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Originally posted by revenuee
nice pic

but the one thing about the sigma is that they are slightly faster lenses ... i travel quite a bit with my camera and i'm in church's/buildings where flash is not permitted.

thoughts?

Ah. Yes. That makes total sense. So you'd need the faster aperture used in conjunction with say, iSO 800 or something.

I'd say you might be better off with the fast sigma zoom.

I might get say, a cheapish (the nikon or sigma 24-XX) midrange zoom, not spending more than $300 on it and couple it with say, a 35mm f2.0, 50mm 1.8 and 85 f1.8 from Nikon for the speed. The 50 and 35 could fit in your pockets!

Then use the zoom for all purpose shooting and snapshot type stuff.....
 
Yeah, I agree with you. MoxieMike has some insecurities about his decision to go with Nikon and feels the need to prove it to everyone how much better Nikon is than Canon. When the 300D first came out he had a serious case of "Canon Envy" and was posting in other threads what a lousy deal it was. Saying that this new Nikon will "blow it away" is just laughable.

I'm not going to obsess over the specs and analyze everything. The proof is in the photography. I take fantastic photos with my 300D and all my AF lenses. It's just silly to put down what Canon did with a sub $1000 digital SLR.

Nikon make fantastic cameras. Maybe better than Canon, I really don't know or care. At our level, spending a couple grand for a body and lenses, it's just ridiculous to debate which is a better make. I say get out there and take some pictures and be happy with your purchases. You can't go wrong with either Canon or Nikon. They're both really that good.




Originally posted by kettle
...the essence of the whole thread, my pinhole camera is made from a tin x inches longer than your pinhole camera.

Tools are very important, but the tool holding the camera is the most important thing. Our methods for capturing moments will change in the future and this discussion will be like asking which size brush is best for painting silver nitrate plates with.



Well, in a similar light, I would say "My dad's got a bigger gun than your dad."

Cheer up poppet! :)
 
Originally posted by Moxiemike
Ah. Yes. That makes total sense. So you'd need the faster aperture used in conjunction with say, iSO 800 or something.

I'd say you might be better off with the fast sigma zoom.

I might get say, a cheapish (the nikon or sigma 24-XX) midrange zoom, not spending more than $300 on it and couple it with say, a 35mm f2.0, 50mm 1.8 and 85 f1.8 from Nikon for the speed. The 50 and 35 could fit in your pockets!

Then use the zoom for all purpose shooting and snapshot type stuff.....

well i already have the Nikon 35 - 80mm 4 - 5.6 ... seems logical to keep it as an all purpose in that equation
 
Originally posted by andrewh
Yeah, I agree with you. MoxieMike has some insecurities about his decision to go with Nikon and feels the need to prove it to everyone how much better Nikon is than Canon. When the 300D first came out he had a serious case of "Canon Envy" and was posting in other threads what a lousy deal it was. Saying that this new Nikon will "blow it away" is just laughable.

I'm not going to obsess over the specs and analyze everything. The proof is in the photography. I take fantastic photos with my 300D and all my AF lenses. It's just silly to put down what Canon did with a sub $1000 digital SLR.

Nikon make fantastic cameras. Maybe better than Canon, I really don't know or care. At our level, spending a couple grand for a body and lenses, it's just ridiculous to debate which is a better make. I say get out there and take some pictures and be happy with your purchases. You can't go wrong with either Canon or Nikon. They're both really that good.


Actually, you're wrong. I posted a review of the 300d that was very favourable, thought since i've realized major issues with the lens.

That said, the canon's semi-por DSLRS all seem to suffer from focusing issues, and if you go out on a pro job, they often seem to prevent you from completing the job.

I like my Nikon because the image quality is comparable to the best cam's out there, and the focusing is dead on. Always.

That and the build of the Nikon is higher than the 300d and similar to the 10d and it makes me "forget' that I'm using it. It's transparent, and allows me, as a photographer, to worry abotu the image.

Too many people I know who have canons complain of front focusing and back focusing, of issues with the rebel's kit lens, of build quality issues (someone put a canon 70-200 lens on the rebel and it pulled the lens mount off!), and general lack of quality at ISO 1600 to make me realize how much my nikon allows me to forget it is there and just take pics!

I know one Canon shooter who I often go out with who bellyaches consistently about his rebel's inability to focus properly.

I'm not bashing canon, but rather reporting things that i've seen from other's experiences.

Seems like Canon just releases camera after camera after camera and never gets them right, whereas Nikon releases one here and there that is spot on!

I know a buncg of people who shoot Nikon stuff and we rarely talk about gear... just about the pics we've made.

And yes, some very knowledgeable people all throughout the net are saying how the d70 will blow away the rebel AND maybe even the 10d and d100!

1/500 flash sync makes it VERY viable for Photojournalists, 144 frame buffer makes it nice for sports, it has Flash Exposure compensation, it's got iso from 200-6400, 1/8000 top shutter speed, 6mp sensor....all for a $100 more than the Rebel.

Any somewhat serious shooter should realize that 1/500 flash sync is almost reason by itself to spend the extra $100 on the d70 over the rebel as 1/500 flash sync is a feature generally preserved for high end pro cameras!

Nikon really did a great job on this camera, and yes, it does blow away the 300d pound for pound. Does that make the 300d a crappy cam? No. Does it mean the 300d has some major shortcomings? Yes. lack of FEC was one that cropped up.

The front/back focusing issues is another. It's poor servo mode makes sports shooting VERY hard. (something all the soccer mom and dad's bought this for)

It's a fine camera. It's just got some serious shortcomings. Nikon's new offering kicks it's pants up and down, and basically obsoletes the D100 and 10D as well!

Would I trade my D100? Nope. Simply because I've got it paid off and would probably end up with a D2x or even a1ds mk II if it comes out with an affordable price.

But yea, I think the 300d is a nice point and shoot cam. Is it a serious amateur/semi pro's tool? No way.
 
Originally posted by revenuee
well i already have the Nikon 35 - 80mm 4 - 5.6 ... seems logical to keep it as an all purpose in that equation

Then by all means, perhaps, skip the Sigma 24-70, get a wide angle (the 12-24 is nice in this case) and get a 50mm 1.8 prime!

The Nikon 28mm F2.8 is CHEAP now ($190 after rebate) and the 50mm is 90 bucks!

that gives you:

12-24 = 18-36
28 = 42 at f.28
50 = 75 at f.28
105 = 155 f2.8
and your
50-500

That's a great (and LIGHT) lens selection! (save for the 50-500) and keep that nikon 35-80 as your nice light shooter for street shots.

;)
 
Originally posted by Moxiemike
Then by all means, perhaps, skip the Sigma 24-70, get a wide angle (the 12-24 is nice in this case) and get a 50mm 1.8 prime!

The Nikon 28mm F2.8 is CHEAP now ($190 after rebate) and the 50mm is 90 bucks!

that gives you:

12-24 = 18-36
28 = 42 at f.28
50 = 75 at f.28
105 = 155 f2.8
and your
50-500

That's a great (and LIGHT) lens selection! (save for the 50-500) and keep that nikon 35-80 as your nice light shooter for street shots.

;)


ya i think that seems the ideal solution

but i found the nikon 50mm 1.4 just now at a local store ... that 1.4 seems like it would be the way to go for those dark shots even better then the 1.8
 
Well, you can certainly back up your opinion which is good. You're definitely way into photography, much more than I am.

And like I said, you might even be right. But I'm still skeptical there is as much of a divide in technical specs and performance between Nikon and Canon as you claim. All I know is I'm taking amazing pictures with my Rebel and I can't find anything to complain about it. Hmmm, this is starting to remind me of the Mac vs. PC threads. But then that is an easy one....


Originally posted by Moxiemike
Actually, you're wrong. I posted a review of the 300d that was very favourable, thought since i've realized major issues with the lens.

That said, the canon's semi-por DSLRS all seem to suffer from focusing issues, and if you go out on a pro job, they often seem to prevent you from completing the job.

(stuff deleted)

But yea, I think the 300d is a nice point and shoot cam. Is it a serious amateur/semi pro's tool? No way.
 
Originally posted by revenuee
ya i think that seems the ideal solution

but i found the nikon 50mm 1.4 just now at a local store ... that 1.4 seems like it would be the way to go for those dark shots even better then the 1.8

I went through that dilemma myself and in the end couldn't justify $200 more for 1 stop.

At that point I just would rather pump up the ISO a little more. ;)

I've read some reports where people claim the 1.4 is reall bad wide open, and is less sharp than the 1.8 is at 1.8 so I think the 1.8 might be a better performer.

At a third of the cost. :)

That said, i can't see the 1.4 being a bad lens or a bad investment.
 
I'm torn

between either this, a 10D, or the new

Leica Digilux 2

I have a bunch of Canon lenses, which speaks to getting a 10D, but my lifestyle has become such that I use my SLR mostly at home, and on the rare targeted-photo-taking opportunity. It's just too much to carry around.

I'm thinking that the Leica strikes a nice balance between size, optics, and features.
 
Originally posted by Moxiemike
I went through that dilemma myself and in the end couldn't justify $200 more for 1 stop.

At that point I just would rather pump up the ISO a little more. ;)

I've read some reports where people claim the 1.4 is reall bad wide open, and is less sharp than the 1.8 is at 1.8 so I think the 1.8 might be a better performer.

At a third of the cost. :)

That said, i can't see the 1.4 being a bad lens or a bad investment.

thats a good point ... so you don't think i'll be disappointed with sharpness/contrast/color wise with the 1.8 version?
 
Originally posted by Moxiemike
...I know one Canon shooter who I often go out with who bellyaches consistently about his rebel's inability to focus properly.

I'm not bashing canon, but rather reporting things that i've seen from other's experiences.

Seems like Canon just releases camera after camera after camera and never gets them right, whereas Nikon releases one here and there that is spot on!

I know a buncg of people who shoot Nikon stuff and we rarely talk about gear... just about the pics we've made....

You seem to consistently say that you're not bashing Canon, only to turn around and bash Canon.

I've used several Nikon cameras, and I haven't been overly impressed. I've also known some people who spend time grousing about issues they've had with their Nikons before switching to a different brand. It was even based partially on these and reviews I read that made me choose Canon when I first started buying my gear.

While my experience has not extended to the dSLRs at this point, I take my experience with film SLRs quite seriously. And I have to believe that a companies capability with film SLRs have a bearing on their dSLR lines.

Simply saying that your experience is good and you've known people that have had bad experiences with Canon doesn't make it gospel. Hey, I know someone who had a terrible experience with Apple computers and customer service. Does that mean that Apples are bad computers?

I guess I'm just trying to say that I'd ask you to own your opinion as your opinion, and not try to expound on how it is absolute truth.
 
Originally posted by revenuee
thats a good point ... so you don't think i'll be disappointed with sharpness/contrast/color wise with the 1.8 version?

I don't. Although I haven't really tried the 1.4

Actually, Cameta Camera has some mint used 1.8's for $58. You can't beat that!

Cameta is GREAT to buy from used and has good cutsom service and returns. I think it's cameta.com

Here's a 50mm sample or two:

lr_km.jpg


lr_drip.jpg



Hope this all helps man!

by the way.. those are both ISO 800 pics!
 
Originally posted by Snowy_River
You seem to consistently say that you're not bashing Canon, only to turn around and bash Canon.

I've used several Nikon cameras, and I haven't been overly impressed. I've also known some people who spend time grousing about issues they've had with their Nikons before switching to a different brand. It was even based partially on these and reviews I read that made me choose Canon when I first started buying my gear.

While my experience has not extended to the dSLRs at this point, I take my experience with film SLRs quite seriously. And I have to believe that a companies capability with film SLRs have a bearing on their dSLR lines.

Simply saying that your experience is good and you've known people that have had bad experiences with Canon doesn't make it gospel. Hey, I know someone who had a terrible experience with Apple computers and customer service. Does that mean that Apples are bad computers?

I guess I'm just trying to say that I'd ask you to own your opinion as your opinion, and not try to expound on how it is absolute truth.

I never said it was absolute truth, save for the stats of the d70 beating the 300d, which IS absolute truth!

On paper, pound for pound the D100 and 10d are similar, the 300d lags far behind them and the d70 beats all three.

From what i've seen, Canon's products aren't as high quality as they seem on the consumer end (the 10d and 300d)
 
Originally posted by Moxiemike
I don't. Although I haven't really tried the 1.4

Actually, Cameta Camera has some mint used 1.8's for $58. You can't beat that!

Cameta is GREAT to buy from used and has good cutsom service and returns. I think it's cameta.com

Here's a 50mm sample or two:



Hope this all helps man!

oh wow ... those are nice

thank you very much moxiemike ... you have been a huge help
 
Originally posted by revenuee
oh wow ... those are nice

thank you very much moxiemike ... you have been a huge help

No problem. Just remember to post your first impressions of that 12-24 and the D70 so i know if i should buy one of each. :D
 
Originally posted by Moxiemike
No problem. Just remember to post your first impressions of that 12-24 and the D70 so i know if i should buy one of each. :D

well i'm going to down to Florida in about 2 weeks and i'm going to pick up the 12-24 and the 105 then .... and then hold on and wait for the D70 body when ever it should grace us with its arrival

so i'll let you know what i think of the 12 - 24 probably in the next 3 weeks
 
I don't really want to start a new thread for this so i'll just post it hear ... cause i was wondering if you could help me out Moxiemike

now i know the D70 has a different CCD then the D100 ... i was curious if you could help me out non the less

i've been looking at comparing the fine,normal, and basic settings of the D100 ... as well as they're corresponding L,M, or S settings

any where i could find test shots of each setting? -- preferably of the same thing
 
Originally posted by revenuee
I don't really want to start a new thread for this so i'll just post it hear ... cause i was wondering if you could help me out Moxiemike

now i know the D70 has a different CCD then the D100 ... i was curious if you could help me out non the less

i've been looking at comparing the fine,normal, and basic settings of the D100 ... as well as they're corresponding L,M, or S settings

any where i could find test shots of each setting? -- preferably of the same thing

DPreview.com should have them.


I'll tell you this: you'll want to toggle between 2 settings, as far as quality goes: RAW and JPG fine.

They both give you the 3008x2000 file.

The raw is generally more detailed and more flexible(and thusly larger, file wise) in that you can adjust parameters after you take the pic (white balance, exposure comp, etc) while jpgs are smaller in file size, have very little compression artifacts (nothing major at all on a 6mp file) and have a little less noise in the low ISOs than do RAW files.

Basically the other modes are just downsized version of the jpg (which you can do in PS, so no real need to use them) or a TIFF setting, which is almost twice the size of RAW files (14.5mb vs 9.5) with no real benefits over the RAW.

NOw on the d70, you can shoot raw+jpg, so the camera stores both (a smaller jpg if i understand correctly, for previewing) and the RAW on the d70 is compressed (lossless compression) which means the file size should be around 4.5mb which means 50 raw files per 256 card.

I'd just shoot raw if I were you. ;)

BUt yea. check dpreview for image quality things. The d70 will look a little different i'm sure.
 
Originally posted by Moxiemike
DPreview.com should have them.


I'll tell you this: you'll want to toggle between 2 settings, as far as quality goes: RAW and JPG fine.

They both give you the 3008x2000 file.

The raw is generally more detailed and more flexible(and thusly larger, file wise) in that you can adjust parameters after you take the pic (white balance, exposure comp, etc) while jpgs are smaller in file size, have very little compression artifacts (nothing major at all on a 6mp file) and have a little less noise in the low ISOs than do RAW files.

Basically the other modes are just downsized version of the jpg (which you can do in PS, so no real need to use them) or a TIFF setting, which is almost twice the size of RAW files (14.5mb vs 9.5) with no real benefits over the RAW.

NOw on the d70, you can shoot raw+jpg, so the camera stores both (a smaller jpg if i understand correctly, for previewing) and the RAW on the d70 is compressed (lossless compression) which means the file size should be around 4.5mb which means 50 raw files per 256 card.

I'd just shoot raw if I were you. ;)

BUt yea. check dpreview for image quality things. The d70 will look a little different i'm sure.

the reason i ask is i might have a long (4 month) trip planned .... and although i have a 20 gig iPod that i plan to outfit with a Belkin card reader so that it can act as a "digital Wallet" rather then spending ecessive amounts of money on storage media ... i know that i can't always count on getting to a computer never mind a computer with CD burner to dumb my files onto ... so raw is a little out of the question you mention 50 on a 256? at nikon stats were 25 on a 256 ... vs 75 in Jpeg Fine.

now at 75 per card that works out be about 5400 pictures on the 18 gigs that the iPod is acctually formatted too ... and i calculated that in a 4 month period thats about 45 pictures a day ... but i could definatly seem myself shooting a lot more now that i can really experiment and probably end up getting those difficult light shots (particularly when i end up picking up those f1.8 lenses)

i mean in film i can just go out an buy more film ... going out an buying more memory ... those possible ... is expensive ...

hmm then again i was going to take my film body as a backup so i guess should i need to shoot in film if i run out of space that won't be an issue ..
 
Originally posted by revenuee
the reason i ask is i might have a long (4 month) trip planned .... and although i have a 20 gig iPod that i plan to outfit with a Belkin card reader so that it can act as a "digital Wallet" rather then spending ecessive amounts of money on storage media ... i know that i can't always count on getting to a computer never mind a computer with CD burner to dumb my files onto ... so raw is a little out of the question you mention 50 on a 256? at nikon stats were 25 on a 256 ... vs 75 in Jpeg Fine.

now at 75 per card that works out be about 5400 pictures on the 18 gigs that the iPod is acctually formatted too ... and i calculated that in a 4 month period thats about 45 pictures a day ... but i could definatly seem myself shooting a lot more now that i can really experiment and probably end up getting those difficult light shots (particularly when i end up picking up those f1.8 lenses)

i mean in film i can just go out an buy more film ... going out an buying more memory ... those possible ... is expensive ...

hmm then again i was going to take my film body as a backup so i guess should i need to shoot in film if i run out of space that won't be an issue ..

25 RAW uncompressed on a 256. If you used compressed RAW (Which i think is the only choice on the D70) you end up with about 50 or so.

It's lossless, and I think that if you don't mind some post-processing, you'll end up with better files than the jpgs. And you only "lose" 25 per card.

I'd definitely invest in 4 256 cards... a gig of memory. I wouldn't buy a 1gb card-- what happens if it fails?

But yea. buy as many 256 cards as possible.

Have you thought about buying, say, a used pismo cheap and a cd-burner?? My keyboardist got a pismo on ebay for $300 recently.. might not be a bad investment, that and a firwire CD burner-- you can prolly grab an 8x or 16x Que! drive cheap.
 
Originally posted by Moxiemike
25 RAW uncompressed on a 256. If you used compressed RAW (Which i think is the only choice on the D70) you end up with about 50 or so.

It's lossless, and I think that if you don't mind some post-processing, you'll end up with better files than the jpgs. And you only "lose" 25 per card.

I'd definitely invest in 4 256 cards... a gig of memory. I wouldn't buy a 1gb card-- what happens if it fails?

But yea. buy as many 256 cards as possible.

Have you thought about buying, say, a used pismo cheap and a cd-burner?? My keyboardist got a pismo on ebay for $300 recently.. might not be a bad investment, that and a firwire CD burner-- you can prolly grab an 8x or 16x Que! drive cheap.

well it's only 25 pics but that works out to be about 3600 vs 5400 on the 18 gigs

i was thinking of getting 2 256 cards so that i can quickly swap them in and then unload to the iPod later ....

as far as picking up a Prismo i guess thats an option ... but as i recall it's a bit bulky and i want to minimize wieght as i plan on bouncing around a lot

i was planning on getting a laptop eventually but i was hoping this it would be "a lot better" then my current desktop" ... so i'm thinking of just getting my camera gear ... playing around with the settings when i get it home ... print off some samples see what works for me ... work with what i have ... and then keep saving and maybe by that time there will be g5 12" inch powerbook
 
I've realized drinking is better then dating because at least when you feel bad after a night of drinking, you know why.

I loved that phrase of yours!!!


I didn't test either Canon 300D or that Nikon D70 myself, and usually dont believe any review site etc, except forums...

but as an old Canon EOS300 and now an EOS5 user, and now I am using Powershot S50 as a digicam, I'll always prefer a Canon machine.. not just because I have sets of lenses or so, just because it is Canon.. some say this is brand loyalty, I call it trust. this is the bottom line for me.
 
Ugh... this thread has made me wish these two things:

1.) I had the need for a camera this nice to rationalize buying one.
2.) I had the artistic ability to take pictures that are of this camera's calibre.

:)
 
Originally posted by Moxiemike
I'd definitely invest in 4 256 cards... a gig of memory. I wouldn't buy a 1gb card-- what happens if it fails?

But yea. buy as many 256 cards as possible.
Couldn't agree more. Over the years I've had about 4 errors in the field, one with a 1 GB Microdrive and the other 3 with Compact Flash cards.

You should always have enough backups to "mothball" the card with the error until you get back to a computer and use some recovery software to hopefully re-extract the files.

In most cases the errors result from a loss of power to the card during a write, which messes up the cards formatting but not the other photos that are on the card. If you reformat in the field (because you have no back-up cards), you lose these often recovereable images. Lexar used to bundle Image Rescue 1.1 with their Pro cards, which also carry a lifetime warranty, though I don't know about the new version 2. I've used Sandisk Ultra in the past, but my next card will be a Lexar just for the software!

The prices are moving down on Compact Flash, so you might mix 256's with as many 512's as you can afford (for you next generation camera!!), as long as you have enough cards for insurance.

B & H has the Lexar 256 Pro card for $55 with rebate, and the 512 for $140.
 
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