Comparing the 13-Inch MacBook Pro to the MacBook Air and iPad Pro

[Mainsail]

These kinds of comparisons in my view are missing the point and youtuber should get their perspectives checked.

Take for instance the reviewers case. I bet that all his editing is done on that Desktop behind. Given this why would he buy another computer that does precisely the same thing that not only offer a worst experience on the desk but also it’s far slower? Its all hypothetical!

People are so psyched about laptops that forget that an $800 Desktop Computer ouperforms by 3.5 to 1 against a $3200 laptop both at peak loads and sutanable loads (keep that high performance for much longer)... And its more resilient to component aging ....

Now take this proper way of accounting ...

$1340 for the iPad Pro and Magic Keyboard (if you will)
$800 for a Desktop PC
= $2150

And you have the best performance possible. Far more than mine MacBook Pro 16” with 32GB for $3000 and more flexible solution.

What if I’m out and I need to edit 4K in ways not possible in the iPad Pro because apps still lack certain features? One need to ask one self, do you need that really that often when out and about? Or is that a need or a nice to have? You know, like those people that when to go on holidays need to take the entire worthrope otherwise feel unsafe.

If you conclude after all this, even if one already have a Desktop Computer somewhere, that you actually need those features quite often while out and about than ... go for it.

I’m a software dev. I divide what I do in two big activity groups:

- Heavy lifting tasks: such as coding, scripting, testing, debuggin managing cloud services and data center
- Management and Support Tasks: Business management, project planing and management, documentation, team leadership, presentations, meeting, blog posts ....

I’ve found that with the iPad Pro I can do all of the second at the same level as on a laptop if not better at cases. The first, of course can’t do. Still mostely when out of the office and about don’t really engage into this heavy lifting tasks. Even on business trips. And when if for some urgent need I do, I simply remote to Desktop Computer (Jump Desktop) and access more performance than I would have with a maxed out laptop for much less money. Now this might not work for video editing, most people do not make 4K videos for a living!

I wish Apple extended SideCar features to work over the Internet with the iPad Pro. A Back to My Mac tool baked in iPad OS and macOS.

If you see the iPad Pro something between a Phone and a Desktop PC, designed not to replace anything but complement both with mobile computing features while out of the work desk, as well as an extention to both when in proximity than you actually get what are the core design values of this product. You will see that questions “Can the iPad Pro replace the laptop?” entirely miss the point from a productivity and cost perspective.

Cheers.

I really like the way you split the workflow up. The truth is many people fit in your second category, “management and support tasks”. I wonder how many people really have “Heavy Lifting” requirements, as you describe it. From a productivity and ergonomic perspective, I also like the iPad plus Desktop combo. Not that most people need desktop power, but a large monitor and proper work station does wonders for the body and reduces fatigue. It’s much better than being hunched over a laptop for hours.

Imagine a typical office jockey:
Base iPad ($250 on sale) + keyboard case + Apple Pencil = $500
iMac = $1,200

The iPad is for taking notes at meetings, annotating documents, and using productivity apps on business travel. The iMac is for more intensive tasks at a comfortable office workstation. I could see how this would work for many people. Also, it allows the user to move around and work from a variety of positions/configurations, such as tablet mode, laptop mode, and desktop mode. Anyway, it’s not for everyone, but I could see a lot of people migrating to this setup.

 

[fokmik]

If you don’t need to draw or use the pencil...a mac its still can run all windows apps all macos apps all linux apps and soon ipados apps...

 

[Bearygoodfries1]

The price of the "magic" keyboard combined with the fact that it has no function keys or even an escape key renders it useless to me as a coder. Low-end MBP easily wins that head-to-head-to-head for me.

Even if those keys were included, could someone code on an iPad?

I initially got the previous model because I kept seeing a bunch of programmers “coding” on an iPad (realized it was fake, just for show, I should have known better).

I regretted my purchased, but too late to return it by that point.

I’m currently taking a course online, and being able to code on an iPad would be nice.

 

[iPadified]

Amazing that so many are triggered by the fact that the iPad is competent device.

The point is that this comparison can be made at all. Now the compute power of iPad is there as well as the keyboard/trackpad, nothing is stopping more complex cursor centric desktop apps to appear in the iPad. It will be intersting to see how a 15W (2-3 times higher TDP that A12Z)) "A" processor will perform in the future. I think though that an Apple Laptop/desktop ARM should be developed that is not limited by an architecture that fits a phone as the current "A" processor line. If Apple is equally successful, no wonder there is talk about an ARM based Mac.

 

[mtneer]

<...>
My current maxed out MB pro late 2013 is still blazing fast, but now I need a second laptop and cannot really wait for the arm - or should I? ARMs will likely improve laptops rather than iMacs I guess???

What is your use case for the second machine? If you are planning any work or production work on the second machine, why not go with the known-good Intel platform and give the ARM platform a couple of years to mature. If you are looking at just simple light leisure use, then ofcourse anything would work (including why a second machine at all?)
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Is it fair to compare geekbench score between devices running different OSs with completely different UIs, etc? I ask not knowing how geekbench works. Regardless, I always take these scores with a grain of salt, as I do with most spec-driven arguments.

Funny how spec wars are meaningless when compared against products where Apple is at a competitive disadvantage - and its all supposedly about the use case and "optimization", but suddenly become very important when Apple is at an advantage regardless of how contrived many of these use cases get.

 

[Mainsail]

If you don’t need to draw or use the pencil...a mac its still can run all windows apps all macos apps all linux apps and soon ipados apps...

I can’t draw worth a lick, but I do find the Pencil useful for three very practical business purposes. 1. Annotating and marking up PDFs. 2. Taking notes at meetings. 3. Making diagrams of workflows, timelines, project schedules, Etc..

I don’t view these as niche activities. They are pretty common tasks in the business world.

 

[jahutch2]

This is a fascinating comparison, not least because it shows the power of the A series chips. I think intrinsically most people just assume a "real computer" is vastly more powerful than a tablet or phone, and this shows that's not at all the case. Another take away is the MBP 13 with 8th gen CPU is a total waste of money. You're much better off with the MB Air or iPad Pro in virtually all cases. The only thing the MBP is probably better at is thermal envelope, but if you're doing tasks where that matters a lot, you're probably going to the 10th gen MBP 13" minimum anyway.

All that said -- as between the Air and iPad Pro, I really feel like it boils down to intended use. If you want a laptop form factor all of the time, I feel the iPad is a silly choice. Yes, its CPU is powerful (though an Air with an i5 closes a lot of that gap, and is still cheaper), but however good the magic keyboard may be, my feeling is it doesn't measure up to a true laptop experience, not least because the OS is still intrinsically touch focused rather than trackpad / mouse focus. The magic keyboard + iPad a wonderful option if you plan to do a mix of tablet and laptop use, but if you're "laptop only" the iPad is kind of a waste.

Also consider that macOS is vastly more flexible than iPadOS. The latter is considerably more capable than a few years ago, but it's still fundamentally an app-store based ecosystem with bad file management and minimal multitasking. While iPad-specific apps have gotten quite powerful, they still don't hold a candle in most cases to the true desktop apps available on macOS Another thing to keep in mind, is the Air is actually thinner and lighter than an iPad pro + magic keyboard combo.

Long story short -- my view is if you have a workload where you need / prefer a tablet some of the time, and iPadOS limitations don't impact you, the iPad Pro is a great choice. Otherwise, if you prefer a laptop configuration the vast majority of the time, the MBA is probably a better buy -- cheaper, better laptop experience, and a desktop OS.

 

[dingclancy23]

So why are we comparing an iPad to a Macbook in the first place then?

Bringing up development and capability is absolutely fair game, especially since people try to pass off iPads as capable versatile devices (which they’re not.)

Need a device to read or do some basic typing, drawing or note taking, or to use some specific apps? iPad

Need a device to create documents, develop, work or do any sort of extended editing? Mac.

Two different devices. No matter how many people on here claim an iPad is a laptop replacement, it’s not.

Yeah... the Macbook is not versatile at all, at least compared to the iPad Pro.

It is actually incomparable.
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Chill...

I didn't quote anybody, so clearly anyone with a bit of intelligence should know that I wasn't telling everyone not to purchase iPad simply because it doesn't suit my need...

I'm only stating the fact that, with all the preparation done (multitasking, fast cpu), they should either simply open up more possibilities. It's perfect to dev on iPad with docker in arm cpu that gets to deploy to arm instance on the cloud! Also, like you stated, I've heard about the Xcode rumour... ... I just can't wait til the day it comes!

Do you know how difficult it is to always need to carry heavy laptop while traveling around the world or on a beach when production alert hit? I even had to address a client issue at FL350 once... Taking a 15" MBP out from overhead bin and fix a bug in premium economy space isn't really ideal... Imagine if I can do that on an iPad...

Devs will be the last people to get the coolest things on the iPad that would make heavy coding possible. As Steve Jobs said, I am fine working on a truck and all devs should be fine with without thrashing the iPad. At the end of the day, most Apple developers and Web App developers, who use Macs, are mostly developing for mobile devices (iPhones, iPads). In other words, devs are slaves to the computer they loathe.

The idea that a developer cannot work on an iPad so that means it is not a proper computer is a fallacy.
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Long story short -- my view is if you have a workload where you need / prefer a tablet some of the time, and iPadOS limitations don't impact you, the iPad Pro is a great choice. Otherwise, if you prefer a laptop configuration the vast majority of the time, the MBA is probably a better buy -- cheaper, better laptop experience, and a desktop OS.

I think people are missing the limitations of the Macbook and OSX when compared to iOS devices. My point is, limitation is not one-sided in this discussion.

 

[AxiomaticRubric]

Even if those keys were included, could someone code on an iPad?

I initially got the previous model because I kept seeing a bunch of programmers “coding” on an iPad (realized it was fake, just for show, I should have known better).

I regretted my purchased, but too late to return it by that point.

I’m currently taking a course online, and being able to code on an iPad would be nice.

The primary obstacle is the sandboxed nature of iPadOS.

Apple would have to allow a dedicated development partition (without the sandbox limitations) to make code compilation and builds possible. Presumably this is what they plan to do with the iPad version of Xcode.

Even so I'm not expecting Xcode on an iPad to be good for much beyond training and practice. I'm not sure developers will be able to create and distribute apps for the App Store using only an iPad.

 

[fairuz]

For a long time, the 13" MBP has been the gold standard general-purpose laptop for both work and non-work, especially programming. I'm glad that after the 2016-2019 disaster, Apple has restored it to its former glory. USB-C has gotten some time to catch up, so it's no longer retarded that it only has those ports, but I'll still wait for that stuff to really settle while my 2015 MBP marches on.
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Even if those keys were included, could someone code on an iPad?

I initially got the previous model because I kept seeing a bunch of programmers “coding” on an iPad (realized it was fake, just for show, I should have known better).

I regretted my purchased, but too late to return it by that point.

I’m currently taking a course online, and being able to code on an iPad would be nice.

You have to watch out, lots of fakes out there given how much magic a coder can show without really doing anything. You can probably find a way to code on an iPad, but it's not worth the effort when you can just get a Mac or even Linux PC instead.

Also, this is up to you, but I'd recommend starting with the computer science theory, which doesn't even require a computer. Even the smartest people I've known who have skipped that stuff have ended up with gaps in their engineering skills.
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do you have a brain ?

clearly it’s not for you but guess what, people have different needs and when it comes to the general public’s typical use cases and needs you’re in a very tiny minority...

PS. Xcode for ipad is coming soon mr. ”developer”

Web browsing sucks on it too. Everything is just slower to deal with. Who is this majority who really wants to use an iPad? I know one person who does, and it's because of very specific needs involving the tablet writing capabilities. Also great for people like my grandma who have no choice because they don't know how PCs work.

 

[Pugly]

At this point it's really just about personal preference than any comparisons. I don't think any performance gap is really going to change the preference of iPad to laptop or the other way around.

And even the Pro and Air comparisons is more personal preference than about raw performance anymore. Do you want wedge shape, function keys and cheaper vs. some more performance, Touch Bar and nicer screen/speakers.

 

[Jandalf]

What is your use case for the second machine? If you are planning any work or production work on the second machine, why not go with the known-good Intel platform and give the ARM platform a couple of years to mature. If you are looking at just simple light leisure use, then ofcourse anything would work (including why a second machine at all?)
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I share the MB Pro With my wife together with an IPad Pro 2018, which wasn’t a problem the last years, but workload and conferences during Corona is pushing the limits and we both agree that writing and Office apps are just not the same on the IPad compared to the MacBook: so we fight over the MB... 😉 mainly because of the OS.
therefore a second machine with macOS is in need for office stuff, leisure and a little photos, Logic and iMovie (seldom).
Also thought about IMac, but too expensive and I rather not buy early 2019 right now ( actually I wait until new IMacs come out to get the option to buy a used late 2017 as a bargain ...)

 

[monol0g]

I just wish we could finally code on the ipad. YES I know there are some weird apps, workarounds, etc but give me something like visual xcode/android studio/visual studio/ on the iPad (I don't count leaks/rumours). While it is a niche request, it is a powerful machine with an incredible CPU, let me use it. I could finally get rid of my 2017 MBP.

 

[Emanuel Rodriguez]

The new 13.5" Surface Book 3 can be configured with a NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1650 with Max-Q Design w/4GB GDDR5 graphics memory (on Intel® i7-1065G7 models).

Sorry, but there's no excuse for the future 14" MBP not getting a dedicated GPU.👍

Just because it can be done, doesn't mean it's optimal. A dedicated GPU takes up room on the motherboard, and as a result reduces the amount of space available to the battery, necessitating a reduction in battery size, on top of the increased battery usage incurred by including a dedicated graphics card. It's a complete waste if you don't need it. Intel's integrated GPUs have progressed to the point where very few people really need anything more powerful, regardless.

 

[AndiG]

The iPad Pro is completely useless to me as a developer I just use it for surfing, sketching and testing machine. No developer tools, just a single port, no shell(!), no vm, no developer tools, no Textmate, no python - ruby - c++ - JavaScript - wireshark - Qt - AndroidStudio ...

At the moment the iPad is completely useless when it comes to the task to generate the software that should run on an iPad. Uh and the monitor is much to small (12“ iPad Pro vs dual 30“ monitors I can connect with a MBP).

 

[Darth Tulhu]

This comparison was an eye-opener for me. I did not expect the A-series chips to be THAT powerful.

I like how it illustrates that your professional needs and familiarity will be the biggest factors in leaning towards one device or the other.

The Mac OS has been a mature product for decades. It hasn't changed the way we fundamentally use a Mac for almost 20 years.

On the other hand, i(Pad)OS has been maturing since the beginning, and thus the iPad has been slowly transforming into something more than just a "device in the middle". The device many dismissed as "just a big iPod Touch" has become "all the computer you'll ever need" for a great many folks out there. It's been kind of a slow-burning, quiet revolution going on, driven by the iPhone Trojan horse, and is why Apple has positioned the iPad in a similar pricing tier as their Macs, I think.

The iPad is the more "exciting" device, where we get to see what new capability Apple will give it next. Eventually, the iPad will be able to do EVERYTHING the Mac can, but the converse will not be true.

I believe this is due to the fact that adding precision (only when necessary) to a touch-driven OS is FAR easier than adding touch to a precision-driven OS, which is why the Microsoft approach is fundamentally flawed.

The iPad (OS) is the future. The OS to replace macOS was here already all along. We just didn't know it.

 

[aknabi]

Great...

Now please let me install Docker, Xcode, and Android Studio on iPad Pro...

Yeah I'd like to see the Xcode (and heck why not Android Studio) build benchmarks across three
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do you have a brain ?

clearly it’s not for you but guess what, people have different needs and when it comes to the general public’s typical use cases and needs you’re in a very tiny minority...

PS. Xcode for ipad is coming soon mr. ”developer”

Yeah he's a developer so I'm betting he's got a brain... but he meant it as a snipe... but I get the civilian need to smack developers because they're jealous of the position the "nerds" have achieved in the modern world.

 

[AndiG]

...
The iPad (OS) is the future. The OS to replace macOS was here already all along. We just didn't know it.

Don‘t forget that iPadOS will be finally under the total control of Apple. Every software you want to use has to go through the AppStore you can‘t even run a script to convert a bunch of files. FFmpeg or any other great tool will never make it to the iPad.
This is a nightmare or dream (from Apples point of view) come true. The future is here, what once was a nightmare arrived already. Even the cyberdogs of Ray Bradburys Fahrenheit 451 are already in the streets.

I‘ll have to admit the macOS has become clumsy and old when you compare it to Linux or even Windows - but a lockdown system like iPadOS is not the way to go and shouldn‘t cause anyone to cheer.

 

[iPadified]

The iPad Pro is completely useless to me as a developer I just use it for surfing, sketching and testing machine. No developer tools, just a single port, no shell(!), no vm, no developer tools, no Textmate, no python - ruby - c++ - JavaScript - wireshark - Qt - AndroidStudio ...

At the moment the iPad is completely useless when it comes to the task to generate the software that should run on an iPad. Uh and the monitor is much to small (12“ iPad Pro vs dual 30“ monitors I can connect with a MBP).

It should be, it was never designed for that purpose. My VW Golf is not a very good truck either.

 

[Darth Tulhu]

Don‘t forget that iPadOS will be finally under the total control of Apple. Every software you want to use has to go through the AppStore you can‘t even run a script to convert a bunch of files. FFmpeg or any other great tool will never make it to the iPad.
This is a nightmare or dream (from Apples point of view) come true. The future is here, what once was a nightmare arrived already. Even the cyberdogs of Ray Bradburys Fahrenheit 451 are already in the streets.

I‘ll have to admit the macOS has become clumsy and old when you compare it to Linux or even Windows - but a lockdown system like iPadOS is not the way to go and shouldn‘t cause anyone to cheer.

That is a WAY too pessimistic a view.

You can always NOT use Apple products. But given that Apple wants a cut of apps on their devices, I'm thinking we'll be fine. Apps for the iPad are generally excellent and safe, BECAUSE of App Store curation.

I left the walled (iOS) garden years ago, because it didn't serve my needs or wants. Things are looking pretty good now, and I'm thinking of coming back.

So, there's ALWAYS a choice. It's not the dystopia you make it sound like.

 

[Zorori]

"The iPad Pro is more powerful than both the MacBook Air and the MacBook Pro..."

I'm a tech ignoramus, but I thought the whole concern with Apple possibly switching to ARM for the MacBook is that ARM chips are significantly less powerful than Intel's chips. Is that not the case?

The other concern is there are people (not me) who want to use BootCamp for windows. Then there's software.

There have been concerns about performance, but the only devices we can extrapolate this from are Windows ARM machines. These chips that are slower than the one used by the iPad pro and struggle with X86 emulated software (not native code, which doesn't have such a problem).

I've seen the Snapdragon 8CX claimed to be the solution for Windows machines, but it's Geekbench benchmarks show it performing slightly better than an A10X, so you can imagine how much faster an A14X based system could be.

======

For the GPU in a 13/14". I really don't want one, if it's an optional upgrade then it's okay -- as if I really wanted a GPU I'd get an external one anyway (or a desktop).

 

[chucker23n1]

"The iPad Pro is more powerful than both the MacBook Air and the MacBook Pro..."

I'm a tech ignoramus, but I thought the whole concern with Apple possibly switching to ARM for the MacBook is that ARM chips are significantly less powerful than Intel's chips. Is that not the case?

No. In single-core performance, Apple's ARM chips are ahead of Intel, especially in the mobile segment. An iPhone 11 is 20% faster in single-threaded tasks than the top 16-inch MacBook Pro configuration, despite obviously having a lot less thermal headroom to play with. We can extrapolate that, if Apple were to put a chip in a larger device, it'd almost certainly be even faster, but we don't quite have the data on just how much.

Concerns with the transition include:

• how fast will third parties recompile their apps? What will we lose?
• will there be a transitional emulator, as was the case when we moved from 68k to PowerPC and from PowerPC to Intel, but wasn't the case when 32-bit Intel was ditched? And if so: will Apple's ARM chips be faster enough that emulated speed will be OK? Or will that be painful?
• what about virtualization? This particularly concerns Windows, but also Linux in e.g. Docker containers. Software developers in particular might be hit hard by this one. Windows and Linux do run on ARM, but it's nowhere near as typical an environment as on x86. And, again, that brings up questions of emulation.
• what about Boot Camp? This ties into the above, except it's not virtualized. Will there be a Boot Camp for ARM Macs? Will Apple find a way to run Windows on ARM on a Mac, and have most of the hardware (trackpad, Wi-Fi, etc.) work? Will that include Microsoft's/Qualcomm's x86 emulator?

 

[bobob]

The picture of the person trying to write on the iPad with the keyboard contraption - looks very clumsy to me.

As it should.

"There’s a reason Apple’s videos about the Magic Keyboard always show someone grabbing the iPad with one hand and walking away with it. That’s the killer feature. That’s what separates it from every Mac laptop. It’s a laptop—until the moment you decide you don’t want it to be that anymore. And then it’s not." - via MacWorld

 

[chucker23n1]

If it’s based on Tiger Lake U then it would have an Intel Xe iGPU, which is another large jump from the G7 now.

A DGPU in a 13” is uncommon and not something many people need/want. If there is one it’s typically ultra low power anyways, like an MX150, which the Xe will easily surpass.

Yeah, Tiger Lake will be interesting. I'm not confident they'll ship it on time.

It's curious that they've apparently canceled the 1068G7 (or rather made it Apple-exclusive). That could, however, also mean that Tiger Lake is coming sooner rather than later and that they just didn't bother shipping the 1068G7 any more.

 

[AndiG]

That is a WAY too pessimistic a view.

You can always NOT use Apple products. But given that Apple wants a cut of apps on their devices, I'm thinking we'll be fine. Apps for the iPad are generally excellent and safe, BECAUSE of App Store curation.

I left the walled (iOS) garden years ago, because it didn't serve my needs or wants. Things are looking pretty good now, and I'm thinking of coming back.

So, there's ALWAYS a choice. It's not the dystopia you make it sound like.

It is - Apple couldn't close macOS. So they (maybe) try to use an already closed OS to replace macOS in the future. Remember when China forced Apple to remove some Apps (Hongkong anyone?).

Apple (re)started on the base of a free and OpenSource BSD system. They build macOS on top of free standards like OpenGL. LLVM had major success (OpenSource) and lot of other OSS stuff founded the success of Apple (you name it).
Microsoft based it's success with Azure on OpenSource tools (where would Azure be without BSD?).

Now Apple is trying to lock everything down. Users should reach out to Apple and complain. At least there HAS to be an alternate AppStore. And do you really feel safe and secure because of the AppStore?

Siguza tells you the following on Twitter:

<key>application-identifier</key>
<string>...</string>
<!---><!-->
<key>platform-application</key>
<true/>
<key>com .apple.private.security.no-container</key>
<true/>
<key>task_for_pid-allow</key>
<true/>
<!-- -->

And only god knows how many open bugs still exist and nobody knows. At least it keeps stupid people from downloading software from malicious sites - that is true.