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CBS.com Prepping HTML5 Video Playback for iPad

diabolic said:
As are those who think the lack of Flash will hurt the iPad in the long run.
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You must be referring to others in this thread. As long as content providers DO offer alternatives on their sites, there's no reason to think the iPad will be "hurt." The issue only arises when a user's experience is thwarted by one of these providers that doesn't offer more than one technology for their content delivery.
 
Piggie said:
As far as I've been able to gather, the ONLY reason why Flash won't run well products is simply that Apple won't allow Adobe to access the (for want of a better word) parts of the code that it need to access to actually make flash run well in the 1st place.

Like like saying they can't make me a fine wooden cabinet, but I won't allow them to access the nice special tools that I keep locked away in my tool cupboard.

Whereas Msoft Does give Adobe access to it's super sharp good tools so they can make high quality wooden cabinets for windows.
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Think about that for just a moment. Do you see a certain correlation? For whatever reason, malware doesn't seem to be able to use Flash to get into the roots of OS X, yet malware uses Flash as an expressway to invade Windows machines to the point that 50% of all Windows machines in the world carry some form of malware, either latent or active.

Now do you see the problem?
 
samcraig said:
You must be referring to others in this thread. As long as content providers DO offer alternatives on their sites, there's no reason to think the iPad will be "hurt." The issue only arises when a user's experience is thwarted by one of these providers that doesn't offer more than one technology for their content delivery.
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Yes, I am referring to others. I just don't think Flash is going to be a deal-breaker for most people. I'm all for providers offering Flash, HTML5, or whatever combination that they decide will bring the most users for them.
 
Scooterman1 said:
The thing is, Apple is blaming Adobe for OS X not being able to handle Flash. And if Apple can't make it run on a Mac, they won't try it on an iPhone or iPad. Adobe builds a pretty good Application, and Apple blames them for something Apple can't make their OS do. It runs on other OS's fine. Why does Apple blame Adobe for something Apple falls short on having the technology in their OS to handle?
That being said, I've looked on the Internet for a good HTML5 authoring program. Yes, I looked on the Canvas site. What a let down. That site looks like they dream of having something, but in fact aren't offering anything that comes close to Flash. Not even the inexpensive Flash Authoring programs like SwishMax. And I'd like to be able to find one. Even one that converts Flash to HTML5. I see a lot of people on this Forum that is like a Parrot. If Apple says something may be great, the Fanboys are saying it IS, or will be great.
I just can't find anything. And unless Apple becomes very large in the Computer market (percentage of users), it will be a long time before something replaces Flash. If HTML5 will be so great, why can't I find something to author vidoes with, let alone something inexpensive. Or even convert. I run a few websites, and would welcome an alternative. One that would run on Apple computers AND PC's, iPhones, iPad, etc. And an inexpensive alternative!
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This is, of course, nonsense. Apple didn't write Flash, nor does Apple have any control over the way it's written. Adobe wrote flash - and it stinks on every platform.

As for Apple's control, no they can't FORCE anyone to drop Flash. Yet their carrot of 65 million pairs of eyeballs plus plenty more coming has apparently encouraged many people to do so.

HTML5 and Javascript will do almost everything that Flash will do. The fact that you are unable to use it is YOUR problem, not Apple's.

Piggie said:
As far as I've been able to gather, the ONLY reason why Flash won't run well products is simply that Apple won't allow Adobe to access the (for want of a better word) parts of the code that it need to access to actually make flash run well in the 1st place.

Like like saying they can't make me a fine wooden cabinet, but I won't allow them to access the nice special tools that I keep locked away in my tool cupboard.

Whereas Msoft Does give Adobe access to it's super sharp good tools so they can make high quality wooden cabinets for windows.
Click to expand...

That is nonsense. Apple has APIs which allow hardware acceleration and Adobe has chosen not to use them. To use your analogy, Apple has a shop full of fine wood-working tools and Adobe refuses to use anything but a rip saw and sledgehammer.
 
Darkroom said:
ok, that's better. however, i'm amazed that some people are calling this the Flash killer. it's pretty choppy at large view and eats up more CPU than fullscreen Flash. clearly, this is no where near being an alternative to Flash development.
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Of course it is. What you're actually saying is that it doesn't do EVERYTHING Flash does, nor does it do SOME of the things it does AS WELL as Flash does. What you're NOT saying is that it "is no where near being an alternative to Flash development". If you do not what to use Flash... then its an alternative, and it is as viable as your needs are. Most Flash games are very simple, and kids play them is a little window. Some would be well advised to either HAVE or BEGIN a non-Flash game portal like miniclip.com, that caters to non-Flash running touchscreen browsers. Seriously. It's not ONLY doable, but HIGHLY desireable. Start off with easy casual games, and move it up to shooters and high movement games. The biggest challenge on platforms like iPhone OS however, is SOUND. If that can be dealt with, then we're in business.
Darkroom said:
here's a list of new Flash sites that are worthy of checking out. interesting stuff.
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Here's my comment to you... what if I told you most of the sites on the list there (Top 10), could actually be done WITHOUT requiring the use of Flash on all browsers other than IE versions below 9? One of the things critics need to recognize, is that Flash has a RICH development history and enormous developer community. As such, it has drowned out normal discussions on what can be down outside of it. "Just use Flash" would be the answer. As we move away from Flash, I guarantee, you'll be surprised at what opens up.

~ CB
 
knightlie said:
What's sad is that you Flash apologists can't see the writing on the wall. Every now and then some "web developer" comes in and tells us all how critical and popular Flash is. It's a closed, proprietary and unnecessary plugin that it's worth the hassle of using it. People don't want to be tied to junk like that - the results of Microsofts browser ballot screen in the EU shows the same thing - declining market share as soon as people have a choice.

The internet is embracing mobile devices, and many of those devices don't support Flash. Websites want eyeballs, not employment trend graphs, and if they have to drop Flash to get those eyeballs then that's what they'll do. And they are.

It's happening right now. Come back in five years and show us your graph. Perhaps you could use Flash to demonstrate what we're missing.
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I think you're dead on. Most people are excited for anything to evolve, and most people are pretty excited to *not* need a plug-in that is widely recognized as being responsible for many problems.

This verbal outrage is coming mostly from Flash developers talking. Most of them hide that fact to.
 
FFArchitect said:
This verbal outrage is coming mostly from Flash developers talking. Most of them hide that fact to.
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Maybe. I'm not one of them (developer) nor am I hiding anything.

I'm a realist. And the reality is - HTML5 and Flash will co-exist for a long time. Flash isn't dead or going away anytime soon. That's really more than opinion. And it isn't any bias towards or against either technology or Apple. Ultimately I don't care what technology is used as long as when I visit a site I'm able to view the content as it was intended to be viewed.
 
samcraig said:
Maybe. I'm not one of them (developer) nor am I hiding anything.

I'm a realist. And the reality is - HTML5 and Flash will co-exist for a long time. Flash isn't dead or going away anytime soon. That's really more than opinion. And it isn't any bias towards or against either technology or Apple. Ultimately I don't care what technology is used as long as when I visit a site I'm able to view the content as it was intended to be viewed.
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This is always the way to bet when it comes to technology. I mean, are mainframes dead? No, they are still used when it's appropriate, needed and cost-effective. But the mainframe era is long gone.

Flash will be around for a long time. What is changing is the need for Flash. It used to be you needed a mainframe to get computing done. Then new technology came along that had advantages, and suddenly most folks didn't need a mainframe any more. In the future, those who want Flash will find it. The rest of us won't need it and won't use it.
 
NebulaClash said:
This is always the way to bet when it comes to technology. I mean, are mainframes dead? No, they are still used when it's appropriate, needed and cost-effective. But the mainframe era is long gone.

Flash will be around for a long time. What is changing is the need for Flash. It used to be you needed a mainframe to get computing done. Then new technology came along that had advantages, and suddenly most folks didn't need a mainframe any more. In the future, those who want Flash will find it. The rest of us won't need it and won't use it.
Click to expand...

Well yes. But do you think the day (or even pre-launch) of the more modern computer people said that mainframes are dead? The flip side to technology is that it also has to prove itself to be a replacement. And it's far too early for those sentiments.

It could easily be 5-10 years before flash is UNDERutilized vs HTML5 or any other technology that can come around in that timeframe.

My objections in this thread stem around those that think Flash is going to magically disappear from the web tomorrow or - as I said - anytime "soon."

Oh.... and minor point. I do think there's a difference between software and hardware making your mainframe analogy OK - but not ideal.
 
kernkraft said:
2. The iPad will not play Flash, will it? The problem hasn't gone away. Try browsing without Flash for a day - I did and had to switch back after an afternoon. Some sites will implement HTML5 fairly soon, but it would take several years to get Flash out of most of the sites that the majority use.

3. Yeah, right... Apple is known for not abusing its powers in any way...


(not sent from my iPad)
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You're way wrong on so many accounts.
 
Fair enough, so I'll make a software analogy: Microsoft Office is no longer needed. There are enough free choices available that have enough compatibility on whatever platform you use that you can easily avoid buying Office unless you have very specific needs.

That's Flash today. If you need it, well, you need it. For most of us, sites are already offering alternatives that work well.
 
kernkraft said:
I don't think it's that simple. There are sites, where Google ranking is not really a major issue. Try major car manufacturers and you will see. Or design companies. Many of them use Flash extensively. Or many sites only feature limited amount of Flash. There is nothing wrong with that, you can achieve beautiful results with Flash.

Before anybody would argue that you can also have nice results without Flash, I would like to point out that some of us pay for web design and we don't want a geek wasting long hours with minor details. If you can get a nice result in X hours, I don't want to pay twice as much for the same result, just because it's not Flash and it takes a lot longer to code. Even these major newspapers used and still use Flash.

I'm sure that if the iPad would support Flash, there wouldn't be so much hostility towards it. What the hell is happening with these people?
Click to expand...

Personally I DREAD going to a car manufacturer's site BECAUSE of flash.
HateHateHate it.
I'm there for information not some "Whoop-de-do!Look what I can do ma!"garbage that just wastes time and makes navigation a royal pain.
 
NebulaClash said:
Fair enough, so I'll make a software analogy: Microsoft Office is no longer needed. There are enough free choices available that have enough compatibility on whatever platform you use that you can easily avoid buying Office unless you have very specific needs.

That's Flash today. If you need it, well, you need it. For most of us, sites are already offering alternatives that work well.
Click to expand...

Agreed. But just because there are several free alternatives doesn't mean Office is going to die anytime soon. And also - your analogy (which is why analogies are hard) also suffers from paid vs free alternative.

If Office was free and the alternatives were free - would one usurp the other? I don't think so. People would have preferences and as long as one person can communicate/share with another, then the bells and whistles that come with whatever software package would be just that - preferences.

All browsers are free. And people have preferences. And there are positives and negatives to all of them. They are co-existing. And while one might have dominance, none of them are going to die anytime soon.
 
samcraig said:
All browsers are free. And people have preferences. And there are positives and negatives to all of them. They are co-existing. And while one might have dominance, none of them are going to die anytime soon.
Click to expand...

Perhaps. But what if one of those browsers was slow, buggy, a huge security risk, and cause your CPU usage to skyrocket and your battery life to drop. Wouldn't you expect that browser to fall out of favor at some point?
 
Vulpinemac said:
Your logic fails on the most critical point: OS X is an operating system. Flash is an application supposedly designed to run in an operating system. Why should the operating system be modified to let an application run, when if the application were properly written, it would run on the operating system?
Click to expand...

For the very same reason that OS X won't run on anything but Apple's hardware. Apple works good if it runs on a very limited set of hardware. But they don't have anywhere near the expertise, or ability, to run on as wide a range of products as MS. I wish they did!!! But let's face it, if it runs so poorly on OS X, and everything at Apple is THEIR secret, I find this interesting. Apple wants to stay secret, and decide what you can use, so they bash Flash. They accused Bill Gates of being greedy..... Come on! It's all about money, and selling hype. That's what makes products so successful. They sell you on an image. Just like Harley-Davidson is so successful...... they sell Image. Windoze runs circles around OS xxxxxxx, because MS supports so many types of hardware, and advanced graphics (in the case of Flash), but Apple sells Image..... and so many want to own a piece of that Image. Yeah, I own a Harley AND a few iPhones.
 
jragosta said:
Perhaps. But what if one of those browsers was slow, buggy, a huge security risk, and cause your CPU usage to skyrocket and your battery life to drop. Wouldn't you expect that browser to fall out of favor at some point?
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Ok - you just described IE. Still seems to be going strong :)
 
jragosta said:
This is, of course, nonsense. Apple didn't write Flash, nor does Apple have any control over the way it's written. Adobe wrote flash - and it stinks on every platform.

As for Apple's control, no they can't FORCE anyone to drop Flash. Yet their carrot of 65 million pairs of eyeballs plus plenty more coming has apparently encouraged many people to do so.

HTML5 and Javascript will do almost everything that Flash will do. The fact that you are unable to use it is YOUR problem, not Apple's.

That is nonsense. Apple has APIs which allow hardware acceleration and Adobe has chosen not to use them. To use your analogy, Apple has a shop full of fine wood-working tools and Adobe refuses to use anything but a rip saw and sledgehammer.
Click to expand...

Flash runs GREAT on MS.... It sounds as though you're a Fanboy who hasn't tried a good PC. I wish it could run on OS X.

And as for your great expertise on using HTML5. What have you authored with it? And what did you use. Honest answer now. So far, HTML5 is mostly vaporware. But, I know, that's what Bill Gates started out selling.
 
Scooterman1 said:
For the very same reason that OS X won't run on anything but Apple's hardware. Apple works good if it runs on a very limited set of hardware. But they don't have anywhere near the expertise, or ability, to run on as wide a range of products as MS. I wish they did!!! But let's face it, if it runs so poorly on OS X, and everything at Apple is THEIR secret, I find this interesting. Apple wants to stay secret, and decide what you can use, so they bash Flash.
Click to expand...

You're clearly not a programmer. Apple has APIs that are publicly available. Thousands of other developers do just fine - even doing things that are far more complicated than a simple Flash animation. Can you explain to me why my video rendering software uses less CPU power and generates less heat than Flash? Why can others do it and no Adobe?

Furthermore, your argument fails because Flash fails on ALL platforms, not just Mac OS X. Granted, it may be worst on OS X, but it's lousy on everything else, too. How is it Apple's fault that Flash stinks on Windows?
 
jragosta said:
Perhaps. But what if one of those browsers was slow, buggy, a huge security risk, and cause your CPU usage to skyrocket and your battery life to drop. Wouldn't you expect that browser to fall out of favor at some point?
Click to expand...

No, because those problems tend to only happen to a few people, not all. So for all those people who don't suffer from any of those problems, they have no reason to change.
 
jragosta said:
You're clearly not a programmer. Apple has APIs that are publicly available. Thousands of other developers do just fine - even doing things that are far more complicated than a simple Flash animation. Can you explain to me why my video rendering software uses less CPU power and generates less heat than Flash? Why can others do it and no Adobe?

Furthermore, your argument fails because Flash fails on ALL platforms, not just Mac OS X. Granted, it may be worst on OS X, but it's lousy on everything else, too. How is it Apple's fault that Flash stinks on Windows?
Click to expand...

You're right, I'm not a programmer. I do write/author in Flash, Javascript, and HTML. I support several websites. But I'm not a Programmer. I'm an MCP in several certifications. I was even Novel certified. Have built many computers, networks, and done IT for years. But I'm not a programmer. Not any more. I did my Perl and Pascal time, but I'm not a programmer.

As far as Flash problems on all platforms..... Not being smart, but I'm really puzzled at that statement. I don't have problems with my Flash running. I have one website where I have Javascript menus, and 3 different Flash files running simultaneously. Seriously. I'm being honest here..... I don't have problems with the flash. I do have some problems with it running on ALL the browsers if I don't write it, or the HTML correctly. But, that is a Browser problem (or coding problem... depending on how you look at it). And the flash files are very small in footprints.
I really do wish I could find something for writing HTML5 or converting SWF that was easy to use. At this point, in order to use HTML5, you have to go through difficult coding.
If you are a Programmer, there could be a fortune awaiting you writing a good WYSIWYG Application/Software. And I may be one of the first to buy, if it's priced right.

I just had an interesting reply to a question about a good program for HTML5. One that I posted on my Software Vendors site. This company writes a LOT of Flash files, and is working on releasing MAC versions of their Software.
The company is CoffeeCup.

Here was their reply....

"The problem is browser support for HTML5/CSS3. It's a chicken and egg issue we doubt will be resolved anytime soon, even though IE9 looks promising."
 
Scooterman1 said:
"The problem is browser support for HTML5/CSS3. It's a chicken and egg issue we doubt will be resolved anytime soon, even though IE9 looks promising."
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That's not much of a problem. Browsers tend to include the latest tech as soon as they can or else they fall behind other browsers in mindshare. Especially if IE is moving in that direction, it's a cinch that any browser that does not currently support HTML5 will do so soon.
 
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