Can't do Wifi calling. AT&T. Apple Watch 3 LTE

[dave006]

For the first time I am able to now get the AT&T Wi-Fi to show on the Watch....As usual, I made what should be a Wi-Fi Call from the Watch while my iPhone is in Airplane mode, now I wait to check the call detail in about 3 hours.

Well yet another fail, what appears to be a Wi-Fi call as I make it, is in reality yet another LTE call by the Watch. Visuals: Wi-Fi showing as active in the Watch's Control Center, Explorer Face shows no LTE Green dots. And for the record the host iPhone is in Airplane mode with Wi-Fi and Bluetooth confirmed to be Off.

Dave

 

[sirozha]

Your post is very detailed and provided a lot of information. I think mode 4 is where we are experiencing some weird behavior.

On my watch, if connected to WiFi, while phone is in airplane mode, and I turn off the cellular toggle on the watch, it will refuse to place a call over WiFi. Do you experiencing the same? If so, what do you attribute this behavior to?

Yes, I’m experiencing the same behavior, and I attribute it to the fact that the “antenna” toggle in Control Center on the Series 3 Apple Watch turns off both cellular calling and Wi-Fi Calling capabilities in WatchOS 4.01. In watchOS 4.1, there will be a separate toggle in Control Center to turn off Wi-Fi, and the behavior of the “antenna” toggle may change so that it will not affect Wi-Fi calling modes.

 

[xraydoc]

Just in case it helps anyone...

I’m on T-Mobile. Under my DIGITS account page, the watch line shows no outgoing or incoming phone calls (I’m certain I’ve made a few wifi brief and cellular calls). The calls, however, are listed under the phone’s log as either wifi or cellular. Curiously, the T-Mobile watch # log, while blank, does list 7 minutes of call time total... even though no numbers are listed.

So as far as I can tell, the calls are going via cell and wifi appropriately, but are listed under the master phone number rather than individually under the watch’s separate number.

 

[sirozha]

Just in case it helps anyone...

I’m on T-Mobile. Under my DIGITS account page, the watch line shows no outgoing or incoming phone calls (I’m certain I’ve made a few wifi brief and cellular calls). The calls, however, are listed under the phone’s log as either wifi or cellular. Curiously, the T-Mobile watch # log, while blank, does list 7 minutes of call time total... even though no numbers are listed.

So as far as I can tell, the calls are going via cell and wifi appropriately, but are listed under the master phone number rather than individually under the watch’s separate number.

I see the same behavior, and I'm also on T-Mobile.

 

[dave006]

...... When the Apple Watch Series 3 with LTE activated makes a Wi-Fi call, the call arrives in the Service Provider's network with the calling device being identified by a fake number that carriers assign to the LTE Apple Watch. This fake number is then mapped by the service provider's system to the main number.

Any outbound or incoming calls from/to the Watch are actually captured in the Carrier's network as origination from/to this unique line of service with a real phone number there is no "Fake" number.

The call details are recorded just like a call from any other Cellular device that supports Voice & Data. The type of call is also classified as to the method used to originate the call. Most of us are now familiar with a certain 3 Letter Agency that makes use of this call log data for National Security reasons here in the USA.

All Cellular providers are required to log the following information for each call: Date/Time, Contact Number, Location, Call Type, Minutes, Charge($). This information may not be available without a fee but it is recorded.

Dave

 

[ZipZap]

I'm able to make calls over WiFi on my LTE watch when my phone is in airplane mode. But I'm unable to receive calls on the watch over WiFi in the same situation. All calls go to voicemail. Any ideas about this?

Are you sure those calls are really WIFI?

 

[dave006]

Are you sure those calls are really WIFI?

No they are not on Wi-Fi. If @Smoothie can't receive inbound calls on their Watch over Wi-Fi, then their outbound calls are not being made over Wi-Fi they are actually being made via LTE or by accident via the iPhone, if it is not in full Airplane mode.

Calls going to the iPhone's Voicemail clearly indicates that the Watch is not actually registering as connected to the Carrier's network.

Dave
[doublepost=1508173271][/doublepost]

Two things:

1) Airplane mode is not enough has there have been reports that the phone does not fully turn of WIFI. Turn off your phone.

2) Have you considered the deactivating and re-activating ATT may cause you to lose the credits later?

Removing the Cellular plan from the Watch using the Watch App on the iPhone does not affect the actual line of service with the Carrier. It only removes the plan from the Watch. Even NumberSync is left in place on the Carrier's side.

To impact the free activation and 3 free months or credits for the same, you will have to contact your Cellular Carrier and have them remove the Watch's line from your Billing Account. Even in this case, you have 14 days to reestablish the line without any negative impact.

Dave

 

[ZipZap]

This is the same issue we are all experiencing. Do me a favor, put your iPhone in airplane mode, alternatively turn off the WiFi and Bluetooth radios. Wait for your watch to switch to WiFi and make sure the cellular toggle is in the ON position.

Now, on the watch, go to settings -> General -> About. Scroll down to where it says “Network” what does it say?

Second, on the watch, now turn the cellular toggle to OFF. Go watch into the watch settings->General -> about. Now what does it say under network?

Airplane mode with Cellular on:
Network: AT&T Wifi

Airplane Mode with Cellular off:
Network: None

Shut off the phone. Same results.

What is AT&T Wifi, as it is not a known Wifi network on my phone.

 

[deadworlds]

Airplane mode with Cellular on:
Network: AT&T Wifi

Airplane Mode with Cellular off:
Network: None

Shut off the phone. Same results.

What is AT&T Wifi, as it is not a known Wifi network on my phone.

Att WiFi means it’s supposed to be using att WiFi calling.

For example on my iPhone, when connected to WiFi and WiFi calling is enabled, it shows T-Mobile Wifi at the top where the signal bars are.

 

[jacek123]

Same issues in watchOS 4.1 beta 2 on T-Mobile. Beta 3 is out now. Will be testing tonight...

 

[ZipZap]

Att WiFi means it’s supposed to be using att WiFi calling.

For example on my iPhone, when connected to WiFi and WiFi calling is enabled, it shows T-Mobile Wifi at the top where the signal bars are.

While I understand the label, I want to know which actual network AW is communicating with. There is no AT&T Wifi Network. Perhaps is not really making a connection to a WIFI network and thusly falls back to LTE. That would make sense since none of my AW WIFI Calls are logged by A&T as actual WIFI calls.

 

[deadworlds]

Att WiFi means it’s supposed to be using att WiFi calling.

While I understand the label, I want to know which actual network AW is communicating with. There is no AT&T Wifi Network. Perhaps is not really making a connection to a WIFI network and thusly falls back to LTE. That would make sense since none of my AW WIFI Calls are logged by A&T as actual WIFI calls.

Oh yea the watch doesnt have the ability to display which Wifi network its connected to yet! The new watchOS version thats currently in beta is going to add that feature. For now you'll only be able to see that the watch is connected to wifi using the watch control center, the one that comes up when you Swipe up from the watch face.
[doublepost=1508188532][/doublepost]So I just got off the phone with the Senior Advisor, she said she hasn't heard back from the engineers yet, most likely because they have cases that stack up over the weekend. The advisor wanted to do some more testing just so she could send a more detailed report to engineering. Honestly, this has been a hassle and im starting to think that ill just let it be.

Perhaps the way that the carriers are handling the number sync, DIGITS stuff in the background is whats causing confusion. As @dave006 and I have been able to see, when the watch is on wifi and the phone is off (Airplane Mode), the watch will display ATT Wifi or T-Mobile Wifi inside the watch settings-> About section.

Maybe when a call is placed in this fashion the carrier receives the call from the watch (remember the watch has its own number) and then masks the number as originating from the iPhone number. Maybe this process losses the Wifi Calling marker, so the call is logged as a cellular call? I don't know, but i'm getting over this issue.

 

[dave006]

.....Maybe when a call is placed in this fashion the carrier receives the call from the watch (remember the watch has its own number) and then masks the number as originating from the iPhone number. Maybe this process losses the Wifi Calling marker, so the call is logged as a cellular call? I don't know, but i'm getting over this issue.

There is no masking of the outbound calls, the are actually being made by the Watch using it's own phone number and is logged by the Carrier as a Cellular Call. The NumberSync function happens within the Carrier's backend to make the external call appear to come from the iPhone's phone number. This is very similar to CID Spoofing but since the Carrier is doing it, it is legal.

If the inbound calls to the iPhone's number while it is in Airplane mode but if the Watch rings, it is because the Watch is on the Carrier's network via Cellular. All the inbound calls are logged as Cellular calls. Outbound calls from the Watch, while the iPhone is in Airplane mode has the same behavior. It may show AT&T Wi-Fi in the Network field but it is still making a Cellular LTE call.

Dave
[doublepost=1508190592][/doublepost]I am currently talking to my 3rd rep and this ones indicates it must be a hardware problem and keeps trying to dump me to AppleCare+ to Express me a replacement Watch.

Dave

 

[deadworlds]

There is no masking of the outbound calls, the are actually being made by the Watch using it's own phone number and is logged by the Carrier as a Cellular Call. The NumberSync function happens within the Carrier's backend to make the external call appear to come from the iPhone's phone number. This is very similar to CID Spoofing but since the Carrier is doing it, it is legal.

If the inbound calls to the iPhone's number while it is in Airplane mode but if the Watch rings, it is because the Watch is on the Carrier's network via Cellular. All the inbound calls are logged as Cellular calls. Outbound calls from the Watch, while the iPhone is in Airplane mode has the same behavior. It may show AT&T Wi-Fi in the Network field but it is still making a Cellular LTE call.

Dave
[doublepost=1508190592][/doublepost]I am currently talking to my 3rd rep and this ones indicates it must be a hardware problem and keeps trying to dump me to AppleCare+ to Express me a replacement Watch.

Dave

Have you tried to reach support through the online chat? I have had better luck reaching a senior advisor who better understands the situation through there. Eventually you'll be offered for a callback when the engineers get to your case. Then hopefully you'll get a senior advisor who's competent.

My senior advisor is form TX and het name is Katie,I met here during my callback, and she actually took ownership of the case. There is apparently no way to forward a call to a specific senior advisor, so youlll have to get lucky.

Also, how do you know what specific methods the carriers are using to make number sync and DIGITS work? Im just curious because I would imagine that very few people would know the inner mechanics of how they make that stuff work.

 

[sirozha]

Oh yea the watch doesnt have the ability to display which Wifi network its connected to yet! The new watchOS version thats currently in beta is going to add that feature. For now you'll only be able to see that the watch is connected to wifi using the watch control center, the one that comes up when you Swipe up from the watch face.
[doublepost=1508188532][/doublepost]So I just got off the phone with the Senior Advisor, she said she hasn't heard back from the engineers yet, most likely because they have cases that stack up over the weekend. The advisor wanted to do some more testing just so she could send a more detailed report to engineering. Honestly, this has been a hassle and im starting to think that ill just let it be.

Perhaps the way that the carriers are handling the number sync, DIGITS stuff in the background is whats causing confusion. As @dave006 and I have been able to see, when the watch is on wifi and the phone is off (Airplane Mode), the watch will display ATT Wifi or T-Mobile Wifi inside the watch settings-> About section.

Maybe when a call is placed in this fashion the carrier receives the call from the watch (remember the watch has its own number) and then masks the number as originating from the iPhone number. Maybe this process losses the Wifi Calling marker, so the call is logged as a cellular call? I don't know, but i'm getting over this issue.

You have arrived at the right conclusion. The watch is making a Wi-Fi call, but it’s logged in the carrier’s CDR with incorrect information. At the end of the day, if the calls succeed, it’s all that really matters.

Some folks here report that calls from their LTE Apple Watches fail when the iPhone is turned off or in Airplane mode. In my case, such calls succeed 100%, and that happens not only on my home Wi-Fi, but also on the Lifetime Fitness Wi-Fi.

Before I got the LTE Series 3 Apple Watch, I owned a Series 2 Watch, which I bought specifically to be able to make and receive calls while I worked out at Lifetime Fitness. Back a year ago, there were issues with Wi-Fi calls on the Series 2 Apple Watch when I left my iPhone in the locker. I experimented a lot, and I tried to leave my phone on in the locker and also to turn my phone off. Eventually, either Apple fixed the bugs, or I figured out the Wi-Fi calling feature on the Apple Watch, or perhaps it was a combination of the two, but the Series 2 Apple Watch capability to make and receive Wi-Fi calls on any known to it Wi-Fi network became quite reliable. I recall my wife accidentally leaving her phone at home, and me being able to call her on her Series 2 Apple Watch while she was working out in Lifetime Fitness or shopping in Publix.

With the LTE Series 3 Apple Watch, Wi- Fi calling for me and for my wife is just as reliable as it is with the Series 2 Apple Watch sans any early-adopter issues that we experienced with the Series 2 Apple Watch a year ago. LTE Calling is also reliable. I have no complaints at this point other than minor irritations with the toggles that I’m sure Apple will fix in the upcoming watchOS and iOS updates.

 

[hexagenia]

Sirozha-

Many thanks for sharing your testing and impressively thorough explanation. I learned a lot.

I know WiFi calling is working on my ATT S3 because I have no LTE coverage at my home. I mean, not a shred. I can turn off my iphone and both make and receive calls with my watch. Network is ATT WiFi.

Your explanation made me even more impressed with the complexity of power handling and calling with this device. The toggles need work, agreed, but the service is there.

Thanks.

 

[sirozha]

Sirozha-

Many thanks for sharing your testing and impressively thorough explanation. I learned a lot.

I know WiFi calling is working on my ATT S3 because I have no LTE coverage at my home. I mean, not a shred. I can turn off my iphone and both make and receive calls with my watch. Network is ATT WiFi.

Your explanation made me even more impressed with the complexity of power handling and calling with this device. The toggles need work, agreed, but the service is there.

Thanks.

You are quite welcome. I decided to lay it all out last night and spent two hours on that post in hope someone would benefit from it. I also needed to organize all of this information in my own head and record it for my own future reference, so I figured this forum would be a good place for it.

 

[deadworlds]

Sirozha-

Many thanks for sharing your testing and impressively thorough explanation. I learned a lot.

I know WiFi calling is working on my ATT S3 because I have no LTE coverage at my home. I mean, not a shred. I can turn off my iphone and both make and receive calls with my watch. Network is ATT WiFi.

Your explanation made me even more impressed with the complexity of power handling and calling with this device. The toggles need work, agreed, but the service is there.

Thanks.

Thank you for sharing your experience. The fact that you have no LTE coverage at home convinces me, that the carrier are logging that calls incorrectly as regular cellular calls, rather than WiFi Calls.

 

[JennyG1000]

Thank you for sharing your experience. The fact that you have no LTE coverage at home convinces me, that the carrier are logging that calls incorrectly as regular cellular calls, rather than WiFi Calls.

My experience can also support this:
IP on airplane mode, BT & WiFi off in settings, strong wifi signal on the watch, made a call to my mom, 4 min. crystal clear. My office has very weak signal and very unlikely to have a cellular call that clear lasting 4 min. Unless the watch has a better antenna than IP7+. Hung up, still strong wifi signal immediately after the call. Checked ATT call logs, logged as Daytime call. Tried again, IP on airplane mode, wifi and BT off in settings, to call the watch now from the office phone, strong wifi signal, now weird thing happens. The call goes to VM, so I am trying to redial, while redialing the watch rings even before I am able to punch all numbers. So I check the watch, still strong wifi signal. Calling the watch again and it rings now the first time. All calls logged as daytime call.
I have to believe these were all wifi, as it usually takes awhile for the watch to switch between connections.

 

[dave006]

Also, how do you know what specific methods the carriers are using to make number sync and DIGITS work? Im just curious because I would imagine that very few people would know the inner mechanics of how they make that stuff work.

I spent 30 years in the Telco business from the days of the old DMS 10. A DMS-10 was a frame that held the individual line cards that provided dial-tone to each and every landline, we designed those line cards.

NumberSync is simply associating a phone number with multiple devices and passing communications to a user's active device that is enabled by the Carrier network's IMS (IP Multimedia Subsystem) routers.

There is no real magic about how NumberSync and Digits or even NumberShare actually work. That's why there are no Fake phone numbers for the LTE Watches, they must fit within the standard Telco ecosystem and include a SIM or in case of Wearable Device a eSIM (embedded SIM).

Dave

 

[sirozha]

I spent 30 years in the Telco business from the days of the old DMS 10. A DMS-10 was a frame that held the individual line cards that provided dial-tone to each and every landline, we designed those line cards.

NumberSync is simply associating a phone number with multiple devices and passing communications to a user's active device that is enabled by the Carrier network's IMS (IP Multimedia Subsystem) routers.

There is no real magic about how NumberSync and Digits or even NumberShare actually work. That's why there are no Fake phone numbers for the LTE Watches, they must fit within the standard Telco ecosystem and include a SIM or in case of Wearable Device a eSIM (embedded SIM).

Dave

When I mentioned a “fake phone number” I meant exactly what you described. The reason I called it fake is the fact that if you dial this number, it doesn’t ring on the Watch or anywhere else. You get a recording saying that this number is not reachable or something to that effect. For all intents and purposes, the only reason this number exists is to have something to pair with the iPhone number.

Incidentally, it’s not necessary to assign a phone number to a device to be able to make the device receive or make phone calls with the main number assigned to the iPhone. Apple’s Calls on Other Devices feature works without assigning a phone number to devices that make/receive calls via Wi-Fi. The difference here is that for pure cellular calls, this apparently doesn’t work, so once LTE is activated in the Apple Watch, the proprietary Apple’s Wi-Fi Calling on Other Devices method is not used. Instead, the carrier’s Wi-Fi method is utilized, which apparently requires a phone number assigned to the watch. Again, this phone number cannot be dialed directly. It’s sole purpose is to be paired with the phone number assigned to the iPhone.

 

[dave006]

When I mentioned a “fake phone number” I meant exactly what you described. The reason I called it fake is the fact that if you dial this number, it doesn’t ring on the Watch or anywhere else. You get a recording saying that this number is not reachable or something to that effect. For all intents and purposes, the only reason this number exists is to have something to pair with the iPhone number. .

NumberSync (NumberShare, Digits,...) causes the behavior you described above. Again the Watch's phone number exists for a couple of very good reasons not just for the magic of NumberSync. When the Watch registers to the Carrier's network; LTE or Wi-Fi, as a Voice & Data device, it has to have a phone number which it tied to the ICCID from the eSIM.

First so the Carrier can log the information required for the legal reason I provided in my post previously. It is also actually used to make the Watch ring anytime the iPhone is not available (LTE / Wi-Fi(when it finally works)). The originator of the call may not call this number directly but the Carrier's systems defiantly make the Watch ring using it's Carrier assigned phone number.

Again, this phone number cannot be dialed directly. It’s sole purpose is to be paired with the phone number assigned to the iPhone.

While I will not explain how in this forum, the Watch's unique phone number can be used independently with the Watch, so it can function as a full stand-alone Voice & Data device.

Dave

 

[deadworlds]

Update:
I received a call from the senior advisor whose been handling my case, we have started chatting quite regularly now.
She called me because her engineer was able to replicate the same issues we've been having and he wanted some more info and to perform some tests. I was able to bring their attention to the issue revolving around the Wifi Calling toggle being present when cellular plan is NOT on the watch but disappears when cellular plan is ON watch.

I also brought their attention to WiFi calls failing when Cellular Toggle on watch is off. She relayed the information back to the engineer and we wait again. At this point she told me the engineer was able to replicate the issue I had but that engineer was not sure if this was intended behavior or not. She also insinuated that the engineers are really just engineer techs and not actual engineers who do the programming. I guess the engineers relay their findings back to the programmers. So anyway, the wait continues but I am glad they are digging deeper into the situation.

 

[sirozha]

NumberSync (NumberShare, Digits,...) causes the behavior you described above. Again the Watch's phone number exists for a couple of very good reasons not just for the magic of NumberSync. When the Watch registers to the Carrier's network; LTE or Wi-Fi, as a Voice & Data device, it has to have a phone number which it tied to the ICCID from the eSIM.

First so the Carrier can log the information required for the legal reason I provided in my post previously. It is also actually used to make the Watch ring anytime the iPhone is not available (LTE / Wi-Fi(when it finally works)). The originator of the call may not call this number directly but the Carrier's systems defiantly make the Watch ring using it's Carrier assigned phone number.

While I will not explain how in this forum, the Watch's unique phone number can be used independently with the Watch, so it can function as a full stand-alone Voice & Data device.

Dave

When a Series 2 Apple Watch uses Wi-Fi Calling while being miles away from the phone and even with the phone turned off, there is no explicit phone number assigned to the watch, but yet the watch can make and receive calls at the iPhone number. Therefore, there’s obviously a way for the Watch to register with the carrier over Wi-Fi leveraging the iCloud ID rather than a separate phone number assigned to the watch. So, at least for Wi-Fi Calling, assigning a separate phone number to a Watch is not required. It’s probably required for registration via LTE, though, but only because carriers are using a legacy technology that requires phone numbers to be assigned to SIM cards.

A phone number itself is a legacy entity. With VoIP, Calls can be made using URIs, so phone numbers have not been necessary for two decades now. The fact that phone numbers are still in use doesn’t make them mandatory for the technology to function. It’s a matter of legacy entities and concepts having a stubborn tendency of sticking around beyond their intended lifetime.
[doublepost=1508586441][/doublepost]

Update:
I received a call from the senior advisor whose been handling my case, we have started chatting quite regularly now.
She called me because her engineer was able to replicate the same issues we've been having and he wanted some more info and to perform some tests. I was able to bring their attention to the issue revolving around the Wifi Calling toggle being present when cellular plan is NOT on the watch but disappears when cellular plan is ON watch.

I also brought their attention to WiFi calls failing when Cellular Toggle on watch is off. She relayed the information back to the engineer and we wait again. At this point she told me the engineer was able to replicate the issue I had but that engineer was not sure if this was intended behavior or not. She also insinuated that the engineers are really just engineer techs and not actual engineers who do the programming. I guess the engineers relay their findings back to the programmers. So anyway, the wait continues but I am glad they are digging deeper into the situation.

I’m having an issue with HomeKit in iOS 11 whose behavior is also completely screwed up compared to how it worked with iOS 10. It’s off topic, so I won’t go into detail here, but I’m also working with Apple support and having a similar inderect back-and-forth with an engineer through a senior advisor.

Apple has been releasing banana software for a while now. The software ripens after it has been delivered to the customer. Give it a year, and they will iron out most of the bugs just in time for iOS 12 release. It makes me wonder what the tens of thousands of Apple developers actually do since the software they release is so bug ridden.

 

[dave006]

When a Series 2 Apple Watch uses Wi-Fi Calling while being miles away from the phone and even with the phone turned off, there is no explicit phone number assigned to the watch, but yet the watch can make and receive calls at the iPhone number. Therefore, there’s obviously a way for the Watch to register with the carrier over Wi-Fi leveraging the iCloud ID rather than a separate phone number assigned to the watch. So, at least for Wi-Fi Calling, assigning a separate phone number to a Watch is not required. It’s probably required for registration via LTE, though, but only because carriers are using a legacy technology that requires phone numbers to be assigned to SIM cards.

Your Series 2 Apple Watch is classified as a "Secondary" device by the cellular carriers since it does not use Carrier Wi-Fi Calling, it uses Wi-Fi Calling on Other Devices feature. This means that it is not connecting directly to your Carrier's network but is using what Apple now calls "Wi-Fi Calling on iCloud connected devices".

This feature is designed to allow up to 5 qualified devices on the same iCloud account make/receive calls using your iPhone's explicit phone number via your Carrier's network. Note: If you have multiple iPhones sharing the same iCloud account, your Series 2 Watch can only be registered for Wi-Fi Calling on Other Devices to 1 iPhone.

To enable Your Series 2 for Wi-Fi Calling on Other Device, it has to be registered and be verified with your iPhone and yes there is an explicit number used and logged, and in this case it is the iPhone's phone number. The Series 2 does not have it's own phone number assigned because again it is not an activated primary cellular device, it does not have any type of SIM, and finally it does not have it's own Voice / Data plan since it can't connect directly to your carrier's cellular network.

Dave