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Boy Punished for Talking About Gay Mom
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Just because we have the ability to enjoy sex doesn't necessarily make indiscriminate sex wrong.....does it?
What's your point? In this day and age, indiscriminate sex isn't wise but that's not to say that it is inherently wrong. Your values seem to indicate that it is. Why is that? Did your bible tell you so?
I've read somewhere that ~10% of all chlidren were fathered by someone other than the husband of their mother, while she was married to him that is. While homo sapiens has progressed to the point that sex is for fun as much if not more than it is for procreation, the fact remains that our animalistic or if you prefer, biological urges are such that the man who fathers the most children is the one who wins the genetic longevity game. Therefore, the more you have sex, the more your genes will live on. Although we try to deny this, it is a fact of life for homo sapiens. A species that is not, nor ever has been monagamous.
So, you seem to feel that the little boy should be punished and that children like him should be educated apart from other children. While it is your perogative to educate your children as you wish, within reason of course. It is not your choice to say what social norms should or should not be present in your child's school. BTW, homosexuality and gay parents are a fact of life, they always have been and always will be. To deny the fact is to deny all of human history. Now who is hiding in the closet?
1st of all, I am not upset with anyone. I am quite enjoying this discussion. But what kills me is the fact that since i am the only one with a dissenting opinion...I all of a sudden am not listening. This all started out with personal insults and it has evolved quite nicely I believe. I realize that this would be a sensetive subject to our gay friends and I hope that I am not insulting anyone...although it could be construed as an insult just by disagreeing...and I can't apologize for having a difference of opinion. It is not in my nature!
Second...it has nothing to do with PDA, I hate gays destroying public settings by having indiscriminate sex. I once walked into a bathroom in a park to see 2 men having sex. I am being told that this is my fault because I don't necessarily agree with the gay lifestyle.
Vniow...
You know...out of all of the arguments...that was the best. You actually made me pause for a moment.
You know...out of all of the arguments...that was the best. You actually made me pause for a moment.
Most of the time, when i can't get along with an anti-gay person, it's because they are passing judgement on me, not because of their beliefs. otherwise, i say to each his own. as long as we have civil rights (which we're now gaining), i'm glad that people are free to believe whatever they want. When they inflict their beliefs through a legal system, it becomes much harder to separate that particular belief from a person overall.
Like i said, that's my theory. i agree that promiscuity is not healthy, but there has to be some reason that some people are pathologically driven towards it.
then thank you, you are right. i would not go back in the closet, in many ways i'd rather die than submit to unleashed bigotry. many black people also compare the two groups of people, and from my perspective the parallels are obvious. gay people never had slavery but we have had oppression, and we have had basically lynchings, we were targeted and killed in the holocaust as well... and we've been on a great quest for civil rights, followed by civil acceptance. black people and gay people can't help how they're born, yet we are judged by it, and while we could possibly hide it when threatened, black people have never faced things like psychological "aversion" torture, people telling you that you should simply be white, your parents disowning you for being black. so they're not the same, but in a lot of ways are. carol mosley braun has some very good statements on the matter... she's a hell of a woman, that one.
doesn't making laws against something make it political?
pnw
Yeah, its not like you breeders will ever break anything when you're screwing. Kitchen tables notwithstanding.....
The horror! I once walked and saw people do all sorts of crazy things, like taking a piss! And they were straight!
The next person to refer to homosexuality as a lifestyle will get a small gift certificate for some earplugs because I swear I'll scream.
If we keep blacks out of this debate, I will quit referring to homosexuality as a lifestyle.
Deal? Nah...there goes some sensitivity training for me...I won't make that reference anymore...I hope PNW and crew can do the same for me.
Sorry.
if we keep blacks out of the debate, you can't post anymore... and we're all segregationalists...
that was a joke...
but yes, i can agree to leave the racial ties out of it.
pnw
You know whats incredibly ironic? dcoltonbrown is the one who's drawing out and causing the queers on these boards to jump in and feel the need to defend our "lifestyles."
Personally, I think theres nothing wrong with the life of a barista. I come home, no stress, free coffee, I make a bitchin' latte....
Oh, wait. Lifestyle like who I come home to?
Yeah, thats not for anyone to force me to defend. Its who I am, and if they don't like it they don't have to talk to me. I don't agree with Bill O'Reilly...I sell his book at work. Do I tell people who buy it why they shouldnt? Do I hide copies and declare him to be an abomination? No. Neither should anyone else.
Personally, I think theres nothing wrong with the life of a barista. I come home, no stress, free coffee, I make a bitchin' latte....
Oh, wait. Lifestyle like who I come home to?
Yeah, thats not for anyone to force me to defend. Its who I am, and if they don't like it they don't have to talk to me. I don't agree with Bill O'Reilly...I sell his book at work. Do I tell people who buy it why they shouldnt? Do I hide copies and declare him to be an abomination? No. Neither should anyone else.
That's not so much the gay "lifestyle" as it is the promiscuous or exhibitionist "lifestyle".
I once walked into a restroom with a man and a woman having sex in it. Didn't make me very happy. Should I condemn all hetros for the actions of a couple of them? Or is it possible that only SOME hetros engage in this behavior? From what I hear, most of them are pretty bland and boring in the sex department. But I have heard tell of some pretty wild hetro orgies, pornos, rape, abuse, incest, sex crimes against children, sex crimes against the elderly, sex crimes against the mentally ill or handicapped, etc etc etc. Should I go around saying all hetros are like that? Would you accept that argument?
dcoltonbrown,
As far as I know public sexual activity by gay people or straight people is illegal. I haven't heard or read anyone advocating the repeal of those laws. If you're so upset by the fact you walked in on a gay couple having sex in a public restroom do you have the same reaction to the many heterosexual acts that take place in public on a daily basis? Last time I walked through the 'red light' district in SF there was plenty going on between men and women. I'm unaware that any of this activity was blamed on you, but if you are outraged, please be consistent.
You also make the mistake, I believe, to assume that if someone uses the history of racism as an analogy that they are saying it is the same thing. It is one thing to take the lessons we have learned through the civil rights struggles of people who have been systematically discriminated against because of ethnicity or sex and compare those struggles to the need to eliminate discrimination against people on the basis of sexual orientation (a very useful exercise IMO), and an attempt to say the struggles are identical (a stupid and broad generalization IMO.) It seems to me you react to the former assuming people mean the latter.
This whole discussion is started by a young child being told to be ashamed that their parents were gay. Such blatant bigotry is to be condemned. I don't care if one dislikes gay people or views them as "perverts" (a word you throw around too easily IMO) it is not for society to impose a legacy of hate and inequality on that child. I hope that on that much we can agree.
By the way, we are, I assume from your comments, both straight. That is in order to let you know that it is not just the gay members of this board that disagree with your comments.
As far as I know public sexual activity by gay people or straight people is illegal. I haven't heard or read anyone advocating the repeal of those laws. If you're so upset by the fact you walked in on a gay couple having sex in a public restroom do you have the same reaction to the many heterosexual acts that take place in public on a daily basis? Last time I walked through the 'red light' district in SF there was plenty going on between men and women. I'm unaware that any of this activity was blamed on you, but if you are outraged, please be consistent.
You also make the mistake, I believe, to assume that if someone uses the history of racism as an analogy that they are saying it is the same thing. It is one thing to take the lessons we have learned through the civil rights struggles of people who have been systematically discriminated against because of ethnicity or sex and compare those struggles to the need to eliminate discrimination against people on the basis of sexual orientation (a very useful exercise IMO), and an attempt to say the struggles are identical (a stupid and broad generalization IMO.) It seems to me you react to the former assuming people mean the latter.
This whole discussion is started by a young child being told to be ashamed that their parents were gay. Such blatant bigotry is to be condemned. I don't care if one dislikes gay people or views them as "perverts" (a word you throw around too easily IMO) it is not for society to impose a legacy of hate and inequality on that child. I hope that on that much we can agree.
By the way, we are, I assume from your comments, both straight. That is in order to let you know that it is not just the gay members of this board that disagree with your comments.
Why not?
My School has a Night, its called Asia Night.
They promote their heritage and their lifestyle, but alas I do not say thats its wrong to promote who you are, or even who your parents are...
Fair enough, but alas you cannot raise children today without even mentioning homosexuality. Sexual perversion... ahh, I doubt that...
This isn't a Brand... This isn't a store that sells something...
Please don't compare Gay/Homosexual people with The Gap
It wasn't that he said you were a racist ... or anything like that is was that people have a choice...
Even if you wish to shield them from that choice.
Sugar Coated?
Ever hear of Matthew Wayne Shepard?
Or many other people... beaten to death?
Yeah okay.
Read his post over again...
He said they should burn
How is that defending them?
Question:
What the heck are you ON?
Where the hell are you getting the info that gay people have sex in a park with little boys?
What
Are
You
On ?
Okay... How about an article... Proof? A Picture... ANYTHING.
I have No
Idea what you are talking about.
[BTW, in case you wanted to pull out the 'you are gay, therefore you are biased'. I'm Not Gay.]
--MrMacMan
Phew I have been busier at work than I thought... It is sad when I read local news in MacRumors before I hear about it around town.
Here is the local article....
Now to put this in perspective... this school is not in Lafayette but in a suburb called Youngsville. (According to my wife... but she did grow up on that side of town.) Since Lafayette barely has 100K people Youngsville probably only has couple of thousand.
I am not saying that justifies anything, but the majority of kids that go to this school have parents with barely high school diplomas. Very ultra conservative when it comes to outside culture. (and trust me folks, they would consider me and outsider and I live 3 miles away.) If the kid said the word sex I am sure he would be punished just as severely. But keep in mind I am not condoning anything, and I think that the teacher is an idiot for not putting the word in context.
The person I feel sorriest for is James Easton. He is the Lafayette Parish Superintendent. I have heard him give a few speeches and I think he is a really good man. Unfortunately when he came in to the position, whoever it is that polices desegregation came down hard on the Lafayette School system. And the way that the kids were distributed to the different schools was by home address. Lafayette is a fairly segregated town when it comes to where you live. (Although that is slowly changing.) But James Easton, (Who is black for those of you keeping score.) Was taking heck from the Black parents. (they seemed most upset about the bussing.) Anyway, that was finally settled, and then now he has a teacher and principal do something stupid like this. The poor man can hardly catch a break!
Here is the local article....
Now to put this in perspective... this school is not in Lafayette but in a suburb called Youngsville. (According to my wife... but she did grow up on that side of town.) Since Lafayette barely has 100K people Youngsville probably only has couple of thousand.
I am not saying that justifies anything, but the majority of kids that go to this school have parents with barely high school diplomas. Very ultra conservative when it comes to outside culture. (and trust me folks, they would consider me and outsider and I live 3 miles away.) If the kid said the word sex I am sure he would be punished just as severely. But keep in mind I am not condoning anything, and I think that the teacher is an idiot for not putting the word in context.
The person I feel sorriest for is James Easton. He is the Lafayette Parish Superintendent. I have heard him give a few speeches and I think he is a really good man. Unfortunately when he came in to the position, whoever it is that polices desegregation came down hard on the Lafayette School system. And the way that the kids were distributed to the different schools was by home address. Lafayette is a fairly segregated town when it comes to where you live. (Although that is slowly changing.) But James Easton, (Who is black for those of you keeping score.) Was taking heck from the Black parents. (they seemed most upset about the bussing.) Anyway, that was finally settled, and then now he has a teacher and principal do something stupid like this. The poor man can hardly catch a break!
I am hesitant to respond to this since I think it is fine to remove the black and gay comparisons from this discussion. But, you've been good about trying to ask for back-ups to the points you disagree with, so I'll try to keep this factual as well.
That particular article was about 75 deaths from gay bashers in one borough of Sydney, Australia in one year.
For a more comprehensive view:
http://www.geocities.com/njgts_kyd/stats.html
it says over 1300 hate crimes based on sexual orientation were reported in 1999. Also, that 27% of gay and lesbian youth have been physically hurt by another student.
I won't say this is the same thing as what slaves experienced... that wasn't the point I was trying to make. Merely that a gay life to me hardly sounds sugar-coated -- being ostracized, physically harassed and beaten, and yes, killed and lynched. I don't like to make a hierarchy of victim-hood. Too many people experience hate crimes for being different. Any kind of different will do for some people.
Dros,
Thank you. And the point I was trying to make is that the comparison is not viable...I realize that gays do not have a sugar coated life and as I stated...it was a comparison to the atrocities that other races have experienced.
MR McMahan,
1st, even PNW agreed with me that there are some gays who troll in public parks to have indiscriminate sex...and I think that we both agreed that it is wrong and shameful. The same is true if the people were heterosexual. I would take the time to find the MANY articles on gay men screwing in the park...but you just aren't worth the time. Furthermore...you need to pay a little closer attention...there was an emphatic and between gays fornocating in the bathroom and NAMBLA perverted freaks. AND I have NEVER pulled out the your are gay and biased card. Unlike you guys...I believe that people are entitled to their opinions, no matter how much I may agree or disagree.
SAHYAY,
Where is the inconsistency. I haven't commented on heterosexual perversion and hetero deviance because that is NOT the discussion. Of course I think it is wrong for anyone to fornicate and sodomize in public places...
Edited by DCB due to improper content
This is the wrong argument for this issue. I don't really want to hear about other people's sex lives, whether they be gay or straight. Discrete displays of affection in public don't cause a problem (regardless of sexual orientation) but people should really just keep that kind of thing to themselves.
And had I been the teacher in the original story (remember? the one this tread started with?) I would have probably done the same ting or something similar. It has nothing to do with homosexuality, but kids just shouldn't be talking about their parents' sex lives in school. I wouldn't let my kids talk about my sex life with their friends, and I would expect a teacher to take action if they did.
We don't have to share the same moral values, but we should have some common considerations of what it is appropriate for children to discuss, and it is not appropriate for 7-year-olds to discuss their parents' sex lives.
And had I been the teacher in the original story (remember? the one this tread started with?) I would have probably done the same ting or something similar. It has nothing to do with homosexuality, but kids just shouldn't be talking about their parents' sex lives in school. I wouldn't let my kids talk about my sex life with their friends, and I would expect a teacher to take action if they did.
We don't have to share the same moral values, but we should have some common considerations of what it is appropriate for children to discuss, and it is not appropriate for 7-year-olds to discuss their parents' sex lives.
did the little kid say "my parents are girls and they have sex with each other"? no, just that they were both female and in a relationship. this implies sex no more than a straight person saying "this is my wife..." or a kid saying "my mom and dad"...
maybe *you* think of sex whenever someone brings up lesbians, but the rest of us don't.
pnw
When I read the article, it said the child said his parents were gay and that meant "a girl likes another girl". When you talk about taking action for discussing parent's sex lives, it sounds like you think the child was describing the parent's performing a sex act.
To me, the child was describing a relationship, not a sex act. Other children in the school say they have a mommy and a daddy, and the assumption is that the mommy and daddy made the child through some sex act. So we know more about the other children's parents sex lives than we do about the one child describing his parents as gay. Yet we don't punish a child for saying they have a mommy and a daddy because we understand in that context they are referring to the relationship and not the nasty rutting that must have taken place.
I think I understand the difference. To some people, the word "gay" brings up imagery of gay sex, public gay sex, promiscuous gay sex, and not a relationship. And so kids shouldn't be talking about it. But that isn't what this child was talking about, or what the other children were thinking about. The child was talking about being loved by two mommies that also love each other. I think it is always great to hear about loving relationships.
PNW,
You are a cool cat!
You know what...you are right in my case and you make a great point! That is the issue...when I think gay...I can only think sex. I know that is wrong, but I cannot see a loving relationship between two people of the same sex. Interesting, very interesting. When I think about it, I have never seen a loving gay couple...So, I guess that would be the underlying issue. When I think gay, I think sodomy and sexual perversion. Good observation. It doesn't necessarily change my opinion, but it does affect my thought process.
You are a cool cat!
You know what...you are right in my case and you make a great point! That is the issue...when I think gay...I can only think sex. I know that is wrong, but I cannot see a loving relationship between two people of the same sex. Interesting, very interesting. When I think about it, I have never seen a loving gay couple...So, I guess that would be the underlying issue. When I think gay, I think sodomy and sexual perversion. Good observation. It doesn't necessarily change my opinion, but it does affect my thought process.
Of course it is not the topic of discussion because you sought to bring up the example of your experience with a gay couple having sex in the park. Public sexual acts are not the subject of this thread, but you brought them in to bolster the idea that gay people are perverted. My point is that public sex takes place by people of both homosexual and heterosexual orientation and is proof of nothing in regards to the conduct of anyone other than the people who engage in such behavior.
You did not choose to respond to the rest of my post unless that is what you edited out. I would hope you would at least agree with the need to stop the bigotry directed at the child in the original story and his parents.
edit: I take it from you last post that a mod, not you, edited out the post in question.
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