CES 2010: NVIDIA Tegra 2 to Power Tablets in 2010

[MikhailT]

Nobody called bull on the assertion that this has graphics performance like XBox 360 and PS3? Hey, maybe it's true, but that demo they were showing could look almost exactly the same on an original XBox or Gamecube. Just sayin'....

You do realize xbox360 is more than 4 years old now right now? It came out in late 2005. The graphics world move at very fast pace to the point that graphic cards are obsolete every 6-12 months unlike CPU at every 3 years. I'm not really surprised to see mobile chips having better performance than the consoles half a decade ago.

Secondly, the demos were showing a game that was ported, which mean it is probably not optimized for it. Like xbox360 first gen games, it looked like xbox as well, till the second and third generation of games came out, it started to push the graphics to the limit that really look realistic. It's the same issue here, give it two or three years, it'll push xbox360 graphics.

The issue here is the software catching up to the hardware. Look at some of the second gen games on the iPhone (NOVA) and compare it to the first gen game (Brothers in Arms) and you'll see a huge difference.

 

[ChazUK]

My point was, people are not buying tablets like they are buying netbooks; and I don't consider the the little media devices like the Archos or what Dell showed at CES as a "tablet" (not even the iPod Touch, tablet, to me at least means a 7 to 10 inch screen.) But ever since the Apple tablet rumors, now they are all scrambling to make a new breed of tablet. You can't deny this.

If the Apple rumors are true, Apple will show a tablet at the end of this month, ship in March and the companies showing their "slates" at CES right now will still not have brought anything to market... just watch.

Tablet PC's (the full on laptop type ones) were never targeted at the low cost, low spec market so I still don't understand what you are getting at. Secondly, is there an official rule on what is classed as a tablet?

I fully support the notion that the name "Slate" is back in the limelight because of the Apple roumors but people seem to be either forgetting things or making solid assumptions on things. Take the Dell Streak that was leaked October 22nd last year - only for Dell to be accused of copying Apple after the CES showing.

The name "slate" I agree with, the idea that no other manufacturer was ever going to make a portable tablet like device until the Apple roumours came up, I can't agree with.

 

[MikhailT]

Tablet PC's (the full on laptop type ones) were never targeted at the low cost, low spec market so I still don't understand what you are getting at. Secondly, is there an official rule on what is classed as a tablet?

I fully support the notion that the name "Slate" is back in the limelight because of the Apple roumors but people seem to be either forgetting things or making solid assumptions on things. Take the Dell Streak that was leaked October 22nd last year - only for Dell to be accused of copying Apple after the CES showing.

The name "slate" I agree with, the idea that no other manufacturer was ever going to make a portable tablet like device until the Apple roumours came up, I can't agree with.

Tablets has been around for a decade now, but in a convertible laptop form. The slates makes the most sense since it's just a slate with no keyboard or anything. As for Dell Streak, it isn't the first MID device, Intel has been promoting MID devices for years now for their new Mooretown CPUs that's suppose to come out by the end of the year.

 

[ChazUK]

Tablets has been around for a decade now, but in a convertible laptop form. The slates makes the most sense since it's just a slate with no keyboard or anything. As for Dell Streak, it isn't the first MID device, Intel has been promoting MID devices for years now for their new Mooretown CPUs that's suppose to come out by the end of the year.

That is wrong. I was using a tablet PC back in 2005 for work, the HP TC1100.
http://www.portafixe.com/images/tc1100_3_800x600.jpg

The keyboard was completely removable and it still retained full functionality.

 

[Red-red]

I hope they don't call it the iSlate, doesn't seem very Apple "like".

I'd love it if they went old School and called it the Newton and marketed it as a evolution of over a decades work & think different.

It'd certainly be a bit more fresh than the current way they market products which is getting a little long in the tooth.

 

[gate5blues]

Finally someone has stepped up with some compitition

Finally someone to help keep apple on their toes. It looks like a well thought-out tablet.

Nothing groundbreaking in terms of usability... those are all Apples ideas (ever since the release of the iphone). However, they thought alot about the hardware and that’s where this device just works. Seperate processors to handle seperate tasks and a good battery life.

Too bad it looks like a bit like a giant iphone... People will just keep thinking of Apple when they see it. Free marketing!

I'm holding off further comment until i see Apples magnificence

 

[lilskaterpunk]

This is AWESOME! This year has so far been good news

 

[bloodycape]

Unless I'm very much mistaken, Windows Mobile runs on ARM CPUs.

A rather pedantic statement granted, but it's still a Windows OS in the same vein that iPhone OS is a derivative of the Mac OS X fmaily of OSes.

You are not. The same goes for Windows CE which is a bit more windows like, but I think may have less software support than WM. Many times I have seen a 5in tablet like device running a custom interface and stuff on top of Windows CE, but thankfully we are seeing Linux and Android give it some good competition(and hopefully Apple so we can see a nice strong market here). Then again with intel Atom being low cost, some of these devices are now moving towards full fledge windows installs or custom hackintosh installs.

 

[HiRez]

HOW MANY processors and how many cores? The Tegra 2 chipset incorporates 8 independent processors (ARM Cortex A9 dual core processor) with a total of 8 x 2 = 16 cores?

It might be that, but the way I read it, it was multiple specialized chips (eg. 1 for video decoding, 1 or 2 for 3D, etc.).

 

[HiRez]

so many corporations fall victim to not following their own vision.

Or they do follow their own crappy visions...

In other words, many companies at the design phase just try to cram as many bells and whistles into a device and call it a day, instead of really thinking about what people need and how they want to use it.

 

[HiRez]

Tablets are just another stupid product to get people to buy things they don't really need. Whatever.

What's your point, doesn't that apply to about 95% of anything consumers buy? Nobody really needs a computer of any kind, nor a car, a chandelier, a tv set, candle holders, foot massagers, plants, chocolate truffles, golf clubs, or $1,000 purses. You only need basic clothing, shelter, and food, that's it.

 

[aristotle]

I see a lot of "hardware" fanboys here. If people should have learned anything, the software on the iPhone is what set it apart from phones that came before, not the hardware.

Some of you will never get it and you will never understand how hard it is to get software right. As a software developer with over a decade of "paid" experience, can tell you all that the UI of software will make or break acceptance of your software.

Gone are the days when people accepted mediocre software like MSFT has produced in the past.

 

[ChazUK]

I see a lot of "hardware" fanboys here. If people should have learned anything, the software on the iPhone is what set it apart from phones that came before, not the hardware.

Some of you will never get it and you will never understand how hard it is to get software right. As a software developer with over a decade of "paid" experience, can tell you all that the UI of software will make or break acceptance of your software.

Gone are the days when people accepted mediocre software like MSFT has produced in the past.

I guess there is no need for Apple to ever release a new model then? Why did Apple even market the 3GS as the "fastest, most powerful iPhone yet" and have all their lovely stats compared to the 3G?

Hardware specifications do play a part in some peoples purchasing decision as much as software and Apple even know this.

 

[Thex1138]

Software Suite for HP + MS Tablet

Except in Nebraska

 

[Pilgrim1099]

I'm not saying I have an iphone since I don't have that except for the Blackberry Curve. It works great for me and gets the job done as I don't have to worry about checking email at home and communicate on the go. Plus the unlimited data plan is cheap for $30 a month flat under a special plan for deaf people, the drawback is that if someone tries to call me or vice versa, I have surcharged added to it. Unfortunately, Apple's iphone does not have an accessible data plan for deaf people, to my knowledge, nor is their 'push' email there yet (the last time I checked).

I can easily multi-task on my Blackberry, switching back and forth with the apps, but one apparently can't do that on the iphone or ipod touch. The only thing that may change is if Apple's new iphone OS 4.0 allows multi-tasking, but can the processor handle that is the question.

My problem with people stating the tablet can make phone calls seem way off. The only sensible thing I can see is having a headphone jack which is obvious if they want to have private conversations. I have seen a few people in the local coffeehouse who have talked directly to the laptop screens using web chat a bit loudly. I can tell they were doing this and frankly, it came off a bit annoying. A few of them did this without headphones but some customers were sensible enough to do that as well.

I remember this one jacka$$ last summer sitting in the cafe, overdressed as if he was heading to a nightclub, this took place in the day time, sitting there turning on a laptop (I believe it was a MacBook Pro at the time) and talking to someone on it without the headphone. I could tell he was trying to be an 'attention whore'.

Imagine holding a tablet in front of you and trying to make an audio call. The only thing I can see is having a little 'web cam' built into it for such web conferences which would make a lot of sense. But holding the 'brick' to your ear? That can't be right. My point was that literally almost everyone has a cell or smart phone these days, not just the iphone alone. I have internet at home but could access it via wi-fi on my ipod Touch or via my Blackberry. If I wanted to do that somewhere else, I can also use my 'old school' Titanium 15 inch PowerBook.

Tethering with the iphone or any other phone with the tablet could be an option, if Apple allows that feature to be utilized for mobile web communications.

My problem and concern is that if you already have a phone plan with any other carrier and you buy the tablet, why pay for the data plan for this device if you already have internet access at home? We're talking three bills here: 1. phone bill 2. Home internet bill 3. Tablet carrier plan ( provided if it's 3G or anything related to the carrier's data plan).

If someone doe'snt want the carrier's internet plan and opt to use the wi-fi card built it, then they may have to buy the device 'unlocked' which may cost more instead of the subsidy.

Just because YOU have an iPhone doesn't mean everyone does. I for one hope that this Tablet comes with 3G phone capabilities, as I don't yet have an iPhone and this could be a device that covers that base. I'm not thinking that the big market for this Tablet is people who already own a touch-screen 3G device (just with a smaller screen). Those with an iPhone can buy it without using it's 3G functionality... if they want a bigger iPhone-like device. Those without an iPhone might choose to buy this Tablet INSTEAD of an iPhone, getting their iPhone needs covered in this ONE device.

No 3G inside means no subsidized pricing options. So if you get what you want, you pay the TOTAL price Apple will want for this device. On the other hand, if it has an OPTIONAL benefit to also cover 3G phone/data use, then it means that the likes of a a 3G partner(s) can chip in on the TOTAL price that Apple will want for it, yielding the rumored "shockingly low price".

Either way, building in 3G isn't adding hundreds to the cost of this thing. Leaving out 3G makes it lose very tangible benefits, including always-connected when you are outside of the reach of wifi. An ultimate "mobile" device needs a way to readily connect while it is moving around. If not 3G inside (with optional contract), then what?

 

[*LTD*]

I see a lot of "hardware" fanboys here. If people should have learned anything, the software on the iPhone is what set it apart from phones that came before, not the hardware.

Some of you will never get it and you will never understand how hard it is to get software right. As a software developer with over a decade of "paid" experience, can tell you all that the UI of software will make or break acceptance of your software.

Gone are the days when people accepted mediocre software like MSFT has produced in the past.

This is how Apple is at times to get away with lower specs and do spectacularly well. It's getting the combination of hardware+software right which is most important. Software is a huge factor in the User Experience.

 

[gunraidan]

This has been the case for a while now, the computer world is changing and some people dont like it.

15 years ago if you had a Computer at home you were a Geek, now if you dont have a computer your a Cave man.

The industry is now Fixed on the average person who is not that computer clever, doesnt want to control the world with their computer, and has a very short attension span.

Its no suprise to me that the latest incarnations of windows & mac OSX are smaller, faster and dont give you lots of new features, they simply try to make the old features easier and better to use.

Brillant post.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apples-new-thing-ipod.500/

Sweet Jesus!

$400 for an Mp3 Player!

I'd call it the Cube 2.0 as it wont sell, and be killed off in a short time...and it's not really functional.

Uuhh Steve, can I have a PDA now?

All that hype for an MP3 player? Break-thru digital device? The Reality Distiortion Field™ is starting to warp Steve's mind if he thinks for one second that this thing is gonna take off.

There are already two products similar to this on the market. The Nomad Jukebox and the Archos Jukebox which can come with a 20 gig HD. The iPod is obviously alot cooler and has firewire, but it is far from revolutionary. I for one am disappointed and think that apple is making a mistake by trying to get into this market.

And yet everyone in the thread completely missed why the thing ended up being so great. The interface and ease of use.

 

[Manic Mouse]

I would love to see a Tegra 2 based iPhone come June, with a 800*480 AMOLED screen like the Nexus One. That would be so awesome.

 

[deconstruct60]

Wow... after 2nd page of posts the Tegra 2 practically disappears from the content being discussed. The discussion thread is almost completely devoid of the subject matter of the article.

The Tegra 2 package incorporates an ARM chip so 0% chance it will appear in a MacBook or any Mac OS X device. ( Nvidia ... graphics .... -> knee jerk Nvidia is evil... posts. )


There are 8 CPUs but only 2 of them are ARM 9's. Much of the others are specialized processors for Video , Audio , etc.

http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3714

And yes you can do double digit hours on low batteries with dedicated hardware .... so yes this very well could outlast a mainstream laptop in terms of play back time. Pushing video decode through a mainstream CPU is much less efficient that through an instruction set that explicitly oriented to processing video.

ARM 9 + Nvidia architecture isn't all that much different than ARM 9 + PowerVR SGX545 ( or SGX435 ). Even if Apple uses a P.A. Semi crew merged chip it is likely going to be more expensive than the more mainstream parts that are going into a wide variety of devices ( since the run rate is higher ... more chips sold , individual unit prices go down. ) So it would make sense if Apple puts their "high than average" CPU/GPU combo into a "higher than average" device for the first generation deployment. Then later when it is cheaper or just shrunken move it to the lower cost devices.

 

[Freyqq]

You do realize xbox360 is more than 4 years old now right now? It came out in late 2005. The graphics world move at very fast pace to the point that graphic cards are obsolete every 6-12 months unlike CPU at every 3 years. I'm not really surprised to see mobile chips having better performance than the consoles half a decade ago.

Secondly, the demos were showing a game that was ported, which mean it is probably not optimized for it. Like xbox360 first gen games, it looked like xbox as well, till the second and third generation of games came out, it started to push the graphics to the limit that really look realistic. It's the same issue here, give it two or three years, it'll push xbox360 graphics.

The issue here is the software catching up to the hardware. Look at some of the second gen games on the iPhone (NOVA) and compare it to the first gen game (Brothers in Arms) and you'll see a huge difference.

are superseded by something newer, yes
replaced..no

The 8800GT came out about 3 or so years ago and can still run just about any new game just fine.

 

[cumanzor]

Who friggin cares what Steve said? Why should I care? All that matters, ALL THAT MATTERS is what rolls out of Apple. Steve can say whatever he likes to lead astray, obfuscate, and otherwise mess with industry minds. It's masterful. Steve says what he says and then we end up having incredible products - Macs, OS X, iPhones, iPod Touches, great software, the App Store, and there's no end in sight. If only those other idiots like Ballmer and Micheal Dell can pull that off. If this is what it takes to get this good stuff into our hands, then I'm all for Steve saying whatever he wants to say. Hell, he can recite the Declaration of Independence while doing cartwheels and then deny it all the next day, for all I care.

hahaha oh wow. I'm sure as **** those "idiots" are at least smarter than you. They are where they are for a reason. You on the other hand, only seem to be able to troll every single thing that is not pro-Apple.

 

[mjtomlin]

It looks like Apple's usual secretive nature has led to them being left behind in the tablet race already.

That nVidia chipset looks superb, with those graphics being around the quality of Unreal Tournament on the PC around three/four years ago.

It is funny how every design rips off the classic iPhone look with a black screen and chrome bezel.

Left behind!? Tablets have been around for nearly the entire '00 decade. You can't be "left behind" if you aren't following. Apple chooses not to build "tablets" as they aren't very practical for everyday use, well at least not in their current form of interaction.

You simply can't just cram a point-and-click desktop based interface into these smaller devices and think you're going to get the same amount of utility from them. Like the iPhone, and the Newton before it, a different interface needs to be designed and developed to maximize interaction.

 

[mjtomlin]

HOW MANY processors and how many cores? The Tegra 2 chipset incorporates 8 independent processors (ARM Cortex A9 dual core processor) with a total of 8 x 2 = 16 cores?

No... anything that processes data/code is a processor. The article states that it will more than likely include a dual core ARM Cortex-A9, which is two cores.

The other processors are probably all graphics related; a GPU, a separate video decoder, etc. You can increase efficiency if you build in processors that have specific purposes, freeing the GPU and CPU for other tasks.

 

[mjtomlin]

ARM 9 + Nvidia architecture isn't all that much different than ARM 9 + PowerVR SGX545 ( or SGX435 ). Even if Apple uses a P.A. Semi crew merged chip it is likely going to be more expensive than the more mainstream parts that are going into a wide variety of devices ( since the run rate is higher ... more chips sold , individual unit prices go down. ) So it would make sense if Apple puts their "high than average" CPU/GPU combo into a "higher than average" device for the first generation deployment. Then later when it is cheaper or just shrunken move it to the lower cost devices.

Well they already have the scale when you combine sales of the iPhone and iPod touch, which is supposed to reach a run rate of 50+ million units in 2010. Add the possibility of Apple producing a tabletesque computer sometime this year and it gives Apple a market not much smaller in size for their in-house SoC than any other.

Architecturally speaking, Apple codeveloped the ARM and owns part of Imagination Technologies (PowerVR GPU), both of these parts in their SoC could very well be unique custom Apple designs and not the generalized versions that appear in a mainstream SoC. This would allow them a level of optimization (performance, power efficiency, size) and software (OS X) integration that no other company could effectively match.

 

[twoodcc]

looking forward to all the new tablets coming out