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Caucasian Club
- Thread starter wdlove
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Oops. 46.7% for California is correct, as is 69.1% for the US. I don't understand why they count Hispanics as white though.
Can you build me a soapbox too?
I don't think this is more of a racial issue, as much as it is an equal rights in schools measure. There are clubs for asians, for blacks, and hispanics as well. If there can be no caucasian club than it is evidence of the discrimination against caucasians in schools and in the world, and only furthers the hypocracy created by these "culture" clubs.
It just amazes me that a caucasian club is controversial, while an asian club or black student union club is not.
It is hypocracy, unfair, and discriminatory.
And if none of you see that perhaps you should not look at the world through sunglasses.
It is not looking at the world through sunglasses to understand the history of the term "caucasian" and how it has been used. That is called historical perspective. I've said it quite a few times already, but again, these kids may have the best of motives, but the use of the term should cause concern.
At some point these statistics about x% being white, y% being hispanic, etc, etc, are going to become meaningless. I'm half Korean and half Finnish. So do I put a checkmark in the "Asian" box or the "White" box? I have no idea -- never did. I usually just pick one at random.
Could you elaborate on that? I never heard the term before I came to live in Singapore and was consequently labelled as such. I was quite astonished since I don't speak any Russian ;-). For us Germans, we usually talk about "Europeans"/"Americans" rather than "Whites" or "Caucasians".
That's so true. About the only purpose that these classifications serve even now are to help to identify your looks (for visas, passports etc.). Europeans are usually not aware that there is a huge difference between Chinese from China, Chinese from Canada, Chinese from Singapore... it's all Chinese for them. Just like for Asians, they are sometimes not aware that Europeans can be very unlike Americans, and that there are huge differences even between different European countries.
However, it's just a human trait to look for a simplification to estimate people. We like to know whether somebody is European/Korean/... in order to estimate what they are like. But in times like these with a lot of migration and individual lifestyles, it doesn't work any more. You can't take people at "face value" - you have to take your time to get to know them to really know them.
There's an interesting article on racial prejudice on
AllLookSame.com. Make sure you also take the test
.
This is perhaps the most idiotic rhetorical device I have ever seen in use.
Number one, no one is denying that Europeans have culture. And let me correct you by stating that ALL white people are from Europe. And I'm sure there is tons, even megatons, of culture in Europe.
Now for the idiocy of your remarks. Let's go through your thought-process:
1. We study ONLY European history in school (most likely somewhat of an exaggeration, but I won't go through the thought process of your mild self-delusion)
2. "School" is infallible and presents an entirely accurate perception of the world.
3. Because "school" is perfect and they tell me only things about Europe, that must make Europe very "cultural," whatever that means.
Here are the flaws.
1. School's not infallible. Textbook authors have opinions, and discerning readers understand that history is constructed from subjective perspectives, making no one work a perfect description of any event. In fact, countless "scholarly" works have propagated stereotypes--Just take a look at Orientalism.
2. You studied European HISTORY & CULTURE. HISTORY & CULTURE are not always good. The Crusades were part of Europe's HISTORY & CULTURE, and they weren't good. Neither were Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, a fair share of the Holy Roman Emperors, a good portion of the Popes and Catholic officials who sold salvation and peddled Providence, etc.
Thus, we have determined that your textbooks weren't entirely accurate and even if they were, they didn't paint a wonderful picture about Europe anyway.
So Europe's got a story to tell. And I think if this is what this girl is after, then she should go ahead and tell it. But with all the dissent and distrust between the various segments of the European population, I seriously doubt that there is any one story with which all will agree, or one opinion that all will support.
But remember, Europe's not the only place that has a story to tell. While much of Europe had yet to form cogent civilizations, the Indus Valley cities were going strong. Over a thousand years later, Europe would pay a bitter price for its filth, whereas the Indus Valley had a clear sense of hygiene. Plumbing, too, existed, which added to the cleanliness. On the other hand, even during Elizabethan times, one would walk with care in England, for at any moment, a bucket with human feces could be dumped out the window. And I wouldn't mention the human sweat used as perfume unless I really thought that it drove home the point. In Southern India, thousands of years before even this "height of European civilization" great Dravidian empires, shrouded now by time, thrived, though they leave but subtle record of their existence.
In the Middle East, the seeds of major civilization were sown and blossomed.
The Egyptians built palaces and pyramids that dwarfed the structures of their European counterparts. Their armies rivaled the power of Rome, when that power came to be.
In China, innovation abounded, and much for which Europe's late thinkers would take credit was already born in the East long before.
Europe has culture and history and value, indeed. But think first, or learn, about the rest of the world before in hubris you mock its cultures and histories and values.
Originally posted by Giaguara
Well, some statistics I saw said in LA area 40 % of people are White. 46 % Latin, thus whites are the biggest minority ...
WELL, technically, whites are the second largest minority there. Latinos are the largest minority. There is no majority, you see, because no one has 50%+1 of the population. So it's a plurality, and I'm a detail-centric jerk who had to point that out...Sorry...
Your point is well-taken, though, not to mention, well-made.
NEVER, EVER put a check mark in the Asian box...NEVER...Well, at least if you're applying to colleges.
People make a big to-do about affirmative action, but the real story is "denying action."
Asians are about 5 times over-represented in most major universities. Their over-representation is, interestingly, a factor directly proportionate the the prestige of the university and its amoung of research, esp. scientific. It is indirectly proportionate to what I refer to as the "hick factor," meaning that the university is out in the boonies where people say "them there" on a frequent basis.
Anyway, if you check the Asian box, you will be subject to denying action. Univerisites desire to keep a cap on their Asian population, which is excessively high. At least whites are represented proportionally in universities, which means that they are less affected by the backlash from affirmative action, denying action, than Asians.
You know how conservative college students are having those affirmative action bake sales? You know, a cupcake costs a white guy a dollar, an African-American half a buck, a Latino about a quarter or so. Well it should cost an Asian $3.75 (plus tax, for good measure).
Plus, we don't have the benefit of being the majority. We are discriminated against significantly, violently in some instances (note violent and unfair attacks of Sikhs after Sept. 11, even though no Sikhs were involved; also note Justice Department's active discrimination against all "brownies" after Sept. 11 through the Patriot Act).
And that about sums up our place in American society. There are too few of us to have the perks of being the majority, and there are too many of us (at least in higher education) to have the perks of being a minority.
Sorry for the multiple posts, but there were so many interesting topics brought up in this thread that I felt needed to be addressed separately.
We're starting one
I know this Lisa stuff is old news but me and a couple of my friends are starting the White American Student Union at our high school. The demographics at our school come out to be about 76% hispanic 19% Asian and Pacific Islander 3% African American and 2% WHITE. This group will support the minority of the school. We actually have a lot of support from teachers and some other employees of the school. We already have two teachers that want to be our advisor and the news that we are starting it just got out a couple days ago. I hope that we won't get any resistance like Lisa got. Wish us luck if you like us and if you don't I don't hold it against you.
I know this Lisa stuff is old news but me and a couple of my friends are starting the White American Student Union at our high school. The demographics at our school come out to be about 76% hispanic 19% Asian and Pacific Islander 3% African American and 2% WHITE. This group will support the minority of the school. We actually have a lot of support from teachers and some other employees of the school. We already have two teachers that want to be our advisor and the news that we are starting it just got out a couple days ago. I hope that we won't get any resistance like Lisa got. Wish us luck if you like us and if you don't I don't hold it against you.
Re: We're starting one
CKYou, can I ask what is the purpose of this group you are starting? Also, what is the reason you chose the name "White American Student Union"?
CKYou, can I ask what is the purpose of this group you are starting? Also, what is the reason you chose the name "White American Student Union"?
Good luck with starting that club man! On the seattle homefront, an individual at my school is appealing to the school board to have the muslim club abolished at my school. In other news, I was told that I could not start a caucasian club at my school because it would cause discrimination? Causing me to want to say, wtf? So discriminating against someone would not cause discrimination?
Thanks
The reason for me and my friends making this club is to educate the whole student body about the lost culture of the Americans and the values. We're in America aren't we. There are about 6 different clubs that deal with hispanics just alone. And the purpose of the name is for one thing to stir up some people(the name was actually the idea of one of our advisors) and the other is to have our(caucasians) name on something and give us(caucasians) a group. And WOW I didn't think there would be replies on the first day that I posted it. Thanks for the support.
The reason for me and my friends making this club is to educate the whole student body about the lost culture of the Americans and the values. We're in America aren't we. There are about 6 different clubs that deal with hispanics just alone. And the purpose of the name is for one thing to stir up some people(the name was actually the idea of one of our advisors) and the other is to have our(caucasians) name on something and give us(caucasians) a group. And WOW I didn't think there would be replies on the first day that I posted it. Thanks for the support.
Re: Thanks
CKYou, it sounds as if you have reason to try and celebrate different cultures in your school. I'd like to make a few observations if I could. Take them for whatever worth you find in them.
First, there is no single "white" or American culture. The many different European immigrants that came to this country all had their own culture that became a part of the larger culture of our country. That larger American culture is in reality a continuing mix of cultures that is renewed all the time. It includes not only those cultures from Europe, but also many others including those from countries of Asia, Latin America, and Africa and of course the many cultures of the native peoples of America. The celebration of the cultures brought from Europe should not be seen as at odds with the contributions from other parts of the world (even if it seems at times that is the message given by the other groups you mention in your school.)
Second, culture changes. It is not a static thing, if it is slow moving. Look to the many-fold adaptations that cultures bring to our quest to make sense of the world and to survive. It is both a individual and social experience. My experience is from that of immigrants from many countries, mainly Ireland and Norway. The number of generations here and the places my family lived have shaped the culture I've lived in as much as my own particular history. My suggestion is to look to your own and your friends lives and family histories for the richness of those experiences as something to celebrate.
Lastly, I would stay away from terms and things that place you at odds with your fellow students. By that I mean there is no such thing as a "white" race or any other race for that matter. We are all Homo sapiens sapiens with no scientific reason for any "racial" divisions. Too often these kind of labels are used to promote the idea of the inferiority of one "race" over the other. You have somethings in common with other kids who have European ancestors, you have more in common with all kids no matter what their ethnic heritage.
I wish you luck. And remember your culture is not lost it is only part of a great mix of cultures that makes up our national experience.
CKYou, it sounds as if you have reason to try and celebrate different cultures in your school. I'd like to make a few observations if I could. Take them for whatever worth you find in them.
First, there is no single "white" or American culture. The many different European immigrants that came to this country all had their own culture that became a part of the larger culture of our country. That larger American culture is in reality a continuing mix of cultures that is renewed all the time. It includes not only those cultures from Europe, but also many others including those from countries of Asia, Latin America, and Africa and of course the many cultures of the native peoples of America. The celebration of the cultures brought from Europe should not be seen as at odds with the contributions from other parts of the world (even if it seems at times that is the message given by the other groups you mention in your school.)
Second, culture changes. It is not a static thing, if it is slow moving. Look to the many-fold adaptations that cultures bring to our quest to make sense of the world and to survive. It is both a individual and social experience. My experience is from that of immigrants from many countries, mainly Ireland and Norway. The number of generations here and the places my family lived have shaped the culture I've lived in as much as my own particular history. My suggestion is to look to your own and your friends lives and family histories for the richness of those experiences as something to celebrate.
Lastly, I would stay away from terms and things that place you at odds with your fellow students. By that I mean there is no such thing as a "white" race or any other race for that matter. We are all Homo sapiens sapiens with no scientific reason for any "racial" divisions. Too often these kind of labels are used to promote the idea of the inferiority of one "race" over the other. You have somethings in common with other kids who have European ancestors, you have more in common with all kids no matter what their ethnic heritage.
I wish you luck. And remember your culture is not lost it is only part of a great mix of cultures that makes up our national experience.
ok
I understand what you are saying fully. The thing is we want to stir up some feelings and maybe bring some attention to a subject that people don't want to talk about. We want this club to be a serious cluband for it to last far after we leave the high school. But we also want to make some wave in the water we call society and show our diversity from everyone else(even though we basically are everybody). This club is only represented by four "white" students and the rest of the the thirty kids are hispanic, asian, or black. And also why is being a "Black Student Union ok but being a "white" Student Union not? I'm probably bringing up an old subject but there. Thank you for listening.
I understand what you are saying fully. The thing is we want to stir up some feelings and maybe bring some attention to a subject that people don't want to talk about. We want this club to be a serious cluband for it to last far after we leave the high school. But we also want to make some wave in the water we call society and show our diversity from everyone else(even though we basically are everybody). This club is only represented by four "white" students and the rest of the the thirty kids are hispanic, asian, or black. And also why is being a "Black Student Union ok but being a "white" Student Union not? I'm probably bringing up an old subject but there. Thank you for listening.
Re: ok
First, tazo I'm going to ignore that silly remark.
In answer to your question every word and its usage has a history. In so far as any term is used to mean that there are separate "races" of people it is wrong. If the term "black" is used in this way it is just as wrong the word "white" or "brown" or "yellow" etc. However, the use of the term "black" also comes out of the experience of a specific ethnic group to find a word that spoke to their history and the need to find pride in that history. There is a history of the "Black power" movement of the 1960s to embrace the word and to look to the history and culture with pride. You will notice that this term is often replaced with the term African American today, partly in an effort to not have an identity so tied to a perception of skin color, but instead tied to the cultural history of a people.
That is very different from the use of the term "white." Though your experience maybe different there has not been a similar use of the word in the European American experience. Not only has "white" been used in an unscientific way to describe people, its own history of use in not a very positive one. Too often it calls to mind groups who have tried to maintain a supposed inferiority of other "racial" groups. The racist organizations of the KKK, the Nazi party, the "white" people's councils of the old south etc. have all talked of a "white" race. It is clear from your comments that you have nothing in common with this kind of nonsense, but sometimes it is best to give those that don't know you the right impression from the start. All of this is why my advice would be to stay clear of the term.
Now, tazo, if you want to participate seriously in this discussion I'd love to hear it.
First, tazo I'm going to ignore that silly remark.
In answer to your question every word and its usage has a history. In so far as any term is used to mean that there are separate "races" of people it is wrong. If the term "black" is used in this way it is just as wrong the word "white" or "brown" or "yellow" etc. However, the use of the term "black" also comes out of the experience of a specific ethnic group to find a word that spoke to their history and the need to find pride in that history. There is a history of the "Black power" movement of the 1960s to embrace the word and to look to the history and culture with pride. You will notice that this term is often replaced with the term African American today, partly in an effort to not have an identity so tied to a perception of skin color, but instead tied to the cultural history of a people.
That is very different from the use of the term "white." Though your experience maybe different there has not been a similar use of the word in the European American experience. Not only has "white" been used in an unscientific way to describe people, its own history of use in not a very positive one. Too often it calls to mind groups who have tried to maintain a supposed inferiority of other "racial" groups. The racist organizations of the KKK, the Nazi party, the "white" people's councils of the old south etc. have all talked of a "white" race. It is clear from your comments that you have nothing in common with this kind of nonsense, but sometimes it is best to give those that don't know you the right impression from the start. All of this is why my advice would be to stay clear of the term.
Now, tazo, if you want to participate seriously in this discussion I'd love to hear it.
I'm one of CKYou's confidants in the WASU organization, and I would like to say that WASu is a social commentary on how double standards exist in this country. I know that I am not looking for trouble, but I am expecting it, and if trouble comes my way, I welcome it. I know that there is no grounds on which an argument can be made. And a sub-note, I am another founding member, and I am half white and half mexican.
I know
I know that "white" has a bad connotation after all of the hate that was put into the word. If I were to yell "White Power" at my school, I would be most likely stabbed, beat up, or shot. And I understand why that would happen. I want to show that white isn't such a bad word after all and I want to show that there is more to the word white than hate.
I know that "white" has a bad connotation after all of the hate that was put into the word. If I were to yell "White Power" at my school, I would be most likely stabbed, beat up, or shot. And I understand why that would happen. I want to show that white isn't such a bad word after all and I want to show that there is more to the word white than hate.
There's such thing as skin color? Oh my, I forgot about that, I have to be rascist now to my friends because I forgot that they had different color skin.