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Caucasian Club
- Thread starter wdlove
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Re: Re: Re: change in plans
That is just it, i see no clear definition of what this club is. If i have to decide for myself what the club is, there are going to be others that will ask that same question. And others may not be open minded to the answer and will have a negative attitude toward it even before you answer it. I also think that the person who's starting this club should have a defined answer for his principle.
If you want approval for something, your gonna have to do a little bit of prep work, you can't expect that principle is going to tell you the point of the club you came up with.
i'm curious to see how this turns out.
That is just it, i see no clear definition of what this club is. If i have to decide for myself what the club is, there are going to be others that will ask that same question. And others may not be open minded to the answer and will have a negative attitude toward it even before you answer it. I also think that the person who's starting this club should have a defined answer for his principle.
If you want approval for something, your gonna have to do a little bit of prep work, you can't expect that principle is going to tell you the point of the club you came up with.
i'm curious to see how this turns out.
Re: addition
As far as I can tell, the only kind of "white" clubs in existence are not ones that are either approved or ones you would like to have any association with. It is the nature of separating out "white" kids from the rest that leads to that problem. This brings up a question of your vision of your club. Can I ask if you want to have only "white" kids in this club or is it open to kids from all ethnicities? If it is a club to celebrate your cultural heritage or the cultural contributions of different European cultures to this country, how do you envision that working?
CKYou, I guess what I'm asking is similar to what revenuee has asked. Where do you see this club going?
One last thing, if you go ahead with this, be prepared for a lot of folks (not just on this mac site) to look to tell you what you are all about. There are many other agendas out there that will be striving to make more of this than I think you envision. That is true of folks on both sides of the political spectrum.
As far as I can tell, the only kind of "white" clubs in existence are not ones that are either approved or ones you would like to have any association with. It is the nature of separating out "white" kids from the rest that leads to that problem. This brings up a question of your vision of your club. Can I ask if you want to have only "white" kids in this club or is it open to kids from all ethnicities? If it is a club to celebrate your cultural heritage or the cultural contributions of different European cultures to this country, how do you envision that working?
CKYou, I guess what I'm asking is similar to what revenuee has asked. Where do you see this club going?
One last thing, if you go ahead with this, be prepared for a lot of folks (not just on this mac site) to look to tell you what you are all about. There are many other agendas out there that will be striving to make more of this than I think you envision. That is true of folks on both sides of the political spectrum.
Link
The article is very interesting and at the end is the following quote:
I sort of see CKyou's point but at the same time, it does seem somewhat countreproductive to establish a club solely based upon skin color. While many blacks and Muslims and Hispanics can lay claim to a common culture, that is very untrue for the majority of Euro-Americans. Is the point of the club to fight so-called, reverse racism? If so, then it might have some value. I wish you luck in your endeavors.
The article is very interesting and at the end is the following quote:
I sort of see CKyou's point but at the same time, it does seem somewhat countreproductive to establish a club solely based upon skin color. While many blacks and Muslims and Hispanics can lay claim to a common culture, that is very untrue for the majority of Euro-Americans. Is the point of the club to fight so-called, reverse racism? If so, then it might have some value. I wish you luck in your endeavors.
The club is open to the whole student body at my high school. Anybody can join and as I said before there are only three actual white kids that signed up for it. And the principal has forced to change the name again from the Caucasian American Student Union to something around the "Culture Club". But we still will talk about the American culture and what influences it has gotten from different sources. And there are some national past-times like baseball and some holidays that are only celebrated in America. But the thing is we couldn't even make a club called the "American Club" which I think there isn't a problem with.
Make the club name be 'Everyone welcome except caucasians-club" 
that will go fine since to include caucasians as the primary focus of a club is to be discriminatory and racist.
that will go fine since to include caucasians as the primary focus of a club is to be discriminatory and racist.Originally posted by tazo
Make the club name be 'Everyone welcome except caucasians-club"
cool 'tar tazo!
Do you ever have any constructive to add to a discussion? I certainly understand your point especially after reading the alternet.org article but you seem to have everyone in your crosshairs who isn't white or jewish or straight.
Once again, I understand your and CKyou's points but if the only reason to create a white club is to point out that in some schools whites arent' in the majority seems pretty senseless. It would seem to me that there are more constructive and instructive ways of going about it. Certainly bucking the system isn't necessarily a bad thing but doing so with no respect for those who make up the system is stupid.
It sounds like you got a positive and helpful response from your principal. How do you think it went? I've already told you what I think of the terms "white" and "caucasian," so no sense me saying it again. What is wrong with something like "European Cultures Club" or if you want to want to focus in on the US experience of people of European heritages then something like "European American Cultures Club"? Notice the use of the plural in both. It is a lot more accurate and hopefully would be better received.
I can understand the principal's not wanting you to call it the "American Club" because that would signify that all those not coming from European Cultural heritages were somehow not American. "American" culture is an amalgam of many cultures from around the world.
Glad to hear it is open to everyone as that seems the most important step in making sure folks understand what you are about.
What do you think you will do for activities of the club?
Those name sound really good. I'm going to have to run them by the advisors and the principal. And as far as activities go, we were thinking of going to a museum or to a baseball game. Something that shows what America (including all of it's influence s) is all about. I know in some places the Euro-American culture is still alive but the area around my school has turned into "Little Mexico" and there is nothing wrong with that except there is no safe haven for the so-called "white" person.
Originally posted by tazo
Make the club name be 'Everyone welcome except caucasians-club"
I like the 'tar as well, tazo. Now, tell me please what the heck is "caucasian" culture? I'm assuming that you're not talking about people from Armenia or Georgia, right? If you're talking about folks with "white" skin, then tell me how the culture of a Jewish American man from Brooklyn is the same as an Italian American man from North Beach in San Francisco or an Irish American woman from South Boston? What is this shared cultural experience that is common to everyone with a certain pigmentation in their skin?
CKYou, glad you like them. If I can make a couple of suggestions to kick around. Why not start with some joint activities with some of the other clubs? It might help those other club members understand that there is no antagonisms intended. Secondly, if you really want to find out about your cultures, how about making a contact with your local College or University's Cultural Anthropology department? They would have many people who could offer some great ideas. My own area of interest is Archaeology so it is not my specialty, but if you need any suggestions just post something online here and I'm sure you can get a lot of help.
Re: ?
I think that is meant for my response to tazo, right? It is something to think about for all of us who assume our culture is the same as folks who may look a little like us.
I think that is meant for my response to tazo, right? It is something to think about for all of us who assume our culture is the same as folks who may look a little like us.
If Caucasian culture is not like that of other cultures, isnt that all the more reason to celebrate that diversity, with say a club? No different than having 12 different clubs for asians, and 12 for hispanics, and 10 for arab-muslim cultures.
Again let me reflect on the hypocrisy of the whole thing. How is discriminating against a certain race, going to cause discrimination against other races?
Sounds like discrimination, to just one race.
And glad ya all like the tar, here is the full size pic:
http://www.boycottbuymusic.com/photo/gallery/source/dsc01867.html
-tazo
Again let me reflect on the hypocrisy of the whole thing. How is discriminating against a certain race, going to cause discrimination against other races?
Sounds like discrimination, to just one race.
And glad ya all like the tar, here is the full size pic:
http://www.boycottbuymusic.com/photo/gallery/source/dsc01867.html
-tazo
First off there is no such thing as race. It is a fallacy. Second, there is no such thing as race.
There are cultures and there are regional variations in skin, hair and eye color, height, weight and hairiness but race is a serious misnomer. Your promotion of the word only furthers the problem.
As SayHey said, Caucasian denotes those from the Caucusus region of Europe. I am not from there nor were my ancestors. Whenever I am presented with a form that wants me to indicate my ethnic background and it lists caucasian as an option, I either cross it out and write Northern Euopean or check "other" if it is an option. The word needs to be returned to those who own it and not misappropriated in order to promote some supremacy argument.
Why not start a Jewish club or one to celebrate whatever part of the world your ancestors came from? That would have legitimacy but to start one that celebrates only the color of your skin is definitely provocative and meant only to provoke a negative reaction from other people. You seem more worried about what other people are doing and less about what you could do to promote the culture of your ancestors.
BTW an American club would seem to indicate that it was about those who were here before Europeans arrived.
tazo,
I think Ugg said it very well, but let me throw my two cents in. If you have read my posts to CKYou and friends then you know I don't think the celebration of the many cultures of Europe or the cultural experiences of people of European descent is in anyway a bad thing. I don't have a problem with bringing people of different cultures from one region together to help promote understanding of all of their cultures. That includes the Cultures of every region of the world. What I do have a problem with is when this is turned into a "racial" issue. I especially have a problem with it if it means putting out a message of the supposed superiority or inferiority of a particular "race." Far too much evil (and I don't use that word often) has been done on the basis of these ideas not to take them very, very seriously.
Now CKYou and friends have the best of intentions, judging by everything they have said. I think it is great if they can help educate themselves and others about their culture. I have many times, and still do wish them luck and have tried to even help with suggestions. I hope I've cleared up any misconceptions about my positions.
tazo, with all of that, you still haven't answered my questions to you. That includes whether you believe there is a "caucasian" culture that all "white" folks belong to, and what is this basis for the idea of discrimination toward "whites"?
Tazo, I know there is prejudice that is directed at anyone who is different. That includes young men like you and CKYou. That kind of crap needs to be exposed and fought wherever it crops up. But, tazo, when I look at every indicator such as unemployment, wage levels, access to education, representation in positions of power, etc. I don't see any institutionalized form of discrimination that has turned "white" folk into some kind of victims.
If this is an argument about affirmative action programs then we can have a discussion about that, but even if I excepted that these programs were a new form of discrimination against "whites" (which I don't accept) then they haven't been very successful.
I think this is something more. I think it is a reaction to the inability to communicate over these very real divisions we have crafted in our society in any but the most hurtful ways. When I read your and CKYou's writing I hear young men who are saying "Hey, what about me! I'm important too." Unless we can heal some of those divisions we are going to hear a lot of angry voices saying that and much worse. In closing let me say that I think we all have a responsibility to lower the volume and listen, but tazo that includes you.
Sorry, about the length and maybe I sound too preachy, but I've worked on issues of social justice for a long time and I feel very strongly about them. I hope I've got that across.
Oh, and tazo - you've changed the 'tar again only I don't recognize who this is. Give me a clue?
Baseball may have started here, but it is certainly not a uniquely American sport anymore. Just ask Matsui!
And AFAIK no one here has suggested that a caucasion club shouldn't be allowed. Most of us have said we would like to see it take a positive role in the schools.
If the purpose is to build bridges and promote tolerance between people of different races, more power to you. If you only real goal is to "shake things up" or "rattle some cages" to prove your point and you end up causing divisvness then the club should be disbanded. Same goes for a black student union or a pink-with-purple-polkadots student union. It's kind of the same logic as Macrumors actually. If a troll shows up and is causing endless trouble for the mods, out they go regardless of their "right" to speak.
Remember, as a high school student, you aren't working with the full protection of the first amendment. If the school board doesn't like it, they get the final say. It will be very difficult to go above their heads.
And AFAIK no one here has suggested that a caucasion club shouldn't be allowed. Most of us have said we would like to see it take a positive role in the schools.
If the purpose is to build bridges and promote tolerance between people of different races, more power to you. If you only real goal is to "shake things up" or "rattle some cages" to prove your point and you end up causing divisvness then the club should be disbanded. Same goes for a black student union or a pink-with-purple-polkadots student union. It's kind of the same logic as Macrumors actually. If a troll shows up and is causing endless trouble for the mods, out they go regardless of their "right" to speak.
Remember, as a high school student, you aren't working with the full protection of the first amendment. If the school board doesn't like it, they get the final say. It will be very difficult to go above their heads.