China Threatens to Add Apple, Other US Companies to 'Unreliable Entity List'

[827538]

Folks, the manufacturing does not ALL have to come "back" to the USA. (Much of it was never here in the first place.)

The important thing is that it NOT be in China. Move it to Taiwan, India, Mexico, central Europe, etc. If some comes to the US, that's great.

But we should no longer have to rely on China for ANYTHING. You didn't see the US relying on the Soviets for anything during the Cold War, did you?

They did buy oil and titanium from the USSR. But I’m just being picky, you’re point is correct. There’s a major dislocation about to start, one that was inevitable in my book.

Those low skilled manufacturing jobs are already heading to India and Africa.

 

[CmdrLaForge]

The current US administration can’t be replaced fast enough.

 

[one more]

Apple is really in a tight spot here.... it’s time to bring manufacturing home... back to America

If it was beneficial for Apple it would have been in America to start with. However, managing complex supply chains, running environmentally taxing manufacturing and getting high margins on their sales - all of this benefits to Apple being where they are. China is the world’s mega-factory - just check “Made in” tags on most of your household items. Heck, most of Covid face masks, face shields and gloves come from China! Of course, Apple could get less greedy and pass on some of their gains to more local and responsible production, benefitting the local workers and nature in one go. They just do not want to. There is India and Brazil they are tapping in at the moment, though...

 

[iMi]

Astonishingly ignorant comments from people who clearly do not remotely comprehend any trade or economic models. The whole idea of "bringing all manufacturing to America" is plain misguided. Trade allows us to operate outside of our domestic production curve. We have a much higher GDP when we trade with other countries, including China. This emerging tribalism is destructive. China has every right to protect its interests. If our incompetent, bankruptcy-prone government head restricts strategic supply to China, they will retaliate. Wouldn't you?

Plus, turning our back on China would be an incredibly shortsighted move given the fact that they are quickly moving toward a full-blown service economy. Having access to a billion plus consumers would be a massive gain for Apple and any other American brand.

Last, I would like to see those "bring manufacturing back" people pay several times more for Apple products. They all bitch about the Apple "tax" already. Train for the jobs we have, as you'll make higher wages, and stop trying to turn America back to an industrial revolution age.
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Wasn’t it the Huawei phones that were in the news lately for allowing the Chinese government to access any phone at any time for any reason, including ones that are in other countries and owned by non-Chinese citizens, so it can spy on whoever they wanted to?

Are you sure you're not describing the Patriot Act here? What do you think our government does? I'm pretty sure there is a dude hiding out in Russia that could tell you more about the warrantless wiretapping of massive number of American citizens.

And why stop there. If you are to criticize the government of China, why not also talk about the atrocities committed by our government, in our name. Children locked up in cages, illegal wars, ruthless consumerism, environment impact, civil rights violations, broken justice system, lack of healthcare that's costing lives, state propaganda (aka Fox News), corporate lobbyists, financial market crash (two of them with a third on the way) that impacted literally the rest of the world due to greed, fraud and criminal activities (for which no one went to jail).

We're not so different. Government, here or there, isn't a friend to you.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

So, India, want to make some money?

 

[Zdigital2015]

Wasn’t it the Huawei phones that were in the news lately for allowing the Chinese government to access any phone at any time for any reason, including ones that are in other countries and owned by non-Chinese citizens, so it can spy on whoever they wanted to?

I don’t have a link to anything concerning Huawei, but Xiaomi has some issues of their own - https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomas...illions-of-peoples-private-web-and-phone-use/

 

[stockcerts]

China could put Apple on an "unreliable entity list" alongside other U.S. companies, in a series of punitive countermeasures the country is prepared to take against U.S. moves to block shipments of semiconductors to Huawei, claimed a report over the weekend.

According to the Global Times, the Chinese government's mouthpiece, the list would be a first step toward launching a series of investigations and imposing restrictions on U.S. companies such as Apple, Qualcomm, and Cisco.
According to comments made last year by a Chinese ministry of commerce official, once a company is added to China's "unreliable entity list" it would face necessary legal and administrative measures and the Chinese public would also be warned against dealing with it to reduce risks.

Beijing's latest tit-for-tat threat comes after the U.S. commerce department announced rules last week that limit U.S. companies from supplying semiconductors, parts, and processor designs to Huawei and its affiliates. The rules also apply to third-parties if they know they will eventually be used in Huawei products.

The move prevents Taiwan-based TSMC from purchasing U.S. supplies for chips that are used in Huawei phones. Nikkei reported on Monday that TSMC has already moved to stop new orders from Huawei, although TSMC told Reuters the reports were "purely market rumor."

Note: Due to the political or social nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Political News forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

Article Link: China Threatens to Add Apple, Other US Companies to 'Unreliable Entity List'

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I'm a huge fan of Apple, but I'm a bigger fan of America. I really hope that behind closed doors Apple is planning on pulling it's manufacturing out of China, especially now that China is directly threatening Apple.

 

[Smearbrick]

Time to tell China to take a hike break all ties with them and bring manufacturing back home to the states.

We don’t need China. Let’s move away from them.

Typical chest puffing without thinking response. Do you know how much that would increase the price of your already overpriced smartphone? Not to mention, how the quality control would drop? Most Americans aren’t going to work assembling phones for minimum wage - it just ain’t happenin’.

 

[trusso]

This thread (and the broader societal discussion) reminds me of something...

"A nuclear deterrent. Because that always calms everything right down."

Round and round we go...

 

[citysnaps]

Thank goodness we have iFix it where they do intensive tear downs that will uncover spy chips inside. Apple won’t leave China until something happens and Tims phone is hacked or spyed on remotely from China. Then they might move manufacturing.

Can we trust the iPhone 12 to be free of spyware?

Do you have any evidence to support the notion that China has ever inserted "spy chips" in Apple phones?

 

[SgtPepper12]

And why stop there. If you are to criticize the government of China, why not also talk about the atrocities committed by our government, in our name. Children locked up in cages, illegal wars, ruthless consumerism, environment impact, civil rights violations, broken justice system, lack of healthcare that's costing lives, state propaganda (aka Fox News), corporate lobbyists, financial market crash (two of them with a third on the way) that impacted literally the rest of the world due to greed, fraud and criminal activities (for which no one went to jail).

We're not so different. Government, here or there, isn't a friend to you.

Hey, how about you just go live in China for a while and tell us after a few years how it's just the same. I recommend a trip to a re-education camp to tell the Uyghurs how they should be glad they aren't in a US migration camp. Go tell journalists in China about how they should be glad that they at least don't have foxnews.

Look, nobody is innocent, but if you really don't see a qualitative ideological difference between the two systems, you are just being dishonest.

 

[iMi]

Hey, how about you just go live in China for a while and tell us after a few years how it's just the same. I recommend a trip to a re-education camp to tell the Uyghurs how they should be glad they aren't in a US migration camp. Go tell journalists in China about how they should be glad that they at least don't have foxnews.

Look, nobody is innocent, but if you really don't see a qualitative ideological difference between the two systems, you are just being dishonest.

I've been to China many, many, many times. No, I don't see much difference. Governments find ways to control and oppress people in their own way. China is no angel, trust me. But for us, Americans, to point a finger is just rich. We've committed war crimes, we've committed genocide, we've caused more environmental damage than any other country on earth, we have the highest income disparity on the planet, and if you actually believe we live in a democracy you're not paying attention.

 

[LogicalApex]

Every single time this topic comes up, there's some armchair president/CEO/quarterback that proclaims that US-manufacturing will solve Apple and America's woes.

Just *assembling* the iPhone is a menial task which will not provide good jobs. Relatively few laborers here in America put up with a high-quality, easy manufacturing jobs like putting automobiles together. Make that a precision (1/100ths of an inch), repetitive task? Yeah. No. Not when you can make more driving Uber, waiting tables, or working retail.

The entire smartphone supply chain from battery manufacturers, to display manufacturers, to the producers of the raw aluminum and steel are all located in Shenzhen, or across Asia (SK in the case of Samsung's AMOLED displays used in the Pro phones). Who, exactly, benefits from Apple shipping raw materials and components to have some American screw them together? Nobody.

Our economy moved away from manufacturing from the 1950s-present because it's low value, low skill work.

Assembling iPhone and other electronics isn't unskilled labor. It is very much skilled labor.

America moved away from manufacturing jobs because China has an almost endless supply of cheap labor and next to no environmental and labor laws. Even Apple admitted this when asked why they don't manufacture their phones in America and they admitted that in China you can wake up sleeping workers and get them back onto the assembly line to produce more phones at any hour. We don't allow that here because we have labor laws (and I don't think they should allow this in China either).

Another frustration with manufacturing in Texas: American workers won’t work around the clock. Chinese factories have shifts working at all hours, if necessary, and workers are sometimes even roused from their sleep to meet production goals. That was not an option in Texas.

“China is not just cheap. It’s a place where, because it’s an authoritarian government, you can marshal 100,000 people to work all night for you,” said Susan Helper, an economics professor at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland and the former chief economist at the Commerce Department. “That has become an essential part of the product-rollout strategy.”

Source: NY Times

Relations with China have been growing increasingly hostile over the last decade and American companies will need to balance their risk of placing all of their eggs there. The reality is though it is likely too late to fix this and companies will need to manage this alongside of other geopolitical risks. As the more dependent you are on China the more power their government has to force your company to do their bidding.

 

[Ramchi]

Actually only if you could manufacture yourself locally you can find out the automation opportunities, real industrial technological innovations in shop floor, process control systems, production operations which is exactly what China was doing all along. They actually getting into a state where they can automate most of the manufacturing but they won’t because there is enough workforce cheaper than deploying robots at this point but they are ready for mass automation.

 

[SgtPepper12]

I've been to China many, many, many times. No, I don't see much difference. Governments find ways to control and oppress people in their own way. China is no angel, trust me. But for us, Americans, to point a finger is just rich. We've committed war crimes, we've committed genocide, we've caused more environmental damage than any other country on earth, we have the highest income disparity on the planet, and if you actually believe we live in a democracy you're not paying attention.

Well, at least in the US you are allowed to post rubbish like that, so I guess in one way or another you are very aware of the differences

 

[Breaking Good]

Folks, the manufacturing does not ALL have to come "back" to the USA. (Much of it was never here in the first place.)

The important thing is that it NOT be in China. Move it to Taiwan, India, Mexico, central Europe, etc. If some comes to the US, that's great.

But we should no longer have to rely on China for ANYTHING. You didn't see the US relying on the Soviets for anything during the Cold War, did you?

This^^^^^^

If this pandemic has taught us anything, it should be that democracies should not be dependent on totalitarian regimes.

There are plenty of other undeveloped countries that would benefit from investment by Apple and other tech companies.

 

[anthogag]

China's government is an "unreliable entity".

If Apple is blacklisted in China, Chinese citizens can still buy from Chinese companies like Apples, Qualcommy, or Ciscon.

 

[Dozer_Zaibatsu]

Apple is really in a tight spot here.... it’s time to bring manufacturing home... back to America

I'd settle for Taiwan.

If the the CCP considers Apple an "enemy," I couldn't be prouder to be an Apple fanboy.

 

[Emanuel Rodriguez]

Not specifically picking on you folks, but I sometimes wonder if the members who post this sort of stuff aren’t 15 years old. Because if you’re a grown adult and you have this pie-in-the-sky idea that unilaterally pulling out of China is going to solve all our problems, then you are severely out of touch with reality.

Almost like someone who uses straw man arguments, whoever that is. I don't believe anyone claimed it'll solve "all our problems", but it certainly would solve a bunch of them.

Might even keep us from getting destroyed by the next virus China "accidentally" releases, if traffic in and out goes down. This isn't the first.

 

[Osamede]

Apple is really in a tight spot here.... it’s time to bring manufacturing home... back to America

Reality check, bud: at this point, if your job at any global company like Apple involves s risk analysis....you’ve probably placed the US on a list of countries with volatile and unpredictable political risk. In other words...unreliable counterparties.

All the Chinese government has done is pin the tail on the donkey. Probably EU policy makers are doing the same very quietly...

 

[pearvsapple]

TSMC and American tech companies are screwed if China actually takes Taiwan looool. Only Intel will be safe since most of their fabs are in the US.

 

[jamezr]

So, India, want to make some money?

yeah...China would be the big loser. All those imports that say Made in China...would soon say Made in India

 

[LogicalApex]

I've been to China many, many, many times. No, I don't see much difference. Governments find ways to control and oppress people in their own way. China is no angel, trust me. But for us, Americans, to point a finger is just rich. We've committed war crimes, we've committed genocide, we've caused more environmental damage than any other country on earth, we have the highest income disparity on the planet, and if you actually believe we live in a democracy you're not paying attention.

That misses the point I think. To argue that America isn't yet perfect so there is no room to criticize authoritarian regimes like China is a bit misguided IMHO.

America has its warts, like any other nation, but we are allowed too move our government and nation to the will of the people. China not so much...

This century will be a tussle between authoritarian regimes and democracies and technology gives authoritarian regimes a massive leg up. Hopefully we can weather this century properly.

Additionally, the US is a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy. Normally people don't really care to figure out the difference, but it matters. In the US Political System the minority interests is protected which makes governing a lot harder.

 

[5105973]

I've been to China many, many, many times. No, I don't see much difference. Governments find ways to control and oppress people in their own way. China is no angel, trust me. But for us, Americans, to point a finger is just rich. We've committed war crimes, we've committed genocide, we've caused more environmental damage than any other country on earth, we have the highest income disparity on the planet, and if you actually believe we live in a democracy you're not paying attention.

Yes America is a hot mess. That’s not pertinent to why Tim Cook should be having a massive wake up call to diversify means of production and marketing opportunities as much out of China as possible.

This is in fact long overdue as he’s been forced time and time again to cheerily demonstrate how Apple is all in on China, but every time the CCP gets offended by something that has nothing to do with anything Apple does or doesn’t do, they threaten to take it out on Apple.

If my best friend were in an abusive relationship like that, I would tell her to get the hell out. It is irrelevant if she comes from a dysfunctional family to begin with.

And yes, China is naturally going to retaliate against the US. Again, that’s between the US and China. Apple needs to get itself out of the line of fire.

There are other markets out there they could do more to cultivate.

 

[Metrosey]

Apple is really in a tight spot here.... it’s time to bring manufacturing home... back to America

While I get this stated and it would be great for it to happen, it’s not a cheap process. We’ll likely see a minimum of a 10 percent rise in prices, most likely seeing a 20-30 percent increase. That makes the iPhone a £1300 purchase, with the MacBook Pro 16 inch starting at £3000, so it would be rather costly.