Can you justify Apple's restriction on rolling back to early iOS?

[SakuraSuki]

You sound so selfish with your arguments, and you don't seem to realize it...

- So all the restrictions are fine but the ones that bother you, it's all about "me me me...", right?
- You HAVE the possibility of downgrading to iOS6, you just had to do a baseband backup and keep a version of iOS6. In other words, you can but you have to do the work yourself. Now what you're asking for, is for Apple to spend the resources to allow a path for downgrading to a previous version of the OS, that includes server space, bandwidth, activation servers, tech support personels, etc... In other words, you want to strip Apple from its freedom to not invest time and money in making that available to its users. But I guess freedom of others is not as important as your freedom, right?
- You had the freedom to not install iOS7, you did it anyway. that upgrade had limitations (not being able to downgrade), and you had the freedom to decline the terms and conditions, you accepted anyway.

you're being silly man, realize it before saying any more ridiculous stuff about your freedom

I am perfectly fine with how manufacture design about the hardware. I have freedom to choose which hardware I like. This is not concern for me.

If you look through the forum, there is a post complaining about not having the ability to downgrade.

I had the freedom to not install iOS 7, yes, but should I also have the freedom of rolling back if I don't like it? Yes, here was 2 day window for me. But if I was busying in my work and upgraded after that 2 day period, should I give other 2 day period?

Asking for for downgrading does not mean it will strip Apple from its freedom to not invest time and money in making that available to its user. Apple is multi-billion dollar company, it has the ability to do so without limiting other users. If Google able to handle the same thing Apple should as well

 

[Arran]

Rollback is very easy. If you have ever loaded beta version of iOS, you know how easy to rollback to pervious iOS.

There is a small 2 day period that you can rollback to iOS 6 if you upgraded to iOS 7 and the process is simple downloading the iOS 6 firmware and alt resort.

Apple close the door after 2 days, not enough for people want to downgrade but updated late for some reason.

But during a beta period, 3rd party app developers have not released their updated apps to the general public.

Once iOS X goes on public release, tens of thousands of apps on millions of iOS devices get upgraded and some may have their local or online data migrated to newer formats. This is all at the discretion of thousands of 3rd party app developers who are not under Apple's control.

The general public are not developers, nor are their devices part of a development environment that can be blown-away and reformatted at will. They are production devices which millions of ordinary people use to run their daily lives: They must work.

 

[C DM]

Well, iDevice us about combination of hardware or software. Yes, it is true. I am not even suggesting on install Android on iDevice and I am sure some people want do that. I am suggesting that user should able to downgrade to early version of iOS that was DESIGNED for that device.

Apple could design phone with non-removable battery, no SD card or whatever, that is fine, but not allow user to rollback to early version is not fine. iOS 6 was designed for iDevice, so user should able to rollback if they DISLIKE iOS 7.

Also, striping my ability of downgrading is as equal as stripping my liberty. Because you don't have the liberty choice in this case. Anything can be small and big at same time.

Apple's whole approach to everything is not to do it the way where people might be left with issues or where there's a good risk of something not going right. If and when they might work out a good process of it all they might do it, but probably not until then (if ever).

 

[SakuraSuki]

Just look at the threads he starts. It's pretty obvious what he's doing.

May I refer you to this post: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1644551/

You guys are really have night degree of tolerance on Apple. You guys really do, but I do not. If some day Google strip my ability to downgrade, I will make same thread on Google forum as well. If Lenovo decide not allow me install Early Windows on my laptop, I will complain on their forum as well,

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But during a beta period, 3rd party app developers have not released their updated apps to the general public.

Once iOS X goes on public release, tens of thousands of apps on millions of iOS devices get upgraded and some may have their local or online data migrated to newer formats. This is all at the discretion of thousands of 3rd party app developers who are not under Apple's control.

The general public are not developers, nor are their devices part of a development environment that can be blown-away and reformatted at will. They are production devices which millions of ordinary people use to run their daily lives: They must work.

This is bull. I downgraded Android several times, I have no problem on my Android Apps. Now Apple offers the option of downloading last support version should also help on this matter.

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Apple's whole approach to everything is not to do it the way where people might be left with issues or where there's a good risk of something not going right. If and when they might work out a good process of it all they might do it, but probably not until then (if ever).

I think good way of doing is out a disclaimer. If you choose to downgrade, you might experience difficulties and Apple is not responsible for any of that.

 

[iCarabma]

We live in a free society, we are entitled to have choice. You choice whoever is your president, you choice whether Android, iOS, BlackBerry or whatever. We ask for freedom and we see freedom of choice is important part of our society. However, this choice is suddenly not applicable for Apple.

Seriously, I brought the god damn device, I have freedom on destroying it, abuse it, cook it, using it, rollback to older version of iOS, upgrading to newer iOS if I wish to. Why should Apple impose restriction on rolling back to older version? What is the reason behind it? Keep user not rolling back to older version so that it appears everybody are using he latest version of OS?

Yes, some people updated to iOS 7 and yes there are people do not like it. And yes people should read the description before install it. People think the fault is the customer should seriously think for a moment.

If I buy a PC or Mac, I have the freedom on choice my OS... I can install Windows 7, Windows 8 or early Windows XP. I can install Lion, Mountain Lion p, Linux, Windows on my Mac as well. Why should iDevice be any different? I can change just about everything on my Android devices if I am willing to,

Everybody defending Apple on this matter should agree government strip away your freedom of speech, freedom of choice. Because not allowing customer choice whichever versions of iOS is same as take away of my right of choice

I don't know that the world needs yet another thread about this, but:

It is hysterical that you think "you get to choose whoever is your president".

You get a certain amount of input, and a choice is made. Some people get very upset at the results.

Wait... You had a certain amount of input on whether to upgrade, you made your choice and are upset at the results. Nevermind. Good metaphor.

(And you can move to android. Some people really like it, and you will almost assuredly never have to worry about whether to upgrade or not.)

 

[C DM]

May I refer you to this post: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1644551/

You guys are really have night degree of tolerance on Apple. You guys really do, but I do not. If some day Google strip my ability to downgrade, I will make same thread on Google forum as well. If Lenovo decide not allow me install Early Windows on my laptop, I will complain on their forum as well,

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This is bull. I downgraded Android several times, I have no problem on my Android Apps. Now Apple offers the option of downloading last support version should also help on this matter.

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I think good way of doing is out a disclaimer. If you choose to downgrade, you might experience difficulties and Apple is not responsible for any of that.

That's pretty much the point: for a lot of companies, that's the way to go, but for Apple that's not really how they go about things--it's kind of against their whole way of working.

 

[joejoejoe]

We live in a free society, we are entitled to have choice. You choice whoever is your president, you choice whether Android, iOS, BlackBerry or whatever. We ask for freedom and we see freedom of choice is important part of our society. However, this choice is suddenly not applicable for Apple.

Seriously, I brought the god damn device, I have freedom on destroying it, abuse it, cook it, using it, rollback to older version of iOS, upgrading to newer iOS if I wish to. Why should Apple impose restriction on rolling back to older version? What is the reason behind it? Keep user not rolling back to older version so that it appears everybody are using he latest version of OS?

Yes, some people updated to iOS 7 and yes there are people do not like it. And yes people should read the description before install it. People think the fault is the customer should seriously think for a moment.

If I buy a PC or Mac, I have the freedom on choice my OS... I can install Windows 7, Windows 8 or early Windows XP. I can install Lion, Mountain Lion p, Linux, Windows on my Mac as well. Why should iDevice be any different? I can change just about everything on my Android devices if I am willing to,

Everybody defending Apple on this matter should agree government strip away your freedom of speech, freedom of choice. Because not allowing customer choice whichever versions of iOS is same as take away of my right of choice

Free country. Companies can choose to run their business how they see best for the industry they're in.

Customers have the choice to not update, they have the choice to go to another brand. Right there is all the freedom in the world. Requiring a company to change its business practices simply because a few people feel miffed is as unamerican as it gets my friend.

 

[Arran]

This is bull.

Your opinion. A bit rude, but that's fine.

I downgraded Android several times, I have no problem on my Android Apps.

Looks like you'd be happier with Android. Why torture yourself with iOS?

I think good way of doing is out a disclaimer. If you choose to downgrade, you might experience difficulties and Apple is not responsible for any of that.

That would be fine too, but I don't think this is an issue for enough customers to make it worthwhile for Apple. That, and there are plenty of folks who would downgrade inadvertently or inadvisedly through their inability to understand the technical consequences. Those folks would then jam-up the genius bars trying to get free help. They would, of course, blame Apple for their misfortune.

 

[joejoejoe]

Apple should make it loud and clear: If you want ability to rollback, you can, but we will not responsible for data loss or anything happen during the process. Downgrading process is fairly simple anyway.

If Apple could support 3 OS X at same time, Microsoft could support multiple OS at same time, then Apple should able to support multiple iOS as well.

You might bring Microsoft not supporting downgrade OS as well. If it is true, then the same thing can said to Microsoft as well.

Multiple OS's at one time leads to fragmentation, and higher costs for both Apple and developers, and a mixed brand image, and less control over the user experience. Just because something has been done a certain way for a couple decades does NOT mean that it's the right way to do things. Keeping everyone on the same page (should they in fact choose to update, as numerous times it has been stated that you have the ability to do so) makes things better for the company and the consumer.

If you don't like the update, don't update. Therein lies your choice. Apple does not want to be blamed for data loss if people choose to downgrade, that is a far larger headache than giving the people the choice to update to begin with.

This is getting tiresome. You had the choice to update. Apple announced the change in detail 6 months ago. Every major news outlet reported on it multiple times. The update itself mentioned the beautiful new design. If you chose to not look into the update, to not spend a minute or two on google, to not read the update description before selecting to install the update, then it is your fault, and your fault alone that you are now in a position that you do not want to be in.

This is a country where we are free to make our own choices, the compromise being that we actually have to bear the consequences of our choices. You had all the opportunity in the world to gain proper information before making the decision to change the way your phone operated. You made a bad decision, you did not research the way you should have, and now you have to live with the consequences.

 

[SakuraSuki]

Your opinion. A bit rude, but that's fine.



Looks like you'd be happier with Android. Why torture yourself with iOS?


That would be fine too, but I don't think this is an issue for enough customers to make it worthwhile for Apple. That, and there are plenty of folks who would downgrade inadvertently or inadvisedly through their inability to understand the technical consequences. Those folks would then jam-up the genius bars trying to get free help. They would, of course, blame Apple for their misfortune.

I suppose to. I have friends hold on for even trying iOS 7 because the inability of downgrade.

Look outside Apple circle, there are lots of people who aren't all happy with Apple.

And I admit, Android is more suit for me. But I do not really completely give up iOS. Because both platform offer something unique.

 

[gotluck]

No there are no good justifications from the consumer's view, only Apple's. They don't have to support older versions with security patches, everything could be done at the users own risk but Apple wont have it.

Why people will defend this should be the subject of a study. Stockholm Syndrome

 

[SakuraSuki]

Multiple OS's at one time leads to fragmentation, and higher costs for both Apple and developers, and a mixed brand image, and less control over the user experience. Just because something has been done a certain way for a couple decades does NOT mean that it's the right way to do things. Keeping everyone on the same page (should they in fact choose to update, as numerous times it has been stated that you have the ability to do so) makes things better for the company and the consumer.

If you don't like the update, don't update. Therein lies your choice. Apple does not want to be blamed for data loss if people choose to downgrade, that is a far larger headache than giving the people the choice to update to begin with.

This is getting tiresome. You had the choice to update. Apple announced the change in detail 6 months ago. Every major news outlet reported on it multiple times. The update itself mentioned the beautiful new design. If you chose to not look into the update, to not spend a minute or two on google, to not read the update description before selecting to install the update, then it is your fault, and your fault alone that you are now in a position that you do not want to be in.

This is a country where we are free to make our own choices, the compromise being that we actually have to bear the consequences of our choices. You had all the opportunity in the world to gain proper information before making the decision to change the way your phone operated. You made a bad decision, you did not research the way you should have, and now you have to live with the consequences.

1. So far iPhone has 2 size, 2 resolution. iPad has 2 size, 2 resolution as well. So far lots of App support from iOS 5 to iOS 7, so supporting multiple version does not make development any difficult.

2. Yes, you had the freedom not to upgrade. Certainly users should do their homework before upgrading, but that doesn't mean user should not be given an option of not having ability to downgrade. If user chose to downgrade and bad thing happen, then user get the blame.

 

[haydn!]

You did have a choice. You chose to upgrade. Deal with it.

Lets also remember you only own the hardware, not the software. You only own a licence to the software and Apple reserves the right to update it, change it, in any way they see fit.

 

[FiremanMike]

We live in a free society, we are entitled to have choice. You choice whoever is your president, you choice whether Android, iOS, BlackBerry or whatever. We ask for freedom and we see freedom of choice is important part of our society. However, this choice is suddenly not applicable for Apple.

Seriously, I brought the god damn device, I have freedom on destroying it, abuse it, cook it, using it, rollback to older version of iOS, upgrading to newer iOS if I wish to. Why should Apple impose restriction on rolling back to older version? What is the reason behind it? Keep user not rolling back to older version so that it appears everybody are using he latest version of OS?

Yes, some people updated to iOS 7 and yes there are people do not like it. And yes people should read the description before install it. People think the fault is the customer should seriously think for a moment.

If I buy a PC or Mac, I have the freedom on choice my OS... I can install Windows 7, Windows 8 or early Windows XP. I can install Lion, Mountain Lion p, Linux, Windows on my Mac as well. Why should iDevice be any different? I can change just about everything on my Android devices if I am willing to,

Everybody defending Apple on this matter should agree government strip away your freedom of speech, freedom of choice. Because not allowing customer choice whichever versions of iOS is same as take away of my right of choice

Is this serious?

 

[gotluck]

You did have a choice. You chose to upgrade. Deal with it.

Lets also remember you only own the hardware, not the software. You only own a licence to the software and Apple reserves the right to update it, change it, in any way they see fit.

you've never made a mistake?

Ah yes, the good old Apple really owns your device logic..
What a terrible precedent to set in computing technology, and people gladly embrace it!

 

[wepiii]

I think I remember a quote from Steve Jobs about people not knowing what they want. My opinion is that Apple truly believes it knows what you actually want better than you. I will say, I absolutely hated everything about iOS 7 and I would have downgraded without giving it a shot based on the icons alone.... And now I love it. So maybe they are right lol.

 

[Arran]

I suppose to. I have friends hold on for even trying iOS 7 because the inability of downgrade.

That's their free choice: None of your or my business.

Look outside Apple circle, there are lots of people who aren't all happy with Apple.

True. But no company can please all the people all of the time. It's a fools errand.

... Because both platform offer something unique.

Well, you'll need to get used to compromise then. TBH, there's nothing wrong with wanting the world to work the way you'd like it. Just don't be disappointed when it doesn't.

 

[SakuraSuki]

I think I remember a quote from Steve Jobs about people not knowing what they want. My opinion is that Apple truly believes it knows what you actually want better than you. I will say, I absolutely hated everything about iOS 7 and I would have downgraded without giving it a shot based on the icons alone.... And now I love it. So maybe they are right lol.

The icon and overall look still looks like 7 years old kid paint for me... but after 3 months of beta test, I am just getting used to it.

 

[BaldiMac]

Ah yes, the good old Apple really owns your device logic..

Ah yes, the good old strawman argument. Just pretend that the poster said "your device" instead of "software" like they actually said.

What a terrible precedent to set in computing technology, and people gladly embrace it!

Copyright has been around for hundreds of years and is extremely important to society. Just because computers make it easy doesn't mean it's right to trample on other people's rights.

 

[SakuraSuki]

you've never made a mistake?

Ah yes, the good old Apple really owns your device logic..
What a terrible precedent to set in computing technology, and people gladly embrace it!

May I refer you to 3 youtube link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdIWKytq_q4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HcSnoSjYw8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oprUI6nupfc

When you have people mistaken iPhone 4S as iPhone 5, iPhone as iPad Mini, iPad Mini as iPhone 5S and embrace it, then this is not strange at all.

Again, people here have high tolerance towards Apple.

 

[gentlefury]

Windows XP

 

[nebo1ss]

But during a beta period, 3rd party app developers have not released their updated apps to the general public.

Once iOS X goes on public release, tens of thousands of apps on millions of iOS devices get upgraded and some may have their local or online data migrated to newer formats. This is all at the discretion of thousands of 3rd party app developers who are not under Apple's control.

The general public are not developers, nor are their devices part of a development environment that can be blown-away and reformatted at will. They are production devices which millions of ordinary people use to run their daily lives: They must work.

This is not really a valid argument. Most who would chose to go back would be happy to set up their phone as new and re-sync critical data like calendar, contacts and music. Everything else data wise is not critical. Those who save shsh Blobs had a simple way to go back and never had the problems you mention but even that has gradually been disabled by Apple.

 

[Night Spring]

I think the main reason why Apple disallows rollbacks to earlier iOS version is to prevent jailbreak. Around iOS 2, it used to be possible to rollback to earlier versions. Apple would release a version that broke a jailbreak method, then a lot of people would rollback to an earlier version so they could jailbreak. Then somewhere around iOS 3, Apple started signing iOS versions, thus preventing rollbacks. Then the jailbreak people figured out a way to fake the signature, Apple made their signature more complicated, and so on...

 

[Armen]

SakuraSuki-You guys are really have night degree of tolerance on Apple. You guys really do, but I do not.

Let me explain something that you seem to not understand.

Apple is like a woman we all love. Her eyebrows may not be perfect, her nose may be slightly crooked but we love her enough as a whole person that we overlook those things.

You on the other hand complain and complain how she isn't perfect and should be perfect. There is no changing her. Either live with it or move on. I assure you the "other" women (Android) that you think is so perfect isn't it either because you're still here.

All you are doing with your threads is insulting the woman we love.

 

[Arran]

This is not really a valid argument. Most who would chose to go back would be happy to set up their phone as new and re-sync critical data like calendar, contacts and music. Everything else data wise is not critical. Those who save shsh Blobs had a simple way to go back and never had the problems you mention but even that has gradually been disabled by Apple.

You're making a lot of assumptions about what millions of other people would be happy with.