Buy now rMBP? or wait for Haswell?

[adjeff8]

OK. I say never because a follow all MacBook Pro launch date (check Wiki's). Apple never released a MacBook Pro in July, Augustus or September.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Pro

It seems Apple have
- early : January, February, March
- mid : April, May, June
Never spot any launch in july, augustus or september.
- late : October, November, December

Only the 2011 MacBook Air was launched in July.

BTW, it makes sense. July and Augustus are summer holiday. If you check worldwide high tech sales (including laptops), it's the lowest sales period.

PS : It's only IMO. Perhaps Apple will be in a hurry and wants to be within the first.

PPS : Also, due to PCH bug, I think Apple will wait new stepping coming only in mid-July according to mainboard manufacturers.

Well, there's a first time for everything. Also, consider this, the plan was for a June release, like last year. But then Intel had to push back their release date for Haswell. So Apple will ramp it up when they get those chips in early June. You gotta figure the machines are in production, just waiting for the chips. Also, there's a huge group of students that are waiting to buy their back to school computers here in the U.S. Mid August is my guess

 

[bbishop93]

Well, there's a first time for everything. Also, consider this, the plan was for a June release, like last year. But then Intel had to push back their release date for Haswell. So Apple will ramp it up when they get those chips in early June. You gotta figure the machines are in production, just waiting for the chips. Also, there's a huge group of students that are waiting to buy their back to school computers here in the U.S. Mid August is my guess

If I'm not mistaken Intel had already shipped haswell to manufacturers in early april... The computers are supposed to be released in June(apparently) so apple can't just get the chips in early June, otherwise they'd be behind on releasing it with Haswell. I believe that Apple may already be in possession of the chips and are working on their new models I just don't know when, june. july, august or later, they would be in the new models.

 

[Mr MM]

I check 3D Mark 11 score for HD Graphics 4000 at notebookcheck. It's about 600. HD Graphics will double so ~1200. MacBook Pro Retina 15's GeForce GT 650m reach 2380... 1100~1200 is a GPU like Radeon HD 7670M or GeForce GT 630m

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GT-630M.63761.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Apple-MacBook-Pro-15-Retina-2-3-GHz-Mid-2012.78959.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-7670M.69483.0.html

According to Tombraider benchmark at Notebookcheck, GeForce GT 650m handles +35 fps with high graphics setting and +60 fps for medium. So GeForce GT 650m is here about 50% ahead. Do not take it for cash, exact game setting are unknow... GeForce GT 630m match the HD 5200 expected performances within Tombraider.

Of course, it's nice for an iGPU but still far from a GeForce GT 650m.

I just did some creative math, those numbers are from 3dmark11 P setting

HD 4000 = 700-800

HD4600 = HD4000 * 20% = 840-960

HD 5100 = HD 4600 * 50% = 1260-1440

Thus the HD 5200 for me is around P1600 = HD 5100 * 33% or 13%, and that is still a whole lot for just 128mb of a very wide and fast edram

given that I dont believe in any numbers from that hideous thing called notebookcheck (they are incredibly and accurately always wrong, its hard to maintain such history, so kudos to them)

OK. I say never because a follow all MacBook Pro launch date (check Wiki's). Apple never released a MacBook Pro in July, Augustus or September.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Pro

It seems Apple have
- early : January, February, March
- mid : April, May, June
Never spot any launch in july, augustus or september.
- late : October, November, December

Only the 2011 MacBook Air was launched in July.

BTW, it makes sense. July and Augustus are summer holiday. If you check worldwide high tech sales (including laptops), it's the lowest sales period.

PS : It's only IMO. Perhaps Apple will be in a hurry and wants to be within the first.

PPS : Also, due to PCH bug, I think Apple will wait new stepping coming only in mid-July according to mainboard manufacturers.

that is based on the past intel launch model, not that ivy launch with a scattered release line didnt help matters, but we are facing some new schedules, though according to Cook we are expected to receive some models in Q4, which is really late even to the back to school season which is profitable to say the least

If I'm not mistaken Intel had already shipped haswell to manufacturers in early april... The computers are supposed to be released in June(apparently) so apple can't just get the chips in early June, otherwise they'd be behind on releasing it with Haswell. I believe that Apple may already be in possession of the chips and are working on their new models I just don't know when, june. july, august or later, they would be in the new models.

they have, they dont ship chips that late to the party, you also have the pch, you also have to get some stock up, so the launch goes more smoothly

Well, I did not get very precise informations, only a general overview (no picture allowed no document given). More will comes next week with a CPU sample and technical PDF. It seems at time Intel is still not sure of some details. In june, they will launch Quad core for desktop and mobile at the same times. Dual Core, U series and Y series (less than 6 W SDP ≠ TDP) will comes later with no date at time. This looks damn like Ivy Bridge launch...

GT3e will only be BGA in a single very big package including PCH. There will be 57 W Quad Core standard mobile voltage SKU and a 28 W Dual Core ULV. Counterpart without GT3e (aka HD Graphics 4000) will have 47 W and 15 W TDP.

Intel show Tombraider running Full HD medium settings at more than 30 fps. GT3e scores two times better than HD Graphics 4000 in 3D Mark 2011. They claim HD Graphics 5200 can face GeForce GT 650m. I do not believe a 10 to 13 W TDP GPU can run games as fast as a 30 W dedicated GPU with it's own GDDR5.

Most Haswell have a +2 W TDP but PCH TDP is lowered by 1.5 to 2 W. This is due to the voltage module going from ?? nm PCH to 22 nm CPU. Other ICs uses for the platform are reduced so a notebook Haswell will be more power efficient. An average battery life of 6 h with Ivy Bridge will be 8 h with Haswell running Mobile Mark, so about 30% more. Seems a bit lot to me...

I wonder witch Haswell Apple will choose. For Retina 15.4, I suppose 47 W Haswell and an external GPU. 57 W part with HD Graphics 5200 will not be a jump forward in 3D performances vs current IVB and GeForce GT 650m (imo). This SKU seems to have a too high TDP for 13.3 Retina (current have a 35 W). I hope MacBook Air 13.3 will get a U sku with GT3e, but it also looks over *watted*. Perhaps Apple will fit it into the 13.3 Retina ? I'm puzzled. Also will Apple wait for dual core to refresh 13 and 15 ? Will they refresh 15 first and 13 later... IMO, it will be both for Late 2013 MacBook Pro and no HD Graphics 5200.

Sorry for my english.

----------



Did you know june is Q2 ?

this is interesting info, I still think that hey will launch 37w tdp cpus, otherwise I dont see even apple bothering to buy them, you did miss the 5100 which is a gt3 core without the edram.

The pch is build on 65nm till now, we are moving to 32nm not 22nm

Anyway you didnt go sight seeing in Kyoto? the have I think 1k temples there, shouldve gone

 

[Exana]

Line up for mobile

- Standard mobile voltage : 57 W (Quad, GT3e, June, no IVB counterpart), 47 W (Quad, GT?, June), 37 W (Dual, GT?, later)
- U : 28 W (Dual, GTEe, ?, no IVB counterpart), 15 W (Dual, GT?, ?)
- Y : 6 W (Dual, GT?, ?)

For now, I didn't know how many model Intel will offer in each power class.

For PCH, perhaps I write english wrong.
IVB : Voltage regulator is in the PCH 65 nm (7 series) with a 6~7 TDP.
HSW : Voltage regulator is within the CPU so in 22 nm. 8 Series PCH have a ~4,5 W TDP. PCH seems to keep 65 nm process.


3D performances estimation is hard beacause all HD Graphics 4000 have not the same Turbo freq. All laptops did not use DDR3 1600 Dual chanel (some low end still have DDR3 1333 or even single channel). Most time, I take MacBook Pro score witch is the most important for us. Intel marketing handle numbers very well. We did not know witch HD Graphics 4000 is the ref. They can take a *not too powerfull CPU* with HD Graphics 4000 and the best new Haswell to get magic two times faster. Marketing power !

I also noticed Apple *nearly never* release ealry and mid same year. Of cours it can change. Even last year, Apple was not first on IVB. They wait WWDC (to show Retina). Apple can do mid 2013 in Augustus. Every one has its own guess.

I was not in Kyoto.

 

[fskywalker]

Suggest you take advantage of great deals available now, I grab in Ebay a 6 month old max out (2.7/16/768) Samsung display rMBP 15 inch with 3 yr Applecare for $2400, MSRP was like $3700 without the $349 Applecare when released.

 

[Mr MM]

Line up for mobile

- Standard mobile voltage : 57 W (Quad, GT3e, June, no IVB counterpart), 47 W (Quad, GT?, June), 37 W (Dual, GT?, later)
- U : 28 W (Dual, GTEe, ?, no IVB counterpart), 15 W (Dual, GT?, ?)
- Y : 6 W (Dual, GT?, ?)

For now, I didn't know how many model Intel will offer in each power class.

For PCH, perhaps I write english wrong.
IVB : Voltage regulator is in the PCH 65 nm (7 series) with a 6~7 TDP.
HSW : Voltage regulator is within the CPU so in 22 nm. 8 Series PCH have a ~4,5 W TDP. PCH seems to keep 65 nm process.


3D performances estimation is hard beacause all HD Graphics 4000 have not the same Turbo freq. All laptops did not use DDR3 1600 Dual chanel (some low end still have DDR3 1333 or even single channel). Most time, I take MacBook Pro score witch is the most important for us. Intel marketing handle numbers very well. We did not know witch HD Graphics 4000 is the ref. They can take a *not too powerfull CPU* with HD Graphics 4000 and the best new Haswell to get magic two times faster. Marketing power !

I also noticed Apple *nearly never* release ealry and mid same year. Of cours it can change. Even last year, Apple was not first on IVB. They wait WWDC (to show Retina). Apple can do mid 2013 in Augustus. Every one has its own guess.

I was not in Kyoto.

I think I was mistaken then on the PCH thing as well, apparently only the 9 series chipset will move to 32nm

And I thought the conference that you were was taking place on Kyoto, AFAIK thats where the VLSI is going to be this year, thought you were transported in time and space there since its going to be only through june 11-14

Regarding the HD4000, I actually just scrounged the net and came with that value for dual core cpus standard voltage (ulvs are always lower, max clock is lower and turbo as well), though late cpus from intel to have the same igpu performance than the early quads. So yeah, if Im correct it sounds possible, we have to see sustained performance with such a small cache and with such low speed ram

I think Im going for Q4, which month, no idea

 

[Exana]

And I thought the conference that you were was taking place on Kyoto, AFAIK thats where the VLSI is going to be this year, thought you were transported in time and space there since its going to be only through june 11-14

LOL autocorrection. I won't go. I will keep on posting what I get.

 

[bbishop93]

Suggest you take advantage of great deals available now, I grab in Ebay a 6 month old max out (2.7/16/768) Samsung display rMBP 15 inch with 3 yr Applecare for $2400, MSRP was like $3700 without the $349 Applecare when released.

How the hell did you find that deal lol? I've been stalking ebay and nothing has even come close... But you don't think the prices will come down more at the release of haswell or if its just worth it to grab the new haswell instead?

 

[adjeff8]

If I'm not mistaken Intel had already shipped haswell to manufacturers in early april... The computers are supposed to be released in June(apparently) so apple can't just get the chips in early June, otherwise they'd be behind on releasing it with Haswell. I believe that Apple may already be in possession of the chips and are working on their new models I just don't know when, june. july, august or later, they would be in the new models.

From what everybody has been saying for months is that Intel ships the chips on June 2. So a month or two after that. But there's also been talk about I minor glitch that effects the USB 3.0 and the rumor is that only a few machines will trickle out until the next shipment of chips in time for the holidays, but I'm beginning to think that's BS

 

[MacModMachine]

i say buy now....if you need it get it


just got a retina 13" @ 1269 cad.

love it!

 

[Augustine864]

From what everybody has been saying for months is that Intel ships the chips on June 2. So a month or two after that. But there's also been talk about I minor glitch that effects the USB 3.0 and the rumor is that only a few machines will trickle out until the next shipment of chips in time for the holidays, but I'm beginning to think that's BS

So does that mean this is false/incorrect?

https://www.macrumors.com/2013/04/25/apple-expected-to-ramp-up-production-of-haswell-based-notebooks-next-month/

Or maybe I don't quite understand the specifics. (very likely)

 

[adjeff8]

So does that mean this is false/incorrect?

https://www.macrumors.com/2013/04/25/apple-expected-to-ramp-up-production-of-haswell-based-notebooks-next-month/

Or maybe I don't quite understand the specifics. (very likely)

That's a piece issued today on Macrumors. Not exactly the bible. Then again, the bible is full of mis information as well. Seriously though, I hope it's good info-I'm ITCHING for that 2nd generation Haswell 15" MBP. My 2009 MBP is making me want to shoot something.

 

[macalec]

I would simply say to buy it now since the new ones will be coming out in Fall.

 

[Mechinyun]

I bought a retina 15 inch 2 weeks ago - no regrets if it come out in june or October. I needed it. If I didn't need it I would wait.

Performance will be better - thats a given. How much is anyones guess - the majority of articles I put faith in dont seem to think its going to blow anyones minds.

best guess

13's will see the most increase in performance

15's will see a minor bump in performance.

Knowing apple - its a new machine and who knows what bugs are going to pop up - at least with the new "refreshed" 2013 Ivy's they have seem to have worked out all bugs.

 

[Exana]

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20130424PD217.html

Apple's MacBook shipments in the second quarter are expected to grow 10% sequentially as the company has almost finished digesting its excess inventory and should start placing new orders in mid-May, according to sources from the upstream supply chain.

The orders in May are expected to be mainly Haswell-based models, the sources noted.

Since Apple did not have strong notebook shipments in the first quarter, a 10% sequential growth is expected to only have a limited contribution to the upstream supply chain and MacBook shipments in 2013 may only see a single-digit percentage growth on year, compared to around 30% growth in past years, the sources said.

The sources also noted that they have not receives any instructions from Apple for major modifications over industrial designs or equipment for its MacBook Pro and iMac, indicating that Apple's product upgrades in 2013 will mainly focus on specifications.

It looks I'am wrong ! If Digitimes tells the truth.

BTW, I'am not gonna change my curent Retina witch is full Samsung and give me enough battery life.

 

[bbishop93]

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20130424PD217.html


It looks I'am wrong ! If Digitimes tells the truth.

BTW, I'am not gonna change my curent Retina witch is full Samsung and give me enough battery life.

I hope theyre telling the truth because I want the rMBP refresh and I don't feel like waiting very long haswell or not I think I'll wait for the refresh unless its not due until after the summer...

 

[Mr MM]

I hope theyre telling the truth because I want the rMBP refresh and I don't feel like waiting very long haswell or not I think I'll wait for the refresh unless its not due until after the summer...

the you are in for disappointment

 

[Mr. Retrofire]

...there's a first time for everything...

That's what she said.

 

[bbishop93]

the you are in for disappointment

Why do u say that? Apparently Haswell is coming June 4th...

 

[Mr MM]

Why do u say that? Apparently Haswell is coming June 4th...

one thing is intel launch the other thing is apple launch, while one is connected to the other, they dont necessarily are bound to happen at the same time, nor they usually do, though with wwdc it may happen

 

[bbishop93]

Well it looks like I'm waiting... even though I really don't want to

 

[deem]

Well it looks like I'm waiting... even though I really don't want to

I feel the same way, but I'm still holding out hope that I will allow myself to cave and buy now lol

 

[Woodcrest64]

I think Haswell will improve some of the UI lag with the integrated graphics but I think the biggest improvement will hopefully come with OSX 10.9

I think most of the UI lag is essentially from the operating system considering how much of an improvement 10.8.3 is on the current Retina Macbook Pro versus Lion when the machine first came out in 2012.

 

[Exana]

Improvement will come from AVX2 from CPU not from GPU. Scaling is a pure matter of CPU.

 

[bcaslis]

Why do u say that? Apparently Haswell is coming June 4th...

Haswell may come June 4, but I highly doubt new rMBPs will come then.