Canon Digital Rebel XT/350D Announced.

[Moxiemike]

Agreed, I shot these the first week I had my Canon 300D with the stock 18-55mm kit lens. I believe they were all shot at 55mm. I would expect better results out of my new 28-105mm 3.5-4.5. I also had to scale them quite a bit to get them to upload.

They look a wee bit underexposed. You sure you didn't use an underesposing D70? 😉

Well Here's some lovin:

Underexposing D100 Pics:

 

[Moxiemike]

And some pics from that NOISY D2h:

Noisy D2h pics:

These at ISO 1600!

****PLEASE NOTE ALL OF THESE PHOTOS HAVE EITHER BEEN PUBLISHED OR SHOWN IN GALLERIES EXCEPT FOR THE ISO 1600 SHOT OF MY NEPHEW****

 

[iGary]

This is exactly why I stopped posting at DPREVIEW.

Silly arguing over gear, and less talk about how to take better pictures.

Just silly.

 

[Moxiemike]

a blind man can see it under exposes, post a picture taken with one and ask the mac rumors public, we all know what happened last time 🙄

So where's the underexposure on any of these shots? Kipe's magical 300d looks a full 2 stops underexposed. I think my stuff is pretty spot on.

😉

 

[jared_kipe]

I think you missed the point, you expect us to believe that #1 those are shot with something comparable to the D70's Kit lens, #2 that there was no photo manipulation to remove noise or otherwise?

I dissagree with at least the last two of my pictures, but like I explained earlier, they I never knew that they would one day be cratiqued by the great Moxie 🙄

Furthermore, I'm really surprised you have not been banned for all the **** you dish out on here. In a thread similar to this one a while back you said some pretty insulting things to a guy, and they were just removed. You should have been banned, no wait, you should be banned.

If my unpublished works don't stack up to yours, then I think I might have an explanation. It may surprise you but I'm not a professional photographer. 🙄

EDIT: and I just noticed someone edited your posts, I'm sure without evidence mine will be edited now too.

 

[Moxiemike]

I think you missed the point, you expect us to believe that #1 those are shot with something comparable to the D70's Kit lens, #2 that there was no photo manipulation to remove noise or otherwise?

The D100 batch was mostly shot with the Nikon 24-85G lens, almost identical to the kit lens, FYI. The birdman was shot with a cheapo sigma 70-300.

The D2h batch was mostly shot with the Sigma 24-70 f2.8 or the 35mm Nikkor prime. That said, lenses don't affect gross underexposure too much. 😉

I dissagree with at least the last two of my pictures, but like I explained earlier, they I never knew that they would one day be cratiqued by the great Moxie 🙄

You willingly posted. I just gave my comments. They're a bit soft and underexposed. No biggie. Just learn to use your tool a little bit better. 😛

It also shows that you're not really an informed shooter, and that potential people who want to buy into a system shouldn't listen to your critiques of either brand. I've used both, gotten similar results from both, and can honestly say that it's a wash. Especially for consumers who don't really need 8mp to print some 4x6's on their PictureMate (which is a STELLAR printer, BTW).

There's so many people online who don't know what goes into taking a good photo. They go about spreading misinformation and heresay only because they bought the latest and greatest from Canon or Nikon or Fuji or whoever.

Having used both systems, I can honestly say that the final image result is pretty even. Canon has some firmware issues and AF issues, Nikon has some noise issues. But it all evens out. You're talking about nails in Nikon's coffin, well, someone sent me a link (i'll try and find it) showing that since the 1d mkII came out, the D2h actually outsells it. ANYONE can manipulate marketing data.

Lastly, regarding image manipulation, sure I do retouch. That said, 99.9% of the professional photographers do as well. Even back in the film days. 😉 You post-process to get out any little pieces of dust and dirt that get picked up, you adjust the levels, you adjust the colors. Just like a DARKROOM! Neat concept, eh?

That said, you saying "manipulation" sounds like I went in and composited my photos. I don't do collages or composition photos. All of those are straight out of the camera, adjusted for levels and such, and made into jpgs. If you sent me an in focus 300d shot, I bet i could make it look the same. 😉

Furthermore, I'm really surprised you have not been banned for all the **** you dish out on here. In a thread similar to this one a while back you said some pretty insulting things to a guy, and they were just removed. You should have been banned, no wait, you should be banned.

Someone's a bit paranoid! God, it's just an internet forum. 🙂

If my unpublished works don't stack up to yours, then I think I might have an explanation. It may surprise you but I'm not a professional photographer. 🙄

Right. The only reason I posted these is that YOU made the comment that I don't do much shooting. 😉 Simply a reaction to show you that not only do I shoot quite a bit, but i'm also very well respected and published photographer. 😉

EDIT: and I just noticed someone edited your posts, I'm sure without evidence mine will be edited now too.

Again, PARANOIA. not a good way to go man.

 

[iGary]

So where's the underexposure on any of these shots? Kipe's magical 300d looks a full 2 stops underexposed. I think my stuff is pretty spot on.

😉

Well you kinda asked for it. Be nice, will ya?

In your first image, the highlights in the food case are blown out, and the shadow in the brick to the left are way underexposed. In fact, most of the shado detail is way underexposed. It's a hard shot to make with the bright background, though.

The next two shots are awesome, except the WB is way off.

I love your bird man pic, a classic "rule of thirds" image.

Pretty lousy bokeh on the last image.

For the next set of images:

I don't see a lot of noise, but I do see a nasty blue cast in most of those images, workable in curves in PS.

Instead of pushing out your chest, just try and be objective. You have some nice shots, but they are not all perfect as you'd lik to make them out to be. 😀

 

[Capt Underpants]

Agreed, I shot these the first week I had my Canon 300D with the stock 18-55mm kit lens. I believe they were all shot at 55mm. I would expect better results out of my new 28-105mm 3.5-4.5. I also had to scale them quite a bit to get them to upload.

Have one look at the pictures linked to in MoxieMike's sig? They are 10x better than those three...

 

[Bibulous]

I hope they don't ban Moxiemike, posts like his are why I read this forum 🙂

That Bird man shot is great, thanks for taking the time to post.

Funny, I just heard a saying while I type this - A poor carpenter blames his tools

 

[Moxiemike]

Well you kinda asked for it. Be nice, will ya?

In your first image, the highlights in the food case are blown out, and the shadow in the brick to the left are way underexposed. In fact, most of the shado detail is way underexposed. It's a hard shot to make with the bright background, though.

The next two shots are awesome, except the WB is way off.

I love your bird man pic, a classic "rule of thirds" image.

Pretty lousy bokeh on the last image.

For the next set of images:

I don't see a lot of noise, but I do see a nasty blue cast in most of those images, workable in curves in PS.

Instead of pushing out your chest, just try and be objective. You have some nice shots, but they are not all perfect as you'd lik to make them out to be. 😀

Lemme ask you how the white balance is off? On either one, at night, you go for the dominant color. In that case, I went for the bridge, which is that color yellow, and the sky which was the most dramatic. The reds from the car lights are both red. Not orange or purpley. That would suggest the WB is off.

The bird man pic is the noiseiest of the bunch, and the most successful. Haha. Go figure!

HOw do you figure the bokeh isn';t great? It's not perfect, no bokeh is, but it's an out of focus area still rendered pretty smoothly, which bokeh should be.

I'll agree with the pic of my nephew. Definite blu-ish cast. Was playing with the pringle cap method of setting white balance. Didn't work. Could have corrected it in PS CS but it's a snap of my nephew. So i don't worry about those so much. 🙂 Only so many hours!

The blues on the D2h are VERY strong, and I think that's evident in the girl pic with the sign-- surely blue casted there.

That last shot... man. A killer room with dark green marble pillars and low light for the fashion show. Most fashion shows go for either a bright background or all black. Usually the black background ones are lower budget ones where they don't have the cash for super lights. Makes for a difficult shoot. Had to pick something to expose for. It's tough. Same with the supermarket image. That was done with NO flash, kinda tough to meter in a supermarket with ANY DSLR as the DR just doesn't hold up. You're gonna either blow something or underexpose. Canon, Nikon, Kodak or Fuji....err... well, maybe not with Fuji nowadays. 🙂

I figured it was more important to get the dancers in focus and exposed, and worry about not overexposing the brick, as people would more than likely expect a little highlight overexposure on the case, as they're usually brighter than anything else in a supermarket. So yea, I realize the bricks have a lack of shadow detail, but with 5 stops available, whatcha gonna do? For a landscape, sure you could composite, but in this case, I didn't have that luxury.

Again, it's how one uses their tools. I knew upfront that I had a DR issue, I had a shutter speed issue, etc. BTW, that shot is ISO 800. So i also had a potential noise issue. So I decided to allow a lil' overexposure on the case, keep the dancers and the lighted coffee cups and bricks on the wall in range, and lose some shadow detail. It's not much. And i'm sure a seasoned canon shooter would have done the same.

😉

 

[Moxiemike]

I hope they don't ban Moxiemike, posts like his are why I read this forum 🙂

That Bird man shot is great, thanks for taking the time to post.

Funny, I just heard a saying while I type this - A poor carpenter blames his tools

Thanks. People only get nasty and pissy because they know it's the truth. And the truth hurts. 😉

Have one look at the pictures linked to in MoxieMike's sig? They are 10x better than those three...

Thanks. I think they're pretty nice too. 🙂 I've spent a lot of hours and take a lot of pride in my craft.

m

 

[iGary]

Lemme ask you how the white balance is off? On either one, at night, you go for the dominant color. In that case, I went for the bridge, which is that color yellow, and the sky which was the most dramatic. The reds from the car lights are both red. Not orange or purpley. That would suggest the WB is off.

The bird man pic is the noiseiest of the bunch, and the most successful. Haha. Go figure!

HOw do you figure the bokeh isn';t great? It's not perfect, no bokeh is, but it's an out of focus area still rendered pretty smoothly, which bokeh should be.

I'll agree with the pic of my nephew. Definite blu-ish cast. Was playing with the pringle cap method of setting white balance. Didn't work. Could have corrected it in PS CS but it's a snap of my nephew. So i don't worry about those so much. 🙂 Only so many hours!

The blues on the D2h are VERY strong, and I think that's evident in the girl pic with the sign-- surely blue casted there.

That last shot... man. A killer room with dark green marble pillars and low light for the fashion show. Most fashion shows go for either a bright background or all black. Usually the black background ones are lower budget ones where they don't have the cash for super lights. Makes for a difficult shoot. Had to pick something to expose for. It's tough. Same with the supermarket image. That was done with NO flash, kinda tough to meter in a supermarket with ANY DSLR as the DR just doesn't hold up. You're gonna either blow something or underexpose. Canon, Nikon, Kodak or Fuji....err... well, maybe not with Fuji nowadays. 🙂

I figured it was more important to get the dancers in focus and exposed, and worry about not overexposing the brick, as people would more than likely expect a little highlight overexposure on the case, as they're usually brighter than anything else in a supermarket. So yea, I realize the bricks have a lack of shadow detail, but with 5 stops available, whatcha gonna do? For a landscape, sure you could composite, but in this case, I didn't have that luxury.

Again, it's how one uses their tools. I knew upfront that I had a DR issue, I had a shutter speed issue, etc. BTW, that shot is ISO 800. So i also had a potential noise issue. So I decided to allow a lil' overexposure on the case, keep the dancers and the lighted coffee cups and bricks on the wall in range, and lose some shadow detail. It's not much. And i'm sure a seasoned canon shooter would have done the same.

😉

I agree with everything you said, but I've found some of my evening exposures come a little more alive with th WB tool (if shot in RAW) - just a lot of yellow in yours, which may have been your desired effect. 🙂

By the way, I owned a 300D and hated it, absolutely HATED it.

Since I had a few thousand dollars in glass, I decided to get a 20D, which Canon made leaps and bounds on.

I shoot aerials with a guy who has a Nikon D2H, and I will admit, Nikon's metering system is better than Canon's, but with the 20D and the newer 1D and 1DS models, that has been immensly improved. The first three shots with my 20D just amazed me - the noise levels of the old 10D and especially the 300D are just about gone.

Truth be told, I see all sorts of AMAZING images taken with Canon and Nikon glass, I couldn't tell you the difference and wouldn't argue, but Canon's L Glass is legendary.

I'm really happy I got rid of my Rebel, and wouldn't touch a 350 with a big long monopod. Very happy with my 20D and my L Glass, but like they say, it is all in the user (mostly 🙂)

 

[akboarder24]

...

Thanks. People only get nasty and pissy because they know it's the truth. And the truth hurts. 😉



Thanks. I think they're pretty nice too. 🙂 I've spent a lot of hours and take a lot of pride in my craft.

m

Moxie, those pics are great, and it sure looks like you know how to utilize that camera! As far as noise issues, they look amazing @ 1600 iso! now, it doesn't matter what electronics you're using, adding your own touch in the digi darkroom (ahem...PS) is not that hard nor time consuming. shooting raw is a little more work, but it's like working with a roll of undeveloped film. Having a dslr also helped me understand film a lot more, to look at it in a different light, and frankly, film is more cost-effecient and practical to use for certain photographic applications. With the extreme price drops in the film market, I'm currently searching for a fast (fps) film body with a great sync that I would never have been able to come upon!
Keep it up Moxie, you're motivating me to shoot again!

 

[Moxiemike]

I agree with everything you said, but I've found some of my evening exposures come a little more alive with th WB tool (if shot in RAW) - just a lot of yellow in yours, which may have been your desired effect. 🙂

By the way, I owned a 300D and hated it, absolutely HATED it.

Since I had a few thousand dollars in glass, I decided to get a 20D, which Canon made leaps and bounds on.

I shoot aerials with a guy who has a Nikon D2H, and I will admit, Nikon's metering system is better than Canon's, but with the 20D and the newer 1D and 1DS models, that has been immensly improved. The first three shots with my 20D just amazed me - the noise levels of the old 10D and especially the 300D are just about gone.

Truth be told, I see all sorts of AMAZING images taken with Canon and Nikon glass, I couldn't tell you the difference and wouldn't argue, but Canon's L Glass is legendary.

I'm really happy I got rid of my Rebel, and wouldn't touch a 350 with a big long monopod. Very happy with my 20D and my L Glass, but like they say, it is all in the user (mostly 🙂)

Yea. Sometimes I go for a yellowish WB, especially at some parts of the city where there's yellow bridges, that end up looking gray with a more neutral WB. It's a tough city, with tungsten and flourescent all over the place.

That said, the D2h (which that wasn't shot with) does a nice job with customizable WB, in Kelvin, which is a HUGE help in night shots. That said, i'm still learning how the D2h does night shots (got it amonth ago) and i'm waiting for a remote. Now I will complain that Nikon didn't include a screw area for a traditional cable release on the D2 series!

But from what I can see, at 30 sec exposures, at ISO 200-640, there's no noise. Which rocks hard for nighttime shooting.

m

 

[iGary]

Yea. Sometimes I go for a yellowish WB, especially at some parts of the city where there's yellow bridges, that end up looking gray with a more neutral WB. It's a tough city, with tungsten and flourescent all over the place.

That said, the D2h (which that wasn't shot with) does a nice job with customizable WB, in Kelvin, which is a HUGE help in night shots. That said, i'm still learning how the D2h does night shots (got it amonth ago) and i'm waiting for a remote. Now I will complain that Nikon didn't include a screw area for a traditional cable release on the D2 series!

But from what I can see, at 30 sec exposures, at ISO 200-640, there's no noise. Which rocks hard for nighttime shooting.

m

The 20D has some really nice custromizable WB features (in Kelvin, and in color spaces), which I am very anxious to play with.

If only I didn't have to work so much.

On another note, the 300D is not a horrible camera (although very noisy at 400 and above as seen below), even though I hated it:

 

[Moxiemike]

The 20D has some really nice custromizable WB features (in Kelvin, and in color spaces), which I am very anxious to play with.

If only I didn't have to work so much.

On another note, the 300D is not a horrible camera (although very noisy at 400 and above as seen below), even though I hated it:

You know, I saw the samples for the 350 and it's pretty noisy at ISO 200. Seems like they don't do all the in cam NR on the rebel series.

Blah.

Nice shooting by the way. Good DR and exposure latitude

m

 

[iGary]

Thanks...

All in all, I always recommend (even now) that people spend the extra bucks for the 20D, less they do what I did and buy the Rebel, and then sell (thank GOD I sold it a couple of weeks ago, or it would have been worth dirt now).

I just don't think a plastic camera is worth a grand, when you can have a full featured one for a few hundred more.

Canons and Nikons both have their strong and week spots. The neat thing is, you get to be a better photographer learning how to work around them.

I'm a much better exposure photographer than I used to be because of Canon's less-than intuitive metering, My Nikon buddy has his own strengths based on his cameras low spots...

It's all good. As long as we all share.

 

[Moxiemike]

Thanks...

All in all, I always recommend (even now) that people spend the extra bucks for the 20D, less they do what I did and buy the Rebel, and then sell (thank GOD I sold it a couple of weeks ago, or it would have been worth dirt now).

I just don't think a plastic camera is worth a grand, when you can have a full featured one for a few hundred more.

Canons and Nikons both have their strong and week spots. The neat thing is, you get to be a better photographer learning how to work around them.

I'm a much better exposure photographer than I used to be because of Canon's less-than intuitive metering, My Nikon buddy has his own strengths based on his cameras low spots...

It's all good. As long as we all share.

Yea. I agree. From my time with Canon's, I found myself adjusting, only to go back home and be confused a bit. Haha.

I thinkthat the DSLR's force us ALL to better exposure photographers, since the DR range is so limited regardless of what system you use. In canon you have to workaround the inefficiencies of the system, in Nikon you expose for noise and highlights.

Regardless, you always need to shoot RAW and post-process. Haha

 

[Moxiemike]

Gary. How's this D2h evening exposure from a few nights ago? Gimme your thoughts.

I'm really impressed at your metering skills with those rebel shots--obviously you're not using spot meter (none on some canons!?! Why! That ALWAYS got me about canon).

What's your trick? I usually go with spot for landscape and asjust EC from there, or do matrix for event/wedding with flash or studio lights. Matrix metering on the D2h is a GODSEND. Works SO much better than the D100....

FYI. D2h. 24-70 set at 70mm I think, f11, ISO 200, maybe a 4 second exposure?

not sure of the all the settings too lazy to check EXIF. 😉

m

 

[iGary]

Gary. How's this D2h evening exposure from a few nights ago?

FYI. D2h. 24-70 set at 70mm I think, f11, ISO 200, maybe a 4 second exposure?

not sure of the all the settings too lazy to check EXIF. 😉

m

Very nice, only a little blowout in a couple of the white lights, but I'm being EXTREMELY picky.

I like how there is still a nice blue cast in the sky, good DOF.

Purty.

 

[iGary]

Which reminds, me I need to order a shutter remote. I keep forgetting. 🙄

The 20D uses a different release.

 

[Moxiemike]

Which reminds, me I need to order a shutter remote. I keep forgetting. 🙄

The 20D uses a different release.

I'll tell you, I have a manual cable release, theplunger style, from my Nikon FM/Canon AE10's that I have. It works on the D100, which has a threaded shutter. Glory be if these guys would just leave that ONE THING alone. 😉

You can grab a nice minolta one for like, $15. More $ to spend on lenses.

Which lenses are you using on your EOS? The funniest thing about this canon/nikon debate? I'm thinking about picking up a used 10d just for the helluva it. You can grab 'em on ebay for like, $500 now!

That's one thing about nikon-- their slower product releases mean their stuff holds value more. Kinda like apple in that regard....

Although there was that D2h price drop. Hah.

Yea. Couple of blown highlights in the lights. Tough to keep 'em in range with that many lights. The DOF surprised me-- didn't think the Sigma was really capable of that kinda image. Impressed me for sure.

Best part? Sold about 25 of these as 24x36 posters for various client's walls. What a great feeling! They love the "alternate" view of the city. They didn't seem to mind that it was "only" a 4mp camera. Imagine that!

 

[iGary]

I'll tell you, I have a manual cable release, theplunger style, from my Nikon FM/Canon AE10's that I have. It works on the D100, which has a threaded shutter. Glory be if these guys would just leave that ONE THING alone. 😉

You can grab a nice minolta one for like, $15. More $ to spend on lenses.

Which lenses are you using on your EOS? The funniest thing about this canon/nikon debate? I'm thinking about picking up a used 10d just for the helluva it. You can grab 'em on ebay for like, $500 now!

That's one thing about nikon-- their slower product releases mean their stuff holds value more. Kinda like apple in that regard....

Although there was that D2h price drop. Hah.

Yea. Couple of blown highlights in the lights. Tough to keep 'em in range with that many lights. The DOF surprised me-- didn't think the Sigma was really capable of that kinda image. Impressed me for sure.

Best part? Sold about 25 of these as 24x36 posters for various client's walls. What a great feeling! They love the "alternate" view of the city. They didn't seem to mind that it was "only" a 4mp camera. Imagine that!

For wide angle I have the Sigma EX 12-24 f4.5-5.6, a lens I absoluetly love.

I also have the kit 18-55, which does not get much use, but is not a bad lens at all.

I use the 28-135 IS USM for some hand-held low light shots, which it really excells at with IS.

My walk around lens is the EF 24-70 f2.8L - what can I say? An awesome piece of glass.

I have an EF 75-300 IS USM that I need to sell - soft and grainy.

I have an EF 100-400 IS USM L - No complaints here, but a bit slow - what can I ask for, it's a zoom.

And lastly, the infamous 50 f1.8 II

I really need to sell the 75-300 and 28-135 and get a 17-40L, but I'm thinking of putting those toward the G5 fund. 😀

 

[Moxiemike]

For wide angle I have the Sigma EX 12-24 f4.5-5.6, a lens I absoluetly love.

I also have the kit 18-55, which does not get much use, but is not a bad lens at all.

I use the 28-135 IS USM for some hand-held low light shots, which it really excells at with IS.

My walk around lens is the EF 24-70 f2.8L - what can I say? An awesome piece of glass.

I have an EF 75-300 IS USM that I need to sell - soft and grainy.

I have an EF 100-400 IS USM L - No complaints here, but a bit slow - what can I ask for, it's a zoom.

And lastly, the infamous 50 f1.8 II

I really need to sell the 75-300 and 28-135 and get a 17-40L, but I'm thinking of putting those toward the G5 fund. 😀

My friend's 18-55 sucked! haha. Found it soft at all apertures and just not a good sample. I guess for $100.....

The Sigma is a nice lens. I ended up with the NIkkor 12-24 (went into a Ritz to order the Sigma, walked out with the 12-24, which they had in stock.) Have taken some HOT pics with it.

The Nikkor 50 1.8 is a great lens too-- and cheap. I paid $59 for mine, and it's arguably the sharpest lens in my kit.

The EF 100-400 would be the lens I would love to see Nikon make. Yours is an f4 right? Constant aperture? That's a killer piece.

I have the Sigma 70-200 f2.8 and the Sigma 24-70 f2.8 right now, though I'm thinking I might take my tax return and get something you Canon guy's don't have: the 17-55 f2.8 Nikkor DX lens. What an incredible piece of gear. Not cheap, but n the D2h/x it's INCREDIBLY fast focusing, silent, and sharp even at F2.8.

I also have a 50mm Sigma macro. Buy this for $199 if you don't have one already. It's INSANE. My favorite lens though, is my 35mm f2.0 prime. I keep this on my D2h for the events I cover for this magazine, which is mostly party-pix. It's equivalent to a 50mm, gets SHARP images and allows me to fit people/full length people in perfect focus. I end up carrying my cam around with that lens on it 99.9% of the time. Weird choice, I know, and alot of people look at me funny, with this BIG (D2h is large!) camera and a teeny tiny lens that doesn't zoom.

One other canon i'm a lil' intrigued by is the 70-300 with the DXO optics. Looks tiny, and from what I hear, the image quality is comparable to the 70-200 USM IS F2.8.

Have you seen the Nikon 200mm F2.0 prime with AFS (usm equiv) and VR (is equiv)? I was thinking: D2x, in sports mode (2.0x crop, 8fps) with that lens would make it a 400mm f2.0 with VR. Add a 2.0 teleconverter? You have an 800mm f4 lens with VR and AFS. Now that's almost worth $4000.00.

Nikkor 200mm f2.0

Someone somewhere said the FOV crop is a sign of a "low end" DSLR. Looking at these stats, I think it's, in many ways, a digital revolution. Why not do FOV crops, even on FF cams as sports modes, extending teles for sports and wildlife guys.

That feature alone makes the D2x worth it to me.

Here's a sample from the sigma 70-200. Have you heard about this lens? Great bargain, for sure!

 

[Jon'sLightBulbs]

Shutter release cable? Shutter release remote? Threaded shutters?

How about just using the timer? Sure, you'll have to wait 5 seconds, but if your exposure length is long enough to be that worried about camera shake, sponteneity is clearly not at issue.