Can we please remove the vote buttons?

[MagnusVonMagnum]

I seriously don't know if you're comparing my response or the actual down-voting.

I'm saying this thread has been up for a long time now and the NO votes still outnumber the YES ones (unless you count "up vote only" added in; I sure don't since it's not the same thing). What I'm getting at is that it seems like voting is pointless if the losing side is going to simply keep begging anyway. In other words, like the losers of Roe V. Wade, they don't accept the result and keep trying to put it up for vote again and again (like failed school levies which drives me nuts; how many times do I have to go and vote each year to say ENOUGH ILLEGAL TAXES? BTW, just as an aside...it's been ruled 3x in my state that funding public schooling through property tax is UNCONSTITUTIONAL in this state and yet over 15 years later, they STILL keep taxing it that way anyway!) Sooner or later, people that got riled up about something like a school levy won't show up to vote in a special election (they thought they spoke out already) and they pass the darn thing anyway. So what good did it do us to vote in the first place? This country is a SHAM democracy even on the things we're supposed to have a say in, let alone the corrupt representatives that represent special interests rather than the people that elected them.

Hence, my comparison. In short, the people spoke. They don't want voting removed as a single majority. The forum hasn't removed it and yet I keep seeing begging month after month by people that for some odd reason can't just IGNORE the stupid votes. Other forums I'm on use reputation points instead of up/down votes. Here, it doesn't affect your account. There it can affect it and if you think the system is abused here, it's a lot worse there with buddies voting for their friends and against people they don't like in hoards like some absurd high school click of jocks vs nerds or something.

I guess I'm not as intellectual as you. I also read your previous post, which got the response from iBlue you didn't like. You mentioned how civil these forums are. Yeah, right. I noticed you frequent the news and a few others

Yeah, I don't own an iPhone so I don't usually read those forums. I'll take your word that they are less civil. iPhone users are probably younger by nature (or by at least majority) and immaturity is usually high there. I never got an iPhone because I use a pre-pay phone that costs me around $8 a month. With my savings, I can buy a brand new MBP over other year instead (something I actually use). I got two iPod Touches over the years instead.

 

[srf4real]

I think the voting buttons are one of the reasons I choose to use macrumors over most other forums. You can register your satisfaction or dissatisfaction, and there aren't countless garbage posts addressing the same quote.

So true. Or an upvote, depends how you look at it..

 

[Surely]

I'm saying this thread has been up for a long time now and the NO votes still outnumber the YES ones (unless you count "up vote only" added in; I sure don't since it's not the same thing). What I'm getting at is that it seems like voting is pointless if the losing side is going to simply keep begging anyway. In other words, like the losers of Roe V. Wade, they don't accept the result and keep trying to put it up for vote again and again (like failed school levies which drives me nuts; how many times do I have to go and vote each year to say ENOUGH ILLEGAL TAXES? BTW, just as an aside...it's been ruled 3x in my state that funding public schooling through property tax is UNCONSTITUTIONAL in this state and yet over 15 years later, they STILL keep taxing it that way anyway!) Sooner or later, people that got riled up about something like a school levy won't show up to vote in a special election (they thought they spoke out already) and they pass the darn thing anyway. So what good did it do us to vote in the first place? This country is a SHAM democracy even on the things we're supposed to have a say in, let alone the corrupt representatives that represent special interests rather than the people that elected them.

Hence, my comparison. In short, the people spoke. They don't want voting removed as a single majority. The forum hasn't removed it and yet I keep seeing begging month after month by people that for some odd reason can't just IGNORE the stupid votes. Other forums I'm on use reputation points instead of up/down votes. Here, it doesn't affect your account. There it can affect it and if you think the system is abused here, it's a lot worse there with buddies voting for their friends and against people they don't like in hoards like some absurd high school click of jocks vs nerds or something.



Yeah, I don't own an iPhone so I don't usually read those forums. I'll take your word that they are less civil. iPhone users are probably younger by nature (or by at least majority) and immaturity is usually high there. I never got an iPhone because I use a pre-pay phone that costs me around $8 a month. With my savings, I can buy a brand new MBP over other year instead (something I actually use). I got two iPod Touches over the years instead.

If you total up the "Yes" and "Like button only" votes, they beat the pure "No" votes. 52.62% to 43.60% as of this post. I consider the Yes and Like button only options to be similar enough to group together.

And comparing this to anything political or serious......wowzers.

Times change, society changes, people change. It's called progress.

Your posts in this thread are odd. IMO.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

If you total up the "Yes" and "Like button only" votes, they beat the pure "No" votes. 52.62% to 43.60% as of this post. I consider the Yes and Like button only options to be similar enough to group together.

Imagine an election where you could only vote YES for taxes without a NO option. It'd pass every time if it got even ONE vote. It ignores reality. So no, I don't lump them even CLOSE to together. Either keep the system or ditch it. "Like only" is beyond irritating. It's POINTLESS. And I compare elections because we're talking about voting. How many other forms of voting do you commonly think about to draw a comparison?

Like someone said, at least the voting system keeps threads from getting endless "me too" type replies. Who wants to read a hundred posts that say, "I disagree" or "I agree" ? I sure as heck don't.

Your posts in this thread are odd. IMO.

Maybe I'm an odd person.

 

[GGJstudios]

Like someone said, at least the voting system keeps threads from getting endless "me too" type replies. Who wants to read a hundred posts that say, "I disagree" or "I agree" ?

Reporting such posts will also keep you from having to read them, as they're against forum rules.

 

[rdowns]

Reporting such posts will also keep you from having to read them, as they're against forum rules.

But you'd have to read them in order to report them.

 

[b24pgg]

"Like only" is beyond irritating. It's POINTLESS.

Who wants to read a hundred posts that say, "I disagree" or "I agree" ? I sure as heck don't.

A "Like only" system eliminates this problem. If someone agrees, they can like the post. If someone disagrees, they can use their words to explain why.

Very few sites use a like/dislike system. The overwhelming majority of sites use a "Like only" system with much more positive discourse than here at MR.

 

[peapody]

A "Like only" system eliminates this problem. If someone agrees, they can like the post. If someone disagrees, they can use their words to explain why.

Very few sites use a like/dislike system. The overwhelming majority of sites use a "Like only" system with much more positive discourse than here at MR.

The like only system seems like a good compromise. The dislike just instigates and hurts peoples feelings. Why can't we all just get along?

 

[stridemat]

Can anyone help with Safari adblocking settings to remove them all together?

 

[ucfgrad93]

Imagine an election where you could only vote YES for taxes without a NO option. It'd pass every time if it got even ONE vote. It ignores reality. So no, I don't lump them even CLOSE to together. Either keep the system or ditch it. "Like only" is beyond irritating. It's POINTLESS. And I compare elections because we're talking about voting. How many other forms of voting do you commonly think about to draw a comparison?

Like someone said, at least the voting system keeps threads from getting endless "me too" type replies. Who wants to read a hundred posts that say, "I disagree" or "I agree" ? I sure as heck don't.



Maybe I'm an odd person.

I agree. Keep them both or ditch them both, but don't keep only one.

Up vote for you.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

A "Like only" system eliminates this problem. If someone agrees, they can like the post. If someone disagrees, they can use their words to explain why.

Very few sites use a like/dislike system. The overwhelming majority of sites use a "Like only" system with much more positive discourse than here at MR.

Like I said, "like only" is POINTLESS. It's not a "compromise" in ANY sense of the word. IMO, it's 100x WORSE than the current system or even no system at all because it distorts reality entirely.

So someone posts something and it says "10 likes". Well, does that mean that three thousand people DIDN'T like it because you assume that many read the thread? Does it mean they didn't bother? Where's the "neutral" vote at to account for it? What DOES it mean without any frame of comparison or reference? IT MEANS NOTHING.

However, as it currently stands, I'd agree the system IS somewhat useless (other than keeping people from posting tons of "I agree" or "I disagree" posts) because it doesn't tally total likes and dislikes. It just cancels them out with the opposite and shows the NET result. Well, 5 plus or 5 negative means nothing if it was really 245 plus, 240 negative. You lose all sense of SCOPE and the person that wants to know how many liked what he had to say will think either 5 did or in the case of -5, NO ONE did. But that's just not true. It could be that 240 liked his opinion and 245 didn't. At least he'd know then that there are a lot of people that agree with him whereas canceling the total NET result tells you nothing of the sort. In that regard, no system might be better than a faulty one, IMO. You don't get voting results in an election that say "200 votes for the levy". You get results that say 2400 FOR and 2200 AGAINST. Yeah, the net difference is 200 FOR it, but the SCOPE is lost without the TOTAL TALLIES.

Reporting such posts will also keep you from having to read them, as they're against forum rules.

Maybe they're against the rules because there's NO NEED for them with a vote system in place (and the vote system is there BECAUSE we don't want annoying YAY/NAY posts). If all you have to say is YAY or NAY, click the vote button. This is the only real use for it anyway. But it would be better to see the total tallies.

 

[GGJstudios]

Maybe they're against the rules because there's NO NEED for them with a vote system in place

Except they were against the rules long before the vote buttons were introduced.

 

[Cerebrus' Maw]

I just want to make a contribution here.

Right now, we are all arguing what the Vote buttons represent and what they are perceive to do.

But what should really be looked at is what and why they were actually introduced for. We are right now looking at the end result. We should be looking at the requirement.

Were they to indicate informed posts? To try and alleviate trolls? Were they introduced on the perception that the community here would have enough emotionless detachment to vote on a post that was factually correct rather than ultimately positive for a certain "side".

Or were they even introduced as a "Lets see how this goes, just for the hell of it" reason

 

[b24pgg]

as it currently stands, I'd agree the system IS somewhat useless (other than keeping people from posting tons of "I agree" or "I disagree" posts)

Not all posts warrant "agree" or "disagree" responses. I posted a tutorial on how to perform a task that received lots of downvotes from trolls. If the voting option was removed, would those people all of a sudden have been saying "I disagree with your tutorial"? That makes no sense.

Whether or not a better voting systems should replace the current one is a different discussion, but we seem to agree that the current system is bad, plain and simple.

 

[iBlue]

I think it's the more off-topic forums where it causes annoyance. I've never been sure what macrumors had to gain by adding this system.

 

[GoCubsGo]

I think it's the more off-topic forums where it causes annoyance. I've never been sure what macrumors had to gain by adding this system.

To mimic Apple, MR remains tight-lipped on this. Either someone does not care what members think or he truly believes there is added value.

 

[Queen of Spades]

I think it's the more off-topic forums where it causes annoyance. I've never been sure what macrumors had to gain by adding this system.

It is very annoying. If there were some way to see who downvoted your post, that would likely stop the antagonizing. Most people wouldn't have the guts to pull that if they had to put their name on it. I've also seen it used unfairly en masse on certain members.

 

[Elven]

I see little value to them, while this personally does not bother me, I would like them to be removed as it would stop the endless off-topic moans/rants in threads due to an individual down voting someone.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Not all posts warrant "agree" or "disagree" responses.

What warrants a response is in the eye of the beholder. There are clearly a large number of people on here that like a voting system. Personally, I miss the old system where you can vote on a news article or a thread's popularity in general, not just individual posts within them. That would give me an idea of how people react to a given article (like a poll) and in some cases whether or not it's worth reading when I have no interest in it one way or another.

Regardless, the one thing I don't really 'get' here is why some people are so against the system in general. What part of IGNORE IT don't some of you get? Why do you let some stupid statistic make you angry? It's irrational, IMO. I wouldn't be upset if the system was removed today. However, I do think if it's going to stay it should be made more useful with total tallies and not less useful by distorting reality with "feel good" "PC" like-only responses. But even so, I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

To mimic Apple, MR remains tight-lipped on this. Either someone does not care what members think or he truly believes there is added value.

Apparently, some people can't read the results of the poll since YES, REMOVE THEM is OUTVOTED by NO, LEAVE THEM. I'd say they are very well listening to their public. This idea that you can COMBINE the "like button only" votes is flawed for the reasons above. I'd sooner vote to remove them entirely than vote for a distorted reality so NO, they are NOT the same. Taken separately as individual votes, KEEP THEM WINS. Some of you just don't seem to 'get' that because you don't like your vote losing. That doesn't give you the right to distort/spin the voting results by adding other categories to your tally.

It is very annoying. If there were some way to see who downvoted your post, that would likely stop the antagonizing. Most people wouldn't have the guts to pull that if they had to put their name on it. I've also seen it used unfairly en masse on certain members.

I downvoted your response because I don't like it. I think anonymous polling is much preferred. Otherwise, you might get PM fights, etc. over people taking a stupid vote personally. But why take it personally in the first place? I don't agree with your opinion so I downvoted it. It's as simple as that.

 

[Queen of Spades]

I downvoted your response because I don't like it. I think anonymous polling is much preferred.

Why, so you can be a troll without consequence? If you disagree with something, why not post a response, state a rebuttal, actually discuss it. Stand behind your opinion and contribute.

Otherwise, you might get PM fights, etc. over people taking a stupid vote personally. But why take it personally in the first place? I don't agree with your opinion so I downvoted it. It's as simple as that.

Highly doubt it would denigrate to PM fights. If the vote is so stupid, why bother doing it at all? Why even have it in the first place? It's a discussion forum, not a facebook page. Drive-by downvoting is pointless and adds nothing.

 

[iBlue]

On some forums there is a "thanks" button. You can see who thanked each post. It too can be used passive-aggressively (such as with excellent slap-down posts) but it's over all friendlier than an up AND down system. In the more technical forums here I notice anything not unconditionally praising Apple gets downvoted but that's seldom personal. In community forums the anonymous downvotes are often used obnoxiously by childish weenies. It's particularly inappropriate with member photos getting downvoted. How lame can you get? ("I want to insult this person but I'm too uncreative to do so cleverly and too chicken to just say it risking a ban.")

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Why, so you can be a troll without consequence? If you disagree with something, why not post a response, state a rebuttal, actually discuss it. Stand behind your opinion and contribute.



Highly doubt it would denigrate to PM fights. If the vote is so stupid, why bother doing it at all? Why even have it in the first place? It's a discussion forum, not a facebook page. Drive-by downvoting is pointless and adds nothing.

You've expressed many of my reservations about the 'down' vote extremely well.

More to the point, you have responded to the splenetic tone of the previous post with grace and courtesy as well as offering an excellent example of how to express polite but firm disagreement without resorting to trolling or flaming. Very well done (and I up voted your post for emphasis).

I have considerable reservations about the down voting, as I think it allows people to lazily hide behind their anonymity far too easily, and moreover, it can far too easily steamroll.

On some forums there is a "thanks" button. You can see who thanked each post. It too can be used passive-aggressively (such as with excellent slap-down posts) but it's over all friendlier than an up AND down system. In the more technical forums here I notice anything not unconditionally praising Apple gets downvoted but that's seldom personal. In community forums the anonymous downvotes are often used obnoxiously by childish weenies. It's particularly inappropriate with member photos getting downvoted. How lame can you get? ("I want to insult this person but I'm too uncreative to do so cleverly and too chicken to just say it risking a ban.")

Agree completely. Posts which even mildly criticise Apple receive an absolute avalanche of down votes - perhaps predictable, maybe even inevitable, but it would be nice to be able to have a serious discussion on a tech forum rather than that.

More relevantly, I agree entirely with your observation concerning the use of the down vote on the member photos thread. This is ugly and nasty and completely unwarranted.

This is a thread whereby members upload pictures of themselves (in some cases, again, due to personal circumstances, that takes considerable courage and any support and encouragement they get is to be welcomed) and to post sneering remarks and horrible cowardly down votes is completely uncalled for, ugly, nasty behaviour. If there is any thread where the possibility of casting down votes ought to be removed, it is, above all, this one.

 

[OneMike]

Just make it so as with the thanks buttons on other sites. Likes and Dislikes show who did it. 99% of people who down vote without reason only do so because they're anonymous.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Why, so you can be a troll without consequence?

Why is disagreeing or disliking a post "trolling" ??? Do you even KNOW what a "troll" is? I don't think you do. It requires POSTING baiting messages for entertainment purposes to the poster in question. Having a built-in POLL feature like/dislike isn't about trolling, dude.

If you disagree with something, why not post a response, state a rebuttal, actually discuss it. Stand behind your opinion and contribute.

I do if I have something to add. Often times, I've already said my peace. Why should I repeat myself? I read the replies and if I don't agree with them, I hit the down (disagree/dislike) button. If I don't care one way or another or if I agree with some things they say, I leave it alone. If I really like what they said, I vote up (like).

Besides, there are plenty of times when there really isn't much more to say than I disagree. I've gotten into plenty of long, drawn out arguments over trivial things. I get sick of 'debating' something where I simply don't agree with a given POV. Likewise, if I do like what they have to say, I don't want to explain WHY. It's probably for the same reasons they already outlined in their post. Thus, the up vote.

Highly doubt it would denigrate to PM fights. If the vote is so stupid, why bother doing it at all? Why even have it in the first place? It's a discussion forum, not a facebook page. Drive-by downvoting is pointless and adds nothing.

Like I said, I preferred voting on THREADS rather than individual comments, but I can see why some would like to express their displeasure. Obviously, some on here aren't in agreement with you in not using it since I got a -6 above. Do I care? No, because that's the nature of society. If we all agreed on everything, it'd be pretty dull. That doesn't mean it can't go too far, but I hardly think like/dislike type votes are the end of the freaking world, which is the way some of you are making it sound.

Are people's emotions so easily bruised by a simple, "I don't like what you had to say" vote button? Geeze, I think society really has become too touchy/feely/PC. It's time-outs instead of a trip to the wood shed that has lead to this. Obviously in an age where an online post can cause someone to kill themselves, we need to take a BIG step back and ask ourselves if these methods are REALLY the right way to raise kids today. In my day, if you stepped out of line, you got your hide tanned. And you didn't do it again! Telling some kid to go to his room (where he promptly plays Nintendo or takes a nap) is not a punishment! So kids aren't afraid to be disrespectful because they know no one will DO anything (except, ironically, OTHER KIDS...you know the ones toting guns that will kill you over a slice of pizza. But THAT is a result of bad parenting too.)

So I say the problem here is not the voting system, but rather society and the piss-poor way we raise families today.

It's particularly inappropriate with member photos getting downvoted. How lame can you get? ("I want to insult this person but I'm too uncreative to do so cleverly and too chicken to just say it risking a ban.")

So you think they should break the forum rules and just outright insult/flame other people on here? Aren't you just implying that because you WANT them to get banned? I mean seriously, that's some obvious bias going on there. So they don't like a photo. Big deal.

Boo hoo! My feelings are hurt. I posted a picture of myself with my gut hanging out while sitting on the toilet and people didn't like it! WHY cruel world WHY?????? We need a LAW that send people to prison for leering at my fat bottom!!! Send 'em all to jail!

Yeah, that's where society is heading. Stupid new laws to 'protect' your lack of free speech. Cyber-bullying...AKA "You aren't allowed to express an opinion in public anymore!" (tm)

I think some people on here need to watch some George Carlin.

 

[-aggie-]

Snip

I do if I have something to add. Often times, I've already said my peace. Why should I repeat myself? I read the replies and if I don't agree with them, I hit the down (disagree/dislike) button. If I don't care one way or another or if I agree with some things they say, I leave it alone. If I really like what they said, I vote up (like).

Besides, there are plenty of times when there really isn't much more to say than I disagree. I've gotten into plenty of long, drawn out arguments over trivial things. I get sick of 'debating' something where I simply don't agree with a given POV. Likewise, if I do like what they have to say, I don't want to explain WHY. It's probably for the same reasons they already outlined in their post. Thus, the up vote.

BIG Snip

You can't be serious.