California Joins New York in Effort to Weaken Smartphone Encryption

[robbyx]

As the argument over smartphone encryption continues on between device manufacturers like Apple, devoted to strong encryption, and U.S. federal government officials pushing for backdoors to access data, several states have gotten involved in the fray.

New York State Assemblymember Matthew Titone introduced a bill last summer that would require smartphone manufacturers to create devices that can be decrypted or unlocked or face fines, and now California State Assemblymember Jim Cooper is following in his footsteps.

Cooper on Wednesday introduced a bill that would require any smartphone manufactured after January 1, 2017 and sold in California to "be capable of being decrypted and unlocked by its manufacturer or its operating system provider." Violations carry a $2,500 fee per phone.

Should such a bill pass, it would, like the New York bill, affect both Apple and Google. iOS and Android have default encryption settings that do not allow the companies to access locked customer phones. Starting with iOS 8, Apple ceased storing encryption keys for iOS devices, making it impossible for the company to unlock content on passcode-protected devices under police request.

In a conversation with Ars Technica, Cooper argued that giving local law enforcement officials the tools to access unencrypted smartphones using warrants to fight crimes like human trafficking was not the same as giving the NSA or CIA unfettered access.In a meeting with White House officials last week, Apple CEO Tim Cook urged the Obama administration to issue a strong public statement defending unbreakable encryption and to adopt a "no backdoors" policy.

In all of his recent interviews, Cook has spoken passionately about Apple's commitment to user privacy and its strong stance on encryption. "There have been people that suggest that we should have a backdoor," Cook told Charlie Rose in December. "But the reality is if you put a back door in, that back door's for everybody, for good guys and bad guys."

Note: Due to the political nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

Article Link: California Joins New York in Effort to Weaken Smartphone Encryption

No matter where you stand on the issue, the writing is on the wall. We are one media-glorified human trafficking story away from the sheeple running to the voting booth in fear. It's inevitable. There will be no privacy in the future.
[doublepost=1453423049][/doublepost]

Just waiting for the FBI to run an operation that results in some sort of tragedy that "could have been prevented if Apple would have just unencrypted iMessage".

Oh, this is inevitable. Most people don't really understand the issue, much less the tech, so they will vote from a fear-based point of view.

 

[Carmenia83]

I hope that if this passes, the scumbag politicians backing it are the first ones to get their precious back doors hacked and that their secret craigslist m4m postings and dick pics are exposed for the all of the internet to see!

 

[bretm]

No, it doesn't, and that's clearly dangerous. For example, it would seem unreasonable to declare that you need to start spying on all Americans to make sure that nobody is participating in human trafficking.

"Yes, we're reading your emails, listening to all of your conversations online and offline and tracking your movements. But we're just trying to make sure you aren't a human trafficker!"

Or conspiring to overthrow the government! Which you have every right to do. Or at least every right to talk about doing. Wait, are they listening in here? Should I be worried someone might have backdoor access to macrumors to get to who I am or what me email is? Maybe they start snooping around my work or friends and asking about me. Or threatening audits of my friends tax records if they don't spill the beans and keep quiet. Is this the world people want to live in? It probably goes on without being legalized anyway and that's enough for me. And if some idiot says " if you have done nothing you have nothing to worry about" I'm gonna, well, I better not saying anything that could be misconstrued because big brother might be listening. F that.

 

[joecool99]

I'm torn on this issue - clearly if you are a BAD guy doing horrible ****, such encryption is your best friend.
Think i would be ok - IF company ONLY can decrypt such device AFTER court order etc. - same procedure as house warrant would require probable cause etc.

This issues definitely requires a discussion to approach this in responsible way.

 

[Mr. Donahue]

They create the problem. Then they say we have a problem. Then they say okay we're going to do "this" to help fix the problem we have but in actuality it's going to help make the problem easier to commit and pose as a solution or effort to fix the problem.

 

[bretm]

I'm with Apple about this. Whist I agree law enforement and intelligence services should have acces to criminal and terrorist entities, however, complete, unfettered and total access to everyone's emails, calls, data troubles me.

They're not criminal until proven they're criminal. So saying we only want access to criminals phones makes absolutely no sense. I don't have a problem with a judge giving a warrant demanding someone share the contents of he deems there is just cause. And if you don't provide your password the you're in contempt. But they shouldn't have built in access. Think of reporters that need to protect a source. Sometimes info needs to be protected and that can only be deemed by the one holding the info. Not by someone that THINKS they need the info. That's where judges and contempt comes into play.

 

[Jimmy James]

Paper should be embedded with scan and transmit technology. It's disturbingly secure right now. I'm sure the government is aware of the imminent threat hard copy documents present.

Push for the release of PISS (Paper Industry Surveillance Standards).

 

[bretm]

I'm torn on this issue - clearly if you are a BAD guy doing horrible ****, such encription it's your best friend.
Think i would be ok - IF company ONLY can decrypt such device AFTER court order etc. - same procedure as house warrant would require probable cause etc.

This issues definitely requires a discussion to approach this in responsible way.

Yeah, but pretty easy for govt to approach the person with the key to the back door and threaten IRS audits or the like to get them to open the door for them. They do it every day to employers to get them to garnish wages for taxes owed without any sort of court order or judgement. So no back door, no problem.

 

[2010mini]

New York and cali, the two most effed up lib states, go figure. Liberalism is a mental illness.
God bless Texas!!

I see you have fully bought into the notion that this is a liberal vs Conservative issue. Even lovely Texas has over reaching Gov't issues.
[doublepost=1453424181][/doublepost]

It is very difficult to trust the current administration.

Current???? Please tell me what the last trust worthy administration in the US was?

 

[kildraik]

Yeah but they won't let you or me in. They are smarter than to let outsiders come in and change their culture and laws.

I'd be right behind you. I hear the "socialist" Scandinavian countries have a very rich and vibrant entrepreneur community.

I honestly don't think Scandanavian countries are on most minds. They'd think Italy, Spain, some other country in the economic crapper because they've watched the "travel channel," and they "heard it's amazing," and they wouldn't know any better because the general populous is uninformed!

Albeit, sooner than later is always best... Beat the sheep... Bounce when you cut the right mix... Command+Shift+Q the USA. I can't wait to live in a country where it's illegal to advertise prescriptions, and where eating fast food is as shameful as paedophilia!

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

I hope that if this passes, the scumbag politicians backing it are the first ones to get their precious back doors hacked and that their secret craigslist m4m postings and dick pics are exposed for the all of the internet to see!

Don't know why that was funny, but it I LOL.

 

[JamesPDX]

And so it begins.

 

[tampageek]

First it was terrorism. Now it's human trafficking. What will be the next lame excuse to claim that spying on everyone is the ONLY way to "keep us safe." There will always be bad guys. Creating back doors will not stop them and I'm willing to bet that law enforcement knows this. Now that I think of it, there might even be some law enforcement people that aren't such "good guys."

There is something very sleazy about the very nature of spying on an entire population that should invoke more fear than whatever they're trying to "protect" us from.

 

[jdoll021]

Yeah but they won't let you or me in. They are smarter than to let outsiders come in and change their culture and laws.

Actually, they will. As I understand it, they actually enjoy having people from broad and diverse cultures come and live in their countries and I think they also know it is their culture and laws that attract ex-pats in the first place.

The website I've included below is a Danish website dedicated to attracting folks from abroad and helping them get adjusted to the Danish culture and way of life...

http://international.kk.dk/

 

[Peepo]

IOS 11 will have hooks/APIs for 3rd party encryption of the filesystem/data on the iPhone then. Therefore Apple could technically "decrypt" a stock iPhone but all they would see upon their "decryption" is a bunch of user encrypted data.

But technically isn't an iPhone unencrypted by default? Isn't it is the end user, by entering a passcode, who enables the encryption?

And finally, if it is known that someone other than yourself can decrypt the contents of your phone, then they (or someone else) can also technically place incriminating information on your phone. As soon as it is public knowledge that there is a back door, this weakens the entire system altogether. Considering the nature of digital information that can be copied/duplicated 100%, would such evidence from a phone then have reasonable doubt?

 

[joecool99]

They create the problem. Then they say we have a problem. Then they say okay we're going to do "this" to help fix the problem we have but in actuality it's going to help make the problem easier to commit and pose as a solution or effort to fix the problem.

what the hell is "they" and the "problem" ?

 

[techwhiz]

If they think that by making it easy for the police to decrypt or look at secure data they will be preventing crime they are mistaken. Criminals will just buy phones from another part of the world and drop a SIM card in it. They will find another form of communication and/or encode their communication.

Now the irony is that SHA256 was designed by the NSA -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHA-2.
They built is so that it could not be decrypted by an unknown entity.
The NSA worked with General Dynamics and Samsung to help develop KNOX and encrypted, secure devices.

How will they prevent someone that want's a secure device from coming along and adding CM12 with encryption, etc on an Android device? They cat has long been out of the bag with encryption.

When NeXT hired a bunch of math people and developed an elliptic encryption algorithm, that the NSA couldn't crack they went nuts.

Just remember all this stuff, whether it be back doors in communication, free speech limitations or gun control, is to save the kids. It's for the kids.........

 

[tampageek]

This will end up at the Supreme Court.

The same Supreme Court that gave us legalized political bribery - AKA Citizens United. Wow that is scary
[doublepost=1453425460][/doublepost]

No matter where you stand on the issue, the writing is on the wall. We are one media-glorified human trafficking story away from the sheeple running to the voting booth in fear. It's inevitable. There will be no privacy in the future.
[doublepost=1453423049][/doublepost]

Oh, this is inevitable. Most people don't really understand the issue, much less the tech, so they will vote from a fear-based point of view.

It's easy to scare morons. Just look at who they keep electing.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

There are pros and cons for both side. Good debate

No, there aren't.

There's no way to give one person access to all devices without giving all people access to all devices.

Have you taken any classes in cyber security or cryptography? Trick question - it's obvious you either haven't or flunked. Please shut up and listen to the people who have (the people at Apple, Microsoft, Google, IBM, me, plenty of other people on these forums, etc.)

If you don't mind the idea of having a back door, then why bother with security at all? Just disable Touch ID and your passcode on all your devices. Post what your password here for everyone to see.

While you're at it, unlock your doors and windows. Leave the safe open. Leave your key in the ignition and your car unlocked. In this world where your phone controls progressively more, putting a back door in phones is the same thing for a growing number of people.

 

[Glideslope]

I'd rather not have technology reviewed by a group of people who have barely ever used a computer. Let alone actually understand any of the issues with it.

Neither would I. However, there will be no other way to settle this in the near future. So, what if you purchase your iPhone in Texas, on Verizon and live in NY, would you need a Texas residence, a PO Box?

What are Apple and Android going to do? Have iOS 11, iOS 11NY, and iOS 11CA? I could see Apple developing a Public OS like the current one, and an Enterprise/Defense iOS with a Back Door.

In the end we elect these idiots. No one to blame but ourselves.

 

[Starflyer]

Nothing trumps due process.

Unless your name is added to a list and they decide to take your 2A rights away.

 

[pat500000]

I'm sure Apple can "convince" politicians to overturn their decision on the bill issue.

 

[tampageek]

Guns are also used to commit crimes and hurt people - but I don't see much legislation designed to "protect us" from them. Quite the opposite. Even known terrorists are not banned from buying guns in America.

 

[macduke]

I don't usually follow people on here, but I'm going to start following those of you who are privacy advocates and against this type of BS. We must stand together. It's good to know who I can trust. I wish I could put "patriot" badges by your names. But unfortunately even a word like patriot has been bastardized since 911.

I don't have much to say about this topic that hasn't been said, but yeah, it's a load of garbage. I'll throw money at Apple as long as they fight the good fight. The day they remove encryption is the day that I stop updating my software forever. Although it will probably be forced somehow—perhaps by disallowing internet connectivity. Oh well, I always wanted to connect with nature, lol. Maybe there will be a jailbreak "hack" that enables encryption. And maybe this jailbreak "hack" was somehow accidentally leaked from Apple. Maybe this "hack" uses the back door to install itself and close the vulnerability. That would be pretty hilarious.

That actually really drives home how stupid they are to me. Any vulnerability means that you could get in there and install something else. Basically all bad guys could just install their own encryption by taking advantage of the weakened system. Legislators are so incredibly stupid. Computers only know logic and legislators have none.

 

[tampageek]

If they think that by making it easy for the police to decrypt or look at secure data they will be preventing crime they are mistaken. Criminals will just buy phones from another part of the world and drop a SIM card in it. They will find another form of communication and/or encode their communication.

Now the irony is that SHA256 was designed by the NSA -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHA-2.
They built is so that it could not be decrypted by an unknown entity.
The NSA worked with General Dynamics and Samsung to help develop KNOX and encrypted, secure devices.

How will they prevent someone that want's a secure device from coming along and adding CM12 with encryption, etc on an Android device? They cat has long been out of the bag with encryption.

When NeXT hired a bunch of math people and developed an elliptic encryption algorithm, that the NSA couldn't crack they went nuts.

Just remember all this stuff, whether it be back doors in communication, free speech limitations or gun control, is to save the kids. It's for the kids.........