I was not saying he was wrong. I just wanted to know because I'm buying a 15in i5 and would not mind playing a few games on it.
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Buyers remorse :(
- Thread starter benwizkid
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I was not saying he was wrong. I just wanted to know because I'm buying a 15in i5 and would not mind playing a few games on it.
i5 plays game pretty good actually. But don't expect to run crysis on 1680 x 1050 on very high.
I got a new game, F1 2010. Look pretty amazing. But I have to scale it down to 1200 x 800 but with AA maxed out ( believe it's 16 x AA ) and everything on very high. Looks pretty amazing though
( the graphics of F1 2010 improve alot with AA settings, that's why I maxed out AA with this game. Normally I leave AA off or set it X2 or X4 )You really start to notice the limitations of the 330m on the newer games like F1 2010. But for playing a few games it's good enough.
Not true. It is highly likely that 13" MBP uses a C2D still because intel could not supply i3 chips at the time they were being produced. Battery life is going to be determined by the amount of current drawn by the components in a laptop, and newer components tend to be more energy efficient giving a better battery life. Also in terms of good graphics in terms of battery life there are options life nvidia optimus
http://www.nvidia.com/object/optimus_technology.html
Apple just doesn't want to implement them for some reason.
In the end, the hardware Apple puts in its systems is appalling in terms of current technology. Things are made even worse by the cost of them for the old technology.
The operating system may be good, but that is software. It seems a lot of discussions in these forums seem to defend apple hardware but usually points are made about efficiency / productivity etc which is only determined by the OS, not the hardware.
The hardware is going to be very similar if not identical to a PC within a MBP. Items like RAM, hard drive, DVD drive, graphics card processor are all the same. That leaves the motherboard really which I have no idea what they use. I suspect it isn't made by apple though.
In the end, I would say they are only worth it at half the price.
Your post is so wrong on so many points. For one Apple CANNOT fit a core i3 into the Macbook 13" because it would then mean you HAVE to use the built in Intel graphics only, this is due to the legal licensing mess between intel and Nvidia. And Apple can in no way fit a separate discrete GPU into the chassis, it won't fit!!
So what they have done is given you the best solution and work around they could.
Apple have also made there OWN version of Optimus, it runs differently to Nvidia's solution but yet again it ONLY works on the 15 and 17" MB Pro's because the 13" only has ONE GPU. Optimus wouldn't do anything!
So Apple are not 'For Some Reason' refusing to use other components or technology's, it's because they CAN'T use them! The ONLY way they could include all the lovely tech your on about is if they completely redesign the 13" model from scratch and put a discrete GPU into it.
And to that end it would be a total waste of a LOT of time, money, resources. Because when Sandy Bridge comes out next year they will be able to use those again with no threat of legal action from Intel!!
I'm sorry, thanks for your post but it's almost like you have no idea what Apple has done and why they have done it and then just slagged them off as overpriced rubbish!!!
I dont feel cheated at all. Hardware chasing in the computer world gets you nowhere. I bought my machine for stability and speed. The macbook pro in my signature ran circles around my $7k HP xeon based workstation where I worked even though the HP had "way better specs" then the MBP.
Depends on what you use it for.
I will tell you this. I seriously considered returning my first 13". What made me stick with it is primarily the fact that I'd already sold my Gateway and really had nothing to go back to, so I had to effectively suck it up.
The 13" turned out to be not enough and I ended up upgrading twice - until I reached my 17". I imagine I will have the 17" for quite some time. It seems to be able to handle the majority of what I need it to - as long as I keep some VMWare VM's for those apps that Apple fails in. Movie editing, for example.
I tell you like I tell everyone who is even considering a Mac: if you go into it expecting a full-on replacement, it's going to fail. Everyone I know who bought a Mac ends up running at least one VM. That's okay - as long as you accept the reality of that. Part of your remorse comes from trying to do things in the Mac that you could more easily do on the PC. Doesn't work that way.
Fair enough,
For starters, why is legal licensing a problem or concern for me as a consumer? I am not interested in legal things, I was just pointing out that there are better technologies available.
Also when you say the 13" would have to be redesigned by Apple its not that big a deal. The only thing they actually designed from scratch was the aluminium casing. A laptop design is pretty standard - motherboard, processor, ram, hard drive, gpu. Then stick all these components in a case. It's like saying the mac pro is amazingly well designed by apple - its basically the same as PC hardware with a a silver case with the ability to run OS X and at least 3x the price. I'm sure people will disagree with this.
If I wanted to build a new PC, I don't go back to the drawing board and re design everything, I just get new components. Apple will do this too, but will select components that are energy efficient to give good battery life.
In terms of the original post and value for money it might be worth considering if people would feel their apple hardware was good value for money if OS X could be installed on any hardware (like Windows).
Perhaps you need to check this workstation. Perhaps you also need to check your head (unless your HP workstation was 10 year old but then what would be the point of such comparison in a first place?)
You know its kind of weird listening you saying you have to lower the resolution and settings while noticing that you have Core i7 CPU. Whats the point of getting high end CPU (Mac) when you have to lower down the settings.
To Thread Starter Honestly I like my Mac, you just have to know how to love it (Yet I still hesitate very often).
Honestly hardware-wise MBP 13 is crap, outdated piece of hardware wrapped into a new package and sold at the price of mid-high end laptops. But I bough it mainly for battery life and small form factor (by far its not the lightest notebook available). I was deciding between Sony Vaio E which had Core i5 and 1GB dedicated GPU form ATI. But went for MBP 13" however I kind a regret it sometime when I feel like playing a game. What Makes a mac "MAc" is OSX and nothing else, otherwise its just all PC with a fancy design.
To a person who said its expensive to maintain OSX, not really, not for a company this size. Remember Apple is a hardware company that specialises in selling overpriced hardware. OSX doesn't even have any copy protection on it, therefore it is not as important to apple as Windows to Microsoft.
Yes get Applecare. No it's NOT the best customer service around, but it's a decent enough deal. Considering the climbing failure rate of Macs, it's needed.
You will feel worse when you realize that the O/S is mostly free to Apple.
I just recently purchased my MBP (Jan 2010) and I too feel underwhelmed by the value. The lack of software is the most disappointing part to me. I do like the slightly more reliable O/S. However the constant lack of up to date hardware is annoying, and the fact that I am paying a premium for less than premium gear really grates on me. I also don't appreciate being limited in selection. minimum $2200 for a configurable box?!
One of the reasons that Windows boxes need more power is to run the bloated O/S, and the security software you MUST run. All in all, it is a wash on specs + software. That leaves usability, and the Mac is slightly ahead.
Having said that, dick measurers (people who put their "home rolled" specs in their sig, or brag they have the most cutting edge this or that) are people who don't have any talent. It's meaningless if you don't do anything with it.
Don't get me started on the lousy mice that you can use with Macs ...
Wrong! They are a content company that sells gear. They make money by selling the gear and then tying it into their services.
They also make money selling software, you may have heard of Final Cut? Aperture? Don't think for one minute they are not making money on those packages.
Also Applecare is a hugh profit maker for Apple.
As for overpriced hardware, not true. When I bought my MBP it was comparable in price to a similar Dell. It was a better value, purchase wise because of what it came with and the fact that I didn't need $200 + $50/yr for security software. The problem is once you own a Mac, the software you can purchase is less than stellar. There are exceptions, but mostly software is lacking.
As a side note, the reason I switched was because I was doing more writing, and not working in IT anymore. The writing software is better on Mac, but it's the only segment that is better.
Also I have played some games on my MBP 13.3 just fine. Sure a 40 inch screen with surround sound would be better. So would owning an Island in the Caribbean, but reality is at hand. And not the MBP 13 is not trash.
I used every single version of windows since 3.1 I gotta say Mac was ahead till Windows 7 came a long, Running Windows 7 on my wifes notebook with hardware worse than mine on MBP13 and it is still considerably faster.
I may be ignorant on some things, I may supply false facts, and I may be ranting but I'm gonna post this anyway, but not on an offensive note but as a rebuttal. Hope someone can confirm my statements!
It takes engineers to design a laptop to provide quality experience to the person who is using it. In a laptop, the amount of space, the placement of hardware, the amount of cooling each piece of hardware receives, the airflow, the placement of fans, etc. are all considered and thought out. You're argument is based on desktops. Sure, I can take an ATX tower, stick in a bunch of fans, and replace the hardware for the next 20 years and it'll still be cool. Really, you don't worry about a "noisy" desktop with full size speakers or decent headphones attached to a built-in headphone amp sound card or lug it around (unless you go to LAN parties, then you get a small form factor).
I've used laptops that are straight out awful to laptops that are near pristine in user-experience. A big, bulky, finicky, plastic, laptop with noisy fans can sure do the job of cooling a laptop with a cheap price tag but it would be very painful to use and to carry. Apple's unibody design allowed a larger, better battery than most.The Macbook and Macbook Pro are hands-down one of the reasons why someone would buy a laptop, nevermind the OSX.
Legal licensing is a problem for a consumer, because if two different companies, who patents their own inventions, do not want to work together, then technology can't be delivered at its fullest. It's like one company who owned all of the peanut butter brands suddenly forbid the combination of peanut butter with jelly because they want everyone to use their peanut butter and hummus combination. It affects what can go in the market, and therefore what's available to the consumers.
Apple hardware can use Windows 7. I don't see how Apple hardware value is increased, rather it would decrease, if the OSX can be supplied to any third-party computer maker. Hardware is hardware, most if not all are the same.
and you are an *******. a really big *******. exactly the kind of ******* that gives tech people a bad name. Not everyone is a loser like you who slavishly follows Apple, and sucks up every little bit on minutiae on specs. We have lives.
Oh and not everyone worships Apple as you do. I bet you voted for Obama.
he is right that Apple is WAY behind the tech curve and it's NOT because of legal hassles either.
I seriously doubt that. Unless you downgraded the visuals, and are running it naked. Then maybe.
Windows 7 is less of a 'drama queen' but it still sucks. You still MUST have an A/V scanner, which slows down the machine, unless you are running on the weakest setting, not smart.
Beyond that is it much easier to admin Mac Boxes than Win boxes. Granted my first real IT gig was with AIX, so the command line and I + perl get along well.
Having said that, being faster is NOT always a sign of better software.
It's funny. I can appreciate why the OP feels that way, but I have the opposite feeling about my MBP 17 2.8 C2D.
It runs OS X so beautifully, and all the applications that I need and love. Personally, I am much happier using this machine than a Windows lappie, and the speed of the processor and the like never even cross my mind when I using the machine. I just love the experience of using it.
Yeah, I know Macs are more expensive on a part by part basis, but if you prefer OS X, it isn't about the parts. It's about the whole.
It runs OS X so beautifully, and all the applications that I need and love. Personally, I am much happier using this machine than a Windows lappie, and the speed of the processor and the like never even cross my mind when I using the machine. I just love the experience of using it.
Yeah, I know Macs are more expensive on a part by part basis, but if you prefer OS X, it isn't about the parts. It's about the whole.
I ran windows on max settings with UI and I had User experience rating at 6.7, Of course I know what you mean its not a sign of good software, BUT it all depends on who is writing that software. The issue I have with MAC is gaming sucks hands down. Sometimes my performance dips after each software update. Another fact is that for every single thing that you want to do in a mac you need a separate application so in the end you end up with 100s of them. Flash on mac is a different story I never saw my computer had 120% CPU load while playing youtube videos, but I Do on a mac. Same goes to 1080p videos.
Someone mentioned displayport as being one of the best things, well 20 pounds for a dondle is what you have to pay. Sometimes I wonder why Apple coming up with their standards knowing that 90% of the market will not use it, wouldnt it easier to put HDMI instead and save consumers headache and money?
By all means I'm not protecting windows, Visa was the OS I hated the most, but 7 is finally OS done properly, and Microsoft knows that if they keep screwing up they will loose their main source of income.
Wow, so ignorant and yet so utterly clueless about how technology and company's work. How old are you? 10? I feel all the more better for the OP knowing valued individuals like you can make such a well informed contribution to threads on here.
How about you move along and leave the thinking to the adults?
Actually you are pretty spot on, you cannot just simply 'add another fan or GPU' into a laptop without extensive redesing, testing, money, time. But I fear people on here can't understand this simple fact, they know everything, Apples engineers know nothing.
Well I don't know many laptops less then an inch thick that can run Metro 2033 at full resolution and details in DirectX 11? Hence why I reduce it's resolution, because I have a 330m GT, not 2 480GT's in SLI!
I MUST run?
You keep writing the same thing, that I "MUST run" virus scanning crap on my Windows box.
Well, now it's my turn.
I'm using a $500- HP desktop box purchased new last July from Best Buy. I thought Vista was really poky too. Turns out there are some good reasons for that. It was loaded down with HP crapware, trail bloatware, and I followed your corporate media ********* line that I "MUST run" virus and spyware scanners.
So I signed up for the free update to Win7. October rolls around and I get my disk and install it. I don't listen to HP's nag screen and choose update. I defy the nag screen and choose "clean install".
That's exactly what I got. No HP crapware. No software trials. No virus or spyware scanners, and I have not installed any.
I'm running naked! And it feels great. Naked 24-hours a day, seven days a week since last October. A year running Windows 7 naked.
I have not rebooted in at least three weeks. Windows Update keeps throwing up a nag every couple of days to install their growing list of updates. The explanations tell me the same corporate media ********* about attackers being able to commandeer my machine.
I refuse to listen!
My machine is snappy!
I've contributed nothing to the fat, parasitic fascist bastards of the computer security industry who spend their days watching porn and playing video games, because there's nothing to do.
It's a fascist scam. Stop believing it. Run naked with Windows 7 and enjoy yourself.
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Actually you are wrong. I take it you know the internal of a computer but to be safe let me just outline it again.....
1. Standard items.
Hard drive
Optical drive
battery / PSU
RAM - lets say DDR3 of some description
A cooling fan - lets say 1 on a laptop (2 for larger models)
Ok, these items are standard on all laptops. This is a typical setup for a consumer computer. Apple does not redesign these or re engineer them to create the ultimate laptop.
2. This leaves a motherboard, CPU and GPU.
Now, motherboard manufactures typically will have made 1000s of models over the years and are getting pretty good at it now. There is a slot on the motherboard where the CPU is placed. on top of this will be a heat sink and fan. Apple doesn't re engineer this every time a new mac book is placed.
Finally a GPU is selected to work with the motherboard. Not surprisingly, as time progresses and research and development progresses, GPUs get better and more efficient and can swapped and changed to work with existing motherboards. The only thing required now is the drivers to work with the software.
3. Other companies like Dell build laptops. They also upgrade the hardware quickly. They do not re-engineer and redesign laptops.
Battery's and PSU's are not standard, fans are not standard, they all varie depending on the laptop specs.
You are STILL thinking of a standard computer and NOT a laptop. Very few laptops let you swap GPU's and the ones that do are most certainly much thicker then any Mac. Otherwise they would not have the space for the sockets.
Go look at the photo's on ifxit to help you understand.
Negative. Virus protection is recommended, not required. Windows 7's default settings prevent the majority of viruses from running. Worst that could run is malware, contained in the C: drive, unable to do anything but popup windows. In any event, Security Essentials (which is free, BTW) doesn't slow down the machine significantly enough to bother any user. You need to get out of the Windows XP days, dude.
Personal taste. In my experience in IT, I find that Mac devices are pretty much set-and-forget; except when something goes wrong. Then it's a pain to effectively troubleshoot what's wrong because the OS is designed to be "friendly". Having to resort to the install CD 90% of the time doesn't help either.
Compare that to Windows 7 where:
- There are built in troubleshooters that will scan and detect the majority of issues and fix them for you.
- Microsoft offers Fix-It programs on its website that will fix known issues automatically.
- Windows Startup Repair is included with the software. It will fix most common issues.
- System Restore is significantly improved from older versions.
- Say what you will about the BSOD, at least it tries to tell you what's wrong. Unlike kernel panic which just tells you that your computer needs to be restarted.
The only issue with Windows 7 is how it renders the Aero/Desktop Composition engine. If they'd go back to the way it was done in Vista they'd have a star on their hands.
