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ethernet76 said:
...
I also don't remember anyone doing word processing on a computer before Windows 95. Unless you had a Mac(Clarisworks rules).

I remember word processing being done on Tandy-Radio Shack models (TRS-80 Model I, Model II (their "business" computer), and Model III) back in late 70's and early 80's. Don't remember the application names but I know this was routine back then. I'm pretty sure people were doing word processing on Apple II models at about the same time.
 
wow, you are so wrong

davetrow1997 said:
I can't stand it anymore. Will the individuals who are spelling LOSE with two Os please stop. It's killing me. Oh the humanity.

Loose (verb) to release, to let go, i.e. "let loose"
(adjective) not tight

LOSE is the proper spelling. Like, I'm going to LOSE my mind if people keep spelling it "loose." I will not "loose" my mind.

Loose is not a verb, at least not in your example. not even close. More of an adverb. So while I agree with what you are saying, if you are going to criticize people's spelling and grammar, you might want to avoid giving a poor example.
 
kman12681 said:
I am waiting for the rev b. PM G5's not because of faster processors or lower prices. I can afford a G5 now and a dual 1.8 would be plenty fast for what I am going to do - Video editing and Audio recording. However, the reason I am waiting is for all the problems to be corrected - namely the scuzzy and digidesign problems. Do you realize that you can't currently use Pro-tools mix, or digi-001 with the G5. To me, that is a huge problem. It seems like everyone is concerned about speed and money - but does anyone else have the concern that I do?

As far as the "Digi 001" goes, unless Apple changes the voltage signaling on their upcoming revision of the Power Mac, you NEVER will be able to use a Digi 001 with a G5. And Digidesign will not be re-designing the Digi 001 to work in a G5 because they've discontinued it.

I currently have a Digi 001......so I understand your plight. Am running it with a Dual 1.0 Ghz Quicksilver G4. It would seem that the cheapest way to run ProTools on a G5 is by getting the "Digi 002" Rack ($1,200).

As far as the ProTools Mix cards go.......don't know if Digidesign's gonna re-design them to work in a G5 or not. My guess is not.
 
I can see where this is going but...

Very loosely (adverb), our problem here (without losing (present participle) the thread completely) is that once you let this kind of dialogue loose (out of the bag as it were) it tends to unleash much loose (adjectival phrase) talk with which one can lose (conditional verb) the sense entirely.

The sense having been lost (perfect passive) - had we but loosened (pluperfect subjunctive) the grammatical shackles earlier - we might as well give up any attempt to find that which is lost and will have been lost (future perfect passive) in the first place.

Interestingly enough when learning ancient greek, ??? (luw, sorry tried to do greek letters - lamda, upsilon, omega) [to loose or set free] is the first verb you learn.
 
i guess it makes sense that there wont be any updates to the powermac g5's... with steve promising the dual 3's by the end of summer only those who absolutely couldnt wait would have bought the Rev. B assuming the dual 3's wouldve been Rev. C and would be out by the end of summer as per steves statement... i for one was full on ready to wait for the dual 3's... why buy something you "know" will be replaced in a somewhat timely fashion... its not as if the dual 2's have gotten any slower over time... just older... i can personally wait it out a few more months and i think a lot of others share my philosophy... apple got the early adoptors in on the Rev. A's... i think the Rev. B's being dual 3's are going to be a smashing success once they do launch...

to the poster talking about the digi001... i had the same concerns... but quite frankly i am sick of digidesign anyhow... my digi is just about to finish up on ebay... im taking a huge loss... but ive decided to switch over to logic... ive got a MOTU 828mkII already which kicks digi001's ass... as soon as the auction is over ill pick up logic pro six... you may want to think about that as an option...
 
I know Pro-tools software too well to make the jump to Logic. I think that pro-tools is the best program out there in terms of interface and quality and etc. not saying that I can't learn new software, and I know that Logic is good as well, but it would take 3+ years for me to catch up with my pro-tools experience, and since a lot of work is editing and sound design and etc (i.e. work that involves intimate working knowledge of the software) that's a lot of money that I'd lose by not being able to do the same work since i don't know the software while i'm trying to make the switch to logic. Seems like it kind of bites to be a Pro-tools Mac user at the moment. Feels like we're getting screwed over on account of Apple and Digidesign's problems between themselves.

-keith
 
MadMan said:
Don't forget that IBM has a March 31st event scheduled, giving insight into their new CPU's. While they will probably focus on the upcoming POWER5, they may also provide some details on the 9xx series chip, which they also use in their own blade servers.

Either way, the picture MAY be a bit clearer on the CPU front after the event.
(see this thread https://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/03/20040318102708.shtml )

Also boys and girls let's not forget that Apple is planning some sort of special event at NAB 2004...

read old MacRumors post

At any rate...I just don't understand the apparent anger over the imagined infrequency of updates to Apple's computer line. Apple has never and I suspect will never assume the sort of madcap update schedule that Intel and the Winblows folks love to follow. Apple has decided they would rather do it right than do it often and half-baked. Frankly, I'm happier that they update their software more frequently than they do their hardware. Let's be honest here, how many of us will really upgrade our hardware every 6 months? And if you can afford to do so, and were that much of a "Gotta have the latest and greatest hardware now Now NOWWWWW..." - then you would have already purchased a new G5 when they first came out.

Also, anyone who is going to sit here and tell the rest of us that their Dual 2 GHz G5 just isn't fast enough anymore...is dillusional. I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement but there is always room for improvement. It's the nature of computers. Look, if you need G5 power now, then go ahead and buy a G5 now. Even if you wait for the updated PowerMacs they will also be "too slow" 3-6 months after their intro. You will be twirling in this endless vortex for the rest of time. So just don't get caught up in that game. If a new dual 2.0 or 1.8 G5 will take your work or computing experience to a whole new level then go ahead and buy it. You will not be dissapointed. If you can afford to wait...then wait. No matter what we do, let's leave the Apple-bashing and the trolling at home because even if they don't intro 3GHz G5s until WWDC...they've still beaten their predictions.

Rustus
 
I've got to buy before I graduate in May, so I'm waiting for NAB. Since I'm going to use it for video anyways, if there is a big announcement at NAB I could get that also. Even if there isn't a big release at NAB, I'm going to have to buy after that.

I guess my real problem with buying a rev A now is that I'm paying the same price now that others paid in September '03.

W

Rustus Maximus said:
Also boys and girls let's not forget that Apple is planning some sort of special event at NAB 2004...

read old MacRumors post

At any rate...I just don't understand the apparent anger over the imagined infrequency of updates to Apple's computer line. Apple has never and I suspect will never assume the sort of madcap update schedule that Intel and the Winblows folks love to follow. Apple has decided they would rather do it right than do it often and half-baked. Frankly, I'm happier that they update their software more frequently than they do their hardware. Let's be honest here, how many of us will really upgrade our hardware every 6 months? And if you can afford to do so, and were that much of a "Gotta have the latest and greatest hardware now Now NOWWWWW..." - then you would have already purchased a new G5 when they first came out.

Also, anyone who is going to sit here and tell the rest of us that their Dual 2 GHz G5 just isn't fast enough anymore...is dillusional. I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement but there is always room for improvement. It's the nature of computers. Look, if you need G5 power now, then go ahead and buy a G5 now. Even if you wait for the updated PowerMacs they will also be "too slow" 3-6 months after their intro. You will be twirling in this endless vortex for the rest of time. So just don't get caught up in that game. If a new dual 2.0 or 1.8 G5 will take your work or computing experience to a whole new level then go ahead and buy it. You will not be dissapointed. If you can afford to wait...then wait. No matter what we do, let's leave the Apple-bashing and the trolling at home because even if they don't intro 3GHz G5s until WWDC...they've still beaten their predictions.

Rustus
 
Promo Doesn't Indicate New Products at WWDC

The promo simply ends on the end of the 3rd Fiscal Quarter. In addition, it is very broad in terms of the promo for powermacs. I can't explain it all, but check the article out at Apple Insider if you need further proof.

Rev B, here I come. (As long as you are released soon)
 
Mr_Ed @ Post 301 said:
I remember word processing being done on Tandy-Radio Shack models (TRS-80 Model I, Model II (their "business" computer), and Model III) back in late 70's and early 80's. Don't remember the application names but I know this was routine back then. I'm pretty sure people were doing word processing on Apple II models at about the same time.
While in law school during the early 1970s, I saw a dual cassette tape (for memory) Redactor dedicated word processor that used an IBM Selectric to type boilerplate (master) derived from one tape, and then add variables (merge) from the other tape.

After law school, I checked with IBM (I used a Selectric to do papers in school) to see what they had in a "memory typewriter". IBM did have a Selectric with a memory chip and dial that was limited to about 20 pages of boilerplate - no merge capability. Too much for too little.

SAVIN corporation (known for copiers) made a Wordmaster memory cassette deck ($6000) that attached to an IBM Selectric ($1,000) for input and printing. I immediately bought one and it worked great typing 130 words per minute, stopping at the insertion point for a variable, which I typed IN, then continued typing page after page at max speed for an IBM Selectric. With a removable cassette (unlike IBM's fixed internal memory system) we could (and did) have as many computer quality data cassettes (looked just like audio cassettes) as we wanted. (Incorporation, Wills, Trusts, Divorce, standard Civil pleadings, Probates, etc.)

Then in mid to late 70s and early 80s, competition among word processors like the $25,000 room filling Viadec using 8" floppies became intense. God I love when corporations compete for our money.

Burroughs bought out Redactor corporation (or at least its computer line from them), and sold a dedicated word processor with a large full letter size screen (portrait, not landscape) with dual floppy disk drives (RAM on a disc instead of linear on tape - HUGE time-saving improvement), for about $13,000. They gave me and another attorney a $3,000 discount if we would turn in a Redactor I so they could literally junk it at the city dump - they did not want to service them even for a $500 per year service contract. My buddy had one, and so we purchased a Redactor II (R-2) (which we promptly renamed R2-D2, of StarWars fame) for a mere $10,000. It used a Qume daisy wheel printer which had blinding speed that blew away the IBM Selectric, and we could attach different wheels for different fonts and sizes ranging from 10 pica to 12 elite to 15 fine print (great for attorneys ;)), Courier, Letter Gothic, and even "proportional spacing" Times (OMG!) print. It was almost like owning a print shop and having a sophisticated type composer machine. We could do anything...except graphics.

Several years later, Burroughs (soon to become UNISYS) came back to us with an updated offer on their new intelligent terminals for a mainframe computer called a B26, which had the newly released Intel 286 chip. Instead of one large, dedicated piece of equipment, it was at least modular, so in theory, we could replace parts of it. It too had a word processor program with some computational skills, especially when used with a 256 x 256 (row, column) spreadsheet developed by some MIT professors (I think) called Multiplan. Burroughs' charged $400 for their OS. Oh my goodness this was great, a computer that could really "think" and COMPUTE.

After a few years, the 286 chip gave way to a 386 chip which had much greater capability, larger hard drives (40 MB), so I looked into upgrading my modular computer. This time, I was the one who went to Burroughs, now UNISYS, instead of the other way around.

UNISYS/Burroughs quoted me $16,000 (including printer and WYSIWYG monochrome screen)...and WHAT, for a mere "UPGRADE"?

So I complained to the salesman on the phone with me long distance from Virginia (I was in AZ) about that ugly price and the lack of choice (maybe 8) fonts. He whispered "why don't you get an Apple Macintosh, Adobe has all the fonts for the Mac you could ever want at a very reasonable price, and the screen is not only WYSIWYG but it's in full color with images." I asked how much it would cost, he didn't know, but said he thought I could get in for less than a 3rd of what UNISYS was asking. Wow! under $5,000

So, in late 1991 I went to a PC/Apple dealer who showed me a MacLC with OS 6 (7 was just coming out). If I bought a CPU + MONITOR, Apple was giving a $350 rebate (sound familiar folks?) towards the purchase of an Apple LaserWriter printer (which I needed anyway; 300 dpi) making its cost only $100. I was in heaven for less than $3,000, including software and an upgrade video RAM chip (whatever the hell that was ;), I really had no clue...as of yet).

It wasn't a year before I got tired of doing word processing and working with spread sheets on the tiny 10.5" viewable screen, and paid NEC nearly $1,000 for a 16" screen (15" viewable) which I still have and it works great - thanks NEC. I literally cried when it arrived and I plugged it in, I was so happy.

All along this path I'd looked at IBM computers, laptops and products, tried MS DOS (sucked big time) and even MS Windows. Never competitive with Apple's OS 6 through OS X, never!

My investment in Apple software (Adobe, Apple, Macromedia, MS Office, and others) grew to what it is today, along with familiarity of user friendly things Macintosh.

Frankly, there is no way in hell that i would ever switch from Mac to a PC. If Apple went out of business tomorrow, I'd be happy with what I have today even if stuck in a 2004 Time Capsule on a Dual 1GHz G4, which is plenty fast for all the things I have learned to do.

And some guys bitch and moan about not being able to wait until the next little speed bump so they can shave a few seconds off of a render? While I understand the significance in saving TIME, you are spoiled rotten.

If you have any real perception of the value of time, money and progress, you could easily be patient for a few more weeks or months. I don't think very many people under 50 really appreciate the growth of computers. Shucks, in high school we used a slide rule to compute mathematical formulas because there was no such thing as a digital calculator. Mechanical calculators with 100 keys took forever to do division, while addition, subtraction and multiplication were rather straightforward.

In the 1960's my father spent 1/4th the price of a new Chevrolet on an Olivetti 10 key mechanical calculator and he was in heaven because of what it could do for his business presentations to clients. Dad retired (then died) before I could show him how a computer spreadsheet would have revolutionized (and eventually did for others) his daily computational chores.

Friends, we live in marvelous times. Ignore what PCs are doing, or how many days until the next Mac release. Enjoy life and your family. :p

Put computers into proper perspective and you will live longer :eek: and be much happier. ;)
Stress kills. :mad: believe it! :(

Macs rule!
:cool:
 
grouse said:
Very loosely (adverb), our problem here (without losing (present participle) the thread completely) is that once you let this kind of dialogue loose (out of the bag as it were) it tends to unleash much loose (adjectival phrase) talk with which one can lose (conditional verb) the sense entirely.

The sense having been lost (perfect passive) - had we but loosened (pluperfect subjunctive) the grammatical shackles earlier - we might as well give up any attempt to find that which is lost and will have been lost (future perfect passive) in the first place.

Interestingly enough when learning ancient greek, ??? (luw, sorry tried to do greek letters - lamda, upsilon, omega) [to loose or set free] is the first verb you learn.



with which one can lose (conditional verb)
Isn't that a modal?


I do agree though, that "Loose/Lose" thing has been grating on my nerves for a while now. We must be more tolerant of the grammatically challenged and not allow our pre-update angst to influence our netiquette.

Gimme a Rev B Powermac now AAAaaaaAAArrRrGH!
 
ethernet76 said:
Oregon trail was not an educational tool, no matter how fun the green and black killing of buffalo was.)
Oh man I killed so many buffalo. The squirrels were hard though, or was it the rabbits...I can't remember.
 
g30ffr3y said:
i guess it makes sense that there wont be any updates to the powermac g5's... with steve promising the dual 3's by the end of summer only those who absolutely couldnt wait would have bought the Rev. B assuming the dual 3's would've been Rev. C and would be out by the end of summer as per steves statement... i for one was full on ready to wait for the dual 3's... why buy something you "know" will be replaced in a somewhat timely fashion... its not as if the dual 2's have gotten any slower over time... just older... i can personally wait it out a few more months and i think a lot of others share my philosophy... apple got the early adopters in on the Rev. A's... i think the Rev. B's being dual 3's are going to be a smashing success once they do launch... .

I a little confused by your use of the Rev. B and Rev. C above. When you mention the Rev. B 3.0 at the end, I understand.

Has anybody heard a rumor about the G6 next year? I believe it was from Think Secret. Would imagine that we will have more of an idea after the IBM talk on the 31st.
 
Lemme Hear an Amen!

You got it, brother!

I am sitting in my attic office, surrounded by wonders of technology. On my left is the Mac's greatest workhorse, an SE/30. Beside it is a NeXT Cube. Two incredible examples of the technological art, both working as well today as they did when they rolled off the assembly line. Both are as obsolete as buggy whips. The unwashed masses think they are worthless.

On my right is a Dual 2GHz G5. An incredible example of the technological art. In a few short years, it too will be considered worthless.

One floor below me (sitting in front of an Alienware box slaying pixels) is the only thing in this house that grows more valuable with every passing year. My unindicted co-conspirator, the bright and shining center of my universe, who endulges my passion for evanescent toys.

I'm a damned lucky guy.


MacRAND said:
Friends, we live in marvelous times. Ignore what PCs are doing, or how many days until the next Mac release. Enjoy life and your family. :p

Put computers into proper perspective and you will live longer :eek: and be much happier. ;)
Stress kills. :mad: believe it! :(

Macs rule!
:cool:
 
Here we go again...

So March comes to a close and another month passes without Apple doing much of anything except raking in money on digital music. Clearly, right now, this is where Apple is making it's money. The iPods and iTMS are what the company is focusing on right now. So we are just going to have to accept that any desktop users (without iPods) are second class citizens right now for Apple and not where the money is.

I know Apple has been historical slow to release new models, but even for Apple the current drought is ridiculous. The iBook is the only thing that has had a significant update in over six months. Look at the "Buyer's Guide" which MacRumors is so kind to provide. Nearly everything thing is at or past its average time between updates. Considering, the last PowerMac update was changing the 1.8 GHz's from singles to dauls, the last iMac upate was sticking a 20" monitor on the same base, and the last eMac update so just a price drop, the current models are 10 months, 7 months and 11 months old respectively. Even for Apple that is pathetic.

I don't think it is current G5 users who are complaining about the lack of updates (after all they still have the cream of the crop Mac's), but those of us who would like to buy a new Mac a torn. In the computing world, buying a 10 month old computer for the same price as it was at introduction is just not normal.

Maybe this is the future for Apple's desktop business: yearly updates of PowerMacs, etc. Let's face it, as fast as the G5 is, as stable as OS X is, as great a value as iLife may be, this is not where Apple is making it's $$ right now. So why would the be spending their time and money developing them. All Steve talked about was dominating market share in the MP3 player market. Something they said they had no interest in the desktop market.

For those people who think that the iPod and iTMS are going to create switchers, do you real think people are going to buy an older, slower Mac for more money just because it matches their iPod better when iPod for Windows work exactly the same?
 
Except...

The iTMS doesn't make much money.
The iPod will be making some, but would obviously make more if they could keep up with demand.
The main point of iTMS is to sell iPods, just like iT for windows.
Both iT and the iPod are doing a wonderful job of raising Apples profile however, and free advertising is great (let alone adverts that generate cash on their own).
Despite what emphasis Apple places on it at various times, switchers are always gonna be a top priority issue, and they are going to need some more incentive soon.
I'm expecting something big.

If Apple is prioritising anything other than PMs/PBs, its the Xserves and all the potential supercomputer buyers. There's money there.
 
PRØBE said:
grouse said:
Very loosely (adverb), our problem here (without losing (present participle) the thread completely) is that once you let this kind of dialogue loose (out of the bag as it were) it tends to unleash much loose (adjectival phrase) talk with which one can lose (conditional verb) the sense entirely.

The sense having been lost (perfect passive) - had we but loosened (pluperfect subjunctive) the grammatical shackles earlier - we might as well give up any attempt to find that which is lost and will have been lost (future perfect passive) in the first place.

Interestingly enough when learning ancient greek, ??? (luw, sorry tried to do greek letters - lamda, upsilon, omega) [to loose or set free] is the first verb you learn.



with which one can lose (conditional verb)
Isn't that a modal?


I do agree though, that "Loose/Lose" thing has been grating on my nerves for a while now. We must be more tolerant of the grammatically challenged and not allow our pre-update angst to influence our netiquette.

Gimme a Rev B Powermac now AAAaaaaAAArrRrGH!

You grammar people are such nit-picky loosers. Losen up!

:)
 
pjkelnhofer said:
So March comes to a close and another month passes without Apple doing much of anything except raking in money on digital music. Clearly, right now, this is where Apple is making it's money. The iPods and iTMS are what the company is focusing on right now. So we are just going to have to accept that any desktop users (without iPods) are second class citizens right now for Apple and not where the money is.

I know Apple has been historical slow to release new models, but even for Apple the current drought is ridiculous. The iBook is the only thing that has had a significant update in over six months. Look at the "Buyer's Guide" which MacRumors is so kind to provide. Nearly everything thing is at or past its average time between updates. Considering, the last PowerMac update was changing the 1.8 GHz's from singles to dauls, the last iMac upate was sticking a 20" monitor on the same base, and the last eMac update so just a price drop, the current models are 10 months, 7 months and 11 months old respectively. Even for Apple that is pathetic.

I don't think it is current G5 users who are complaining about the lack of updates (after all they still have the cream of the crop Mac's), but those of us who would like to buy a new Mac a torn. In the computing world, buying a 10 month old computer for the same price as it was at introduction is just not normal.

Maybe this is the future for Apple's desktop business: yearly updates of PowerMacs, etc. Let's face it, as fast as the G5 is, as stable as OS X is, as great a value as iLife may be, this is not where Apple is making it's $$ right now. So why would the be spending their time and money developing them. All Steve talked about was dominating market share in the MP3 player market. Something they said they had no interest in the desktop market.

For those people who think that the iPod and iTMS are going to create switchers, do you real think people are going to buy an older, slower Mac for more money just because it matches their iPod better when iPod for Windows work exactly the same?

Has it ever been like this before at Apple's?
 
Little Endian said:
Basically it's 3Ghz or nothing with the next update or Steve Jobs would be making the fool out of himself by being 6 months too maybe even a year off of his promise and we all Know Steve usually never makes such bold statements so here's hoping for 3Ghz with the next update.

Had to comment on this. Steve said that they would be at 3Ghz within a year, true. However, though most people would see him as a fool or a liar or whatever, let's just suppose that the problem lies with IBM or another vendor that, say, PROMISED Steve that they would have everything in place for a 3GHz chip/machine in a year. It's a shame that although the problem may have nothing to do with Apple, many will blame Steve for any non-delivery or delay's on the 3GHz. Something to ponder. :rolleyes:
 
jnasato said:
Yah, un update across the whole line would be great and it seems like one of the few things that will satisfy everyone.

That would satisfy everyone for a few days or weeks perhaps, but then everyone would start wondering about why something else isn't immediately visible on the horizon. If they didn't, the rumor sites would get VERY dull. :D
 
Stella said:
It seems to me that if apple update the G5 now, then there won't be a too large gap until the 3Ghz machines come out in summer.

I think its really disappointing to think that there will be no G5 PM update for 12 months. I thought IBM will be a new era for Apple.

Food for thought ...

Did Moto ever give us a 50% speed increase in a one year period?

Did Moto ever make us wait a year for an upgrade to something?

So far, I'd say Rev A has been a HUGE success compared to ANYTHING Moto ever gave us. Waiting a year for Rev B and a 50% increase, with a high probablity of new cooling, new RAM, new Video, etc is, by far, better than anything Moto EVER gave us.
 
carletonmusic said:
What if, and just if - there will be new displays and powermacs next week. And, this is designed as an extra incentive for people to spend ridiculous cash - all for the purpose of getting more Apples in the market. Take a small $ hit, widen the userbase...

Not Apple's style. If it was, they could sell their products at a lower price for a while to increase market share and customer loyalty, then work their way back up. Apple has 6 Billion in cash on hand and there IS a reason for that. :D
 
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