China Threatens to Add Apple, Other US Companies to 'Unreliable Entity List'

[rp2011]

For those pinning for cheap labor here obs with suicide nets to catch you when you had enough and all the pollution generated from them. Well, just be careful what you wish for, i suggest you just be grateful we can possibly afford these goods and not have wade through pollution or unsanitary wet markets for food.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Apple is really in a tight spot here.... it’s time to bring manufacturing home... back to America

ah no.

the time has come for this ridiculous bullying to stop! Have we all not just been through hell pretty much?! This is someone in power loosing it and now adding misdirection. This is not the apprentice. I’m starting to really think all these trade moves and moves affecting businesses on both side has someone’s pockets getting lined and filled big.

What’s the real point affecting supply chain when they’re not longer doing 5G tower business in the USA and most of the western world???

 

[hellopupy]

Every single time this topic comes up, there's some armchair president/CEO/quarterback that proclaims that US-manufacturing will solve Apple and America's woes.

Just *assembling* the iPhone is a menial task which will not provide good jobs. Relatively few laborers here in America put up with a high-quality, easy manufacturing jobs like putting automobiles together. Make that a precision (1/100ths of an inch), repetitive task? Yeah. No. Not when you can make more driving Uber, waiting tables, or working retail.

The entire smartphone supply chain from battery manufacturers, to display manufacturers, to the producers of the raw aluminum and steel are all located in Shenzhen, or across Asia (SK in the case of Samsung's AMOLED displays used in the Pro phones). Who, exactly, benefits from Apple shipping raw materials and components to have some American screw them together? Nobody.

Our economy moved away from manufacturing from the 1950s-present because it's low value, low skill work.

The entire debate doesn't just revolve around jobs. Those who think its all about jobs is operating at too basic of a level.

The bigger question is, why are we outsourcing our jobs and supply chains to a country (un-opposed political party) that conducts pre-meditated stealing of technology, puts up major barriers to entry like high tariffs and forced joint-ventures, and harassment of our companies?

Its a valid question and nobody was pressing on this until 2016.

 

[Abazigal]

The entire debate doesn't just revolve around jobs. Those who think its all about jobs is operating at too basic of a level.

The bigger question is, why are we outsourcing our jobs and supply chains to a country (un-opposed political party) that conducts pre-meditated stealing of technology, puts up major barriers to entry like high tariffs and forced joint-ventures, and harassment of our companies?

Its a valid question and nobody was pressing on this until 2016.

Because at the end of the day, nobody cares about where their products were manufactured.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Apple is really in a tight spot here.... it’s time to bring manufacturing home... back to America

I think it’s time to take out China.. they cause more damage for the world than anyone else.
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Good, let them. And hopefully Taiwan escapes more of China's grip over time.

The real way to stop China is take out their communist govt.

 

[Metrosey]

So you value cheaper electronics over preventing human rights violations?

That’s quite the statement there. So I assume everything you buy is made outside of China using non-Chinese material? If not, then the same statement could apply. We as consumers have limited funds to spend each year which gets divided into different categories. I myself buy boots made in my own country at a large premium, the same with honey (I buy from a local seller who stocks a lot of honey from different ethical suppliers) for example. However, adding 30 percent costs to an iPhone, MacBook, iMac, etc is serious money, something most consumers won’t want to spend (which is a big reason as to why Apple hasn’t moved production). Furthermore, the entire construction process won’t be done in the US, I’d expect packaging, prototyping, testing, etc will all be done in China, while still containing the ‘Made in US’ mark, due to consumer laws allowing it.

It doesn’t have to be brought to the US though, there’s other countries with improved employee and environmental laws.

Do I want a Made in US (I’d prefer Made in EU, but that’s another debate) of course, do I want to pay an increase of 30 percent? No, and that’s what most consumers feel currently.

Lastly remember, Apple moving production to the US doesn’t solve human rights violations, it means those employees working now in China might not have a job and be vulnerable to further exploitation. Another route Apple could have taken is to ensure each worker is paid an increased amount and directly hires them rather than through a third party, but then this would cost more for Apple, which I doubt they’d consume themselves.

 

[macduke]

While many of us would like to cut off China entirely for political, personal or humanitarian ideals, the most sensible and pragmatic approach for Apple to take is do what it’s always been known to do: diversify its supply chain. They have too much reliance on China for too many key components and for assembly and I think they have coasted too long on the promise of growth into China’s vast market while underestimating or overlooking the long game that China has been playing on their dime.

If anyone wants to know what that long game entails, well just search for the various statements made by the leaders of their largest companies and their entertainment industry. They don’t exactly hide their aspirations. Interestingly enough we in the west are the ones obfuscating it all so as to make our partnerships with some of these companies more palatable to the end consumer.

And their aspirations aren’t necessarily evil or weird. They’re common, actually. The problem is that when they are in a position to assert dominance, their party is manic about controlling the narrative and incredibly particular and into minutiae about stopping dissension. Individual freedom just evaporates. They don’t even believe in the concept.

But at the same time, none of this means Apple needs to pull up stakes in China entirely. Apple and other countries doing that would have the catastrophic effect on global security that you predict. They just need to ratchet down their reliance on China. Many companies and entire nations need to do this. Make the 500 pound gorilla lose some weight. But don’t starve him into desperate aggression.

Even if China becomes our kindest ally ever, it would take just another pandemic or some other kind of emergency to really hurt Apple’s business. It would be good business strategy for Apple to be able to switch over assembly to another plant in another country. They might still be operating at reduced output, but that is better than completely frozen output.

All of our businesses may also need to reconsider Just-in-Time manufacturing logistics and consider some sort of buffered version/modification of it.

My generation of leadership has been coasting on a paradigm that no longer exists. We are more interconnected than ever before. We also have more forces for instability than ever before in my lifetime: crazier weather, geopolitical intrigue, potentially catastrophic pressures on the ecosystem from weird funguses and invasive species to name but a few. It goes on and on. Yet so many businesses run on logistic principles that was sold to my generation decades ago. So many of the developed nations run their infrastructure and economies like it’s 1999 or even 1989.

I think many industries and nations with any kind of decent leadership at the helm are taking stock of the weaknesses revealed in the supply chain and assessing how to better mitigate and reduce shortages going forward. Or maybe that’s just a futile fantasy that we have some reasonable adults running things somewhere.

Getting back to Apple, Tim Cook was THE supply chain wonderkid at one time. He needs to apply some of his perspective and experience now as the CEO and reduce Apple’s vulnerability while the various governments provoke each other for whatever agenda they’ve got going on.

China’s population is vast and it’s a lucrative market, but we can’t assume that it will always open or open without a very high price and increasingly choking strings attached. Apple needs to be able to shift out of there, out of India, out of the USA, out of any place that may become unstable and go where the operations are sustainable. They’re global guys now.

Again, this is about Apple. What I want or think as an American consumer is that I’d like to see more jobs available in the US. But we can’t forget that other countries do invest in and provide jobs to Americans. We don’t need to adopt the mantle of nationalistic fervor that can at times border on xenophobia and extremism. Nations need to be measured, mature and apply those traits when asserting themselves.

You always know exactly what to do. That's why I'm voting GrumpyMom 2020!

 

[0924487]

Wasn’t it the Huawei phones that were in the news lately for allowing the Chinese government to access any phone at any time for any reason, including ones that are in other countries and owned by non-Chinese citizens, so it can spy on whoever they wanted to?

There are no documented proofs. Just like how you can drink bleach and fix Corona. Those are all Federally administered misinformation campaigns.

 

[macdos]

So, how do you plan on taking out China? Without taking out yourself, that is?

The one creating problem after problem after problem after problem is not China, but Donald Trump.

It should be easier taking him out than China…

I think it’s time to take out China.. they cause more damage for the world than anyone else.

The real way to stop China is take out their communist govt.

 

[Jury]

While I get this stated and it would be great for it to happen, it’s not a cheap process. We’ll likely see a minimum of a 10 percent rise in prices, most likely seeing a 20-30 percent increase. That makes the iPhone a £1300 purchase, with the MacBook Pro 16 inch starting at £3000, so it would be rather costly.

Donald Trump is not fixing the country of USA.

it’s time for the next president to negotiate a better deal that can reduce the cost of 5G cellular equipment and collaborate closely to develop more high-speed rail in USA.

 

[macdos]

Huawei is still in the game here in Europe.

I tell you what the point is: it is to contain China, to make it bleed, to prevent it from overtaking the declining empire USA. China doesn't have a first class chip manufacturer, and so they need to access foreign sources, mostly TSCM. If the US can block that supply chain, they can effectively prevent Huawei, Xiaomi and others from competing with Apple and Samsung. This matters even more if the West is reindustrializing and bringing back business from China.

What’s the real point affecting supply chain when they’re not longer doing 5G tower business in the USA and most of the western world???

 

[Macbookprodude]

So, how do you plan on taking out China? Without taking out yourself, that is?

The one creating problem after problem after problem after problem is not China, but Donald Trump.

It should be easier taking him out than China…

I don’t think Trump is the issue - the issue is the liberal Communists in the Democratic Party which support the CCP. It’s all a game to force trump from office. Biden is too weak to be leader in my opinion.

 

[ThomasJL]

Huawei is still in the game here in Europe.

I tell you what the point is: it is to contain China, to make it bleed, to prevent it from overtaking the declining empire USA. China doesn't have a first class chip manufacturer, and so they need to access foreign sources, mostly TSCM. If the US can block that supply chain, they can effectively prevent Huawei, Xiaomi and others from competing with Apple and Samsung. This matters even more if the West is reindustrializing and bringing back business from China.

What companies are alternatives to Huawei in Europe?

By the way, macdos, who is that person in your profile photo? Is it someone from an Apple television commercial?

 

[Metrosey]

Donald Trump is not fixing the country of USA.

it’s time for the next president to negotiate a better deal that can reduce the cost of 5G cellular equipment and collaborate closely to develop more high-speed rail in USA.

I can’t really comment on this matter since I’m not from the US

 

[Bodygard]

One of the big problems is if Apple starts to manufacture the iPhone and other products in the US, the price will go up by a lot! American worker doesn't earn the same as a China worker remember...? So maybe Apple stays competitive in the US but will be not competitive at all in all the other markets, Asian, Europe etc because iPhone's would could double of what they cost now etc...

Trump has to reach an agreement with China on this one, better for all parties involved.

 

[macdos]

Well, all of them, mainly Ericsson, Nokia and Samsung. We try to keep markets fair and open.

Profile pic is Tibetan singer Alan.

What companies are alternatives to Huawei in Europe?

By the way, macdos, who is that person in your profile photo? Is it someone from an Apple television commercial?

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Weak or not, all he has to do is sit tight in his basement and watch the disaster unfold. Trump is Biden's best campaign worker by just opening his mouth and say something stupid everyday.

I don’t think Trump is the issue - the issue is the liberal Communists in the Democratic Party which support the CCP. It’s all a game to force trump from office. Biden is too weak to be leader in my opinion.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Looking at the bigger picture, China as a country isn't the problem, it's the CCP and their attuned - namely the conquest of control over the world, the CCP would love to be the rulers of the world, and that's what they are attempting to do, albeit forcing Chinese manufacturers to install eavesdropping components into it's routers and other telecommunication devices - okay so they are dormant, but who knows if a firmware upgrade couldn't activate these components.

So pretty much the same as the US - which wants to be rulers of the world. With its sneaking in eavesdropping devices into internet and telecommunication infrastructure and devices? Only... well, the US had kind of succeeded in becoming these rulers of the world, over the course of the 2nd half of the 20th century.

But unfortunately, it would just move manufacturing to another Communist regime like Vietnam

...who are probably less into world domination though. So that'd be a good thing?

America has its warts, like any other nation, but we are allowed too move our government and nation to the will of the people.

Yeah... "your" government. But the US is meddling in the affairs of other nations and governments as well - sometimes preventing them from "moving" their government to the will of their people.

Last, I would like to see those "bring manufacturing back" people pay several times more for Apple products. They all bitch about the Apple "tax" already

Who says "several times"?
I highly doubt the biggest cost factor of making an iPhone is labor and manufacturing. Probably only a small percentage.

I've googled it, and various sources estimate the iPhone's cost of labor between 5 USD and 30 USD.

So how much more expensive can it be in the US?

 

[Macbookprodude]

I can’t really comment on this matter since I’m not from the US

Technically, neither am I.. but I have been following the American politics and it seems they want socialism which is a bad thing, being raised myself in a Communist/Socialist nation.. their Democratic Party acts like communists as well. Trump maybe the best for them and it seems he will win re-election as Biden has dementia.

 

[LogicalApex]

So pretty much the same as the US - which wants to be rulers of the world. With its sneaking in eavesdropping devices into internet and telecommunication infrastructure and devices? Only... well, the US had kind of succeeded in becoming these rulers of the world, over the course of the 2nd half of the 20th century.


...who are probably less into world domination though. So that'd be a good thing?


Yeah... "your" government. But the US is meddling in the affairs of other nations and governments as well - sometimes preventing them from "moving" their government to the will of their people.


Who says "several times"?
I highly doubt the biggest cost factor of making an iPhone is labor and manufacturing. Probably only a small percentage.

I've googled it, and various sources estimate the iPhone's cost of labor between 5 USD and 30 USD.

So how much more expensive can it be in the US?

Everything is a spectrum of complexity. This is probably not the best place for a deeper discussion on these topics for me, but I'll try anyway and hopefully we can keep up a productive discussion.

The US was backed into a corner when it comes to its place in the world and you can realistically see the toll that has taken on both the US and the world as a whole. The US has a bit of island nation syndrome even though we don't have an island to ourselves and we share it with Canada and Mexico we are so large we tend to see it as if we're the only nation on the NA island. It is a major reason why America was last to join WWII... We prefer to focus only on ourselves (like all island nations who don't need to play nice with neighbors).

The current reality put in place after WWII was for the US to force EU nations to cooperate to prevent more world wars after WWI and WWII. This lead us down the US foreign policy path we're on now. The US sees its military as needed as a stabilizing force around the world (it largely has been since we haven't seen another WW) on a policy level and Americans see the military expenditures and life costs as wasted and pointless as we'd prefer a focus on ourselves. Additionally, for nations around the world they are able to use the US as a proxy. Since most nations allied with the US lack sufficient military strength on their own the US will be used whenever the western world needs military intervention requiring the US to bear the negative burden alone. Sort of like real-world police. Everyone calls you when a fight breaks out then they critique how you broke it up -- all from the sidelines.

The American population is re-gaining control of foreign policy and are returning the US to a more inward focus and as a result you see less desire from the US to get involved in military conflict as well as force posture to protect allied interests. If you're like most Americans and wondering why we need to subsidize the military security of our allies at our expense this is a good thing. I'm one of those Americans. But like all things the knife cuts both ways.

I'd prefer to see the scale back of US power being filled strategically with a united force comprised of our allies to ensure we move the needle toward more accountability and enforcement of western values of Human Freedom and Democracy. I feel with the focus of multiple countries we might actually make real strides here. Sadly, I fear that we're pulling back so fast that we're creating a power vacuum that will be filled by adversarial nations like Russia and China and the ramifications will be pretty ugly.

To me the goal should be increased human rights and freedoms and not less.

 

[5105973]

You always know exactly what to do. That's why I'm voting GrumpyMom 2020!

Lol, okay, but I have to run the country from my kitchen! 🤣

 

[5105973]

Technically, neither am I.. but I have been following the American politics and it seems they want socialism which is a bad thing, being raised myself in a Communist/Socialist nation.. their Democratic Party acts like communists as well. Trump maybe the best for them and it seems he will win re-election as Biden has dementia.

I think Trump may have dementia, too. His speech patterns are really badly degraded from how he spoke just a few years ago. My mom and aunt have early signs of dementia and their speech has degraded and become repetitive in a similar manner.

We have a nation full of brilliant, educated, hardworking people and somehow the presidential race narrowed down to dudes old enough to be my father.

And I am no spring chicken myself! A lot of my old classmates have grandkids

Some days I barely have the energy to get through my day. I definitely feel past my prime and would not be up for the demands of the presidency.

I don’t know how Pelosi, Biden, Trump, Sanders and all of those other old pharts stay awake through all their committees and meetings.

Maybe they don’t? 😨

That might explain a lot...

Or maybe they have access to some seriously amazing quality coffee beans that are only processed after first passing through the digestive system of unicorns, which perhaps really do exist and are what’s really hidden at Roswell. 🤪

Anyway, I’m politically a moderate. I would vote for whoever has the most common sense, best platform, and best qualifications for the job, regardless of what party they’re in. I’ve got serious reservations about my country’s choices.

I once read an article, I can’t remember where, that really good, honest, ethical, intelligent people do attempt to make a go of it in politics. They tend to wash out at the state capital level, because the system is so foul and they find they have to compromise all of their standards and ethics and play nasty games to get anywhere, or even to stay afloat. And it’s not even out and out corruption we are talking about. Our laws are pretty good at keeping that in check. It’s just a lot of almost high school level mean guy and mean girl crap. This may explain why a lot of our leaders aren’t particularly admirable people. The system favors pathology.

 

[unplugme71]

Every single time this topic comes up, there's some armchair president/CEO/quarterback that proclaims that US-manufacturing will solve Apple and America's woes.

Just *assembling* the iPhone is a menial task which will not provide good jobs. Relatively few laborers here in America put up with a high-quality, easy manufacturing jobs like putting automobiles together. Make that a precision (1/100ths of an inch), repetitive task? Yeah. No. Not when you can make more driving Uber, waiting tables, or working retail.

The entire smartphone supply chain from battery manufacturers, to display manufacturers, to the producers of the raw aluminum and steel are all located in Shenzhen, or across Asia (SK in the case of Samsung's AMOLED displays used in the Pro phones). Who, exactly, benefits from Apple shipping raw materials and components to have some American screw them together? Nobody.

Our economy moved away from manufacturing from the 1950s-present because it's low value, low skill work.

Yet plenty in the US would kill to have a job. So why not have it here?

Not every skilled job can be filled.

 

[russell_314]

Technically, neither am I.. but I have been following the American politics and it seems they want socialism which is a bad thing, being raised myself in a Communist/Socialist nation.. their Democratic Party acts like communists as well. Trump maybe the best for them and it seems he will win re-election as Biden has dementia.

I’d have to agree with this. I don’t support cutting off trade with China because I think trade is always a good thing but it needs to be balanced. I like trump but I don’t want him to win because Biden is senile. I think it’s sad the way they are using Biden. I really hope the Democrat party pulls something out of a hat and comes up with a viable candidate. I want an election with two candidates.

 

[Osamede]

That misses the point I think. To argue that America isn't yet perfect so there is no room to criticize authoritarian regimes like China is a bit misguided IMHO.

America has its warts, like any other nation, but we are allowed too move our government and nation to the will of the people. China not so much...

This century will be a tussle between authoritarian regimes and democracies and technology gives authoritarian regimes a massive leg up. Hopefully we can weather this century properly.

Additionally, the US is a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy. Normally people don't really care to figure out the difference, but it matters. In the US Political System the minority interests is protected which makes governing a lot harder.

Google: Gilens and Page Princeton University. You will find hard evidence that US regime responds purely to the desires of the rich. What the US commoners think had utterly zero effect on what govt chooses to do.

So Apple is not going to be fooled by the kind of propaganda that little folks fall for.

 

[russell_314]

Google: Gilens and Page Princeton University. You will find hard evidence that US regime responds purely to the desires of the rich. What the US commoners think had utterly zero effect on what govt chooses to do.

What commoners think had utterly zero effect on what govt chooses to do

Fixed it for you. I don't suspect any country listens to regular people who don't have any special influence.