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Can we please remove the vote buttons?

Remove vote buttons?

  • Yes

    Votes: 219 29.3%

  • No

    Votes: 387 51.8%

  • Like Button Only

    Votes: 119 15.9%

  • Other

    Votes: 22 2.9%
  • Total voters
    747
Status
Not open for further replies.
SGMD1 said:
As I stated above, if someone has an opinion, they should use their words to articulate it.
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Honestly, I wish some people would not articulate their opinions on these forums. I'd prefer they just vote because they clog the forums with irritating worthless noise. ;)

What does a upvote/downvote on a tutorial thread signify? Does it mean the tutorial is accurate/inaccurate? Does it mean the voter likes/dislikes the OP? Does it mean something else?
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This isn't rocket science guy. It doesn't mean any of those things. It means they don't like YOUR post. That's it. It has nothing to do with the OP. It may or may not have something to do with accuracy. That's not the point. It's much simpler than that. It's a simple "Do you like what this person said?" question and the answer is YES or NO, not "maybe". Maybe is a no vote. WHY IS IRRELEVANT. IF they wanted to tell you why, they would have. Some people simply want to say "I agree" or "I disagree". Surely, you've seen these type of posts in other forums. "+1" and "I completely disagree." How are those different from a simple vote? The difference is I don't have to read pages and pages of them. ;)

We have no idea if they don't use their words. This isn't kindergarten.
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Given many of the posts on here, you could have fooled me. ;)

Because of one flawed feature? Use some common sense.
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You say it's flawed. Based on the votes here, you seem to be in the minority. ;)

I think the ONLY flaw is that it doesn't report total counts for up and down votes (i.e. tell you how many agree and disagree; instead it just cancels out votes which gives a skewed picture).

A downvote could mean that a.) the post is factually inaccurate, b.) the post is anti-Apple, c.) someone disagrees with the opinion presented, d.) someone doesn't like the person posting, e.) someone is trolling, etc.

Voting tells us absolutely nothing.
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How odd that it tells me something, then. Again, it's not rocket science. It means (for the last time), THEY DON'T LIKE YOUR POST. You, however, seem to want a detailed analysis of WHY they don't like your post but 99% of the time it's pretty obvious why people don't like it (e.g. If it's anti-Apple, that's why. If it expresses unpopular opinions, that's why. No further explanation is usually needed for most people).

rmwebs said:
Personally I hate the downvote system. Since it was added the MR forums have been a horrible place with a hell of a lot of trolling.
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Are you saying the votes are trolling (I'd say that's absurd since you cannot draw such conclusions except in your head) or having a voting system has somehow increased the number of trolls who actually post? Even that is hard to prove. I'd say the number of YOUNG people on here has increased exponentially since the iOS devices have come out. Maybe the forums should have an age indicator by posters names, at least for those under the ages of 21. It's pretty easy to spot some children, but other times it's just poor education, etc. Frankly, I've had a problem with so-called 'fanboys' making the forums seem incredibly biased and illogical, but what can you do? They really DO represent almost half of all Mac users (and maybe Apple in general?) The Apple platforms have always had a lot more fanatical types than say PCs in general. It was the same way with Atari and Amiga. If you're one of them, you like that feeling. I was a bit fanatical as an Amiga user. I was also 16-23 at the time and much less mature in general.
 
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MagnusVonMagnum said:
This isn't rocket science guy. It doesn't mean any of those things. It means they don't like YOUR post. That's it. It has nothing to do with the OP.
[...]
How odd that it tells me something, then. Again, it's not rocket science. It means (for the last time), THEY DON'T LIKE YOUR POST.
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I'm sorry, but no. It's not a catch-all. Votes mean absolutely nothing, because they don't just mean someone doesn't like a post. I've downvoted a post before that was well-articulated post, but I didn't agree with it. I've also upvoted a post that contained solid logic, but used the grammar of a toddler.

Again, it's not rocket science. :rolleyes: Post votes, as they are right now, mean absolutely nothing. They contribute nothing to the boards in their current state.

And here I thought I was the most condescending person on the boards.
 
Alaerian said:
I'm sorry, but no. It's not a catch-all. Votes mean absolutely nothing, because they don't just mean someone doesn't like a post. I've downvoted a post before that was well-articulated post, but I didn't agree with it. I've also upvoted a post that contained solid logic, but used the grammar of a toddler.
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I believe "doesn't like a post" covers ALL those situations. In other words, no "why" is implied by those words nor should there be. Think about it. Are you required to explain why you voted for a given candidate or a given issue in a general election? No, you are not. So why should you be here? If you want to, you can (which is often more than you get in real life where at best you can hope a newspaper will print your comments or someone will read your blog).

The voting system should simply give one an idea of viewing audience's take on whether they agree with what you said or not. Grammar really should not play into that for voting, IMO because this isn't an English forum. And this is from someone that has an English minor in Electronic Engineering so I probably should be picky, but frankly, I gave up on that a LONG time ago or I would simply not be able to communicate online with hardly anyone. But like "fanboy-ism", I couldn't care less about such down votes if they even are on here. It's all part of your overall audience and like in real life with real voting, you simply are going to get people that cast their vote for reasons some of us would consider ridiculous or nonsensical. It all comes back to the premise of democracy and voting in general. If only certain people are allowed to vote, then it's not a democracy. At best, it's an oligarchy. And that seems to be what you that whine are desiring. Either voting for the few and privileged 'elite' (by your definition of whom fits that class) or no voting at all.


Again, it's not rocket science. :rolleyes: Post votes, as they are right now, mean absolutely nothing. They contribute nothing to the boards in their current state.
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I gather it must be "rocket science" since you just don't seem to get it. I know for a fact it does mean "something" not "absolutely nothing" and so your premise is flawed beyond recognition. The fact that you don't like the results does not invalidate the data! Like a flawed democracy in general, the results come from the voting public. Some choose not to vote and some vote badly, but anything else is a restricted vote and therefore just as invalid to those that want data from the entire audience present.

The simple fact is that the voting system on here gives valuable feedback as to how well a given post is accepted by the viewing audience on here. You call that worthless, but that's just flat out BS an is easily proven to be so. The simple fact is that your reasons for calling it worthless are easily disproved.

Look at some of the reasons given:

1> People on here "abuse" the system and vote based on emotion (Who said they can't? It's their vote for god's sake! Everyone gets 1 vote and they can spend it any way they choose or not at all)

2> Voting doesn't say "why" they voted that way. (By that argument, every vote in the U.S. or any other political system is invalid because we didn't all write down our reasons when we cast the vote for "someone" to review and then apparently "dismiss" because they didn't agree with those reasons).

3> I can't tell if they didn't like my post because of grammar, because they're a fanboy (i.e. emotional) or because they have a 'valid' reason! (See reasons 1 and 2 above; you aren't entitled to it. And while this is not a 'democracy', those that are in charge have decided to implement a general "democratic style" voting system where everyone gets 1 vote per post and can use it any way they see fit including supporting their own post. Some have called that invalid too, BTW, but it mimics real life voting where a candidate is also allowed to vote for themselves in an election).

I think that covers everything except the one flaw I do recognize in the system and that is that up and down votes aren't tallied separately but rather cancel each other out. This fails to give a person an idea how many people actually liked his post in spite of the negative votes (which could potentially be very substantial if a lot of votes are cast. Seeing -22 when it's really +100/-122 isn't very helpful to the poster if they want to know how many actually liked their post). I have voiced my concerns about this flaw numerous times, however. I see no validity to "positive votes only" type changes since that's based purely on emotionalism (i.e. I don't like people voting mean! Waaaaaaah!)


And here I thought I was the most condescending person on the boards.
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Gee, you learn something everyday, I guess! :p
 
To piggyback on what many have said, I feel a real sense of negativity on the MR forums since this voting mechanism has come about. It's often said it can be difficult to read tone in the written word, and I think it's even harder to take a vote of negativity with any sense of gracious understanding.

It doesn't even really serve to say anything like, "Disagree." Instead, it just looks like a penalty system.

As someone who has been a long-time Apple consumer, I feel like there can be a groupthink in which any response that isn't reptilianly positive about Apple is a form of heresy. It seems there is no room for nuance.

It seems odd to me as I've been part of the Apple community during its darkest days when the detractors were many and people actually called themselves Mac evangelists and looked to Guy Kawasaki as a leader in that area. Even back then, I can't remember the litmus test for being an Apple supporter being so incredibly high. There was no litmus test!

I personally think this has coincided with Apple's shift toward becoming a tactically run business that is more about business strategy itself than product in the last couple of years, but that certainly could be up for debate. But as that change has happened, Apple has become more litigious, it has made safer, more predictable decisions, some of its users have become more defensive even as Apple's success has increased, and new forms of evangelists like John Gruber have become more popular, who is probably better described as zionistic than evangesitic (to continue the religious analogy: an evangelist spreads ideas to others, a zionist is protective, in the general sense of the words—I am not intending to comment on either of the religions those words are often associated with).

During Apple's ascendancy, there was that evangelistic feel of trying to entreat new users to Apple's way of thinking. But at the top, with its success, Apple and some of its users do seem to be in more of a mentality of keeping Apple at that place with business strategy rather than taking risks. In a sense, it makes sense, especially coinciding with Jobs' death. Before Jobs died he built a company that's like an impenetrable fortress of success, with billions in its war chest. It makes sense that he wanted to leave Apple that way. He had seen it almost go bankrupt before. And he wanted to leave it strong and defended. I remember noting when the iPad was introduced that it struck me as the first product Apple had ever introduced that an outside analyst could have predicted the nature of. No one would have predicted the first iMac, Apple's decision to go after the music market, the G4 Cube, a unibody enclosure, OS X being ported to a phone, etc. But the iPad, although a great product for sure, is also a very obvious product. It's a natural fit for Apple, given the technology they had created. But I feel as if Apple's last big thing was in 2007 with the original iPhone. The iPhone was a great risk.

I am someone who still believes in Apple. I think Apple does great things, and I want them to do more. But no company does great things because its users defend the company against reasonable criticisms. Steve Jobs was the first to admit that Apple lost out to Microsoft in the 90s because Apple didn't keep up the pace of innovation with the Mac OS.

When he returned to Apple, Steve Jobs wouldn't even use an Apple notebook—he used a Thinkpad. I'd like to know how many people would down vote Steve Jobs for using a Thinkpad. Was that a threat to Apple? Or was it simply an honest acknowledgment that Apple needed to build better products?

I encourage anyone who disagrees with my assessment on the changes with Apple, how those changes affect the tone on this board, and the changes in tone's manifestation through the voting system to tell me what they disagree with me about. I miss the discourse. And, honestly, I don't like being downvoted. I don't mind admitting I find it mean-spirited.
 
swingerofbirch said:
To piggyback on what many have said, I feel a real sense of negativity on the MR forums since this voting mechanism has come about. It's often said it can be difficult to read tone in the written word, and I think it's even harder to take a vote of negativity with any sense of gracious understanding.

It doesn't even really serve to say anything like, "Disagree." Instead, it just looks like a penalty system.
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I used to visit this site every hour, now I check it out about once a week. The negativity here has made the forums unenjoyable.
 
al256 said:
I used to visit this site every hour, now I check it out about once a week. The negativity here has made the forums unenjoyable.
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I agree! It's filled with trolls that take everything out of context when you mention anything that doesn't follow the "YEAH APPLE (and more specifically the iPhone!)" mantra.
 
I'm telling you it's the iPhone kids. Nothing against most of them, but being an Apple user or Mac curious and having an appreciation for the OS is not required for admission anymore.. all you have to do is buy or have interest in the latest 'fad' phone and you're in. Most carriers are letting them go for $99 with contract... That instantly adds a lot of jerks in the mix who really had no business in the rest of our playground (outside of iPhone subforum), imo.



Aw, hell- at least I can downvote the buggers!:D
 
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Mr. Retrofire said:
Yes they can. According to the rumors site MacRumorsRumors.com, MacRumors.com plans to remove them in "the near future". They plan to replace them with a "Thank you!" button (similar to a "Like!" button).

;)
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I'd take anything you read on that site with a grain of salt, if anything I think this site is embracing the voting buttons.
 
Need to get rid of the karma system of posts.

I am sick of posting something and getting a bunch of negative marks by my post. If you do not agree with me you should just post a response telling everyone why.
 
I also believe that the karma system should be public, if someone gives you a negative point everyone should see who it was.
 
waloshin said:
I am sick of posting something and getting a bunch of negative marks by my post. If you do not agree with me you should just post a response telling everyone why.
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Why are even paying any attention to them? I don't think I've every really noticed what "total" my posts have... I don't care. It's the responses that count, and it's the responses I respond to.

That said... I will vote good posts up.... but never ever vote posts down.
 
I wonder how many actually read the rules of the forum?

Here's the first few lines:

"Goals of the Forums"

The #1 goal is to discuss Apple news and rumors.

The rules and decisions are made to protect this goal over all else, first and foremost in the News and Article Discussion forums. Following closely are forum discussions about other aspects of Macs and for giving help to fellow users.

https://macrumors.zendesk.com/hc/en-us


define: Discuss

1. to consider or examine by argument, comment, etc.; talk over or write about, especially to explore solutions; debate: to discuss the proposed law on taxes.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discuss


I've focused on the word "discussion" here because it seems that in some cases, individual posts or threads that are initiated, are anything but discussions.

Moreover they seem to be either slanted towards praising Apple and bashing the competition, or stirring up the haters that hang out here and on all types of forums.

When I see a member use the spelling "Windoze" it's obvious where their bias is. I see no reason to "hate", when it's perfectly acceptable to simply have a preference for the Mac. To dislike Windows in favor of Mac is one thing. But to use errant spelling or condescending words and posts, serves no purpose as I see it.

In some cases I've read the opening post of a new thread that appeared to be an honest invitation to discuss, or an honest question, yet the author is hit with the label "troll".

Or in some cases, no matter what is written, immediately the creator of the post is condemned or judged based on style of writing, a typographical error, or some other minutia.

At least that's the way it's appeared to me. Perhaps I'm wrong, I've never claimed to be the authority. It just seems as though in many cases honest discussion is not something that is encouraged.

In my opinion this is a great forum, with a lot of good information, a wealth of guides, etc.

Yet by featuring these buttons, invites the less responsible people to down vote out of spite, or just for their personal satisfaction. Since there is no way to know what the character of the person is, it seems as though voting ends up being rather irrelevant.

That's just my two cents on a system that has the potential to be valuable... if not for those who choose to abuse it.
 
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InsanelyApple said:
They are really annoying. We've removed them from the home page. Now lot's remove them from the posts. I thought that they would be a good idea at first, but now I don't think that? Why?

1) It's childish. This is a forum of adults and teenagers, not Kindergarden, let's try to act our own ages.
2) Any "anti-Apple" opinion gets a million arrow downs. Here is an example of how this would happen.


Image

Image

Image

Okay, I know it's not that extreme in most cases, but I've seen stuff similar to this since the vote buttons have been added. Here is a real example of this type of action.

3) People can rate there own posts. Cheating the system = :D... not really. (See if no one has voted on this thread besides me, that Up vote is from me.)
4) Maybe if arn doesn't want it completely removed we can be like Facebook, a like button, no dislike button.

I'll post anymore ideas as I think of them.
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LMAO!! I never noticed this. And the OP got like 100+ down votes. LMAO!!

I kind of like when people down vote my posts. I think it's funny because they do it for no reason.

If somebody says something stupid- you just...

166c6ep.jpg
 
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waloshin said:
I am sick of posting something and getting a bunch of negative marks by my post. If you do not agree with me you should just post a response telling everyone why.
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It's often not worth a full blown post to just "poll" that you disagree with what was said. There are too many posts to reply to every single one individually and people won't read or complain about posts being "too long" or a "giant wall of text" if you try. So I often click down posts I disagree with and just post one reply to give my opinion. I get downvoted all the time because I don't like emotional fanaticism and there's a LOT of that on these forums so my views of some of the things Apple does aren't popular with these types, regardless of how true some things I say may be. In the end, it's just a poll +/- system. The only thing that makes it a bit useless is that it doesn't show total positive and negative count. They cancel each other out. I'd rather know how many on here agree with me and how many disagree and you cannot tell that when the result of 50 agreeing and 50 disagreeing is a NET ZERO.
 
I never thought anyone actually took voting seriously. At least you know someone read your post. Plus, it doesn't carry any weight. Your rank is not affected by it.

I just wonder if people get some sort of satisfaction by down voting posts. Do you have an urge to do it?
 
That's why it's so funny, people go through the trouble to vote someone down but it doesn't even do anything. It just leaves me looking like:
confused.gif


People like being anonymous, and they LOVE to use those vote buttons. And the OP is giving them the reaction that they want.

InsanelyApple said:
Can we please remove the vote buttons?
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Are you crying? Even I voted you down. I usually don't use vote buttons but when I see like 20+ vote someone down, it makes me want to do it too.

And they'll sit there and vote you down, and still talk to you- they'll never tell you that they did it.

I just think it's fun.
 
Downvoting needs to go away.

Seriously.
Downvoting sucks.
It allows fanboys and uneducated people to give bad feedback to a post simply because it's a different opinion from theirs, or they don't like what is written.
I think it could be better with only an upvoting button. +1 for posts we like, if it's an offensive posts it can be reported to a moderator, if there is something to discuss we can do it.
A forum should be about comparing points of view, not downvoting what we don't like without giving an explanation, and getting away with it.
 
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