Canon Digital Rebel XT/350D Announced.

[kaylie_kipe]

Really MoxieMike, I don't see what your problem is. Him saying this is "the nail in Nikon's coffin" meant nothing other then Cannon's back on top for now. And because he said that you start posting about how he is a troll and doesn't know anything about photography, followed by pictures that you want everyone to worship. Yes, some of them are good pictures and some of them are not, but you also have to take into account that you are a professional photographer. Jared never claimed to be a professional photographer or an expert on digital cameras (hell, he just got his 2 months ago), you just assumed that he thought he was and so continued to insult him. This is not about who's a better photographer or who can post the most insults in one thread, it's about a camera. That is what the thread started out as and that's the way it should stay.

 

[Moxiemike]

Really MoxieMike, I don't see what your problem is. Him saying this is "the nail in Nikon's coffin" meant nothing other then Cannon's back on top for now. And because he said that you start posting about how he is a troll and doesn't know anything about photography, followed by pictures that you want everyone to worship. Yes, some of them are good pictures and some of them are not, but you also have to take into account that you are a professional photographer. Jared never claimed to be a professional photographer or an expert on digital cameras (hell, he just got his 2 months ago), you just assumed that he thought he was and so continued to insult him. This is not about who's a better photographer or who can post the most insults in one thread, it's about a camera. That is what the thread started out as and that's the way it should stay.

Nah. You're wrong. We're in a buying tips forum. He's spreading a decent deal of BS about cameras, without really knowing what he's talking about. You presented and proved that.

That's irresponsible, IMHO, to the people who come here and use this forum to make purchasing decisions. All i'm trying to do is prove that regardless of which system you choose, if you learn stuff the right way, you'll get stellar results. 🙂

m

 

[kaylie_kipe]

That's irresponsible, IMHO, to the people who come here and use this forum to make purchasing decisions. All i'm trying to do is prove that regardless of which system you choose, if you learn stuff the right way, you'll get stellar results. 🙂

m

But this didn't start out as him saying that the Cannon was great or anything of the sort. He simply put a link to DPreview for people to read it and make up their own minds about the camera.

 

[Moxiemike]

But this didn't start out as him saying that the Cannon was great or anything of the sort. He simply put a link to DPreview for people to read it and make up their own minds about the camera.

Wrong again. He claimed it was the "nail in nikon's coffin" implying Nikon isn't a stable corporation, and he also spread some mis-information about the D70 before I joined the thread.

 

[jared_kipe]

Wrong again. He claimed it was the "nail in nikon's coffin" implying Nikon isn't a stable corporation, and he also spread some mis-information about the D70 before I joined the thread.

Spread some misinformation? Your argument for the D70 being designed off the D2H wasn't exactly convincing. And if you're talking about me saying the D70 has a CMOS, big deal whine about it all the way to getting banned.

 

[absolut_mac]

Not sure about the machines Kodak uses, but many of the newer mini-labs are going from analog-to-digital for printing. And in the process they are using sharpening routines that really add some "punch" to the images.

I haven't seen the latest Kodak machines up close, but I have seen the results from them, and they're pretty impressive. Especially considering that my daughter used an inexpensive Canon APS film camera. These were from the One-hour Photo in the Walgreens in my neighborhood.

More than likely it's a combination of regular film printing - the prints certainly look that way - with prior digital manipulation of color, lighting and exposure settings.

 

[Moxiemike]

Spread some misinformation? Your argument for the D70 being designed off the D2H wasn't exactly convincing. And if you're talking about me saying the D70 has a CMOS, big deal whine about it all the way to getting banned.

But, my friend, it IS based, in part, offthe D2h. Metering. iTTL. It's also based off the n75.

You're really convinced on getting me banned, eh? Try it. I've tried to be nice to you. You've proven yourself a true troll. Have a good one. I have an assignment to shoot. 😉

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Nah. You're wrong. We're in a buying tips forum. He's spreading a decent deal of BS about cameras, without really knowing what he's talking about. You presented and proved that.

That's irresponsible, IMHO, to the people who come here and use this forum to make purchasing decisions. All i'm trying to do is prove that regardless of which system you choose, if you learn stuff the right way, you'll get stellar results. 🙂

m

The problem is Mike is that it is hard to peg the Nikon lineup at the consumer level verses the Canon at the same level. My customers see a clear difference between the DRebel and the 10D or 20D. As they might with the DRebel XT. To Nikons credit it hard to see a difference between the actual bodies between the D70 and the D100.

And as a buying tips forum you have decidedly gone towards Nikon and single focal length lenses. Ignoring that many users might not see the benefit from one choice over the other.

In the end it is great to see that you are agreeing that the camera choice is just a tool to the end means. Not everyone needs a $1000 table saw when a $10 hacksaw will do.

 

[Mord]

But, my friend, it IS based, in part, offthe D2h. Metering. iTTL. It's also based off the n75.

You're really convinced on getting me banned, eh? Try it. I've tried to be nice to you. You've proven yourself a true troll. Have a good one. I have an assignment to shoot. 😉

if that was you being nice i dont want to be on the same planet as you being nasty. 🙄

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

I haven't seen the latest Kodak machines up close, but I have seen the results from them, and they're pretty impressive. Especially considering that my daughter used an inexpensive Canon APS film camera. These were from the One-hour Photo in the Walgreens in my neighborhood.

More than likely it's a combination of regular film printing - the prints certainly look that way - with prior digital manipulation of color, lighting and exposure settings.

You are right on this. Some machines are taking film and scanning them in before printing on conventional paper. AFIK the Fuji Frontier units do this, as well as some Noritsu units. That is why some labs can offer dirt cheap scanning of film to digital.

 

[Bhennies]

A point Moxie made earlier about the iTTL is enough reason alone to go Nikon. The flash system is simply amazing.

Plus has no one else mentioned that the Nikon mount keeps the door open for future Fuji offerings? (the s3 is pretty damn nice).

p.s. I own a d70 (chose it over the 20D- I tested with both) and couldn't be happier. My budget would have allowed up to 3,000 on a DSLR body (almost got the s3), but I chose to get the d70 (because it does the trick) and save my money for glass and new lenses for my 4x5 (which is the still the king of image quality hands down- expect for maybe an 8x10 or 20x24 view camera🙂).

 

[Moxiemike]

The problem is Mike is that it is hard to peg the Nikon lineup at the consumer level verses the Canon at the same level. My customers see a clear difference between the DRebel and the 10D or 20D. As they might with the DRebel XT. To Nikons credit it hard to see a difference between the actual bodies between the D70 and the D100.

And as a buying tips forum you have decidedly gone towards Nikon and single focal length lenses. Ignoring that many users might not see the benefit from one choice over the other.

In the end it is great to see that you are agreeing that the camera choice is just a tool to the end means. Not everyone needs a $1000 table saw when a $10 hacksaw will do.

The reason it's hard to peg the D70 as a consumer camera is because it's that good! The feature set looks alot like the previously $4000 d1x, and the price is not much more than the Drebel ($999 for the XT now, vs $1099 after rebate for the Nikon, with an INFINITELY better lens!)

That and you get 1/500 flash sync, flash exposure compensation, and iTTL. Which is reason enough for ANY PRO OR CONSUMER to go Nikon. The flexibility of that system is incredible. If you go image quality for image quality, we';ve determined there's not much difference. It's the little things like that which make the D70 a better choice over the previous rebel, which you have to crack firmware just to get one fifth of those features!

Now the XT might be on par, but honestly, the consumer who needs 8mp is far and few between. So it's still a wash, as the D70 still has all of the stuff mentioned before, and the canon has an extra 2mp and some features which SHOULD HAVE been allowed in the previous version.

So while before I definitely think the D70 kicked the old rebel's buttocks, I think it holds its own with the new rebel.

It's brilliant when you think about it: Price it near the Drebel, make it more robust that it competes with the 10d. Perfect. When you don't have the R&D, consolidate! I'm sure the D90/D200 or whatever it's called will do the same thing.

All told, I think the 10d/20d canon's are great cams. Just don't buy into the Rebel series which is mostly marketing hype IMHO. Showing soccer mom's capturing sports shots that could be in SI is preposterous with the rebel. it's just too slow!

That;s why i'm pro-nikon. Professional? The 1d MK II is a compelling choice. I wanna see what the D2x does before passing judgement. That said, the 1d MK II doesn't have iTTL. Which is just *THAT* good. I think it's Nikon's itunes. 🙂

And yes, primes will demolish most zooms in image quality. when an amatuer asks for advice on which lens to buy i'm recommending a 50mm before i recommend a 28-200. The 50 will get 'em better images and make 'em learn a bit more about composition. andit's all about taking great pics, right?

 

[mvc]

... andit's all about taking great pics, right?

Apparently, but you'd never be able to tell from this thread 🙄

I've gotta say, I thought Mac/PC flame wars were hot, but Canon/Nikon is in a new league of zealotry.

And, BTW, Currently using a D70 (nice), but soon buying either a 20D or maybe a 350 if its up to par.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

A point Moxie made earlier about the iTTL is enough reason alone to go Nikon. The flash system is simply amazing.

Plus has no one else mentioned that the Nikon mount keeps the door open for future Fuji offerings? (the s3 is pretty damn nice).

iTTL is great, but so is the new E-TTL II from Canon, or even the TTL flash system from Minolta. Even with the "old" TTL systems we would be hard pressed to see a real difference between the systems.

Careful on the comments about the Nikon mount system. I did get a report from a customer about the Fuji S3 and the use of the 17-55 or 18-70 on it. I have not researched this as of yet, so I do not pass this on as fact. Though the customer did say the S3 manual mentions it expressly.

Though I do find it funny just how close the Olympus 4/3 system mount is to the Canon EOS mount. Nikon should be given "props" for a mount that has been able so far to stand the test of time.

 

[Bhennies]

Careful on the comments about the Nikon mount system.

hi there. not sure what you mean...the Fuji S3 is made with a Nikon body and takes Nikon glass exclusively. A beast of a camera I might add. Amazing image quality.

The only "3rd party" DSLR that comes in both NIkon and Canon mount (that I know of) is the Kodak and it sucks.

Since there's a lot of talk about Nikon and Canon purists (and their assumed allegiance to heir brands), I thought I'd add that I own a Canon sd20, and s230 and find them superior to the Nikon point and shoots. IMHO.

 

[bousozoku]

Here's a thought: this thread could offer some really good advice. It may have some but it's truly tough to find any of it because everything is laced with nastiness.

I'd ask that you all get back to business and keep the nastiness to zero. If you have a fact, state it. If you have an opinion, try to give it without telling us that "my camera will beat up your camera" because it just isn't helping anyone.

Thanks for your immediate cooperation.

 

[iGary]

I do think the new Rebel does place it on a level more equal with the Nikon D70, yet the Nikon still is without ISO 100, which some people think is a big deal.

I've read both Phil Askey's comments and Fred Miranda's comments and the both say there are no discernable image difference when you compare the two cameras. Period.

As far as iTTL (Nikon) goes, Canon has E-TTLII, which when combined with a good gun like the 580EX is absolutely amazing. I'm sure Nikon's is good, but it certainly isn't a Napster vs. iTunes kind of comparison. The D70 does have a 1/500 flash sync, which beats even the 20D handily.

As far as sharpness, I've seen a 50/50 mix on aliasing from the 15 or so reviews (magazine and online) - so call it a tie. Any DSLR photographer will tell you that almost any image file can use even a little USM right out of the camera.

And as far as glass goes, Canon is legendary for their L Glass (I'd put either of mine up against Nikon any day), but Nikon has their standouts, too.

End of the day, both manufacturers make nice cameras, both high and low end.

I'm glad Canon came out with the 350D because it addressed some of the miserable issues with the "old" 300D camera:

1. 3 second start up time - I can't tell you how many shots I missed.

2. Larger FPS and buffer - the old 3 FPS and small buffer was miserable. Try shootign that camera in RAW and you'll end up sittting and waiting for it to write for a good 20 seconds. MISERABLE.

3. Hopefully the new sensor will address some of the noise issues, and I know that the DIGIC 2 processor does improve on the white balance.

The 300D was/is a decent camera, but in comparison to the D70, it was a little silly. Some people stand by their Rebels and make excellent captures with them - I took some awesome shots with mine, but at the end of the day, I really wasn't impressed. I've loved my 20D from the minute I took it out of the box; it gives me the feel, control, speed and feautures I need to make a small side living taking pictures - that's all I needed.

I think the competition has narrowed with the 350D and the D70, though.

Happy shooting everyone.

😀

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

hi there. not sure what you mean...the Fuji S3 is made with a Nikon body and takes Nikon glass exclusively. A beast of a camera I might add. Amazing image quality.

The S3 is a great camera. The issue with the lens mentioned came from a customer that said that the incompatibility was listed by Fuji themselves. I do want to research the issue, and hope I made it clear that I question the validity of the claim. On the surface it does not make sense.

 

[stockscalper]

The reason it's hard to peg the D70 as a consumer camera is because it's that good!

You're joking right? I mean all this trolling you are doing on the board for Nikon is done with tongue in cheek? The Nikon is nowhere near the quality of the Canons. Have you compared pictures made with the two cameras? At 200 or 400 ISO the Nikon pics at 8 x 10 are unusable with extreme noise. The Canon (yes even the old Rebel) are virtually noise free. Not to mention the horrible tunneling effect the Nikons suffer from.

 

[Moxiemike]

You're joking right? I mean all this trolling you are doing on the board for Nikon is done with tongue in cheek? The Nikon is nowhere near the quality of the Canons. Have you compared pictures made with the two cameras? At 200 or 400 ISO the Nikon pics at 8 x 10 are unusable with extreme noise. The Canon (yes even the old Rebel) are virtually noise free. Not to mention the horrible tunneling effect the Nikons suffer from.

Horrible tunneling effect? WTF are you talking about? My highest selling print is a 24x36 print of Pittsburgh's skyline, shot with my friend's D70 at ISO 400. There's hardly any noise to speak of in that print.

And you're calling ME a troll? Canon's are not noise free, let me tell you. The 10d I had had MAJOR noise issues at ISO 800 and 1600, and all in all, if you don't expose correctly with EITHER brand, you face noise issues.


But please explain the "tunneling" effect. This is a new one to me. I need a good monday laugh. 😉

 

[Moxiemike]

The S3 is a great camera. The issue with the lens mentioned came from a customer that said that the incompatibility was listed by Fuji themselves. I do want to research the issue, and hope I made it clear that I question the validity of the claim. On the surface it does not make sense.

Did a lil' diggin' on the incompatibility issue, and I found out that the only incompatibility with the 17-55 and 18-70 (as well as 12-24dx, 28-70 AF-S, 17-35 AF-S, and the 24-120 AF-S VR) is the inability to use an AF-I/AF-S teleconverter, which with these lenses you'd probably not want to use a TC with them-- might hit the back elements.

Sounds like he might have a bad model. I also called Fuji on this (as i'm supposed to test an S3 for a few weeks! Yay!) and they said "no problem" for those lenses.

 

[bousozoku]

I see that we just can't get along and/or we can't read properly. Sorry to say but that's enough.