presume to tell me what goes on. i've been in a gay bar a handful of times, in my younger days, and i never observed any sexual activity, beyond the suggestive clothing that most assuredly happens in normal bars. Secondly, very little of the gay community actually frequents gay bars. When i go to a bar, it's to drink, so i go someplace within crawling distance of my house none of my gay friends go to gay bars. some people do, but it's nothing any more sinister than regular dance clubs.

Good point and I would have been dissapointed if you didn't bring it up. Nonetheless...the point of sex, whether we take steps to prevemt it or not is to procreate

And you know this how? Because the bible tells you so? because a voice told you? i don't know about you, but i never got an instruction manual with my body. and nothing in science, which is the only rock we have to collectively cling to, supports your little theory.

pnw

 

[jrv3034]

Originally posted by dcoltonbrown
As for you PW...I will concede choice just to take it out of the discussion...but when it comes to perversion, I will not budge. It is perverted that gay men troll parks and other public places for indiscriminate sex...it is perverted to lobby for man child relationships, and it is perverted to lust after someone purely for the purpose of sexual satisfaction especially when it is physically impossible to procreate. It is perverted to try to recruit kids into a homosexual lifestyle. And uit is perverted to teach our kids about a lifestyle that is defined by sodomy and other unnatural acts.

Wow. Ok, I'm going to try to not insult anyone here, but I can't promise anything...

dcoltonbrown: Just out of curiosity... How old are you? I'd be interested to know how opinions on this matter vary according to age.

I wonder if you've ever talked at length to someone gay about their sexual orientation. I grew up in quite the conservative society, and had not really met anyone openly gay until college. Being involved in theater and the arts in general at college, I was placed by default in the company of several gay men, and became friends with some of them. In some of my conversations with them, they said that after puberty struck, they always felt like there was something "not quite right" whenever they would go out with girls, but they figured that they were just inexperienced. But after a while it became apparent that not only were they not attracted to women, but that it felt "right" when they were in a relationship with other men. It wasn't a concious choice, it just happened. Like you can fall in love with a woman; you can't choose to love someone, it "just happens". And the worst part was, after realizing they were gay, having to pretend in front of their cassmates that they were straight. They said being in the closet was torture.

Love and lust are two very different things. Do gay men seek out other gay men just to have sexual relationships? Some do. So do some straight men. Hence the abundance of prostitution in the world. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with it.

As for homosexuality being perverse, well, that's certainly up to each individual to decide what is moral and what is not. However, bear in mind that less than 100 years ago some people (a lot of people) thought it was perverse for a black person be in a relationship with a white person. A lot of people though it was perverse for women to work for a living, instead of marrying someone by 19 and having babies and cleaning the house. A lot of people thought it was perverse for a married heterosexual couple to enjoy "plain old regular" sex; at some point the Vatican decided it was ok for Catholic married couples to enjoy sex (as long as no contraceptives were involved). The list goes on and on...

The point is, deciding things are wrong just because you disagree with them is the same mentality that allowed the inquisition, the slave trade, the holocaust, and many other atrocities to happen. If you disagree with homosexuality, fine. But that doesn't allow you, a teacher, or the government to punish a 7 year old kid for explaining the circumstances of his family to another. It's called freedom of speech, man. I completely disagree with racism, but if someone wants to be a member of the KKK, I can't, I WON'T stop them, as long as they don't hurt anyone.

Try to have an open mind. It will make you a better person.

 

[dcoltonbrown]

Originally posted by e-coli
So, basically, you want homosexuals to live a life of isolation. Devoid of any passion or human connection.

Is that right?

Did you ever think that it's this extreme shame and guilt (perpetrated by individuals with a mentality such as yourself) towards their own sexual orientation that leads some unfortuante souls to be sexually maladjusted - hence seeking out sexual outlets that are easy to hide (i.e. children)?

You totally missed the point on that one..BUT I AM OFFENDED THAT IT IS NOW MY FAULT THAT SEXUALLY PERVERTED GAYS HAVE SEX IN PUBLIC PARKS AND WITH LITTLE BOYS. I really am offended...and that downright pisses me off. Quit blaming everyone else for yours and other peoples shortcomings (I am not implying you are gay or have sex with little boys either)

As for you Ugg,

Just because we have the abilty to enjoy sex doesn't necessarily make indiscriminate sex right...does it?

 

[e-coli]

Originally posted by dcoltonbrown
ecoli,

Would'nt you say that commercializing homosexuality and forcing pro gay sentiments in a society would encourage kids to experiment or justify sexual gratification (sodomy)?

I disagree that homosexuality is being "commercialized". You just see a segment of society finally free to be themselves. Homosexuals are ecstatic at the fact that they're FINALLY on the cusp of not only being tolerated but - - accepted for who they are.

And the answer is "no". I, and most straight men I know, wouldn't experiment with being homosexual for any amount of money. I'm simply not interested.

as for the pervesion of logic statement...perhaps, but how else can you discuss something when logic is dumbed down to personal insults?

As far as I know, I have never personally insulted you.

I just said you were being illogical.

 

[uhlawboi80]

Ok, seeing as 87.4% of rapes were commited by white heterosexual males (legal study of sexual asaults, numbers assembled by reporting agencies of the NIH) im gonna call you on it. you RAPIST. So what that a very FEW gay men go have consensual sex in a park, you str8 men go out and rape women in the parks. Now whos over generalizing?

and YES, normal, monogamous gay men do go to gay bars/clubs all the time. Im one of them. I go out all of the time. I go to circuit parties, in fact for over a year i was dating a circuit DJ from another city...we never cheated on each other, i we traveled to see each other weekly. Yet i still managed to stay in law school, work for HRCs legal department, and work for the VAs regional counsel. Rather normal and balanced if you ask me. So apparently it happens. Every gay bar/club isnt a den of sex and when we say dancefloor we arent implying "orgy" but thank you for asking.

 

[rainman::|:|]

Originally posted by dcoltonbrown
Would'nt you say that commercializing homosexuality and forcing pro gay sentiments in a society would encourage kids to experiment or justify sexual gratification (sodomy)?

Would you say that showing black people in movies and on TV, having shows with an african-american theme, or letting black children attend school with your children the "commercialization" of blacks?

and no, i would say that accepting gay people in society would not lead to gay experimentation. fact is, kids experiment, that's never changed through history-- in a pro *or* anti gay society. if you're so interested in psychological reprocussion, don't the tenants of modern psychology show that treating homosexuality as a taboo will make kids want to 'try' it more? it certainly works well enough with any taboo out there--

pnw

 

[rainman::|:|]

Well this is turning into a regular funfest.

Originally posted by dcoltonbrown
You totally missed the point on that one..BUT I AM OFFENDED THAT IT IS NOW MY FAULT THAT SEXUALLY PERVERTED GAYS HAVE SEX IN PUBLIC PARKS AND WITH LITTLE BOYS. I really am offended...and that downright pisses me off. Quit blaming everyone else for yours and other peoples shortcomings (I am not implying you are gay or have sex with little boys either)

assume for one moment that there is nothing inherently wrong with being a gay person, which is what we're asserting: you don't think that living in constant fear, your entire life, mortal fear, would screw with a person after a while? gay people have much higher instances of social-related mental disorders... social phobia running common. nymphomania is a social-based mental illness, and it's shared by straight people, too. YES there are straight people that do what you described above.

Just because we have the abilty to enjoy sex doesn't necessarily make indiscriminate sex right...does it?

who knows? that's personal ethics. but i certainly don't think sex in a monogamous relationship is wrong, even if i don't necessarily want to picture it...

pnw

 

[rainman::|:|]

Originally posted by Counterfit
I heard somewhere, and this is completely without verification, that a very large majority (85% or more) of sexual offenders would describe themselves as heterosexual Nor would it feel so darn good for the guys! I think I should also point out that sex is (supposed to be anyway) an expression of love, not just a savage lust.

I agree completely, sex is best when it's between two people that love each other. lust has its moments, but it usually doesn't come with good consequences. love is it's own reward.

pnw

 

[tazo]

i was punished for saying war in front of an iraqi person in my world geo class year...

injustices occur on all fronts.

also, i just kinda skimmed the last page for interesting statements, and i wanted to respond to the guy who said he doesnt care to see gay people in the park etc:

I will tell you that in all of my time spent downtown taking pictures, and going to beaches around washington, and being an active citizen in washington, I have yet to ever see more than 1 gay couple making out in public -- perhaps this is a case of being ostracized, but to be honest i think i would take pnw's potential view, and say that gay people have to view heterosexual relationships all the time. I am not saying I agree completely with paul, or completely with that poster, but I think it raises an interesting point: should gay couples be treated diff in public than straight couples...

well lets not go there...

 

[e-coli]

And I have to say, I never understood this whole "sodomy" argument.

So I f I decide to "enter through the back door of the nightclub" with my fiance, is that morally wrong?

The argument doesn't hold water, IMO.

 

[rainman::|:|]

Originally posted by tazo
I will tell you that in all of my time spent downtown taking pictures, and going to beaches around washington, and being an active citizen in washington, I have yet to ever see more than 1 gay couple making out in public -- perhaps this is a case of being ostracized, but to be honest i think i would take pnw's potential view, and say that gay people have to view heterosexual relationships all the time. I am not saying I agree completely with paul, or completely with that poster, but I think it raises an interesting point: should gay couples be treated diff in public than straight couples...

personally i think that holding hands on either side is fine, holding each other's asses isn't. a quick peck is cute, a steamy makeout session is wildly inappropriate. sure we all have romantic moments where everything just falls together, and that's great, but groping just isn't cool...

it actually doesn't upset me to see straight couples PDA (within reason)... it's very heartwarming that two people have found each other in this world. it does make me a little jealous, knowing that if i did the same thing, someone might make a very rude comment, or worse... it's one thing to be afraid to put your arm around your date because you're shy, it's quite another to be afraid because you'll cause a scene. when i was dating, i was acutely aware that gay people have been beaten for nothing more than holding hands at dinner...

pnw

edit: to the above post, i reiterate that 'sodomy' includes oral sex between a heterosexual couple...

 

[dcoltonbrown]

OK Paul...first things first.

I judge people by the content of the character, not by their race, religion or sexual preference. Just because I don't agree with a lifestyle doesn't mean I hate them. Yeah, you could go with the your either for me or against me stance...and that is too bad.

So if there is nothing inherently wrong with being gay...it is still a sexual perversion to have indiscriminate sex in public places. And no matter what you say, it is not my fault or anyone elses that these perverts do this!

I really wish you would quit comparing gays and blacks. It is apples and oranges and has nothing to do with this debate. And just to let you know, I am black...and I hate it when people do that. If you feel you are in danger, all you have to do is go back in the closet....if I feel in danger, what can I do? (Although for some reason I think that perhaps you would remain steadfast out of principle - that is a compliment)

So I guess I am not a rapist lawboy

JRV

Well written. I can only say that despite what everyone thinks, I am a very tolerant person...but making homosexuality political is a huge mistake in my book. And as for your point...it goes both ways. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion,

 

[e-coli]

Originally posted by paulwhannel
edit: to the above post, i reiterate that 'sodomy' includes oral sex between a heterosexual couple...

That's precisely what I mean. There's nothing "unnatural" about that. I think sodomy is just another "big scary word' used to intimidate the less intelligent.

 

[Steradian]

OK everyone lets take a breather.
Let us understand that it is very hard to convey a message Via internet boards, and that perhaps not everyones interpretation is the same. From what I understand(could be wrong correct me if I am), dcoltonbrown does not like gays in public "flaunting a lifestyle". Which I am not sure why you can't cope with. As people who are homosexuals have to deal with us "flaunting" our heterosexual life style. Albeit we are considered the "norm" but aren't WE forcing a lifestyle upon them?
PW I think you are making progress, but I am not sure dcoltonbrown wants to listen to what you have to say. Anyone here ever taken a soiciology class...just wondering? it might help clear up the whole people being affected by changes in general opinion.