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Lidar is a massive downgrade on 15 Pro and 16 Pro models as it screws with the autofocus, especially at night when shooting through a window. I‘m covering it with tape on my 15 Pro.
RAM was never an issue with the 11 until iOS introduced memory leaks that are still being fixed to this day, but I see it’s beneficial to just have more available RAM.
Didn’t remember they introduced MagSafe that year.
Design definitely was better with the 11 Pro, agreed.
Anyway, glad to hear for you the 12 Pro was an upgrade from your 11 Pro, even though it seems for most people it wasn’t/wouldn‘t have been, compared to the 13 Pro.
Fascinating, I did not think lidar was the reason for poor window/ Thru net/mesh shots on my 14 pro. My lidar 10/10 value comes from the measure app.
My 4GB ram devices were bad from the start ( 11 pro & 2018 iPad Pro ) I wished for more ram and was a delight with 6GB ( 12 & 14 pro ) I’m enjoying the 12GB now.
 
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"Cheap"

This fantasy that titanium or steel makes the iPhone look more premium is hilarious, makes zero difference to the look or feel of a fat metal phone.

No one cared until Apple told them Stainless steel looked so fancy and Americans need that phone class system to keep going right, can't have people thinking you're a broke boi 😂

grow up.
 
"Cheap"

This fantasy that titanium or steel makes the iPhone look more premium is hilarious, makes zero difference to the look or feel of a fat metal phone.

No one cared until Apple told them Stainless steel looked so fancy and Americans need that phone class system to keep going right, can't have people thinking you're a broke boi 😂

grow up.
Why does it have anything to do with being an American? Is that like saying that non Americans are too ignorant to notice a difference in metal material? I can 100% tell the difference between metals I’m holding and I do know some are more appealing and more comfortable than the other too. This is the reason high end jewelry is made out of more expensive metals and also the reason countries fight over rare earth metals. Coins are a great example of the difference in metals. They’re likely the most touched metals in the world and most are made from the same material. Corrosion resistance, wear resistance and longevity is likely the reason.
 
I cant imagine buying a Ferrari in 2020 made of carbon fiber for $150,000 Then in 2025 the same car is sold to me but made out of steel for the same price. It's just not going to happen. I don't see why anyone arguing that aluminum is better than titanium. Just admit that apple could make a iPhone pro out of panini bread and you'd buy it cause its says pro. We need to stop giving companies and marketing gimmicks easy passes. Im sorry but I would not settle for an over $1300 smartphone that scratches.
 
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I cant imagine buying a Ferrari in 2020 made of carbon fiber for $150,000 Then in 2025 the same car is sold to me but made out of steel for the same price. It's just not going to happen. I don't see why anyone arguing that aluminum is better than titanium. Just admit that apple could make a iPhone pro out of panini bread and you'd buy it cause its says pro. We need to stop giving companies and marketing gimmicks easy passes. Im sorry but I would not settle for an over $1300 smartphone that scratches.
Aluminium is better at heat dissipation than titanium. Apple have explained that and, alongside the Vapor Chamber, temperatures have lowered significantly when comparing the 17 Pro to the 16 Pro.

This time, the 17 Pro is built as a performance-focused device rather than a luxury one. It’s more like a stripped-down supercar built for speed, versus a Rolls Royce or Bentley designed for comfort.
 
Big difference. Wood isn’t abrasive.

Edit: and it’s really soft compared to most types of tiles, bricks and concrete.

The point is aluminum may be great for thermal conductivity, but it’s a terrible external material to create a phone from.

My wife just told me she loves my iPhone Air and wants to switch from her 16 Pro Max to it.
Aluminum is a great material to make a phone out of. For once Apple prioritized function over form. I can’t believe all the prima donnas complaining the iPhone doesn’t “look or feel premium.” We get to reap the benefits of speed, power, battery life, camera performance, etc because they switched to a new form factor which required aluminum to make it happen.
 
Mixed impressions.

17 Pro Max (silver) here.

I love the performance, and it's demonstrable in benchmarks. Love the projected battery life.

But it's hardly life changing, nor does it make communicative life better than it was with my 15 Pro Max, which had a more quality feel in my hands, speaking subjectively.

Don't know what to do with all this power, and must suppose we won't realise until Apple Intelligence becomes more important to us.

The camera changes are impressive, but I can't help wondering how many of us will make good use of them.
 
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I have said this in another thread but Ill say it again. There is an iPhone for everyone this year. The base iPhone is for most people just looking to get a new phone after 3-5 years. I would get this for my Dad, or anyone who just wants a great phone and doesn't care about the design or having a telephoto camera.

The iPhone Air is for people who want the latest and greatest design and are willing to accept some trade offs for a beautiful new device.

The iPhone Pro and Pro Max are for the people who want the best camera, the best battery, and the best performance. I personally chose the silver Pro Max because I have 3 kids and the camera is very important to me. I use the telephoto and ultra wide all the time. Battery life is extremely important also. I put my phone right in a case so the material that is used isn't very important.
 
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Mixed impressions.

17 Pro Max (silver) here.

I love the performance, and it's demonstrable in benchmarks. Love the projected battery life.

But it's hardly life changing, nor does it make communicative life better than it was with my 15 Pro Max, which had a more quality feel in my hands, speaking subjectively.

Don't know what to do with all this power, and must suppose we won't realise until Apple Intelligence becomes more important to us.

The camera changes are impressive, but I can't help wondering how many of us will make good use of them.
I care most about speed and cameras. But the 15 pro max cameras aren’t bad enough for me to compromise on that cheap aluminum look and feel. So i think I might be returning my air and sticking with the 15 for now
 
I have said this in another thread but Ill say it again. There is an iPhone for everyone this year. The base iPhone is for most people just looking to get a new phone after 3-5 years. I would get this for my Dad, or anyone who just wants a great phone and doesn't care about the design or having a telephoto camera.

The iPhone Air is for people who want the latest and greatest design and are willing to accept some trade offs for a beautiful new device.

The iPhone Pro and Pro Max are for the people who want the best camera, the best battery, and the best performance. I personally chose the silver Pro Max because I have 3 kids and the camera is very important to me. I use the telephoto and ultra wide all the time. Battery life is extremely important also. I put my phone right in a case so the material that is used isn't very important.
Agree and well summarized - there's a phone model for just about everyone - well done Apple.

I just don't understand why humans are so resistant to changes - like the new Air.

Nor do I not understand why people would bash on other models making their model / color / capacity a better choice.

Is the Air too new of a technology or change in form factor so threatening to their rigid mentality ?

For someone like me, the Air is perfect - no tradeoffs, no compromises, no loss of features because I don't use the iPhone like everyone else.

5 days and loving the Air - no complaints at all after 3 decades of cell phone use from the old Motorola brick cellular until now...
atg4q6wOevp_X132xwcJKs6ucTxFA-sikpdyi6NHY0c.jpg
 
Agree and well summarized - there's a phone model for just about everyone - well done Apple.

I just don't understand why humans are so resistant to changes - like the new Air.

Nor do I not understand why people would bash on other models making their model / color / capacity a better choice.

Is the Air too new of a technology or change in form factor so threatening to their rigid mentality ?

For someone like me, the Air is perfect - no tradeoffs, no compromises, no loss of features because I don't use the iPhone like everyone else.

5 days and loving the Air - no complaints at all after 3 decades of cell phone use from the old Motorola brick cellular until now...
atg4q6wOevp_X132xwcJKs6ucTxFA-sikpdyi6NHY0c.jpg
Whoa the T610!!! haha I remember having that phone and it was such a modern fun phone at the time. Also the Nokia 3390.... talking about battery life! haha
 
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Agree and well summarized - there's a phone model for just about everyone - well done Apple.

I just don't understand why humans are so resistant to changes - like the new Air.

Nor do I not understand why people would bash on other models making their model / color / capacity a better choice.

Is the Air too new of a technology or change in form factor so threatening to their rigid mentality ?

For someone like me, the Air is perfect - no tradeoffs, no compromises, no loss of features because I don't use the iPhone like everyone else.

5 days and loving the Air - no complaints at all after 3 decades of cell phone use from the old Motorola brick cellular until now...
atg4q6wOevp_X132xwcJKs6ucTxFA-sikpdyi6NHY0c.jpg
Motorola StarTac and that Ericsson t28!
 
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Honestly I haven't even seen it in person yet but it's just ugly as. I'm actually in shock that the new design got through concept, design and clearing. It's such a horrible eyesore of a device I'm genuinely wondering if it is a ploy to push consumers toward the comparatively more premium looking, innovative (albeit downgraded) Air and pivot their whole marketing tactic away from the increasingly stale bigger screen, bigger camera shtick that they are increasingly losing out on to Android competitors.
 
Aluminium is better at heat dissipation than titanium. Apple have explained that and, alongside the Vapor Chamber, temperatures have lowered significantly when comparing the 17 Pro to the 16 Pro.

This time, the 17 Pro is built as a performance-focused device rather than a luxury one. It’s more like a stripped-down supercar built for speed, versus a Rolls Royce or Bentley designed for comfort.
The titanium was just the rails and the rest was aluminum. The vapor chamber is to make it more efficient inside an aluminum body. It needed an entire island to cram all internals inside an already chungy phone. It got wider, taller, thicker, heavier, and added a giant island. Its a downgrade in materials
 
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The titanium was just the rails and the rest was aluminum. The vapor chamber is to make it more efficient inside an aluminum body.
Due to the unibody construction of the new design, titanium couldn't be incorporated, as the entire chassis (other than the Ceramic Shield) is formed from aluminium.
 
What I can't believe is that people like OP are pretending that 99% of iPhone 17 Pro and Pro Max buyers won't be putting in a case regardless of what its made of, like every other iPhone they've ever owned.
 
macbook pro = aluminum
ipad pro = aluminum

i don’t know why iphones can’t be aluminum
Apple pushed into "premium" materials like stainless steel (and eventually titanium) as a way of justifying the higher price tag they were pushing into as well. Turns out those materials were even less practical in the long run than what they were using before.

So people are conditioned to think that aluminum is somehow worse. And the ones without any intellectual maturity actually believe it.

Honestly I believe they should all still be made of hardened plastic, so they can be used without a case. Build the case into the phone.
 
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The titanium was just the rails and the rest was aluminum. The vapor chamber is to make it more efficient inside an aluminum body. It needed an entire island to cram all internals inside an already chungy phone. It got wider, taller, thicker, heavier, and added a giant island. Its a downgrade in materials
That's not correct. The aluminum unibody construction is best for thermal performance, as it has always been in every Apple product where the concept is used. The vapor chamber adds another layer on top of that for maximizing sustained performance.
 
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What I can't believe is that people like OP are pretending that 99% of iPhone 17 Pro and Pro Max buyers won't be putting in a case regardless of what its made of, like every other iPhone they've ever owned.
I believe it’s more like 70%, but the hilarious part is cases are a giant insulator so the furthest the heat dissipates is throughout the phone, which the vapor chamber facilitates but the aluminum outer casing not as much. An aluminum mid plane with a titanium outer band with the vapor chamber may very well have performed nearly identically to the aluminum unibody when both encased in rubber and plastic.
 
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I’ve had several people in the family blindly, hold the pro and the promax and they can barely tell the weight difference between the two
That's actually nice to hear. I haven't held them myself, but the difference between my previous 16 Pro Max and my wife's 15 Pro is dramatic.
 
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