Buy now rMBP? or wait for Haswell?

[WhiteIphone5]

I'm in a bit of a pickle here. Currently I am in need of a mac to start up some IOS app development. I am a computer science major, so I will be programming, I've never even owned a mac before. However, I do feel I want a 15 inch retina macbook pro due to the availability of more space on the screen as well as the light and thin form factor. I'm not too pressed for the screen resolution except for the fat that it gives me and I like the other benefits the model presents. The thing I'm waiting on though is June possible update. My birthday is in June so it would be easier to buy as well, but I was mainly wondering if its worth waiting at all for Haswell, whether to get it with Haswell or just get the i7 at that time when the price drops because of the addition of haswell. Also quick side note, does anyone think 16gb of ram is worth it? If I'm gonna buy a mac since it's expensive as all hell I'm gonna want it to last me a good 4-5 years and I take very good care of my computers. Nonetheless, would it be wise to up to 16gb of RAM so im future proof or is it not even worth it? Thanks

I was exactly in the same situation. Same major too!
I'd wait for haswell if possible, if not its still a beast machine. Haswell would probably bring a 5-10% increase. Definetly 16GB ram if you see yourself working with tons of programs.
I scored a 2.6 15" 16Gb ram for $1900. I'm one happy rMBP owner sh

 

[Mr MM]

I'm waiting for Skylake!

While enjoying the hell out of Ivy Bridge and my computer that utilizes it quite handily, of course.

and Im for either broadwell or skylake, my SB is going to hold till them

 

[bbishop93]

I was exactly in the same situation. Same major too!
I'd wait for haswell if possible, if not its still a beast machine. Haswell would probably bring a 5-10% increase. Definetly 16GB ram if you see yourself working with tons of programs.
I scored a 2.6 15" 16Gb ram for $1900. I'm one happy rMBP owner sh

Yeah i think im just gonna buy now and wait for broadwell or the next one after that down the road 10% boost isnt much and yeah it is a beast. I think im gonna finance one from bestbuy for 2600, no interest, ill put like 1600 down and pay off the rest monthly and its 2013 model, 2.7ghz, 16gb ram, 512ssd. That should last me a good long while and ive used those specs before on other comps its blazing fast so I wont be too jealous not having haswell.

 

[WhiteIphone5]

Yeah i think im just gonna buy now and wait for broadwell or the next one after that down the road 10% boost isnt much and yeah it is a beast. I think im gonna finance one from bestbuy for 2600, no interest, ill put like 1600 down and pay off the rest monthly and its 2013 model, 2.7ghz, 16gb ram, 512ssd. That should last me a good long while and ive used those specs before on other comps its blazing fast so I wont be too jealous not having haswell.

you should look on craig or ebay bro.
i got a 2.6 Ghz i7 16GB RAM 3 year apple care 15" Retina Macbook Pro
for 1900 ( NEW) still sealed, and i still seem some of them on my local craig but not with that config, but hey i saved about 900 bucks

 

[bbishop93]

you should look on craig or ebay bro.
i got a 2.6 Ghz i7 16GB RAM 3 year apple care 15" Retina Macbook Pro
for 1900 ( NEW) still sealed, and i still seem some of them on my local craig but not with that config, but hey i saved about 900 bucks

I tried the only ones lower than that on ebay are for lower specs or theyre used, none new. Idk i guess there's just not a lot of people selling atm and I looked on craigslist as well but its too sketchy and there's nothing anyway. And the ones on ebay and craigslist dont even throw in an applecare at their price so its not worth it. Plus then I'd have to pay the full 2k-ish up front which I dont have atm because Im in school but in june at some point I'll have had about 6 weeks of my internship in and thats a boat load of money more than enough to buy a brand new one, thats why I wanted to just finance it so I could get it now and then pay it all off by summer's end.

 

[adjeff8]

I got an appointment with Intel guys tomorrow for Haswell presentation under NDA of course. But I can tell there are no mobile Haswell for june. Apple never release a new MacBook Air or Pro during Q3. It will be a late 2013 so october at best. Perhaps I will know more about mobile Hadswell soon.

Never? What about last June?

 

[toypadlock]

oh ffs. macbooks use the desktop processors. the mobile ones are for ultrabooks and stuff like that.

 

[maflynn]

oh ffs. macbooks use the desktop processors. the mobile ones are for ultrabooks and stuff like that.

Can you clarify that statement? Are you stating the MBPs use desktop processors and MBA uses the mobile processors?

I don't think that's correct, Apple uses them mobile processors in the MBP and the MBA uses their ulta low voltage processors in the MBA

 

[StintheBeast]

I'm in a bit of a pickle here. Currently I am in need of a mac to start up some IOS app development. I am a computer science major, so I will be programming, I've never even owned a mac before. However, I do feel I want a 15 inch retina macbook pro due to the availability of more space on the screen as well as the light and thin form factor. I'm not too pressed for the screen resolution except for the fat that it gives me and I like the other benefits the model presents. The thing I'm waiting on though is June possible update. My birthday is in June so it would be easier to buy as well, but I was mainly wondering if its worth waiting at all for Haswell, whether to get it with Haswell or just get the i7 at that time when the price drops because of the addition of haswell. Also quick side note, does anyone think 16gb of ram is worth it? If I'm gonna buy a mac since it's expensive as all hell I'm gonna want it to last me a good 4-5 years and I take very good care of my computers. Nonetheless, would it be wise to up to 16gb of RAM so im future proof or is it not even worth it? Thanks

Updates are coming soon. Just wait until the updated MacBooks come out and you'll get better specs for the same or a cheaper price. It's worth the wait, don't buy refurbished. Buy a new one whenever they come out and it'll last you a long time, like possibly 7 years. Apple will convince you to update in 2 years though haha

 

[bbapps]

Given the iMac past delay/production issues and given Tim Cook's comment about the iMac release (e.g. wishes he waited until January 2013)....

I'm starting to wonder if MacBook Pro refresh will even be mentioned at WWDC in June. I'm thinking production samples will need to be rolling off the line before they make any type of announcement...

 

[ladeer]

The quicker you can get your ideas out at the iOS App Store, the quicker you can push your app up the ladder before copycats starts coming in. Once you start making some cash, you can then buy a maxed out retina laptop when it comes out later this year or next year.

Very very few people, much less for a college student who never owns a Mac or coded a line for iOS, will be able to make a single dollar from iOS dev ANYTIME soon. The idea is romantic but the reality is that the market is very saturated and genuinely novel idea is rare. Most likely the OP's app will be a copycat itself. Heck, it will be many many months before he could even code an app worthy of publishing, not to mention the need to have design/art work, and a registered company before you are allowed to sell an app.

I am not trying to discourage you OP, I just want you to know it's not as easy as someone else here might give you the impression. It's a lot of hard work so good luck!

 

[bbishop93]

Very very few people, much less for a college student who never owns a Mac or coded a line for iOS, will be able to make a single dollar from iOS dev ANYTIME soon. The idea is romantic but the reality is that the market is very saturated and genuinely novel idea is rare. Most likely the OP's app will be a copycat itself. Heck, it will be many many months before he could even code an app worthy of publishing, not to mention the need to have design/art work, and a registered company before you are allowed to sell an app.

I am not trying to discourage you OP, I just want you to know it's not as easy as someone else here might give you the impression. It's a lot of hard work so good luck!

I do realize that, I'm not an idiot I never said I'd make a lot of money, all I said was I have an idea for an app I know a couple variations of C language and I want to learn apples and create my app. It's not a copycat app and I honestly could care less if it gets approved or sold I wanna make it for myself so I can learn which is why I need a Mac. I never once had the impression I'd make bank off this app, I'm gonna be making my money through my internship, the app is just something for me. It still doesn't change the fact however that I do wanna start learning it soon and be able to work well on macs as well as I can on pcs. And regardless of your ignorant comment that's not the point of this thread, I did not ask for app advice or some know it all to tell me its not likely the app will sell. If you want to contribute and tell me something I don't know why don't you comment on what I asked advice for...and that's waiting till june for possible haswell update or just buying one now.

 

[omgitscro]

I do realize that, I'm not an idiot I never said I'd make a lot of money, all I said was I have an idea for an app I know a couple variations of C language and I want to learn apples and create my app. It's not a copycat app and I honestly could care less if it gets approved or sold I wanna make it for myself so I can learn which is why I need a Mac. I never once had the impression I'd make bank off this app, I'm gonna be making my money through my internship, the app is just something for me. It still doesn't change the fact however that I do wanna start learning it soon and be able to work well on macs as well as I can on pcs. And regardless of your ignorant comment that's not the point of this thread, I did not ask for app advice or some know it all to tell me its not likely the app will sell. If you want to contribute and tell me something I don't know why don't you comment on what I asked advice for...and that's waiting till june for possible haswell update or just buying one now.

A couple of things; first, it's "could not care less," not "could care less."

Second, the language you used in your comment was uncalled for. I don't believe that ladeer meant to do anything but give you some friendly advice from his perspective.

 

[ladeer]

I do realize that, I'm not an idiot I never said I'd make a lot of money, all I said was I have an idea for an app I know a couple variations of C language and I want to learn apples and create my app. It's not a copycat app and I honestly could care less if it gets approved or sold I wanna make it for myself so I can learn which is why I need a Mac. I never once had the impression I'd make bank off this app, I'm gonna be making my money through my internship, the app is just something for me. It still doesn't change the fact however that I do wanna start learning it soon and be able to work well on macs as well as I can on pcs. And regardless of your ignorant comment that's not the point of this thread, I did not ask for app advice or some know it all to tell me its not likely the app will sell. If you want to contribute and tell me something I don't know why don't you comment on what I asked advice for...and that's waiting till june for possible haswell update or just buying one now.

i wasn't replying to you, but more to the other person who told you "get it fast so you can start making money" and didn't want you to have the wrong expectation, because you will be disappointed
really i want to encourage you on this journey and didn't want you to fail because of unreal expectation.

 

[Exana]

Well, I did not get very precise informations, only a general overview (no picture allowed no document given). More will comes next week with a CPU sample and technical PDF. It seems at time Intel is still not sure of some details. In june, they will launch Quad core for desktop and mobile at the same times. Dual Core, U series and Y series (less than 6 W SDP ≠ TDP) will comes later with no date at time. This looks damn like Ivy Bridge launch...

GT3e will only be BGA in a single very big package including PCH. There will be 57 W Quad Core standard mobile voltage SKU and a 28 W Dual Core ULV. Counterpart without GT3e (aka HD Graphics 4000) will have 47 W and 15 W TDP.

Intel show Tombraider running Full HD medium settings at more than 30 fps. GT3e scores two times better than HD Graphics 4000 in 3D Mark 2011. They claim HD Graphics 5200 can face GeForce GT 650m. I do not believe a 10 to 13 W TDP GPU can run games as fast as a 30 W dedicated GPU with it's own GDDR5.

Most Haswell have a +2 W TDP but PCH TDP is lowered by 1.5 to 2 W. This is due to the voltage module going from ?? nm PCH to 22 nm CPU. Other ICs uses for the platform are reduced so a notebook Haswell will be more power efficient. An average battery life of 6 h with Ivy Bridge will be 8 h with Haswell running Mobile Mark, so about 30% more. Seems a bit lot to me...

I wonder witch Haswell Apple will choose. For Retina 15.4, I suppose 47 W Haswell and an external GPU. 57 W part with HD Graphics 5200 will not be a jump forward in 3D performances vs current IVB and GeForce GT 650m (imo). This SKU seems to have a too high TDP for 13.3 Retina (current have a 35 W). I hope MacBook Air 13.3 will get a U sku with GT3e, but it also looks over *watted*. Perhaps Apple will fit it into the 13.3 Retina ? I'm puzzled. Also will Apple wait for dual core to refresh 13 and 15 ? Will they refresh 15 first and 13 later... IMO, it will be both for Late 2013 MacBook Pro and no HD Graphics 5200.

Sorry for my english.

----------

Never? What about last June?

Did you know june is Q2 ?

 

[fatlardo]

Well, I did not get very precise informations, only a general overview (no picture allowed no document given). More will comes next week with a CPU sample and technical PDF. It seems at time Intel is still not sure of some details. In june, they will launch Quad core for desktop and mobile at the same times. Dual Core, U series and Y series (less than 6 W SDP ≠ TDP) will comes later with no date at time. This looks damn like Ivy Bridge launch...

GT3e will only be BGA in a single very big package including PCH. There will be 57 W Quad Core standard mobile voltage SKU and a 28 W Dual Core ULV. Counterpart without GT3e (aka HD Graphics 4000) will have 47 W and 15 W TDP.

Intel show Tombraider running Full HD medium settings at more than 30 fps. GT3e scores two times better than HD Graphics 4000 in 3D Mark 2011. They claim HD Graphics 5200 can face GeForce GT 650m. I do not believe a 10 to 13 W TDP GPU can run games as fast as a 30 W dedicated GPU with it's own GDDR5.

Most Haswell have a +2 W TDP but PCH TDP is lowered by 1.5 to 2 W. This is due to the voltage module going from ?? nm PCH to 22 nm CPU. Other ICs uses for the platform are reduced so a notebook Haswell will be more power efficient. An average battery life of 6 h with Ivy Bridge will be 8 h with Haswell running Mobile Mark, so about 30% more. Seems a bit lot to me...

I wonder witch Haswell Apple will choose. For Retina 15.4, I suppose 47 W Haswell and an external GPU. 57 W part with HD Graphics 5200 will not be a jump forward in 3D performances vs current IVB and GeForce GT 650m (imo). This SKU seems to have a too high TDP for 13.3 Retina (current have a 35 W). I hope MacBook Air 13.3 will get a U sku with GT3e, but it also looks over *watted*. Perhaps Apple will fit it into the 13.3 Retina ? I'm puzzled. Also will Apple wait for dual core to refresh 13 and 15 ? Will they refresh 15 first and 13 later... IMO, it will be both for Late 2013 MacBook Pro and no HD Graphics 5200.

Sorry for my english.

----------



Did you know june is Q2 ?

You are awesome! Thanks for the info!

 

[Exana]

I check 3D Mark 11 score for HD Graphics 4000 at notebookcheck. It's about 600. HD Graphics will double so ~1200. MacBook Pro Retina 15's GeForce GT 650m reach 2380... 1100~1200 is a GPU like Radeon HD 7670M or GeForce GT 630m

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GT-630M.63761.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Apple-MacBook-Pro-15-Retina-2-3-GHz-Mid-2012.78959.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-7670M.69483.0.html

According to Tombraider benchmark at Notebookcheck, GeForce GT 650m handles +35 fps with high graphics setting and +60 fps for medium. So GeForce GT 650m is here about 50% ahead. Do not take it for cash, exact game setting are unknow... GeForce GT 630m match the HD 5200 expected performances within Tombraider.

Of course, it's nice for an iGPU but still far from a GeForce GT 650m.

 

[adjeff8]

Well, I did not get very precise informations, only a general overview (no picture allowed no document given). More will comes next week with a CPU sample and technical PDF. It seems at time Intel is still not sure of some details. In june, they will launch Quad core for desktop and mobile at the same times. Dual Core, U series and Y series (less than 6 W SDP ≠ TDP) will comes later with no date at time. This looks damn like Ivy Bridge launch...

GT3e will only be BGA in a single very big package including PCH. There will be 57 W Quad Core standard mobile voltage SKU and a 28 W Dual Core ULV. Counterpart without GT3e (aka HD Graphics 4000) will have 47 W and 15 W TDP.

Intel show Tombraider running Full HD medium settings at more than 30 fps. GT3e scores two times better than HD Graphics 4000 in 3D Mark 2011. They claim HD Graphics 5200 can face GeForce GT 650m. I do not believe a 10 to 13 W TDP GPU can run games as fast as a 30 W dedicated GPU with it's own GDDR5.

Most Haswell have a +2 W TDP but PCH TDP is lowered by 1.5 to 2 W. This is due to the voltage module going from ?? nm PCH to 22 nm CPU. Other ICs uses for the platform are reduced so a notebook Haswell will be more power efficient. An average battery life of 6 h with Ivy Bridge will be 8 h with Haswell running Mobile Mark, so about 30% more. Seems a bit lot to me...

I wonder witch Haswell Apple will choose. For Retina 15.4, I suppose 47 W Haswell and an external GPU. 57 W part with HD Graphics 5200 will not be a jump forward in 3D performances vs current IVB and GeForce GT 650m (imo). This SKU seems to have a too high TDP for 13.3 Retina (current have a 35 W). I hope MacBook Air 13.3 will get a U sku with GT3e, but it also looks over *watted*. Perhaps Apple will fit it into the 13.3 Retina ? I'm puzzled. Also will Apple wait for dual core to refresh 13 and 15 ? Will they refresh 15 first and 13 later... IMO, it will be both for Late 2013 MacBook Pro and no HD Graphics 5200.

Sorry for my english.

----------



Did you know june is Q2 ?

Of course I know this. We have math here in America too. What I am saying is Apple will put out a MacBook Pro with Haswell as soon as they possibly can. The chip is ready June 2, so that will make it a 3rd quarter release. Whatever they've done in the past is irrelevant. If they could they would release the computer in June, just like they did last year. But they will need 1 to 2 months for manufacturing. You are making it sound like they are saying to themselves "Ok, we can not get it released in time for the 2nd quarter like we did last year, and since we never release a Pro in the 3rd quarter we will now have to wait for the 4th quarter" I can assure you this is not the case.

Also-Your English is fine. I work in Eastern Europe often and I wish everybody spoke English as well as you.

 

[Exana]

Of course I know this. We have math here in America too. What I am saying is Apple will put out a MacBook Pro with Haswell as soon as they possibly can. The chip is ready June 2, so that will make it a 3rd quarter release. Whatever they've done in the past is irrelevant. If they could they would release the computer in June, just like they did last year. But they will need 1 to 2 months for manufacturing. You are making it sound like they are saying to themselves "Ok, we can not get it released in time for the 2nd quarter like we did last year, and since we never release a Pro in the 3rd quarter we will now have to wait for the 4th quarter" I can assure you this is not the case.

Also-Your English is fine. I work in Eastern Europe often and I wish everybody spoke English as well as you.

OK. I say never because a follow all MacBook Pro launch date (check Wiki's). Apple never released a MacBook Pro in July, Augustus or September.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Pro

It seems Apple have
- early : January, February, March
- mid : April, May, June
Never spot any launch in july, augustus or september.
- late : October, November, December

Only the 2011 MacBook Air was launched in July.

BTW, it makes sense. July and Augustus are summer holiday. If you check worldwide high tech sales (including laptops), it's the lowest sales period.

PS : It's only IMO. Perhaps Apple will be in a hurry and wants to be within the first.

PPS : Also, due to PCH bug, I think Apple will wait new stepping coming only in mid-July according to mainboard manufacturers.

 

[bbishop93]

OK. I say never because a follow all MacBook Pro launch date (check Wiki's). Apple never released a MacBook Pro in July, Augustus or September.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Pro

It seems Apple have
- early : January, February, March
- mid : April, May, June
Never spot any launch in july, augustus or september.
- late : October, November, December

Only the 2011 MacBook Air was launched in July.

BTW, it makes sense. July and Augustus are summer holiday. If you check worldwide high tech sales (including laptops), it's the lowest sales period.

PS : It's only IMO. Perhaps Apple will be in a hurry and wants to be within the first.

PPS : Also, due to PCH bug, I think Apple will wait new stepping coming only in mid-July according to mainboard manufacturers.

So do you think it's worth it to wait till the WWDC in june to decide or should I just spec it out and buy it now?

 

[B...]

So do you think it's worth it to wait till the WWDC in june to decide or should I just spec it out and buy it now?

I think it is worth the wait if you can, because a) you might have more money to spend by that time, b) it will let you know the new options and c) if you don't like the new options you can buy the old models for a discounted price. This is only if you feel comfortable waiting, and if they announce computers at WWDC on June 10-14.

 

[gregornz]

Will they refresh 15 first and 13 later...

Perhaps the 15 will come before the 13, just like they way they were first released.

Then again, I think apple already has the chips (http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Has...cpu,21911.html), I think they've already fully designed the systems (there is a lot more to this than just whacking in a CPU), and I think we'll see a release in July, just like mr Kuo predicts. Who's got $5 to bet against me?

I'm expecting:

IGZO panels and Haswell chips to reduce (idle) power enough to allow for a slight battery reduction, and hence a slight redesign (as Mr Kuo predicted) that makes the unit slightly smaller and lighter with a 20-30% increase in battery lastage time.

A tidy up of the issues with the first gen; cooling, display issues to be mitigated, though no doubt new issues will arise.

256G and 8G to remain standard, but a 1 or 2 or 3 hundred dollar price drop.

CPU benchmarks that are a evolution, not a revolution.

To ship with OSX.9 which will be announced/detailed at WWDC and "availiable July, along with the new MBP".

So, $5 on those ideas and $5 on the July release... I'm waiting for haswell, not because I think that the CPU is going to be uber (I'm a philosophy major, I use word and chrome), but because I bought a first gen iphone and a first gen ipad, and buying first gen is just not a great idea, if, if you have an option.

 

[luffytubby]

I check 3D Mark 11 score for HD Graphics 4000 at notebookcheck. It's about 600. HD Graphics will double so ~1200. MacBook Pro Retina 15's GeForce GT 650m reach 2380... 1100~1200 is a GPU like Radeon HD 7670M or GeForce GT 630m

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GT-630M.63761.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Apple-MacBook-Pro-15-Retina-2-3-GHz-Mid-2012.78959.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-7670M.69483.0.html

According to Tombraider benchmark at Notebookcheck, GeForce GT 650m handles +35 fps with high graphics setting and +60 fps for medium. So GeForce GT 650m is here about 50% ahead. Do not take it for cash, exact game setting are unknow... GeForce GT 630m match the HD 5200 expected performances within Tombraider.

Of course, it's nice for an iGPU but still far from a GeForce GT 650m.

While I don't disagree with you(I agree with you) please be careful with using notebookcheck as a source.

 

[Pentad]

I am looking forward to the refresh. I have very much enjoyed my MBPr and I am curious to see what Apple does with the refresh. For me, it is not just about the CPU but if they include 802.11ac, tweak the design, release a 17" model, up the memory, offer a full TB of SSD.

I'm not saying ALL of these items will be true, I'm just interested in what the refresh will bring. I've been buying a new MBP about every year so I'm interested to see what Apple does...

-P

 

[Nismo73]

I would think Apple wants to get the 15 Haswell out as soon as possible so it doesn't start running into an all new Air release which we all think is due this fall.

They don't want to be on stage and say "Here's our 15" Macbook Pro with Haswell that gets better battery life, yada, yada, yada...and also! Here's our redesigned Macbook Air with higher resolution, better battery life, 2X improved graphics and it's even thinner! - everything you wanted for the past three years, it just works"