Canada iTMS November 30?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Matty-Andy said:
I don't think police is too strong... the Office de la langue francaise has officers who go out and do inspections for infractions against the language laws.

Oh man, they really do? ****, talk about paranoid.


Matty-Andy said:
Anyway, I don't think any other localization has 2 language options do they? In France you can't choose between English and French, it's just French. In the US you can't choose between English and Spanish... etc.

Didn't think about that one. But couldn't it be a simple language button/link, just like on apple.ca?

...

Oh. Crap.

If the holdup has anything to do with the Office de la langue française, we'll never hear the end of it (I also hate those bastards, in case you didn't notice).
 
Matty-Andy said:
I don't think police is too strong... the Office de la langue francaise has officers who go out and do inspections for infractions against the language laws.

I didn't actually expect to find this online, but here's something to explain it to non-Canadians: Quebec Language Police. It's worth the 4m15s investment. RealPlayer is required.

You can hear the rest of Royal Canadian Air Farce's albums' content at their website. I wonder if they actually manage to sell copies if they're effectively giving it away!
 
Matty-Andy said:
Anyway, I don't think any other localization has 2 language options do they? In France you can't choose between English and French, it's just French. In the US you can't choose between English and Spanish... etc.

the US is not officially bilingual, neither is France. Canada is.

however, apple.com/ca always has a link down to the bottom to swap to the French language site. and as they use French on the France itms, it can't be that big a deal to get both language pages together for the canada itms.

i really don't think that's what's holding them up :(
 
autopilot said:
the US is not officially bilingual, neither is France. Canada is.

however, apple.com/ca always has a link down to the bottom to swap to the French language site. and as they use French on the France itms, it can't be that big a deal to get both language pages together for the canada itms.

i really don't think that's what's holding them up :(


I agree. I would be willing to bet some licensing authority (CMRRA) or label threw a last minute wrench into the mix that has caused the delay. Nonetheless, statements were made by the company that it would launch and therefore it is only reasonable that they explain to their customer base what the delay is - even if they don't know when it will be resolved. Silence is not golden when you have this many disappointed customers.
 
autopilot said:
the US is not officially bilingual, neither is France. Canada is.

Granted. I just think that bilingual localization is not something they've done anywhere else... perhaps it's causing technical problems for them.
 
Oh. Crap.

If the holdup has anything to do with the Office de la langue française, we'll never hear the end of it (I also hate those bastards, in case you didn't notice).


Quebec's language law states that any Internet site hosted on a server in Quebec must be bilingual. If the site is hosted outside the province they have no jurisdiction... that said, the company may not want to alienate a market of over 6 million...however I would believe they anticipated localization as part of their launch strategy and would have included that in their estimate for a November launch. I really believe this has nothing to do with language...
 
Matty-Andy said:
Granted. I just think that bilingual localization is not something they've done anywhere else... perhaps it's causing technical problems for them.

could be, but i really think it has more to do with the labels :(
 
Matty-Andy said:
I don't think police is too strong... the Office de la langue francaise has officers who go out and do inspections for infractions against the language laws.

I thought they did away with those a while back, when folding the Office de la protection de la langue française into the regular OLF. Now, AFAIK, they check out complaints; they don't wander around looking for infractions. (And in case you're wondering, I think people who have time to make such complaints have waaaaay too much time on their hands.)

As for the online world, they've only ever taken action based on complaints from the public. And even then, it's always warning:deadline:warning:fine.

So IMO there's no way this issue could hold up the entire launch. BUT...It could lead to trouble down the road. Poke around the France store, and you'll find that there's much that hasn't been translated. It's either flagged as "en anglais" or simply not there. So unless Apple is going to invest a lot in translating artist bios and such (or sourcing equivalent French copy), I'd guess a lot of that text content is going to wind up simply unavailable in the Canada store. Or perhaps there will be some other arrangement...

(FYI, for anyone who's wondering what the law actually says: Quebec's Charter of the French Language says that if you have an office/store/warehouse in Quebec and you're selling to the Quebec public, then promo materials in French have to be at least equivalent to those in other languages. This part of the law doesn't reference the Web explicitly, but has been upheld as applying to the Web in numerous court cases. IF Apple Canada has no office/distribution facility etc. in Quebec, then any French content is provided as a courtesy; it's not legally required...and everything regarding the store becomes so much simpler.)

Anyway, I don't think any other localization has 2 language options do they? In France you can't choose between English and French, it's just French. In the US you can't choose between English and Spanish... etc.

You'd think they'd have worked out that techical issue a while ago. Wouldn't it be something along the lines of having two stores instead of one?
 
blame Canada

BCwaiting said:
I agree. I would be willing to bet some licensing authority (CMRRA) or label threw a last minute wrench into the mix that has caused the delay. Nonetheless, statements were made by the company that it would launch and therefore it is only reasonable that they explain to their customer base what the delay is - even if they don't know when it will be resolved. Silence is not golden when you have this many disappointed customers.

It's hard not to conclude that, having tried every other tactic in their book, Apple figured they might as well try a public announcement to get things moving. Obviously even that didn't get the industry bureaucrats off their asses. The Canadian music industry probably thinks they have little to lose by making Apple's life hard, but if iTMS becomes an international standard, Canadians will be left restricted to the technological equivalent of LP's and tape recorders while the rest of the world enjoys their CD's...

The bottom line is that the delay is unreasonable, and within Canada, only the Canadian music industry (CMRRA/CRIA) can possibly be to blame (as Apple Canada is merely a puppet of Apple US).
 
BCwaiting said:
Quebec's language law states that any Internet site hosted on a server in Quebec must be bilingual. If the site is hosted outside the province they have no jurisdiction... that said, the company may not want to alienate a market of over 6 million...however I would believe they anticipated localization as part of their launch strategy and would have included that in their estimate for a November launch. I really believe this has nothing to do with language...

The location-of-the-server argument was demolished in the courts years ago. The test is whether the company has an establishment in Quebec. If Apple Canada has even the tiniest office here, the Quebec language law applies. It they don't, it doesn't.
 
autopilot said:
could be, but i really think it has more to do with the labels :(

I agree.... but the major labels have already granted permission to PureTracks, for example, so this delay is likely the result of a dispute over royalty divisions or perhaps some concern over the how secure the iTunes distribution process is compared to other services like PureTracks. Don't forget, in Canada, the courts have already proven that it is difficult if not impossible for the industry to prosecute violators .....so everyone will want to be damn sure everything is secure before they throw the switch.

I'm guessin' here....
 
BCwaiting said:
Quebec's language law states that any Internet site hosted on a server in Quebec must be bilingual. If the site is hosted outside the province they have no jurisdiction...

Oh man, you've got to be kidding me. Talk about nutjobs. ;-)

I'm glad to be hosted by powweb.com
 
Hieronymus said:
The location-of-the-server argument was demolished in the courts years ago. The test is whether the company has an establishment in Quebec. If Apple Canada has even the tiniest office here, the Quebec language law applies. It they don't, it doesn't.

I believe that law only applies to the day-to-day operations and communications of that satellite office.

For example, if a major manufacturer in the US has a small sales office in Quebec, you can't tell me their entire .com web site is subject to French localization.

As far as French music content, Quebec already has the Archambault service which provides downloads for French language content.

Also Canadian consumer labeling laws state that any product that, by its nature, requires the user to understand English in order to benefit from the product, i.e. an English CD jacket or book.... does not require bilingual labelling. One could argue that only the part of the site that would offer French music would be required, by Canadian law anyway, to be bilingual.
 
BCWaiting said:
I believe that law only applies to the day-to-day operations and communications of that satellite office.

For example, if a major manufacturer in the US has a small sales office in Quebec, you can't tell me their entire .com web site is subject to French localization.

I researched this pretty extensively a few months ago. IF a company does business with the Quebec public, AND it has operations (even a small sales office) in Quebec, then Quebec law in general and language law in particular applies to it, including its website (which, for the purposes of the law, is considered the same as handing out a paper leaflet). So, yes, that US manufacturer either has to localize its whole site, or put up a pared-down site just for Quebec.

<http://www.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/english/infoguides/faqs/faqs_anglais.html#frequently> lays it out pretty clearly.

As far as French music content, Quebec already has the Archambault service which provides downloads for French language content.

The language law applies to sales/promotional materials, not creative content. An online music store based in Quebec could offer nothing but Japanese music without running afoul of the law, as long as its interface and promo materials were in French.

Also Canadian consumer labeling laws state that any product that, by its nature, requires the user to understand English in order to benefit from the product, i.e. an English CD jacket or book.... does not require bilingual labelling. One could argue that only the part of the site that would offer French music would be required, by Canadian law anyway, to be bilingual.

Interesting point about the CD jacket. The question then becomes whether, for the purposes of Quebec language law, the liner notes count as promotional material (vs. creative content). That's a tough one...but seeing as in Quebec you can sell a physical CD with liner notes in whatever language you please, you'd hope the same would apply online.

For the purposes of Canadian law, I'd be very surprised if anything made a bilingual iTMS a legal necessity.

A quick check of Canada411.com says Apple has no office in Quebec, so when the store does launch if there's any French it's probably there for one of two reasons: as a courtesy to the Francophone market segment, or as a way to make it possible to have a bricks-and-mortar store in Montreal without having to worry about the iTMS later.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Back
Top