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Brazil Fines Apple $19 Million for Continuing to Sell iPhones Without Charger

ilikewhey said:
never said it was apple's responsibility. a hardshell charger will naturally outlast a flexible cable that has more handling time than a charger, apple or not, thats a given.
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Here is what you did say:
and if i buy a new one, that defeats the purpose of apple environmental sensibility.
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What? That doesn’t even make sense. It seems like you tried to criticize for anything.
ilikewhey said:
the logic here that i'm having a problem with is apple taking in account that there are millions of chargers thats usba already in existence, yet only with 1 year of shipping usbc charger with the 11, apple only ships usbc cable after that.
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I’ve already given my opinion in this.
ilikewhey said:
you can argue all you want whether apple is doing this for sustainability, or free market therefore let the consumer buy the charger. at the end of the day, apple has to oblige by whatever jurisdiction they do business in, everything else is just pointless moral debate and nonsense.
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We’ll no. Apple will abide by local laws, but not being environmentally friendly is very objective with the degree being subjective.
 
I7guy said:
What? That doesn’t even make sense. It seems like you tried to criticize for anything.
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theres two points being argued here, apple's commitment to environmental, and the argument that everyone should have a charger if they upgrading from older gen iphones.
I7guy said:
We’ll no. Apple will abide by local laws, but not being environmentally friendly is very objective with the degree being subjective.
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great, at the end of the day, apple has to abide by what the brazilian gov't want.
 
ilikewhey said:
theres two points being argued here, apple's commitment to environmental, and the argument that everyone should have a charger if they upgrading from older gen iphones.
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Your misuse of a cable has nothing to do with apple’s commitment to the environment. If the Brazilian govt says the environment be damned then so be it.
ilikewhey said:
great, at the end of the day, apple has to abide by what the brazilian gov't want.
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Of course, there is an appeal going and apple will follow whatever the outcome is.
 
I7guy said:
Your misuse of a cable has nothing to do with apple’s commitment to the environment. If the Brazilian govt says the environment be damned then so be it.

Of course, there is an appeal going and apple will follow whatever the outcome is.
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lol sure, gladly to ignore the fact that charger outlast cables by a good 5-10 years on avg, the wear and tear on a cable is a lot more than a charger but sure it's the user thats the problem.
 
ilikewhey said:
lol sure, gladly to ignore the fact that charger outlast cables by a good 5-10 years on avg, the wear and tear on a cable is a lot more than a charger but sure it's the user thats the problem.
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Lol, There are always manufactured defects. Anecdotally since this is the conversation I have my lightning cable in good working order from my 5s in 2013. But you’re welcome to refute that with objectivity evidence that shows a lightning cable has an absolute life of x years.
 
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contacos said:
Personally I don’t give two F what they do. Simply stated that if it was really about the environment, they technically shouldn’t include either anymore.
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If they really cared they would stop suing suppliers for recycling devices. It's all about driving more sales.

This charger stunt is anything other than Apple squeezing out a bit of extra margin and their latest attempt at greenwashing
 
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darngooddesign said:
I never said Apple should include a charger in the box, only that Apple should provide a charger at the time of purchase. Chargers can be shipped separately and more efficiently in minimal, non-retail packaging. People who don't ask for a charger wont get one or be charged for one.
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You were the one hung up on focusing on the Brazilian law and if that law eventually has Apple providing a charger with phones, it can also cause Apple to raise prices accordingly across the board to cover the cost and therefore cause many customers to have to pay for something they don't need. That's not good for customers.



darngooddesign said:
Remember all that money Apple is saving globally by not including chargers, they can easily absorb the costs of providing chargers to Brazilian customers who need one.
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Some or all of that money Apple is saving may already be passed onto customers and factored into pricing. Again, if Apple is required to provide chargers according to Brazilian law, they may have to raise prices and force many customers to pay for something they don't need. That's not good for customers.
 
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Solomani said:
Oddly enough, a strong US dollar is not exactly great for the USA either, since it greatly dampens the financial health of American multinationals like Apple, especially US companies that export goods and services to other countries.
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Yes, it can definitely hurt multinationals like Apple in various overseas markets.
 
webkit said:
You were the one hung up on focusing on the Brazilian law and if that law eventually has Apple providing a charger with phones, it can also cause Apple to raise prices accordingly across the board to cover the cost and therefore cause many customers to have to pay for something they don't need. That's not good for customers.
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I mean... its article about Brazilian law.

Im hung up on Apple providing chargers to those who need them as Brazilian law requires, not that the chargers have to be in the same box as the phone.
webkit said:
Some or all of that money Apple is saving may already be passed onto customers and factored into pricing. Again, if Apple is required to provide chargers according to Brazilian law, they may have to raise prices and force many customers to pay for something they don't need. That's not good for customers.
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Sure that must be why the iPhones decreased in price once they started excluding the charger. /s
 
GizmoDVD said:
Apple should include them and raise the price $100 or whatever money they use in Brazil. Problem solved!
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They could raise prices but that would hurt sales and force many customers to pay for something they don't need. It can also mean unnecessarily and wastefully including charges which defeats the purpose of excluding them for "environmental" reasons.
 
webkit said:
They could raise prices but that would hurt sales and force many customers to pay for something they don't need. It can also mean unnecessarily and wastefully including charges which defeats the purpose of excluding them for "environmental" reasons.
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They don't have to be included in the box.
 
darngooddesign said:
Sure that must be why the iPhones decreased in price once they started excluding the charger. /s
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The starting price of the iPhone 14 in Brazil is $7,599 BRL (less with cash discount) which is LOWER than the starting price of the iPhone 12 was.

If Apple still included chargers, they may very well have had to increase prices instead of keeping them the same or lowering them. If Apple has to start providing chargers in the future according to Brazilian law, they may very well have to increase prices and force some customers to pay for something whether they want/need it or not. That wouldn't be good for customers.



darngooddesign said:
They don't have to be included in the box.
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They have to be provided to customers and that's where the added cost can come in and force customers to have to pay for something whether they want/need it or not. That wouldn't be good for customers.
 
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webkit said:
The starting price of the iPhone 14 in Brazil is $7,599 BRL (less with cash discount) which is LOWER than the starting price of the iPhone 12 was.

If Apple still included chargers, they may very well have had to increase prices instead of keeping them the same or lowering them. If Apple has to start providing chargers in the future according to Brazilian law, they may very well have to increase prices and force some customers to pay for something whether they want/need it or not. That wouldn't be good for customers.
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Well the iPhone 11 included the charger and it was $R 5000.
So look at all those savings
webkit said:
They have to be provided to customers and that's where the added cost can come in and force customers to have to pay for something whether they want/need it or not. That wouldn't be good for customers.
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They have to be available to customers who need/want them; they do not need to be forced upon people who don't.

But none of that matters. Brazilian law is clear and Apple is clearly violating it.
 
I7guy said:
Until the appeal is finished they aren’t violating the law; they’re appealing.
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Apple is not providing chargers.

The law says chargers much be priovided.

Brazilian courts said that chargers must be provided.

Apple is violating the law that says charger must be provided.

Apple has been violating the law that says chargers must be provided for at least one year.

Apple is appealing to avoid being punished for violating the law that says chargers must be provided.
 
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darngooddesign said:
Apple is not providing chargers.

The law says chargers much be priovided.

Brazilian courts said that chargers must be provided.

Apple is violating the law that says charger must be provided.

Apple has been violating the law that says chargers must be provided for at least one year.

Apple is appealing to avoid being punished for violating the law that says chargers must be provided.
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They include a cable in the box which CHARGES the phone. They are also all QI, which can CHARGE.

It's the stupid wall wart. No one needs more wall warts.

I hope apple raises the prices and the Brazil people complain
 
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GizmoDVD said:
They include a cable in the box which CHARGES the phone. They are also all QI, which can CHARGE.

It's the stupid wall wart. No one needs more wall warts.

I hope apple raises the prices and the Brazil people complain
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The law says wall warts must be provided for free.

Apple is not providing them.

Apple is violating Brazilian law. Whether any of us thinks it's good or bad is irrelevant.
 
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darngooddesign said:
Apple is not providing chargers.

The law says chargers much be priovided.

Brazilian courts said that chargers must be provided.

Apple is violating the law that says charger must be provided.

Apple has been violating the law that says chargers must be provided for at least one year.

Apple is appealing to avoid being punished for violating the law that says chargers must be provided.
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Apple is appealing. That’s the way appeals work. Once it’s settled, apple will follow the law.
 
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