Chinese Court Overturns iPhone 6 Patent Ruling in Apple's Favor

[tzm41]

I like how people jump to the conclusion that this is happening because of Tim's bribery, despite showing no evidence whatsoever. Their conclusion is based on whatever general "impression" they have about how things work outside of their realm of knowledge.

Guess this is how the vaccination causes autism argument got its momentum. We have a far way to go in basic logic and science methodology education.

 

[macfacts]

From the summary, it was a court case about the exterior design (design patent). In my eyes, it looks pretty similar.

I dont get why it was overturned on appeal.

The Beijing court ruled that the features of the iPhone 6 "completely change[d] the effect of the entire product" and made both phones "easily distinguishable in the eyes of consumers".
​

What does it matter if the software is different? That doesn't affect the exterior design.

 

[5105973]

I like how people jump to the conclusion that this is happening because of Tim's bribery, despite showing no evidence whatsoever. Their conclusion is based on whatever general "impression" they have about how things work outside of their realm of knowledge.

Guess this is how the vaccination causes autism argument got its momentum. We have a far way to go in basic logic and science methodology education.

I don't believe it's bribery at all. It's business. Tim has shown the requisite commitment to China. A very firm strong commitment expressed in his words, his time, and Apple's massive investment in a Chinese business (Didi, last year) and in making a permanent presence in China to employ locals in jobs other than factory labor. That's going to hold some weight than if Apple is just seen as an opportunistic foreign business there to sell and not give anything back. It's probably coincidental that Tim made his intentions known just earlier in the week, but fortuitous nonetheless.

 

[kdarling]

Every culture / country has ways to grease things. In the Far East, it's sometimes cash up front. In the West these days, it's often done through promises of cushy jobs after government service.

In this case, the government bribery was done in plain sight.

Just last week, Apple announced plans to spend $500 million on R&D centers in China.

As Tech Crunch noted at the the time, "It’s a great way to convince the Chinese government that you deserve favors."

 

[Ynot]

???????????

well using a Water Proof iPhone 7 and iDJ on his Series 2 Ceramic Watch Edition Apple Watch.

 

[I7guy]

Every culture / country has ways to grease things. In the Far East, it's sometimes cash up front. In the West these days, it's often done through promises of cushy jobs after government service.

In this case, the government bribery was done in plain sight.

Just last week, Apple announced plans to spend $500 million on R&D centers in China.

As Tech Crunch noted at the the time, "It’s a great way to convince the Chinese government that you deserve favors."

Way different than what is being alleged that Tim snuck an envelope stuffed with cash under the table.

Announcing plans to spend money on manufacturing, production and r and d works exactly the same way here in the USA.
[doublepost=1490483711][/doublepost]

From the summary, it was a court case about the exterior design (design patent). In my eyes, it looks pretty similar.

I dont get why it was overturned on appeal.

The Beijing court ruled that the features of the iPhone 6 "completely change[d] the effect of the entire product" and made both phones "easily distinguishable in the eyes of consumers".
​

What does it matter if the software is different? That doesn't affect the exterior design.

You would have to ask the court.

 

[alphaod]

seems to fit nicely with the other news around China and apple this week . See you can teach an old dog new tricks if they really want the $$$
[doublepost=1490458175][/doublepost]

Seriously ?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ibery-is-often-an-unspoken-rule-in-china/amp/

Just do a little research. Same goes for India, there is no corruption or bribes....

Kind of the same in the rest of the world. In our "democratic" countries, it's got a different name—campaign donations.

 

[Jsameds]

Allegations of scandal and bribery but not a shread of evidence to support it.

Stay classy, MR.

 

[Franshans]

you are spot on, this case, apple being found guilty, while being able to continue to sell the iPhone 6, was all about wheels of justice cause that is how things happen in China .

Forget reality distortion cause apple is involved , research how business is done in china and comback to us and explain how there is no bribes or corruption and you have a valid point

Tim and apple know the game and are playing it, and have been for years .

Why don't you just rely to the article and come up with some evidence.
Your general assumptions are pointless.
Yes, bribes are probably common in China but so they are in many western societies, often more subtle but with the same consequences.
Still we should have evidence before we start pointing fingers and suspecting people of breaking the law.

 

[Radon87000]

Way different than what is being alleged that Tim snuck an envelope stuffed with cash under the table.

Announcing plans to spend money on manufacturing, production and r and d works exactly the same way here in the USA.
[doublepost=1490483711][/doublepost]
You would have to ask the court.

It's plainly obvious bribery is involved. You won't find proof as such deals happen under the table (again common sense).

And bribery is much more in the east than the west

 

[I7guy]

It's plainly obvious bribery is involved. You won't find proof as such deals happen under the table (again common sense).

And bribery is much more in the east than the west

Be that as it may, the outcome was in favor of Apple, which is what counts.

Similar to the iPad being released with one gig ram.

 

[kdarling]

Way different than what is being alleged that Tim snuck an envelope stuffed with cash under the table.

Announcing plans to spend money on manufacturing, production and r and d works exactly the same way here in the USA.

Exactly. I doubt seriously that any money changed hands directly under the table between Apple and Chinese officials.

Of course, from the Chinese officials' standpoint, it works out the same for them anyway. They'll get kickbacks and bribes from the contractors building those half billion dollar R&D centers, and from the people running them. But Apple itself won't be directly involved in that.

 

[I7guy]

Exactly. I doubt seriously that any money changed hands directly under the table between Apple and Chinese leaders.

Of course, from the Chinese leaders' standpoint, it works out the same for them anyway. They'll get kickbacks and under the table bribes from the contractors building those half billion dollar R&D centers, and from the people running them. But Apple itself won't be directly involved in that.

Exactly, the same stuff that happens here as well.

 

[MH01]

Why don't you just rely to the article and come up with some evidence.
Your general assumptions are pointless.
Yes, bribes are probably common in China but so they are in many western societies, often more subtle but with the same consequences.
Still we should have evidence before we start pointing fingers and suspecting people of breaking the law.

Did you read the article ? I suggest you do, apple lost no sales ..... think that Through.

And bribes in east and west are a completely different thing. Yet again do your own research. When In Rome do as the Romans do. Do you really think apple is making such huge investments in China cause they see business opportunities ? Why do you thing "bribes" are obvious exchange of money in an envelope. Apple did not bribe any judges in this case, but people know people ... there is an art form , and not this silly notion people have here of how we bribe in the west.

Feel free to do you own research, and don't compare to the west.

 

[5105973]

Every culture / country has ways to grease things. In the Far East, it's sometimes cash up front. In the West these days, it's often done through promises of cushy jobs after government service.

In this case, the government bribery was done in plain sight.

Just last week, Apple announced plans to spend $500 million on R&D centers in China.

As Tech Crunch noted at the the time, "It’s a great way to convince the Chinese government that you deserve favors."

I think the distinction is the connotation the word "bribery" has with illegality. Even in very corrupt countries, bribery as @I7guy mentions is usually at least claimed to be illegal and therefore done under the table.

I can't say I'm a fan of what Tim did, but it is the price of doing business there beyond having stuff made at Foxconn, and it's a legitimate investment in their economy, assuming those R&D centers actually end up employing locals in a meaningful way. If they end up being empty offices, well, , that stinks for their people and just stinks, period. I'm really not a fan of his little speech about globalization. He did at least acknowledge it's done some harm to some people.

Personally I would not even try doing business there if I were a CEO promoting my company as having all these grandiose social justice ideals. But then the board of directors would boot my butt within a few months. Which is why I'm a housewife and not a CEO.

I could not do Tim's job, ever. I wouldn't last a week. I'd release a Mac Pro, in the shape of a ball and call it the Apple Dumpling. That would be the extent of my contribution. Oh and I'd tell Jony Ive to make Eddy Cue thinner. And of course I'd try to circumnavigate the new donut building on roller skates, if at all possible. Thus would end my very short career as CEO of Apple.

 

[Radon87000]

Be that as it may, the outcome was in favor of Apple, which is what counts.

Thank you for telling me that. I never knew bribery got things done

Similar to the iPad being released with one gig ram.

Do you have proof its got 2 gigs of RAM? Because the display is now of the low end ones so its just a guess the RAM has been downgraded

 

[UKPoliticsGuy]

Of course you get justice when the Standing Committee of the Central Political Bureau of the Communist Party of China is judge, jury and executioner!

 

[apolloa]

Soooo much stupidity and hypocrisy with this story and when it comes to Apple and patents in general.. so the regulators did not follow the ban process. Fair enough, but, if, as they claim no patent was breached, just why has Apple tried to twice now get the patents stripped from Bali then huh?

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...7a4d&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

Yeah suspicious, I think so.. Apple does not look clean in the slightest here, then again this being China they have no doubt bribed everyone to get there way.

 

[I7guy]

Thank you for telling me that. I never knew bribery got things done

Bribery does get stuff done, but you have no proof that apple engaged in it.

Do you have proof its got 2 gigs of RAM? Because the display is now of the low end ones so its just a guess the RAM has been downgraded

Ah, I was waiting for your proof of 1 gig of ram.
[doublepost=1490534979][/doublepost]

Soooo much stupidity and hypocrisy with this story and when it comes to Apple and patents in general.. so the regulators did not follow the ban process. Fair enough, but, if, as they claim no patent was breached, just why has Apple tried to twice now get the patents stripped from Bali then huh?

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...7a4d&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

Yeah suspicious, I think so.. Apple does not look clean in the slightest here, then again this being China they have no doubt bribed everyone to get there way.

No, there is no hint of wrongdoing that would be prosecuted in the US. Other than the hyperbole of "apple doesn't look clean", there is no evidence to say they engaged in behavior illegal in the US.

 

[gnasher729]

Soooo much stupidity and hypocrisy with this story and when it comes to Apple and patents in general.. so the regulators did not follow the ban process. Fair enough, but, if, as they claim no patent was breached, just why has Apple tried to twice now get the patents stripped from Bali then huh?

In _any_ case like that a company will take all possible arguments, in case one fails. Just because you're right doesn't mean you win. So obviously when you are accused of infringing any patent, you will claim simultaneously that you didn't infringe, that you had a license, that the patent is invalid, that you can use the patent without a license, and probably some more things that only a lawyer would think of.

 

[I7guy]

I think the distinction is the connotation the word "bribery" has with illegality. Even in very corrupt countries, bribery as @I7guy mentions is usually at least claimed to be illegal and therefore done under the table.

I can't say I'm a fan of what Tim did, but it is the price of doing business there beyond having stuff made at Foxconn, and it's a legitimate investment in their economy, assuming those R&D centers actually end up employing locals in a meaningful way. If they end up being empty offices, well, , that stinks for their people and just stinks, period. I'm really not a fan of his little speech about globalization. He did at least acknowledge it's done some harm to some people.

Personally I would not even try doing business there if I were a CEO promoting my company as having all these grandiose social justice ideals. But then the board of directors would boot my butt within a few months. Which is why I'm a housewife and not a CEO.

I could not do Tim's job, ever. I wouldn't last a week. I'd release a Mac Pro, in the shape of a ball and call it the Apple Dumpling. That would be the extent of my contribution. Oh and I'd tell Jony Ive to make Eddy Cue thinner. And of course I'd try to circumnavigate the new donut building on roller skates, if at all possible. Thus would end my very short career as CEO of Apple.

Hahaha, Apple Dumpling, I at that one.

Apple is not doing anything different than any other company outsourcing manufacturing in China. What is the point of manufacturer for some the the products for the US biggest retailers such as walmart or target. Globalization hurts the US economy and the blame for that is squarely on the government (but that's for another thread) and that is not Apples fault.

AS for the r&d investment, apple wasn't the first, nor will they be the last.

 

[newyorkone]

It's plainly obvious bribery is involved. You won't find proof as such deals happen under the table (again common sense).

And bribery is much more in the east than the west

Lol. It's the same. Here, we just call it lobbying and campaign contributions...

 

[Radon87000]

Bribery does get stuff done, but you have no proof that apple engaged in it.

I am not denying this happens in every part of the world but for Apple it's easy to do

Ah, I was waiting for your proof of 1 gig of ram.

I said it will have 1GB RAM imo.
[doublepost=1490534979][/doublepost]

No, there is no hint of wrongdoing that would be prosecuted in the US. Other than the hyperbole of "apple doesn't look clean", there is no evidence to say they engaged in behavior illegal in the US.

For it to be illegal there needs to be a possibility of being discovered which doesn't happen in under the table deals.This will be buried deep. Although one Apple executive did narrowly escape jail time in Ireland so they have had close shaves before.

And this isn't really surprising that corporations do it all the time. Look at Samsung for instance. What makes you think Apple is any different?

 

[Kabeyun]

I like how people jump to the conclusion that this is happening because of Tim's bribery, despite showing no evidence whatsoever. Their conclusion is based on whatever general "impression" they have about how things work outside of their realm of knowledge.

Guess this is how the vaccination causes autism argument got its momentum. We have a far way to go in basic logic and science methodology education.

Internet forums are, by and large, arenas in which the uninformed spout their opinions under the protective shroud of anonymity. These opinions tie in to just enough reality to sound plausible, especially to those ready to believe the gut check over healthy skepticism and research of primary sources, the latter of which is always more work and therefore unappealing. Skepticism driven by inquiry is almost the opposite of skepticism driven by preexisting opinion, although they can seem the same.

Add to this the fact that the human brain is, by design, a pattern establishment engine. It's not only how we see animals in the clouds but also how we get stories about how Jesus showed up in the wood-grain paneling of a trailer park home.

Add to that the fact that it can seem intelligent simply to disbelieve authority just because some truly original thinkers of history have also done so. (Believing vaccinations actually cause autism isn't the same as believing the Earth doesn't actually orbit the sun, because Galileo went and used the scientific method, not self-selected opinions aligned with his own, to prove he was right.) Formal education has become a source of scorn rather than intelligence. The dangerous autism vaccination crowd believed scientific authority just enough to swallow the original article (who can resist a great conspiracy story?) but then scorned that same authority once the entire medical and scientific community realized the original article was a fraud, the journal retracted the article, and the physician investigator lost his license and was banned from the medical community; as though the medical community (my colleagues) have something to gain by sneakily giving children autism; as though jenny McCarthy knows more about the science than the CDC, the NIH, the AAP, the APA, the ISDA, and the WHO.

I give you the IIA, the Internet Idiots of America!

 

[I7guy]

Do you know how business is done in China? I am not denying this happens in every part of the world but for Apple it's easy to do

But that doesn't mean they engaged in bribery. All it means is that you asked the question how is business done in china, and it doesn't follow Apple engaged in illegal behavior.

I said it will have 1GB RAM imo.

same here 2 gig imo.

For it to be illegal there needs to be a possibility of being discovered which doesn't happen in under the table deals.

Right, so unless you can prove it, you can't say they did it. One does not follow the other.