Can I just point something out?

[sqa4life]

Can I just point out that I'm considering buying the 13" for $100 more after today's announcement and I'm a photographer and technologist professionally. The screen real estate will be much more noticeable than the quality change. The hey Siri without being plugged in is available on other devices like the iPhone 6s+ and the echo is doing home automation. I just don't feel hey Siri is a selling point particularly. If my iOS device is down for a period of time it's in a dock. Where they all do this, recent ones at least.

The annoying thing to me is the new one having much slower transfer speeds for the camera something they shouldn't have left out. I really don't think,side by side you'd notice much between the screens I'd the two pro iPads. Even with the ambient sensing on. And I use that technology every day wi a spyder calibrator.

I just picked up the 13" pro 128gb last night from BB for 700 bucks OTD. It was an opened box Greek squad certified. In new condition. Very happy with it so far.
Agreed with you, the 9.7" is a little too small if you need/want to turn the iPad Pro into a laptop.

 

[Macalway]

the extreme anger is bizarre

"I'm furious with Apple". My God what a nut house.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I bought the 12.9" iPad and if I was buying one today, I'd still get the 12.9" iPad. For me, the bigger screen is the single biggest reason I got the iPad Pro and it's a brilliant device for my needs.

Unfortunately, it seems some people get upset if Apple introduce anything new because it somehow invalidates their bragging rights

This.
[doublepost=1458661596][/doublepost]

The two iPP give a slightly different user experience in real world - they are not competing with each other - it's like the difference between 13" and 15" Mbpr. Next time the iPP 13" II will outperform the now 10". That's how things work. The current product line of Apple is indeed pretty messy nonetheless.

What they have done wrong, or could much better, is the 256 GB 13" iPP. The existence of top storage model should have released last September. One upgrade for each product per year.

These arguments don't make any sense to me. If a tech company has the ability to put out a better product in a few months. Just do it. It doesn't change what I bought a few months before. It is just so foreign to me. Why be limited to one upgrade per year?

 

[ZenThought]

These arguments don't make any sense to me. If a tech company has the ability to put out a better product in a few months. Just do it. It doesn't change what I bought a few months before. It is just so foreign to me. Why be limited to one upgrade per year?

Because people want to own the newest thing for more then 4 months, which ... I think is acceptable and rational, especially when they paid a premium price for it AND, in a lot of cases, they already own a previous dated version of the product and the new purchase is an upgrade. This isn't hard to figure out, and its not wrong or irrational to feel, especially when choking out A LOT of money for these products. Its not always about ego, or showing off, or keeping up with the jonses.

Its about the psychological value in your purchase. I spend ____ amount, I get _____ product, AND .... the most current up to date VERSION of that product WHICH has a value. People are not only willing to pay ______ amount for get the physical product .... part of the worth of that price, psychologically, is owning the new item, where no other better item of the same product exist. Thats ... is also included in the value of the product and contributes to the willingness to buy the product.

This is why, when a product becomes dated ... it lowers in price (most of the time in general). Because it no longer has THE VALUE associated of being ... the new, best one anymore. These generation old products have already been produced and manufactured (in most cases). The cost didn't change to make them. Even if they are still being produced, the cost probably hasn't gone up, and more then likely (in 1 year time) hasn't decreased that much. Truth be told, these parts are probably already paid for, being bought in bulk. So ... everything is still equal. Yet, the price goes down. The parts didn't go down, they are already paid for. The manufacturing didn't go down.

what went down?

THE VALUE. its old. This is then, relfected in the price... just like, the fact that a new product is NEW is ... reflected in THAT price. So when you say "It doesn't change what I bought a few months before." that is actually incorrect. It does. It changes the psychological value of the purchase, and a lot of people are willing for that to change in a year time, but not in 4 months.

but lets be honest here, there are a lot of straw man arguments about this issue . People are mad for 2 main reasons and these reasons are being gently skipped over because the straw man arguments are easier to mock.

1) They bought the Ipad Pro because of specs and features... but really didn't want the big screen and would of waited and bought the 9.7 Pro is they knew it was going to be available in 4 months. It was assumed that the screen size seperated the Pro specs from the Air specs hence the term PRO. Even this board claimed Apple would never blur product lines and put Pro features in a 9.7. How can anyone be told that they should of waited for the eventual next version when most of the board didn't think it was going to happen to begin with?

and 2) 4 months later, the Ipad Pro got a new storage option that they would of rather bought previously.

These are rational reasons to be aggravated. Legitimate reasons.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Because people want to own the newest thing for more then 4 months, which ... I think is acceptable and rational, especially when they paid a premium price for it AND, in a lot of cases, they already own a previous dated version of the product and the new purchase is an upgrade. This isn't hard to figure out, and its not wrong or irrational to feel, especially when choking out A LOT of money for these products. Its not always about ego, or showing off, or keeping up with the jonses.

Its about the psychological value in your purchase. I spend ____ amount, I get _____ product, AND .... the most current up to date VERSION of that product WHICH has a value. People are not only willing to pay ______ amount for get the physical product .... part of the worth of that price, psychologically, is owning the new item, where no other better item of the same product exist. Thats ... is also included in the value of the product and contributes to the willingness to buy the product.

This is why, when a product becomes dated ... it lowers in price (most of the time in general). Because it no longer has THE VALUE associated of being ... the new, best one anymore. These generation old products have already been produced and manufactured (in most cases). The cost didn't change to make them. Even if they are still being produced, the cost probably hasn't gone up, and more then likely (in 1 year time) hasn't decreased that much. Truth be told, these parts are probably already paid for, being bought in bulk. So ... everything is still equal. Yet, the price goes down. The parts didn't go down, they are already paid for. The manufacturing didn't go down.

what went down?

THE VALUE. its old. This is then, relfected in the price... just like, the fact that a new product is NEW is ... reflected in THAT price. So when you say "It doesn't change what I bought a few months before." that is actually incorrect. It does. It changes the psychological value of the purchase, and a lot of people are willing for that to change in a year time, but not in 4 months.

but lets be honest here, there are a lot of straw man arguments about this issue . People are mad for 2 main reasons and these reasons are being gently skipped over because the straw man arguments are easier to mock.

1) They bought the Ipad Pro because of specs and features... but really didn't want the big screen and would of waited and bought the 9.7 Pro is they knew it was going to be available in 4 months.

and 2) 4 months later, the Ipad Pro got a new storage option that they would of rather bought previously.

These are rational reasons to be aggravated. Legitimate reasons.

First of all, it appears that there is less CPU and graphics power in the 9.7" version, so it isn't outdated. If someone is that obsessed about screen size, then sell your 12.9" version and downgrade to the other option.

As to the rest of that? Then people are placing WAY too much subjective value on a tool. I guess we will have to agree to disagree because I just don't understand it. I have bought Surface Pros and MacBooks, and iPads and never once believed in the Psychological value of the tool.

Does it do what I need? Then great! Otherwise, upgrade!

 

[masotime]

As to the rest of that? Then people are placing WAY too much subjective value on a tool. I guess we will have to agree to disagree because I just don't understand it. I have bought Surface Pros and MacBooks, and iPads and never once believed in the Psychological value of the tool.

Does it do what I need? Then great! Otherwise, upgrade!

Here's an analogy:

Telsa launches an electric vehicle that has a 100 mile range. You love the power and handling of the car and the fuel economy, but you find the 100 mile range somewhat annoying, but not a deal breaker. You buy it.

4 months later, Tesla launches the exact same vehicle with a 200 mile range for slightly more, something you could have afforded a few months ago and fits your needs that much better.

The vehicle you now own has lost 35% of its market value.

How do you feel....?

 

[eltoslightfoot]

That example isn't quite accurate to this situation. It would more be like the car is smaller and has shorter range, but is cheaper.
[doublepost=1458675415][/doublepost]Either way, I sure wouldn't blame Tesla and pout. Even in your example. I would take the hit and buy the better car.
[doublepost=1458675476][/doublepost]And I still wouldn't have poured some self-worth into the device. I would see it as a car. But perhaps I am the wrong guy for this analogy. My cars are old and paid for LOL. My tech habit? That is a bigger issue.

 

[masotime]

That example isn't quite accurate to this situation. It would more be like the car is smaller and has shorter range, but is cheaper.

The smaller car which has shorter range but is cheaper - you're using that as the analogy for the 128GB 12.9" or the 9.7" Pro in general? I'm personally fine with the 9.7" Pro - it is essentially the successor to the iPad Air 2... different category.

The 256GB iPad Pro 12.9" is pretty much identical to the 128GB though except for the "mileage" metric in my analogy.

Either way, I sure wouldn't blame Tesla and pout. Even in your example. I would take the hit and buy the better car.

Well how people react is very subjective. Some might just take the hit, some might just let it be, others will rage and hate Apple for a while (this is probably the worst reaction). But you can see how it can feel justifiably annoying to many people?

And I still wouldn't have poured some self-worth into the device. I would see it as a car. But perhaps I am the wrong guy for this analogy. My cars are old and paid for LOL. My tech habit? That is a bigger issue.

Ok I don't know about self-worth - I wasn't really following the whole argument about the "psychological value". I guess what I wanted to say is that there is definite justification in feeling annoyed by it. I've actually kind of stopped being bothered by it, but I still remain sympathetic to the early adopters.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Try getting an EXOPC and trying to make it work. LOL. Now that is early adopter pain.
[doublepost=1458677343][/doublepost]And thank you for helping me to understand some. I really have a hard time getting it.
[doublepost=1458677429][/doublepost]I also agree with you on the apples to apples (128 to 256), and that does make a little more sense. But most people (in your analogy) drive WAY less than 100 miles--much less 200.

 

[masotime]

I also agree with you on the apples to apples (128 to 256), and that does make a little more sense. But most people (in your analogy) drive WAY less than 100 miles--much less 200.

Yes, this analogy probably also applies to 128GB v 256GB. I suspect even for the iPad Pro, there are many who will not really need the 256GB. Depends very much on the use case.

I just happen to be one of those people who often drives 100+ miles

 

[bufffilm]

This is exactly why I did not purchase the 13" model. I knew there would be a smaller IPP soon enough (okay, I didn't know for sure, but I had a very good feeling about it) and that's what I really wanted in the first place. So I'm very excited for this. It's unfortunate that some people feel "punked", but can you really say you didn't see this coming? I certainly did, and I'm nothing special.

Except this pro 9.7" w/pencil isn't quite the 12.9" shrunk down.

W/only 2gb of RAM...I would be very hesitant of buying this to pair with the pencil.

 

[burgman]

I think if the smaller ipad pro had the exact same specs as the larger ipad pro but smaller , people wouldn't be so unhappy. ..some of us techies buy devices because we want the latest and greatest and trust me we do not buy the latest and greatest to be disenfranchised 4 months later......

You must hate Android then.
[doublepost=1458681348][/doublepost]

This is exactly why I did not purchase the 13" model. I knew there would be a smaller IPP soon enough (okay, I didn't know for sure, but I had a very good feeling about it) and that's what I really wanted in the first place. So I'm very excited for this. It's unfortunate that some people feel "punked", but can you really say you didn't see this coming? I certainly did, and I'm nothing special.

Not much of an upgrade USB 2, 2GB ram. I'm still happy with my IPP purchase.

 

[MartyCan]

Because people want to own the newest thing for more then 4 months, which ... I think is acceptable and rational, especially when they paid a premium price for it AND, in a lot of cases, they already own a previous dated version of the product and the new purchase is an upgrade. This isn't hard to figure out, and its not wrong or irrational to feel, especially when choking out A LOT of money for these products. Its not always about ego, or showing off, or keeping up with the jonses.

Its about the psychological value in your purchase. I spend ____ amount, I get _____ product, AND .... the most current up to date VERSION of that product WHICH has a value. People are not only willing to pay ______ amount for get the physical product .... part of the worth of that price, psychologically, is owning the new item, where no other better item of the same product exist. Thats ... is also included in the value of the product and contributes to the willingness to buy the product.

This is why, when a product becomes dated ... it lowers in price (most of the time in general). Because it no longer has THE VALUE associated of being ... the new, best one anymore. These generation old products have already been produced and manufactured (in most cases). The cost didn't change to make them. Even if they are still being produced, the cost probably hasn't gone up, and more then likely (in 1 year time) hasn't decreased that much. Truth be told, these parts are probably already paid for, being bought in bulk. So ... everything is still equal. Yet, the price goes down. The parts didn't go down, they are already paid for. The manufacturing didn't go down.

what went down?

THE VALUE. its old. This is then, relfected in the price... just like, the fact that a new product is NEW is ... reflected in THAT price. So when you say "It doesn't change what I bought a few months before." that is actually incorrect. It does. It changes the psychological value of the purchase, and a lot of people are willing for that to change in a year time, but not in 4 months.

but lets be honest here, there are a lot of straw man arguments about this issue . People are mad for 2 main reasons and these reasons are being gently skipped over because the straw man arguments are easier to mock.

1) They bought the Ipad Pro because of specs and features... but really didn't want the big screen and would of waited and bought the 9.7 Pro is they knew it was going to be available in 4 months. It was assumed that the screen size seperated the Pro specs from the Air specs hence the term PRO. Even this board claimed Apple would never blur product lines and put Pro features in a 9.7. How can anyone be told that they should of waited for the eventual next version when most of the board didn't think it was going to happen to begin with?

and 2) 4 months later, the Ipad Pro got a new storage option that they would of rather bought previously.

These are rational reasons to be aggravated. Legitimate reasons.

The industry moves considerably faster than that. If you put out a device today your competitors will match or better it within months so just to keep up you need to do the same. Pretty hard to blame Apple for this. Frustrating, yes but it is driven by the Industry and not just Apple.

 

[TheGdog]

I have to admit, one good argument I heard was storage. I could understand it being frustrating that apple came out with a 256gb option several months after releasing it. I actually understand that. Good point.

However, the anger? Man, There are many things to be justly angry about in life. An iPad that you will forget about in 5 years isn't.

But yeah, the storage thing?? Y'all make a point.

 

[Melrose]

Yup, although the reports suggest that the chips needed for 256GB became available between the Sept announcement and now. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some folks as frustrated in Apple as some of us are with Apple on that front. I mostly only need 64GB storage, so I don't really have a dog in this particular fight.

And here's the thing, I'm not interested in the "upgrades" the 9.7" got over the the larger Pro either. But, I get to put up with a camera hump if I want a 9.7" Pro (which I do). Thanks, Apple. I may play with the TrueTone feature, but I suspect I'll turn it off at some point.

While I have no specific use, or "Tech Addiction" problem that would prompt me to buy either of the Pro models, I simply don't believe in buying backwards when it comes to technology. The features in the Pro are going to trickle down sooner than you think, and I'd rather spend the extra $100 now, especially considering it's entering at a comparable memory/price balance as the old Air 2.

 

[Krevnik]

While I have no specific use, or "Tech Addiction" problem that would prompt me to buy either of the Pro models, I simply don't believe in buying backwards when it comes to technology. The features in the Pro are going to trickle down sooner than you think, and I'd rather spend the extra $100 now, especially considering it's entering at a comparable memory/price balance as the old Air 2.

Except, it isn't an "extra 100$" now. It is 200$.

I'm already buying the 9.7" Pro since I mostly just wanted an iPad with Pencil at ~10". But if it wasn't for that, I'd be keeping the Air 2 for a while. I agree with other posters that have said this thing is another iPad 2. It's going to have a longer life than folks expect.

 

[Melrose]

Except, it isn't an "extra 100$" now. It is 200$.

I'm already buying the 9.7" Pro since I mostly just wanted an iPad with Pencil at ~10". But if it wasn't for that, I'd be keeping the Air 2 for a while. I agree with other posters that have said this thing is another iPad 2. It's going to have a longer life than folks expect.

Thanks for the price detail - I didn't bother checking differences on the Air 2 or Pro Jr. because I already know what I'll get and I don't care about the moderate price difference. In my mind, the 32gb makes it about even.

 

[Traverse]

There's a kind of feeling of entitlement for being a early adopter. I have these feelings myself, but my annoyance is more for the 256GB option rather than the 9.7" iPad Pro being "better".

I plan to buy the smaller iPad Pro regardless - I sold my iPad Air 2 for this purpose, but I'm going to wait a while to get a better deal - I don't really see an advantage of being amongst the first customers in this case.

I'm in the same boat, but I never realized how much I used my iPad until I didn't have it.

I'd like to wait a little while in hopes of a $100 off Best Buy deal, but even more so to let the first batch be realize and any issue worked out.
[doublepost=1458705576][/doublepost]

I'm glad they did what they did today. We need to have something good for people who want a smaller device. The fact that their screen has newer technology just shows me what I'm getting in the future.

And that makes me happy.

I don't really get why people get pissed when Apple releases new stuff, especially when we knew it was coming.

I think the iPad 3 to iPad 4 in six months was the exception. No one saw the coming and it as an indirect confession that the iPad 3 was insufficient.
[doublepost=1458705725][/doublepost]

In summary I think it would have made much more sense for Apple to come out with the 9.7 Pro on the same day as the 12 inch model, because many people only bought it for some features that just a few months ago Apple announced as exclusives, so I don't think this was fair with loyal customers like me.

I agree, but they didn't. Wether it was to promote the 13" sales or the new screen technology wasn't coming in large enough yields we don't know.

But the difference is that the 13" Pro was a separate product line and now they've updated the other. We saw it coming. Had they released a new 13" Pro just 6 months after the first Pro than I would be angry.

 

[ThisBougieLife]

The 9.7" is now reported to have only 2 GB of RAM and an underclocked processor--does that make 12.9" owners feel better? lol

It certainly made me feel worse

 

[Traverse]

Except this pro 9.7" w/pencil isn't quite the 12.9" shrunk down.

W/only 2gb of RAM...I would be very hesitant of buying this to pair with the pencil.

You must hate Android then.
[doublepost=1458681348][/doublepost]
Not much of an upgrade USB 2, 2GB ram. I'm still happy with my IPP purchase.

The 9.7" is now reported to have only 2 GB of RAM and an underclocked processor--does that make 12.9" owners feel better? lol

It certainly made me feel worse

To sum: OS X can operating on 2GB of RAM, so how much better should the lightweight iOS runoff 2GB? The iPhone just got 2GB of RAM and their mainstream iPad sizes all use 2GB. The 2GB RAM is here to stay and I don't think these devices will suffer. The 13" Pro does get 4GB which would be nice, but they need to give it something besides the screen size.

Just because their one niche iPad has 4GB of RAM doesn't mean the rest of the line is doomed to oblivion within one or two iOS updates. The Air 2 (with 2GB of RAM) was considered insanely overpowered and the next long lived iPad 2 and now all of a sudden an iPad with the same RAM but twice the CPU/GPU is inadequate?

I'm not supporting Apple, but this RAM issue is way overblown.

 

[bufffilm]

To sum: OS X can operating on 2GB of RAM, so how much better should the lightweight iOS runoff 2GB? The iPhone just got 2GB of RAM and their mainstream iPad sizes all use 2GB. The 2GB RAM is here to stay and I don't think these devices will suffer. The 13" Pro does get 4GB which would be nice, but they need to give it something besides the screen size.

Just because their one niche iPad has 4GB of RAM doesn't mean the rest of the line is doomed to oblivion within one or two iOS updates. The Air 2 (with 2GB of RAM) was considered insanely overpowered and the next long lived iPad 2 and now all of a sudden an iPad with the same RAM but twice the CPU/GPU is inadequate?

I'm not supporting Apple, but this RAM issue is way overblown.

You're free to believe what you want to believe.

Would it was been ruinous if Apple had put 4gb RAM in the Pro 9.7?

I think not.

 

[nalbagli]

I am really having trouble deciding what to do, the 9.7' IPP with pencil was what I needed all the way and for my uses even though I do like the extra screen the 12' IPP ends up being just too big and heavy for me. I was planning on selling my pro and go for the new one, but here in my country it seems it's not easy to resell the Pro which is strange due to the fact that I usually resell used apple products all the times and really fast. Now I'm stuck I want the smaller version but not if I have to put extra money to get it

 

[Traverse]

You're free to believe what you want to believe.

Would it was been ruinous if Apple had put 4gb RAM in the Pro 9.7?

I think not.

Have I implied that it would be? I believe I've stated outright that Apple should have done that and that it was a cheap shot by them. 4GB is more future proof, but I don't think 2GB is detrimental. I think this iPad will be good for years.

 

[masotime]

The 9.7" is now reported to have only 2 GB of RAM and an underclocked processor--does that make 12.9" owners feel better? lol

It certainly made me feel worse

I don't really care honestly. I'm buying it anyway, but I don't consider the 9.7" in the same class as the 12.9". The handling of both is vastly different - trying to hold the 12.9" in portrait is not something you want to do for extended periods. Even charging the 12.9" is slow and painful. I can't understand why Apple didn't equip it with 4GB, but I really look at it more as an iPad Air 3 rather than a iPad Pro "mini".

I mean even the smaller smart keyboard - it's not going to be as comfortable to use as the larger one for the 12.9", and you have significantly less surface area to write with using the Pencil.

I am really having trouble deciding what to do, the 9.7' IPP with pencil was what I needed all the way and for my uses even though I do like the extra screen the 12' IPP ends up being just too big and heavy for me. I was planning on selling my pro and go for the new one, but here in my country it seems it's not easy to resell the Pro which is strange due to the fact that I usually resell used apple products all the times and really fast. Now I'm stuck I want the smaller version but not if I have to put extra money to get it

The solution is simple - wait for the 9.7" iPP to drop in price the same way the 12.9" has, then when you sell the 12.9" to trade for the 9.7", your "loss" is significantly less. Just imagine that Apple launched it later at a lower price point. It's the same difference.

 

[Koobs]

A simple solution for all the upset 12.9 owners. Put it on eBay and grab the 9.7. Problem solved.