Can iTunes suck anymore than it already does?

[Alrescha]

But I'm glad it's working well for you. For the most part, it's been exceptional for me too, but sometimes it just goes tits up...

Make no mistake, I have my share of complaints about iTunes. I am a bit mystified when people say that it messed with their files (as opposed to messing up its own database). When I look at my music files in Finder, the "last modified" dates are years in the past.

I recently took advantage of the limit increase for iTunes Match - I had iTunes re-import my entire music collection. It correctly ignored all the previously-imported material, added all the new material, and shipped a ton of unmatchable songs up to the cloud (1). After all that, I randomly checked the last-modified dates of my old material and they are from 2005-2006 as I would expect.

I do not use Apple Music, so it is possible there is something going on with that.

A.

(1) Shipping unmatched files up to the cloud was a fiasco. iTunes maxed out my upload capacity to the point where it broke its own connection to the iTunes store. The end result was that it would upload a few files, break, sit around for a long while, then upload some more. I had to install my own rate-limiter to keep iTunes from hurting itself. Otherwise, it would have taken months to upload the unmatched files. (talk about old bugs needing to be fixed!).

 

[26139]

Having a limit of five devices is ridiculous in this day and age. Someone can easily exceed that limit with a MacPro, 2 iMacs, 2 MacBook Pros, iPhone, iPad, and then what? No music server, nothing, and two used devices without an iTunes music 'license'...

Patches? I wonder how many times iTunes has been rewritten. Apple, through their acquisition if Next, proved that you can 'patch' something and turn it into something else. I wonder if iTunes isn't the same 'kernel', with different shutters, doors, and plantings around the patio.

Regarding iTunes database, I have crashed the iTunes database several times. I have had to rebuild my iTunes collection several times, re-ripping each CD, one-by-one... For hours... And hours... I've had tracks disappear. I've had tracks refuse to import, like another thread in the iTunes section here.

It's rather stable, and I'm sure for the 'average user' it's just fine. I have gone in and edited the metadata through the iTunes 'Get Info' feature, and after this last major update, all of it disappeared. It *could* easily be more reliable IMO.

Is iTunes content 'protected' anymore? I don't know. I'd imagine that it's watermarked at some level, that wouldn't surprise me, but as far as DRM? Hmm... No idea. Still wouldn't surprise me if there were *something* there, but...

Still, I think iTunes, for the most part, is the best thing doing. Can it be better? I think yes. Could it be worse? It's getting there... The crazy stuff Apple has been doing to it is almost on the verge of criminal. They took an elegant sophisticated multimedia management package, and warped if into a bizarre experience from the user standpoint. It's also possible that it's just because I'm old, I have to volunteer that, but some younger people I know have complained about it getting mroe and more complex, and less and less 'intuitive'...

But you are free to disagree.

1. I will disagree. It's five computers and ten devices. More if you have a family account. Do you know a lot of people that personally use five computers and five iPads/iPhones/Touches? You could have a Mac Pro, iMac, MBA, MB, MBP, iPhone 6s, iPhone 6s Plus, iPad Pro, iPad Air, and an iPad Mini (wait a second...is that every standalone product that Apple makes? It sure is!) and you'd hit the limit perfectly. How have devices do you own?

2. iTunes is for average users, which is the vast majority of people. If you'd like a pro something, feel free to use something that's not free.

3. No, iTunes content isn't protected and it's super ignorant you haven't accepted this.

4. I'm still not sure what your actual complaints are, except that you have a big library?

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Make no mistake, I have my share of complaints about iTunes. I am a bit mystified when people say that it messed with their files (as opposed to messing up its own database).

You mistake my problem. The Sammy Hagar album entries in the database disappeared. The physical, so to speak, files

1. I will disagree. It's five computers and ten devices. More if you have a family account. Do you know a lot of people that personally use five computers and five iPads/iPhones/Touches? You could have a Mac Pro, iMac, MBA, MB, MBP, iPhone 6s, iPhone 6s Plus, iPad Pro, iPad Air, and an iPad Mini (wait a second...is that every standalone product that Apple makes? It sure is!) and you'd hit the limit perfectly. How have devices do you own?

2. iTunes is for average users, which is the vast majority of people. If you'd like a pro something, feel free to use something that's not free.

3. No, iTunes content isn't protected and it's super ignorant you haven't accepted this.

4. I'm still not sure what your actual complaints are, except that you have a big library?

You certainly have a dickish tone to your response. I'm sorry that I'm not worthy of respect.

1) I have, at last count seven 'computers' and 5 iDevices. It seems that I have hit the two computers that aren't 'authorized' a few times this week. Perhaps I'm expecting to much, but...

2) I hate being called average. Thanks. What's available that is a 'pro version' that would function just like iTunes? Is there a 'pro' version of iTunes? One with a more robust database? Has anyone thought of coming up with an open sourced version based on a better DB engine?

3) Did I say they were 'protected'? I said they were watermarked. I alluded to the possibility that iTunes gave a poop about the watermark, but I don't remember ever saying that they were 'protected'. At some level, though, what is the use of 'watermarking' the files if nothing cares about the watermark? I mean, really...

4) A library that has been rebuilt quite a few times, and seems to be temperamental, and rather ill-tempered at times to boot. iTunes GUI used to be so easy to use as well, everything on the one screen, everything close together for those with huge monitors, and then they had to change things. Why? Apparently because they could. There are many times that I have been frustrated by the issues I've had with iTunes. To suggest I should just live with them is somewhat true, but disrespectful also. I'm not ignorant, dammit, just because I have had issues with iTunes, and am not 100% in love with it due to the back of the curtain issues I and many others have encountered!

 

[26139]

You mistake my problem. The Sammy Hagar album entries in the database disappeared. The physical, so to speak, files


You certainly have a dickish tone to your response. I'm sorry that I'm not worthy of respect.

1) I have, at last count seven 'computers' and 5 iDevices. It seems that I have hit the two computers that aren't 'authorized' a few times this week. Perhaps I'm expecting to much, but...

2) I hate being called average. Thanks. What's available that is a 'pro version' that would function just like iTunes? Is there a 'pro' version of iTunes? One with a more robust database? Has anyone thought of coming up with an open sourced version based on a better DB engine?

3) Did I say they were 'protected'? I said they were watermarked. I alluded to the possibility that iTunes gave a poop about the watermark, but I don't remember ever saying that they were 'protected'. At some level, though, what is the use of 'watermarking' the files if nothing cares about the watermark? I mean, really...

4) A library that has been rebuilt quite a few times, and seems to be temperamental, and rather ill-tempered at times to boot. iTunes GUI used to be so easy to use as well, everything on the one screen, everything close together for those with huge monitors, and then they had to change things. Why? Apparently because they could. There are many times that I have been frustrated by the issues I've had with iTunes. To suggest I should just live with them is somewhat true, but disrespectful also. I'm not ignorant, dammit, just because I have had issues with iTunes, and am not 100% in love with it due to the back of the curtain issues I and many others have encountered!

I appreciate you pointing out my dickishness. Sorry my contempt for your reasoning (though not you) is so blatant.

1. You are expecting too much. A minutely small minority of computer users have more than two devices, let alone 12.

2. Why don't you build it instead of making no progress by complaining about it? "Anyone" could be you, and since you're not average, go to it.

3. ...who cares? How does this affect your usage?

4. Yes, large, ever-changing databases often have to rebuilt. This is how code works.

 

[Alrescha]

You mistake my problem. The Sammy Hagar album entries in the database disappeared. The physical, so to speak, files

I think I understand: you lost actual music files? That is why I replied, since (to the best of my knowledge!) iTunes has never deleted any of my files, nor even changed them in any way (unless I manually edit the metadata). Since iTunes does not appear to ever touch my music files at all, it is hard to understand how they would get deleted.

A terminology thought: iTunes keeps its database of information about music in a single file called "iTunes Library.itl", and a lot of people refer to this as the iTunes database as opposed to the actual music files kept in the iTunes Media directory.

A.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I think I understand: you lost actual music files? That is why I replied, since (to the best of my knowledge!) iTunes has never deleted any of my files, nor even changed them in any way (unless I manually edit the metadata). Since iTunes does not appear to ever touch my music files at all, it is hard to understand how they would get deleted.

A terminology thought: iTunes keeps its database of information about music in a single file called "iTunes Library.itl", and a lot of people refer to this as the iTunes database as opposed to the actual music files kept in the iTunes Media directory.

A.

I knew that, the terminology. It's more like, for an example, the FAT in MSDOS. It doesn't include the actual files in it, but links to where the file and its parts are spread around the hard drive.

I was really shocked when those tracks disappeared. It's not supposed to happen was all I kept thinking.

 

[Alrescha]

I knew that, the terminology. It's more like, for an example, the FAT in MSDOS. It doesn't include the actual files in it, but links to where the file and its parts are spread around the hard drive.

Yes, except when the iTunes database file gets corrupted you just recreate it - you don't lose your music

A.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Yes, except when the iTunes database file gets corrupted you just recreate it - you don't lose your music

A.

Well, that was the idea. Given that iTunes has the ability to move files into other folders, one has to wonder if iTunes has a 'FU' subscript that allows it to nuke files that it doesn't like, or something. I know that sounds a little paranoid, or something, but the files were NUKED, and the entries in the database were scrubbed.

That made the programmer in me a little nervous. 'So there is a way through 'tweaking' the entries in the 'database', to have the software just say, in effect 'F--- it' and nuke the files? When that happened, I was really freaked. I tried to recreate the process on another 'album' that I had in iTunes, but it didn't happen again, so I missed a step or something...

So, yeah, get caught messing with iTunes a little too much, and it slaps your hand, and nukes the files. I have to admit that I was really anal at the way the files were organized, and would make several edits in a row, so it is possible that iTunes, the program, got 'confused' with so many edits and that caused it to pull the eject lever...

But still...

To read where people declare their undying love and devotion to the iTunes ecosystem, and I want to say 'Hold on thar Wade'...

But after years of tweaking iTunes, I'm sure that it was a ticking time bomb, a picked scab, after so long... Like in Chicago, 'He had it coming... He only had himself to blame...', and I totally own that, but iTunes isn't a 'perfect' software system. Piss it off, and, poop happens...

 

[Alrescha]

Well, that was the idea. Given that iTunes has the ability to move files into other folders, one has to wonder if iTunes has a 'FU' subscript that allows it to nuke files that it doesn't like, or something.

You are right, at import time iTunes will optionally move files if you let it. Additionally, it will update the directory structure if you change the artist or album name. One can imagine that process going wrong. I do not think iTunes ever intentionally deletes a file - at most you can get it to throw things in the trash.

To read where people declare their undying love and devotion to the iTunes ecosystem

Well, to be honest I have never encountered such people. Certainly not on MacRumors. Nor have I ever encountered that oft-mentioned group of people who blindly buy every Apple product.

A.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Well, to be honest I have never encountered such people. Certainly not on MacRumors. Nor have I ever encountered that oft-mentioned group of people who blindly buy every Apple product.
A.

Yes, I'm sure not...

 

[priitv8]

You are right, at import time iTunes will optionally move files if you let it. Additionally, it will update the directory structure if you change the artist or album name. One can imagine that process going wrong. I do not think iTunes ever intentionally deletes a file - at most you can get it to throw things in the trash.

I'm totally with Alrescha in this. I've used iTunes to manage my media library (and I let it organise my media folders as well, I hate when the files are scattered around the disk god knows where) since 2009, and the only times It has deleted my file is when I specifically say it to delete one.
Even when removing anything from the library, it will double-confirm if the media file shall be removed as well.
Also, I can think of 2 recovery mechanisms provided by iTunes:
- the "Previous iTunes Libraries" contains backups of your previous library databases

- if your media folder is organised, just re-drop it onto iTunes icon (or add media via File menu), it will re-process your media folders and re-build the library. It will not create duplicates at it (if same file already was in your library). It will create duplicates, if there are duplicate media files on your disk. If your media contains all the metadata (mine does), then also you will not lose any of that. This works also if you don't let iTunes to organise your media folder, but in that case you will need to grab all your source locations together yourself and feed them to iTunes.

 

[Alrescha]

I let it organise my media folders as well, I hate when the files are scattered around the disk

Very early on I had a Finder window open for the media folder and was updating metadata in iTunes... In the Finder window I could see iTunes creating new directories, moving files, and *cleaning up old empty directories*. I was sold right then. No software I had ever encountered before (Windows) had ever cleaned up after itself.

A.

 

[Erdbeertorte]

3) Did I say they were 'protected'? I said they were watermarked. I alluded to the possibility that iTunes gave a poop about the watermark, but I don't remember ever saying that they were 'protected'. At some level, though, what is the use of 'watermarking' the files if nothing cares about the watermark? I mean, really..

You can just click on that to get a copy of a song without your Apple-ID in it:

You can even convert it to an MP3 if that is your choice for ripping CDs:

 

[George Dawes]

the pq on the latest d/l from itunes on movies is i have to say amazing

who needs blu ray ?

 

[priitv8]

who needs blu ray ?

I do. But these days only for 3D movies. Via aTV only OU- or SBS-3D goes, but I prefer the FullHD version of BD3D.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I'm totally with Alrescha in this. I've used iTunes to manage my media library (and I let it organise my media folders as well, I hate when the files are scattered around the disk god knows where) since 2009, and the only times It has deleted my file is when I specifically say it to delete one.
Even when removing anything from the library, it will double-confirm if the media file shall be removed as well.
Also, I can think of 2 recovery mechanisms provided by iTunes:
- the "Previous iTunes Libraries" contains backups of your previous library databases
View attachment 610598

My last post on my files disappearing in iTunes: I got no 'Are you sure that's what you want to do because most humans don't want that to happen', they just went *POOF*, and were gone after an edit. I posted a thread here about it, and shortly after that post, I started noticing duplicate podcasts, and I ended up doing a complete slash and burn and recreating the whole iTunes database from CD's and what I could fish off of the TimeCapsule. It took me three days to reload all of the CD's, and I found some were missing from the cases (nice) and was pleasantly surprised that iTunes/iCloud popped all of the purchased items in like magic, which it's supposed to do.

But that disappearing act only happened once, freaked me out, and hasn't happened since, although I do still have some duplicates in the podcast section which continue to surprise me, but I can live with them for the moment.

Since iTunes is 'The Only Show In Town', I have to learn to be 'nice' to it, so it doesn't freak out again. I have only done the slightest of edits of the metadata, like combining multiple CD sets into one entry in the list, de-compilationing stuff, and some minor editing of disc and track titles. I now always let some time pass between edits of the same track, and tracks in a disc entry that have been edited.

Once bitten, twice shy. We sing, we dance, we smash things...

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I have a thread that some might find interesting. Either way, perhaps some of you can help with this funky issue...

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/cant-get-three-tracks-to-import-into-itunes-all-others-imported-fine

 

[Alrescha]

Well, you should know better than to try and import Windows Media Audio files on your Mac...

On a different, sadder note, I am very sorry to read that the free iTunes Radio stations that come with iTunes Match are going away. It seems that starting next month, the only free radio station will be Beats 1.

iTunes Radio is/was? a nice feature of iTunes Match, and I used it all the time. I'm afraid it's time for me to use Match to upgrade the last of my songs to 256k and unsubscribe. I'm very bummed.

A.

 

[colodane]

On a different, sadder note, I am very sorry to read that the free iTunes Radio stations that come with iTunes Match are going away. It seems that starting next month, the only free radio station will be Beats 1.
A.

Is this just true for iTunes Match or will Radio be gone from all iTunes also? If so, I'm very unhappy, as 90% of my iTunes music usage is Radio. Do you have a link or reference to an Apple announcement?? Thanks.

 

[Alrescha]

Is this just true for iTunes Match or will Radio be gone from all iTunes also?

My interpretation is that iTunes Radio is going away. As I used that more than I took advantage of Match, I am pretty unhappy (ad-free iTunes Radio for $2/month was a good deal. Apple Music at $10/month - not so much).

The main MacRumors article is here:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-ending-ad-supported-itunes-radio-stations-at-end-of-january.1950799

A.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Well, you should know better than to try and import Windows Media Audio files on your Mac...

On a different, sadder note, I am very sorry to read that the free iTunes Radio stations that come with iTunes Match are going away. It seems that starting next month, the only free radio station will be Beats 1.

iTunes Radio is/was? a nice feature of iTunes Match, and I used it all the time. I'm afraid it's time for me to use Match to upgrade the last of my songs to 256k and unsubscribe. I'm very bummed.

A.

On the Mac, it imported all of the .wma files, except those two, three to begin with.

There has to be some kind of 'voodoo' that exists between the Mac and Windows versions of iTunes. Some 'lint' in the files or something...

 

[wingmanmac]

What stinks more than itunes? The music app on the idevices! And the photo app on os x. And imovie. Apple had it right with the scrollwheel on the ipods, now its a complete disaster with menys here and menys there, and nothing can be found. Its hard to understand how it went from (almost) perfect to utter garbage. I am also looking for alternatives to said apps on both IOS and OS X, but most apps have disease that they try to do everything and especially they HAS to be social at all costs. Regarding itunes, i think the best version UI wise was 5, after that its just clutter and adding more and more nonsence ( I want to listen to oldfashioned albums..) , or changing for the sake of change and even removing features and loosing the drag and drop (photo to imovie etc) ouch, so sad..

 

[FrancoisC]

the pq on the latest d/l from itunes on movies is i have to say amazing

who needs blu ray ?

The quality of iTunes movies is good, no question about it, but it's not even close to bluray quality, especially on big, professionally calibrated TV. When apple adopt a new codec (h.265 I guess) the gap is going to get smaller, as long as they don't use it only to get smaller files/downloads.

 

[Alrescha]

The quality of iTunes movies is good, no question about it, but it's not even close to bluray quality

I would say that the quality of iTunes movies is not close to the *potential* of Blu-Ray.

I have iTunes movies that are much better than their Blu-Ray counterparts, because somehow Apple managed to get at better source material. Blu-Ray is just as susceptible to 'Garbage In, Garbage Out' as anything else.

A.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

What stinks more than itunes? The music app on the idevices! And the photo app on os x. And imovie. Apple had it right with the scrollwheel on the ipods, now its a complete disaster with menys here and menys there, and nothing can be found. Its hard to understand how it went from (almost) perfect to utter garbage. I am also looking for alternatives to said apps on both IOS and OS X, but most apps have disease that they try to do everything and especially they HAS to be social at all costs. Regarding itunes, i think the best version UI wise was 5, after that its just clutter and adding more and more nonsence ( I want to listen to oldfashioned albums..) , or changing for the sake of change and even removing features and loosing the drag and drop (photo to imovie etc) ouch, so sad..

My biggest beef is that they moved 'shuffle' to an afterthought.

Before this latest 'update', I used to be able to go to the store, plug my earbuds in, hit the center button, and pick up in the song where I left if the last time, and it would SHUFFLE from there. As if magic... I didn't even have to look at, or wake up, the iPhone.

Now?

Not so much.

Shuffle is a 'function', not a feature. You can 'shuffle' in an album if you are in album view (implied), you shuffle songs only when in song view (implied). Plug in the earbuds, and hit the control and I get silence... I have to wake the iPhone up, enter the code, choose Music, etc... It shouldn't be that hard!

I want the 'feature' of plugging in the earbuds and hitting the control back. It's ridiculous to have to fiddle with the 'best music player system on the planet', especially when it worked flawlessly not that long ago.

Was that simplicity, that elegance, a mistake? Not a feature?
[doublepost=1453040451][/doublepost]

I would say that the quality of iTunes movies is not close to the *potential* of Blu-Ray.

I have iTunes movies that are much better than their Blu-Ray counterparts, because somehow Apple managed to get at better source material. Blu-Ray is just as susceptible to 'Garbage In, Garbage Out' as anything else.

A.

You *can* rip Blu-ray discs, and get very good resolutions but the cost is the size of the resulting ripped movies. They are HUGE because of the amount of data...