I actually sold my MBP and got the iPad Pro. I loved it before, but with the addition of the Magic Keyboard it truly feels like the best of both worlds. Yeah, it's heavy. But it is such a joy to use.
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Comparing the 13-Inch MacBook Pro to the MacBook Air and iPad Pro
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What a mess. The i3 MacBook Air is faster than Pro in single-core tasks and the i5 is faster in multi-core tasks too. The "Pro" machine can't even be connected to the Pro display they sell, but the cheap MacBook Air can.
What the hell is the logic in keeping 8th gen CPU MBPs? They don't support 6K Pro displays or 32GB RAM. I wouldn't call these machines "Pro" at all.
What the hell is the logic in keeping 8th gen CPU MBPs? They don't support 6K Pro displays or 32GB RAM. I wouldn't call these machines "Pro" at all.
It's clearly a stopgap until either Intel can deliver better CPUs in quantity (there still seem to be volume production issues with Ice Lake, more than half a year in) or perhaps until Apple switches that one over to ARM. My guess is the former: that, come Tiger Lake, the lower-end Pro also gets an upgrade.
They delivered 10th gen CPUs. Apple decided to charge more for them, instead of phasing out the 8th Gen CPUs. It makes me angry because my workflow is extremely RAM-hungry but not CPU intensive, but to get 32GB RAM on the MBP is a £900 upgrade from the base model.
No doubt, I would use the iPadPro for when I want a drawing app. I'm sure the keyboard and trackpad support is nice.
But it's not even worth considering as a laptop replacement. I have multiple applications and tabs on two browsers open right now.I also make regular use of applications like code editors which let me view projects, for which there isn't as versatile a solution in the containerized world of iOS. I have to access several web portals through my browser like most people do these days, and it's hit and miss to do that with iOS.
Mainly, the inability to install browser extensions just makes the iPad not as versatile as MacOS, full stop. There is no replacing a desktop OS until I can do that. (Adblockers, too.)
The frustrating thing is that the touch interface Microsoft makes would be a nice best-of-both-worlds alternative. Except that the Apple Pencil is just far better than any "touch" laptop screen out there by a long mile. So if I want to actually use a stylus to draw on a screen, there just isn't a better option than buying two devices.
But it's not even worth considering as a laptop replacement. I have multiple applications and tabs on two browsers open right now.I also make regular use of applications like code editors which let me view projects, for which there isn't as versatile a solution in the containerized world of iOS. I have to access several web portals through my browser like most people do these days, and it's hit and miss to do that with iOS.
Mainly, the inability to install browser extensions just makes the iPad not as versatile as MacOS, full stop. There is no replacing a desktop OS until I can do that. (Adblockers, too.)
The frustrating thing is that the touch interface Microsoft makes would be a nice best-of-both-worlds alternative. Except that the Apple Pencil is just far better than any "touch" laptop screen out there by a long mile. So if I want to actually use a stylus to draw on a screen, there just isn't a better option than buying two devices.
True, my motorbIke does not replace my car either. I would say neither replace the other.
So your car takes you from point A to point B that way. So do bikes. Meaning you can do that in the iPad Pro also. Don’t see the difference for the better in such feature description.
? You mean MS stuff that only runs on Edge or the new MS friend, Chromium?
I would not say my bike is less versatile than my car. Especially when in high traffic. Catch the drift?
So no you would like a stearing wheel on my bike.
I think the frustrating thing on these discussions is that we talk about X replacing Y talking ona a feature by feature basis. This rather that, ”what’s the point?”. Imagine comparing motorbikes, cars and trucks this way? What would you conclude?
I like you like cars I like cars too. That does not mean that I think everything needs to be a car to be as useful if not more in taking me from point A to point B.
This conversations make no sense because It’s kind of like a truck driver explaining to car driver wanna be how bad cars are if not for their speed and vice versa. Get the bikers and you have a party. Oh, don’t forget cyclists.
I’m honest. The reason why I‘be been always interested in the iPad Pro’s approach its precisely because I consider the laptop / hybrid approach limited! Probably also the reason why you may be interested in the conversation. Nothing else. In many ways to me it has proven to be more versatile. Granted, I don’t complain about it having two wheels in instead of 4 because I don’t see the point in that. I’ve embraced the two wheels because I’ve experienced advantages.
For instance, the reviewer said that it does not use the iPad Pro to edit 4K inspite of being capable, because he does not want to lean to lean how to use it to do so, he knows how to do that in a car so that is enough or him. Fair enough, but one cannot fault the device neither its design for that decision. What he might be saying, is that the device has not given him reasons to use it that while having a car on his side. Given he has a powerful Desktop to edit 4K video, a truck and a Macbook Pro 16 with whatever. The question is than, given he already has a Desktop PC for work, what he would choose between the iPad Pro and a Laptop if his budget was tighter, and why?
Far more interesting than what replaces what, it could be if youtubers and we in general explain how and why we use each tool available to them. What are the domain constrains driving our decisions. Because if they are so good, why they we even considering other options? Don’t get it sometimes. I don’t go to people that know and love to ride thir bikes back and forth from work and explain to them how limited bikes are so on and so forth. This happens because the entire conversation starts with the wrong premisses, ”something replacing something” looking at just one context, while there might be reasons that we haven’t even thought about because we never considered it given out PC/car driven education/culture. Which is often the case.
So why is this news again? Well, for one bikes evolved recently, new engines and “new“ ways to drive them and people are curious because they find what they use relatively limited in many aspects. That is all.
Cheers.
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Ditto. My main computer too, and I just to the Magic Keyboard today. Wow! What a difference it makes to be able to use a trackpad in iOS. So much better than touching the screen to edit text.
And the 11-inch is the perfect size for me too. Tried the bigger one but just didn’t need that screen space.
By calling it a toy you add insult and provocations that are not needed in this debate.
For many people they are; it depends on their use case. To say they are not "capable versatile devices" based on a very limited use case is not a valid argument, IMHO.
Which, combined with its portability advantage over the Mac makes it a "capable versatile device" for many users.
Sure, a Mac has advantages over the iPad but they are only relevant if you need them. In some cases a Mac would be a worse solution, for example in a classroom where battery life and durability are key considerations. Oer in a kitchen when fir receipes. Or in the field for data collection, submitting quotes, etc.
If you use web apps instead of locals the iPad is often just as good as a Mac.
Sure, different devices but for some an iPad will meet their needs and replace a laptop. For others, it won't. In my case, it is a perfect adjunct to my Mac and for short trips is perfectly fine as a replacement. YMMV HAND
It’s interesting - I am using an ipad for work precisely because I find that iOS is able to get out of the way, allowing me to do what I want to do, in ways that windows or even macOS can’t.
For one, a combination of fullscreen apps and DND allows me to focus better than a full-blown windowing desktop system.
An ipad (at least the 11” pro version with the Smart Keyboard) is lighter than a MacBook Air or pro. Being able to detach the ipad from the Smart Keyboard and lean back makes for a terrific break from hunching over a screen all day.
The stock apps have pretty good synergy with Siri, and I find myself using Siri a great deal on my iOS devices compared to on my Mac for some reason. Probably because of Hey Siri.
There is less friction switching between my iphone and ipad compared to between macOS and iOS, since the apps for the former are more or less identical.
LTE gives me the freedom of working anywhere without needing to tether from my phone.
In all, I find my ipad to be a complimentary marriage of the focused simplicity of iOS with the powerful versatility of native apps. And I quite like these mac vs ipad threads. Replying to them gives me the opportunity to really reflect over just why I prefer working from the ipad so much, and it really boils down to my ipad being an ideal blend of portability, battery life and ease of use.
I completely agree, this is why I hate when companies deliberately sabotage cheaper lines to force an upsell in attempt to extract as much revenue from customers as possible
This is a trademark of post a Steve Jobs era Apple, non upgradable devices, bigger margins, planned obsolescence and hard up selling. I guess that's what happens when a product chain inventory manager runs the company and not a visionary..
1. Macbook air is a great value at 999, retina display, fast memory, 256gb storage, keyboard does not suck, reasonably fast 10th gen i3
2. ONLY 100 extra for an upgrade to a quad core and 50% faster iris plus G7 graphics, “I'll be stupid not to upgrade”..
3. Air has horrific thermals and the i5 and i7 will throttle instantly and overheat when it turbos because [imo] apple deliberately nerfed the air, further proof is that the fan is not directly connected via heat pipe to the cpu on the airs. I assume this was done last minute in the design phase to artificially nerf the airs performance and not cannibalize sales from the higher margin 13 inch Pros. There is no other logical solution to why there cpu heat pipe is not connected to the fan.
4. because of the problems shown in 3. pay the small premium to upgrade to the non-nerfed 13 inch entry level macbook pro with ‘real’ cooling
5. realize the entry level 13 inch macbook pro uses ancient outdated 8th gen intel chips but the rest of the range uses 10th gen so I might as well pay to get the most up to date chip..
6 WOW my 999 purchase is now almost 1800. thank you tim cook and the bean counters(!)
On a more positive note I do think the base model 999 macbook air is the best value for money mac in a very long time.
Especially when you compare it to other competitors like microsoft when a surface pro 7 with a pitiful 4gb ram, tiny 128gb(97gb usable after formatting+win10) storage and a pro type cover is almost the same price...but still I wish apple did not deliberately make the i5 and i7 models have furnace level temps no thanks to their up selling led self sabotaging performance limiting cooling solutions..
Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
I disagree completely.
I think Microsoft's INTENTIONS were great: to have a device that handles both mouse/keyboard and touch.
The problem is that they shoehorned in the touch part on an OS built for keyboard and mouse, resulting in a comparably poor touch experience.
Apple is FINALLY taking the vision Microsoft pioneered to the iPad's OS by adding mouse/trackpad support to an OS built for touch from the ground up.
I find this to be a MUCH better approach for interfacing with the OS.
It's possible that eventually both OSes will be equally capable (Windows is a truck at heart, like macOS is), just different due to their fundamental design architecture.
Tim Cook visionary for future of technology at Apple is bad for the consumer and prosumer.
Obstructing upgradability for 2x faster NVMe M.2 in MacBook Pro is going to make a lot of people angry!
Obstructing upgradability for 2x faster NVMe M.2 in MacBook Pro is going to make a lot of people angry!
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If Apple designed better thermal capacity in the Air I think a higher number of discerning customers would be happy to pay even a $200 upgrade to the i5, rather than continue upgrading to the pro models.
Steve famously simplified market segmentation so Apple could deliver best in class. Now, it seems entirely geared towards an upgrade path.
Steve famously simplified market segmentation so Apple could deliver best in class. Now, it seems entirely geared towards an upgrade path.
Did the MBA, at least this chassis design, ever have a dedicated cooling pipe for the CPU? I can see why it wasn't included as the chassis was designed for dual-core processors and maybe the latest iteration with a four-core was never accounted for when it was developed.
Also, I doubt Apple would sell all that many more, especially at a $200 premium, of i5 versions with better cooling. The people, such as us, questioning the performance are living in a pretty small echo chamber.
Can we just stop with the BS comparisons of benchmark scores between proper laptops and the iPad Pro? Show me an iPad Pro running a full copy of MacOS and then put it side by side with the new MBP with a video encoder running. Publish the results of both and then compare that. Oh wait, you CAN'T because it doesn't exist. Why? Because ARM sucks at running anything but highly optimized and specialized software built exclusively for its architecture, and the only way to receive the same performance via virtualization is by literally brute forcing it with multiple processors which chew through power faster than the single x86-64 part they are trying to emulate in the first place. Contrast that to the switch from PowerPC to Core2, in which the latter not only matched the performance of the former thanks to Rosetta, but managed to actually outperform it in side by side testing.
When are people going to get over the Intel hating, and get it through their heads that artificial benchmarks /= real world results?
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Yup. The models before the USB-C packing redesign all had a heatpipe, as you can clearly see in this iFixit teardown.
www.ifixit.com
When are people going to get over the Intel hating, and get it through their heads that artificial benchmarks /= real world results?
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Yup. The models before the USB-C packing redesign all had a heatpipe, as you can clearly see in this iFixit teardown.
MacBook Air 13" Mid 2013 I/O Board Replacement
Use this guide to replace the I/O board.
www.ifixit.com
Single core performance looks at least comparable to the best Intel and AMD have to offer so don't think it would be necessary to rely on more cores to push up performance. There would be a gain by actively cooling the chip and letting it draw more power on a sustained basis. It probably wouldn't yield a linear performance increase, but the performance is already there, it just has to self limit in the iPad design so it doesn't cook itself.
Can’t upgrade or repair. Not reasonably.
Reduce and reuse come before recycle. I don’t care what green materials it’s made out of if it’s just lip service.
No.
iPadOS is not "highly optimized and specialized software built exclusively for its architecture".
iPadOS is basically macOS recompiled for ARM with a different UI framework.
Or, vice versa, macOS is iPadOS recompiled for x86 with a different UI framework.
The two are highly related.
That's probably true, but that really just means "ARM may be better, but it's not twice as good".
I… literally don't understand where you totally disagree. I think we exactly agree. I would like it if I could use a full desktop OS AND have the quality Apple Pencil interaction. Microsoft's touch controls are okay for swiping on the screen or maybe highlighting something with a stylus, but it's no contest in that the iPad and Apple Pencil are actually usable for genuine productivity in drawing on the screen. Nothing comes close.
With my work, I use a MacBookPro. And I couldn't replace it with an iPad. Too much multitasking, going into code, too many portals via which we have secure areas services, shared secure sites I have to log into, etc. It's not possible when being limited to sandboxed apps with minimal multi-tasking abilities. And that's for IT and Engineering DevOps. Same would go for heavy duty content-creators.
But if I were drawing on the screen, there is no good alternative to what the iPad pro can do. I could get by doing code-and-portal work-work with something other than MacOS. But Windows cannot do what the iPad can do, either. The iPad pro is irreplaceable for certain, very specific use cases. It's a poor substitute, IMHO, for most professional work cases. And overkill just for consuming content, like watching Netflix or reading PDFs, which is what I use my iPad Air for.
Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
My disagreement lies with your assertion: "The frustrating thing is that the touch interface Microsoft makes would be a nice best-of-both-worlds alternative.". It's not just about the Pencil, it's the pencil-less implementation of Apple's approach that makes it brilliant.
I think a lot of people get hung up on the assertion that an iPad can replace laptops. But it seems like that idea is coming more from those that NEED a laptop as an objection.
The iPad is, and never was, intended to replace laptops in the absolute sense. It is made for users that don't NEED (or want) a laptop to get their work or personal stuff done. This doesn't mean the iPad isn't a professional tool or a toy (as many like to dismiss it). It is an entirely different kind of device, with different attributes, that has gone from being simply a consumption device to a full blown touch-based toolbox.
That's why when introduced, it sat in the middle between an iPhone and a Mac. It is EXACTLY that. The MacBook cannot replace your iPhone. An iPhone cannot replace an iPad. An iPad cannot replace an iPhone. An iMac cannot replace a MacPro. But none of those concepts are absolute. Kids are writing school papers on their iPhone because they type faster on it with their thumbs, for example. So someone uses their iPhone as their primary computing device (who doesn't?), then when they need to perform a task that the iPhone cannot do or is impractical, they can move to the next category (the iPad). For some people, their needs stop there without having to go all the way over to a laptop, an iMac, or finally a Mac Pro.
The iPad is the missing link, that sits at the heart of most people's computing needs, I believe.
So every time someone says: "the iPad can replace a laptop" or "the iPad cannot replace a laptop" they're speaking from the perspective of their needs. The "for me" suffix is IMPLIED.
And by the way, I work in DevOps. I totally could do my job with an iPad (especially now that they have trackpad support and the text-editing is improved). But I use a laptop because it's the company-issued device, and frankly I'm faster on it, muscle-memory and all that.
Computing has reached Jeet-Kune-Do levels of flexibility: use what works for you, discard the rest.