Chris Lattner Says Opportunity to Work on Tesla's Ambitious Self-Driving Efforts Was 'Irresistible'

[truthertech]

MacRumors getting the scoop! Nice.

I think one of two things happened here: Either Apple shelved their autonomous driving plans alongside the car plans and Lattner decided there was no more reason to stick around at Apple, or he already applied to be in a leadership role in that division and was refused—or was lowballed on salary and so he went to Tesla. If I had my pick right now where to start off my career, I'd pick Tesla over Apple. I don't even own anything Tesla, but I hope to one day (a car and their solar roof). They're doing much more exciting things that actually have a positive impact on the environment. Technology and nature are two of my biggest passions.

As for autonomous cars themselves—I have really mixed emotions. A lot of driving is boring and repetitive. I'd love to sit back and relax on the boring drive to see family across the state, or the drive home. And I also like the safety benefit that it brings But sometimes I like to get away and just drive wherever the wind takes me. Take random turns, discover something new. Maybe go down a light off-road trail in my Outback because it's fun. Or wind through the mountains on a road trip. I'm just worried about manual driving becoming illegal. Especially since I think autonomous cars will probably become commonplace a decade from now when I'm in my 40s and have the disposable income to get those fancy cars I've always wanted.

I think one of the biggest challenges for autonomous driving will be adverse weather conditions. We had some freezing rain in late December that surprised everyone. It glazed everything really fast. A lot of people got stuck and couldn't make it home. I have an Outback with winter tires and barely made it home. I called upon my years of experience as I put the Outback into manual and teased my way home. I had the music off and was listening to the wheels, paying attention to the physics going on to know if my car was slightly drifting or loosing grip so I could gear down. My street is on a little bit of a slope, so to get into my driveway I had to rub my right wheel into the edge of the curb to create enough friction to slow down. I then kicked away from the curb, then turned right back in on the corner of the curb on the edge of my driveway and used that like a pivot to rotate the back of my Outback so that it was aligned with the driveway. Gear down and go up the right side of the driveway and as I did it slid into the left side of the driveway and into the slot on the left inside my garage door perfectly. When a machine can pull that off I'll be impressed! One of the most harrowing experiences of my life trying to avoid so many near collisions on the way home.

So, you're speculating on why he left Apple, when he spelled them out for you and everyone? He made it clear that it had nothing to do with your guesses, and it's not a zero sum game where only one of these companies can be an exciting rewarding place to work. Or only one can be committed to the environment, obviously both are leaders in environmental responsibility.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Lattner is a brilliant guy, no question, but it seems a bit weird to put a compiler guy in charge of your autopilot program... It seems like, other than raw intellect, there's not much overlap.

I disagree, the Tesla hardware is in place, it's all about software now.
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Precursor to an Apple takeover of Tesla? Gotta do something with all that cash.

Oh JHC no!

 

[Analog Kid]

It's not weird at all. Tesla's Autopilot system is controlled via software. They're using NVIDIA's DRIVE PX 2 platform and software stack. It's all artificial intelligence through deep neural network learning. Very compelling indeed for a computer guy like Chris.

I disagree, the Tesla hardware is in place, it's all about software now.

I'm pretty sure Lattner was hired for his management skill rather than his technical prowess in this area. It's rare to find a top notch intellect like his that's also capable of managing a large scale project.

That said, these arguments of "it's all software" are drastically over simplifying the technology here. It's a bit like saying you'll have your podiatrist remove your brain tumor because he's a doctor.

Deep learning, which is what Nvidia has been pushing on their GPU architectures, is barely even software-- machine learning is built on software but the art and science are in the architecture, not the implementation. Getting more from less is an optimization problem that could involve a better toolset, but I would be surprised and dismayed if Tesla were writing the compiler for the PX platform. First, it's a waste of their time (that's what vendors are for), and second I would hope they'd use standard tools that can be analyzed for stability in such a safety critical application.

I've no doubt that Lattner finds it compelling, but it's unusual to pull a fish out of water like this and put them in charge of your bicycle division. When I stop focusing on Swift and Xcode a technical software projects though, and think about what it takes to manage a community like he has, then it all makes more sense. He's a VP, he won't be code reviewing checkins or tweaking neural activation functions.

 

[5105973]

Yes there are obstacles I just no longer understand why on a tech site people give all the reasons things can't be done rather than unleash their imaginations about how it could work. @GrumpyMom

I didn't say it couldn't be done. I just said other auto makers could be doing it, too so don't count them out yet. Meanwhile take a look at what existing trade offs are as we head into the future.

Also I was just saying the future isn't quite here for all of us yet. These cars may be around and doing great in some environments but the USA is a big country with a lot of diverse driving conditions.

I'd love to see how these autonomous electric vehicles handle the winter and fall conditions we have on tree lined hilly country roads that wind through some woods. Sometimes it's so narrow there isn't room for two cars so you and the driver coming at you have to decide who is pulling to the side into a ditch and who gets to go on. Fortunately out in the country most people are neighborly about that sort of thing. And you all ain't seen nothing until you've driven through deer season.

It's good to get zero emissions but we still have to deal with getting electricity somehow and that's still a complicated business with environmental impacts, too. Just different ones.

Again I'm not saying no, I'm just saying get it all out on the table.

 

[Val-kyrie]

I wonder if Lattner was bored at Apple. WCCFTECH has an article discussing the change in corporate culture at Apple. In the article, former Apple engineer Bob Burroughs claims Tim Cook has turned Apple "into a boring operations company.”

 

[5105973]

Anybody think it's a possibility that Apple will at some point in the not too distant future acquire Tesla and let Elon do his visionary thing for them...I mean the whole shebang, not just the cars? It might be a nice deal. Tesla gets all the financial resources they could want and Elon reinvigorates the innovation. Tim could stay on and do what he used to do, just on a larger scale now that Apple has grown into so many countries.

 

[Bacillus]

The AppleCar project stems from self-overestimation and arrogance that success in the IT-industry can easily be replicated in the car-industry (as well as content industry). Esla proved that the car-industry has more IT

Again, I am an Tesla enthusiast, but some friendly advice as to where to place your future. Apple has almost a quarter trillion dollars in the bank and is the most profitable company in the world. Tesla, not so much, they have had only two profitable quarters in their history, have billions in cumulative losses and with the introduction of the Chevy Bolt and other competitors coming on line, their survival is still very much a question mark. Indeed, they been largely surviving on the trading of mpg credits.

Apple is researching and developing many more technologies than Tesla ever will, simply because Tesla is a much smaller and more narrowly focused company. That doesn't mean Tesla isn't doing some great things with electric vehicles, etc. It may surprise you though, that Tesla's hope isn't with some exotic new technology they developed, but rather whether they can develop the production capability with their vehicles and batteries to bring the costs down. For example, their car batteries "breakthrough" is not some new battery chemistry, etc., but combining a large number of what is, in essence, "dated" laptop batteries.

With the new Chevy Bolt being cheaper and having greater range, Tesla may be running out of time as their hopes have always hinged on getting an affordable Model 3 which we still don't have a meaningful production date. The Bolt went on sale in December, has gotten a lot of positive reviews and is scheduled to be on sale in all 50 states by July. Yes, the Bolt doesn't yet have all the autonomous driving capabilities of the current Tesla's for sale, but it is over $30K less than any current Tesla and with greater range and similar performance, it is but one example of the ongoing threats to Tesla's future. Here's a good write up of a comparison between the Bolt and the lowest Tesla currently for sale.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...7-chevrolet-bolt-ev-vs-2016-tesla-model-s-60/
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Well, I'll forward your post to Apple HQ so they know that despite producing products and services that hundreds of millions of people purchased last year alone, to not forget that there are some that can't wait to buy even more and want them to hurry out of development new stuff to buy. I have to warn you though, that Apple is different than most companies and usually waits until they think a product is ready to sell even if people are going crazy waiting, such as with their latest hit, the Airpods.

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Apple is researching and developing many more technologies than Tesla ever will, simply because Tesla is a much smaller and more narrowly focused company. That doesn't mean Tesla isn't doing some great things with electric vehicles, etc. It may surprise you though, that Tesla's hope isn't with some exotic new technology they developed, but rather whether they can

Given the size and scope of their R&D, Apple would have to pop out 10/20 new models/yr to be comparable. Given the fact there is more replicative tech at Apple, even more.
They have 20k patents in IT that remain unused where Apple rather defends than expand its IT territory. Faster than Apple thought they could "conquer" automotive, Tesla acquired IT to support itself in a more souvereign manner.
Apple just now realizes they only have consumer tech on board. When it comes to mission critical systems - they are nowhere. Maybe QNX that they acquired, whereas that's pretty much a loose end at the Cupertino stable where it remains isolated.
The automotive industry laughs at Siri, iOS, and supports CarPlay reluctantly (as a second choice to their brand infotainmt sys). It doesn't need or want Apple. It will always prevent Apple (or Google) to interfere with their customer UI.

 

[ackmondual]

When someone uses the word "everyone", they are likely making a sweeping generalization that is incorrect.

It's the "internet everyone", which ironically enough doesn't mean everyone. Still hella confusing though.

 

[albebaubles]

Yep. I love driving, always have. But there are two times when it would be fantastic to let the car do all the work - one is long distance highway driving and the other is congested urban driving.

Quite simply, AP would allow me to be in the road more.

 

[macduke]

So, your speculating on why he left Apple, when he spelled them out for you and everyone? He made it clear that it had nothing to do with your guesses, and it's not a zero sum game where only one of these companies can be an exciting rewarding place to work. Or only one can be committed to the environment, obviously both are leaders in environmental responsibility.

You must not have worked in the U.S. at all or for very long, or read about or know someone who works at this level. First of all, you have to sign all these agreements saying you can't disclose anything negative. Of course he's going to frame things this way, but reality comes down to this: money or happiness or some combination of both. Like I said, either he was turned down to have a leadership role in Apple's program, they canceled the program, or he wanted to do something somewhere that is actually innovating and/or make more money while doing so. In the end it always comes down to some combination of money and happiness.

 

[smacrumon]

So what's the problem? I already have several patents.

Likewise. The point is thumbs up to Tesla who's changed the landscape of the motor industry and thumbs down to those manufacturers who aren't on board.

 

[pankajdoharey]

Almost every tech company including Graphics companies like Nvidia are running all over Apple, even Nvidia is far ahead in Automated car projects than Apple. Apple has become this slow company unable to release products on time, their perfection complex pushes them out of the market.
And now even their lead people are leaving because there are more "Interesting" projects out there in other companies which make it "Irresistible"? What is happening, Timmy ?.
Although it is too early to judge that Apple is doomed, but it surely is moving in that direction. Especially since they released the brick called Mac Book Pro. You can't use a brick like that because it underperforms and you can't throw it away because it costs you $4300. You are essentially screwed.

 

[truthertech]

You must not have worked in the U.S. at all or for very long, or read about or know someone who works at this level. First of all, you have to sign all these agreements saying you can't disclose anything negative. Of course he's going to frame things this way, but reality comes down to this: money or happiness or some combination of both. Like I said, either he was turned down to have a leadership role in Apple's program, they canceled the program, or he wanted to do something somewhere that is actually innovating and/or make more money while doing so. In the end it always comes down to some combination of money and happiness.

Got it. The clear, unequivocal explanations Chris gave to Macrumors are actually elaborate lies he made up, and you are able to divine the truth that he is so obviously denying. That was easy.

 

[batchtaster]

Ok, can we stop making a big case of this?

No, apparently not. Because although the guy explained his decision quite clearly that it was a rather mundane, boring, melodrama-free one, almost every post in this thread is some armchair analyst who feels compelled to beat it up into a clear indictment of Apple and/or Cook and/or the magical Car project that has never been confirmed that people love to write information-free articles about for pure clickbait. (These same people will criticize MR for doing the same thing, beating up a non-story into some kind of scandal.)
Because apparently people can't make career choices in their lives without hidden conspiracies and secret agendas.

 

[dantastic]

He seems like a clever guy. Considering Xcode has been getting worse with every release lately he might just be frustrated his baby is being turned to **** by external forces. Happens all to often, the people in the know are overruled higher up the food chain.
Writing this as I'm waiting for Xcode to recover from yet another hang-crash. Crashing a handful times daily these days...

 

[MrNomNoms]

I'm not going to argue about the car, because it's all been unsubstantiated pretty much. But it does beg the question: what are the vast Apple resources and staff allocated to in the past few years? They haven't exactly wowed the tech world or consumers with a new product category, release or update. Is it the campus? The Stores? Overall maintenance? If I was an investor I'd certainly want to know.

As a customer I would be OK to pony up the 'Apple tax' knowing that the money is funneled into R&D for decent future defining products, but it isn't. iCloud is rather weak, Maps still sucks, iOS and OS X have lost their lustre and attention to detail, Apple Pay is not yet rolled out in several countries, the Watch is still *getting there* and so is the iPad, iPhone 7 = iPhone 6SS, the Mac line is languishing (with the latest MBP causing much controversy), routers and standalone displays are out, pro apps like Aperture died on the vine without a word from Cupertino, and finally Microsoft and Samsung are now on par with Apple in hype, satisfaction and reliability (sans the Note 7 bomb). So all my money would be actually doing is padding Apple's $220b war chest, so Cook can buy Chinese ride share companies. Not sure I'm up for that.

I wish it were the case that they were working on some magical and awesome innovative gizmo or software but I can't help but get the feeling that the money is used to buy capacity and invest into new capacity rather than it being used to come up with new ideas or god forbid making sure exiting product lines are actually taken care of. I'm going to see what happens in WWDC but I'm not all that hopeful about the future given that we've got Apple caring more about the iPad wanker brigade than taking care of the customer base and realising that their growth has slowed because of their failure to actually do something with macOS besides having it life support combined with the mediocre upgrades and price hikes.

 

[ppdix]

Impressive! I have adaptive cruise control with stop and go on my 2015 BMW 435 and it works pretty well but makes a lot of mistakes...
This system is a lot more advanced of course but it failed to recognize the little white dog on the side of the road...

 

[truthertech]

No, apparently not. Because although the guy explained his decision quite clearly that it was a rather mundane, boring, melodrama-free one, almost every post in this thread is some armchair analyst who feels compelled to beat it up into a clear indictment of Apple and/or Cook and/or the magical Car project that has never been confirmed that people love to write information-free articles about for pure clickbait. (These same people will criticize MR for doing the same thing, beating up a non-story into some kind of scandal.)
Because apparently people can't make career choices in their lives without hidden conspiracies and secret agendas.

And, if I might summarize, "trolls gonna troll."

 

[huckg]

Guys, these types of press releases = All diplomacy, no truth.

The only thing we can say with any remote certainty is he willingly left Apple for another company. The reasons for this can be anything but they generally need to be significant enough to warrant leaving a company after so many years.

 

[toph2toast]

You'd have to be rather gullible or misleading to think burning oil was cleaner than not burning oil and sourcing energy from solar and wind. Hybrid is defunct technology, think early 2000s, we've moved far ahead, say hello to 2017!

Tesla is designed as a zero emission clean driving car, while GM, BMW, Mercedes, Ford etc burn oil like its going out of fashion, polluting the world. Horse drawn carriage is cleaner than GM, BMW, Mercedes, Ford metal junk. (ps Hi Chevron, nice to see you here again on the forums!)

Viva Apple, viva Tesla, viva clean energy, viva simplicity!

Just curious, when you plug in a tesla, how do you know if the source energy is from solar or wind? While the car may be zero emission, charging the battery certainly may not be. Solar and Wind is a very small portion of the energy generation in the US. Coal, Nuclear and Gas are still the workhorses.

 

[C DM]

Almost every tech company including Graphics companies like Nvidia are running all over Apple, even Nvidia is far ahead in Automated car projects than Apple. Apple has become this slow company unable to release products on time, their perfection complex pushes them out of the market.
And now even their lead people are leaving because there are more "Interesting" projects out there in other companies which make it "Irresistible"? What is happening, Timmy ?.
Although it is too early to judge that Apple is doomed, but it surely is moving in that direction. Especially since they released the brick called Mac Book Pro. You can't use a brick like that because it underperforms and you can't throw it away because it costs you $4300. You are essentially screwed.

Clearly Apple is doomed because of a product that they might have very well never really been working on and don't plan to work to begin with. That Apple Gum that all these other gum makers have beaten Apple to clearly spells out that Apple is doomed since they are just not coming through with that gum they were "supposed" to.

 

[mi7chy]

Chris Lattner is obviously very smart and has decided to join a visionary, Elon Musk, to change the world with Tesla/SpaceX instead of following a false deity, Tim Cook, obsessed with building the great last monument, the spaceship building, into the graveyard. Historically, every collapse of great civilizations like Maya, Inca, ancient Egypt, etc. is preceded by the need to build a great last monument. True gods, on the other hand, can change the world from their humble abode, garage, cubicle, etc.

Steve Job's garage

Elon Musk's cubicle

 

[jmgregory1]

Chris Lattner is obviously very smart and has decided to join a visionary, Elon Musk, to change the world with Tesla/SpaceX instead of following a false deity, Tim Cook, obsessed with building the great last monument, the spaceship building, into the graveyard. Historically, every collapse of great civilizations like Maya, Inca, ancient Egypt, etc. is preceded by the need to build a great last monument. True gods, on the other hand, can change the world from their humble abode, garage, cubicle, etc.

I agree. I would bet that working at Tesla is more exciting than Apple, because it is still being run by a visionary leader. I'm not saying that the excitement would be all good - in fact I'm sure there are far more negatives, but sometimes people thrive in situations like this.

I worked for a company where the founder and leader, for all her faults, offered a far more dynamic workplace than what it became after she sold and left the company. At that point, all the positives and excitement the founder had fostered in employees was gone and it was no longer a fun place to work. Of course the company then grew leaps and bounds having a new leader that focused exclusively on growth (almost unlimited funding helped too), but the lack of the visionary leader has caught up with them as the company is no longer growing and appears to be floundering.

 

[C DM]

Chris Lattner is obviously very smart and has decided to join a visionary, Elon Musk, to change the world with Tesla/SpaceX instead of following a false deity, Tim Cook, obsessed with building the great last monument, the spaceship building, into the graveyard. Historically, every collapse of great civilizations like Maya, Inca, ancient Egypt, etc. is preceded by the need to build a great last monument. True gods, on the other hand, can change the world from their humble abode, garage, cubicle, etc.

Steve Job's garage

Elon Musk's cubicle

So now it's not just Apple is doomed, but basically the whole civilization is doomed...

 

[macduke]

Are you really that gullible? I'm sure you also believe Tim Cook word for word when he says that Apple products are, in fact, magic and not just advanced technology.

There's a difference between saying someone is straight up lying vs. honoring an NDA. Apple is notorious for over the top NDAs. Anyone who leaves Apple who is higher up in the company has never said anything bad about the company within several years of leaving. That speaks volumes. Forstall was practically forced out the door and you never hear a peep. Same with John Browett. But sure, be gullible and believe everything the millionaires and corporate shills tell you and take it 100% at face value. Just search Google for the stories over the years that creep up from sources talking about how things really go down inside Apple. It never matches the narrative that they feed you! And Apple isn't unique. This happens at a lot of companies. It's all about PR spin and having everyone come out looking good. In reality, if everyone was super happy then there wouldn't be these huge names leaving. Just sit and think about it logically.