Complaints About the 2016 MBP Underpowered Justified?

[WhiteWhaleHolyGrail]

*Walks into high pressured boardroom meeting with clients, pulls out latest Alienware 3 inch thick brick with glowing ports, vents and alien logo*

*The beast lands on the highly polished table with a thud and a crack. Room goes quiet. Tumbleweed*

'Yes that's right people, it has the GTX1080!'

*Smiles smugly and begins speaking into his microphone so the clients can hear him over the mighty drone of the fans kicking in*

And that was that dear reader, he never worked again.

 

[aevan]

It is the other way, users who value on raw power are finding it less and less justifiable to get Macs, as not just the new MBP but all Macs across the current line up have more focus on arguably novelty features than not. Apple could have offered more power in their machines, or at least have specific models that do so, but they haven't for a long time.

True. And I agree, in fact, I'd like Apple to offer something with hundreds of Gb RAM and Titan GPUs and whatever (if for nothing else, for all the nagging to stop Jk) But, it's not like these MBPs and iMacs are underpowered computers that barely run apps or something - they are quite fast for a lot of pro tasks.

 

[maratus]

I posted this in the comments on a previous thread and thought I would post it in a new thread.

There have been some unjustified criticism of Apples products, especially the desktop computers and notebooks. I honestly would like to know, what users are doing so much with their Macs that would cause them to determine Apple's offerings unsatisfactory? What are you making with these computers? I think part of what has happened over the past 10 years with the transition to Intel, a lot of new users came from the WinTel platform (including myself) and came with the feeds and speed mentality.

A lot of these new generation of Mac users are partly bandwagonists. They are not actual core users of the platform. They wanted to be part of something and this was part of the Steve Jobs aurora. The sales pitch is not as convincing with a Phil Schiller or Ive. Certainly, if Steve presented the new MacBooks, many would not complaining.

The days when Apple was behind with the PowerPC chip; they never cared much for the platform. When Steve introduced the Intel transition, he focused on performance per watt. Not about having a machine with the most RAM or fastest GHz. We have fallen into this trap in 2016 of believing we must future proof the living daylights out of a system to find some imaginary value that will justify buying. We stop looking at buying to meet our "genuine" needs and not who has the biggest (you know what). I think a lot of the unboxing videos on YouTube have fed into this too.

This month I visited the states and of course I checked out the iPhone 7 Plus, which I had my eyes on as a possible upgrade from my standard 6s. After checking it out, I asked myself, do I really need this? I had the cash ready, but I said, is this going make posting to Facebook, Twitter, or improve filtered photos on IG any better? I am able to do so much already; I have not exhausted the 64 GBs of space in the phone, all my iTunes library, photos taken over the past year are on it.

The new MacBook Pro is nice, but I don't want it, because my 2015 MBP 13 Broadwell is still a great machine that does all I need. I use it for what it is, not to satisfy some imaginary need. I run a couple VMs on 8 GBs of RAM with it, play music in iTunes, surf the web in Firefox and Safari, constantly in Word, working on a slide show in PPT and its not even sweating.

I was watching Computer Chronicles this week and an Apple rep was creating professional content on a Power Mac G3 for broadcast. That proved to be a core target audience and it got the job done in 1999. I just want to know why can't a maxed out MBP 15 or entry level model in 2016 do this? Why would it not do this in 2018 too? Users were doing major motion picture post production on Macs for ages and they didn't seem held back by it.

Show me your Grammy, Emmy, Oscar and other accolades then I might be receptive to your complaint. If you are not creating motion pictures, then stop complaining. Even then, if you were, you would have use whatever that movie studio provides you, whether that's a 2013 Mac Pro or a 2016 Dell Precision with Linux and Lightworks. Don't tell me that the 2016 MacBook Pro is not enough for you to edit pictures of your children picking boogers in 4k or a member of your church eating cake.

No

 

[aevan]

No

Hahhaha, honestly I can't understand if you agree, disagree, or whatever, but I am laughing out loud at this response

 

[Nar1117]

Almost everyone in this thread missed the entire point of OP's argument and instead proved his point.

 

[aevan]

Almost everyone in this thread missed the entire point of OP's argument and instead proved his point.

Point? Son, we don't make points here anymore. Just pick a side and repeat the same arguments over and over. For example, try making a new topic and ask if you can clean the new MBP screen with water, third post will be about ports, fourth about the GPU.

 

[daveak]

The SSD on the XPS 15 is user upgradable. As is the memory. Remove the backcover and the SSD M.2 module and memory modules are right there. One could install a Samsung Pro 960 which is the same performance as (3 GB/sec max) as the new Macbook Pro. But, the standard drive in the XPS is OEM version Samsung Pro 950 which is the same performance as the 2015 15" rMBP (1.5 GB/sec mac) so it might not make that much of a difference in real life.

While I agree it might not make that much difference, you just added what, another $300+ ? to the cost of that XPS 15 by installing a 960. Given the argument against the MBP is the cost it seems a strange thing to do.

 

[MH01]

Which feel significantly cheaper, too. And they don't run macOS. Not everyone buys computers based on the CPU & GPU alone.
[doublepost=1480447597][/doublepost]

I don't see a better machine out there, for any price. But that's just me. If you define "better" as "better performance" - then, yes, you're right. But for me, a laptop running Windows cannot be better. A without an awesome trackpad, cannot be better, etc.

I'm not saying MBPs are objectively best for everyone - it's ok to prefer specs over other things - but this is not an universal rule that applies to everyone. This obsession with performance needs to stop. It's 2016. These are all supercomputers. We edited 4K videos before Skylakes and Kaby Lakes. We ran Adobe apps before Nvidia series 10. I'm sure there are people who loose money if their rendering speed is not the theoretical maximum of the current generation or something - but for the majority of users, pro and non-pro alike - the PC has hit maturity. Computers are fast. It's not how much X spec you have anymore, it's how well it's built, thought out, designed, how well it works.

Or, let me say it like this: find me a laptop (at any price point) that feels as nice as the MBP.

Oh, wait, because pros don't care about nice and feel and all that stuff? They wear utilitarian clothes with 100 pockets, military boots and drive trucks. And their computers are, basically, motherboards in gray boxes.

many users feel like you do, as do I to be honest, hence why I have used Mac since powerbook days, but I am not going to tell a gamer that his brick running 1080 is a worse computer, cause frankly it meets their needs so much better than a MacBook, or a scientist working in extreme computers that need tough books etc. We have certain amount of arrogance that the MacBook is the ultimate laptop.....no....but the tool for your needs and the MacBook is the great all rounder.

Nor is there anything magical about how long Macs last, when I have spent the same money on PCs, they have lasted just as long.

The new one I am undecided about cause I like nearly everything about it, except for the battery, It really concerns me.

 

[meteoreos]

*Walks into high pressured boardroom meeting with clients, pulls out latest Alienware 3 inch thick brick with glowing ports, vents and alien logo*

*The beast lands on the highly polished table with a thud and a crack. Room goes quiet. Tumbleweed*

'Yes that's right people, it has the GTX1080!'

*Smiles smugly and begins speaking into his microphone so the clients can hear him over the mighty drone of the fans kicking in*

And that was that dear reader, he never worked again.

that was brilliant

 

[MH01]

*Walks into high pressured boardroom meeting with clients, pulls out latest Alienware 3 inch thick brick with glowing ports, vents and alien logo*

*The beast lands on the highly polished table with a thud and a crack. Room goes quiet. Tumbleweed*

'Yes that's right people, it has the GTX1080!'

*Smiles smugly and begins speaking into his microphone so the clients can hear him over the mighty drone of the fans kicking in*

And that was that dear reader, he never worked again.

congratulations for missing the entire point /golf clap.

yes there are people that buy Alienware that laugh at you too mate make jokes about Starbucks and fashion accessories......dont let that smugness wear off
[doublepost=1480449243][/doublepost]

Cpus in the new 15'' macbook pro's are significantly faster in the cinebench performance test (i measured 744 vs 641 in the R15 multicore cpu test for the hightier models of 2016 vs 2015). It seems some people just don't want to hear this. This is the first significant cpu performance increase for the 15 inches since 2012 (next to the other advances, but in my use case cpu was the bottleneck). Skylake performs much better in notebooks exactly because of it's lower tdp.

Geekbench shows a different outcome, and while this should invite us to dig deepe into it, it's senseless to refute a realworld performance test with a synthetic benchmark.

I just tried to run R15 on my 2015 and 2016 and the software has failed to load on both.

 

[Chancha]

True. And I agree, in fact, I'd like Apple to offer something with hundreds of Gb RAM and Titan GPUs and whatever (if for nothing else, for all the nagging to stop Jk) But, it's not like these MBPs and iMacs are underpowered computers that barely run apps or something - they are quite fast for a lot of pro tasks.

See this is where the problem lies, whether or not a machine is underpowered for a given user of course is subjective, but it is Apple's choice to corner itself into a specific user crowd, how ever large that demography is, where the rest are being left out of the picture. These are users that used to be within Apple's target audience but are now being "put into a side", it is not like they chose to pick this side.

 

[WhiteWhaleHolyGrail]

congratulations for missing the entire point /golf clap.

yes there are people that buy Alienware that laugh at you too mate make jokes about Starbucks and fashion accessories......dont let that smugness wear off
[doublepost=1480449243][/doublepost]

I just tried to run R15 on my 2015 and 2016 and the software has failed to load on both.

It's a joke mate. Much like your tired point.

 

[MH01]

It's a joke mate. Much like your tired point.

Kettle meet pot

 

[samcraig]

My only comment is that one can't just look at the device itself, but what's needed to really use it. So if you're going to be comparing the new MBP against any other machine, also consider the costs of the cables/dongles needed. I'm not slamming Apple specifically, but the reality is for some that the cost didn't just end with the purchase of their device. To use it with existing hardware, etc - in the same manner they used their computer before, there were additional expenses.

 

[maratus]

It's not underpowered regardless of what we see on MacCancer forums. The fact of Apple not offering a 3kg desktop replacement 15" workstation isn't a reason to criticize its 1.8kg ultraportable.

Go and complain to Apple about not having a 15" workstation with Xeon, 64GB ECC DDR4 RAM and Quadro M5000M and maybe it'll convince someone. Unfortunately, there's a limited market for such machines and it's left for Lenovo/Dell/HP mostly.

 

[burgman]

I posted this in the comments on a previous thread and thought I would post it in a new thread.

There have been some unjustified criticism of Apples products, especially the desktop computers and notebooks. I honestly would like to know, what users are doing so much with their Macs that would cause them to determine Apple's offerings unsatisfactory? What are you making with these computers? I think part of what has happened over the past 10 years with the transition to Intel, a lot of new users came from the WinTel platform (including myself) and came with the feeds and speed mentality.

A lot of these new generation of Mac users are partly bandwagonists. They are not actual core users of the platform. They wanted to be part of something and this was part of the Steve Jobs aurora. The sales pitch is not as convincing with a Phil Schiller or Ive. Certainly, if Steve presented the new MacBooks, many would not complaining.

The days when Apple was behind with the PowerPC chip; they never cared much for the platform. When Steve introduced the Intel transition, he focused on performance per watt. Not about having a machine with the most RAM or fastest GHz. We have fallen into this trap in 2016 of believing we must future proof the living daylights out of a system to find some imaginary value that will justify buying. We stop looking at buying to meet our "genuine" needs and not who has the biggest (you know what). I think a lot of the unboxing videos on YouTube have fed into this too.

This month I visited the states and of course I checked out the iPhone 7 Plus, which I had my eyes on as a possible upgrade from my standard 6s. After checking it out, I asked myself, do I really need this? I had the cash ready, but I said, is this going make posting to Facebook, Twitter, or improve filtered photos on IG any better? I am able to do so much already; I have not exhausted the 64 GBs of space in the phone, all my iTunes library, photos taken over the past year are on it.

The new MacBook Pro is nice, but I don't want it, because my 2015 MBP 13 Broadwell is still a great machine that does all I need. I use it for what it is, not to satisfy some imaginary need. I run a couple VMs on 8 GBs of RAM with it, play music in iTunes, surf the web in Firefox and Safari, constantly in Word, working on a slide show in PPT and its not even sweating.

I was watching Computer Chronicles this week and an Apple rep was creating professional content on a Power Mac G3 for broadcast. That proved to be a core target audience and it got the job done in 1999. I just want to know why can't a maxed out MBP 15 or entry level model in 2016 do this? Why would it not do this in 2018 too? Users were doing major motion picture post production on Macs for ages and they didn't seem held back by it.

Show me your Grammy, Emmy, Oscar and other accolades then I might be receptive to your complaint. If you are not creating motion pictures, then stop complaining. Even then, if you were, you would have use whatever that movie studio provides you, whether that's a 2013 Mac Pro or a 2016 Dell Precision with Linux and Lightworks. Don't tell me that the 2016 MacBook Pro is not enough for you to edit pictures of your children picking boogers in 4k or a member of your church eating cake.

Some people are only happy when driving a 500 horsepower car in city traffic because it makes them feel powerful, that's ok. Others look for the right tool for the job and leave spec hunters to their constant speed tests. If the new MacBook doesn't do what you need then why complain endlessly like so many threads here do? Move on or wait, but where is the fun in that for the entitlement class
[doublepost=1480452991][/doublepost]

congratulations for missing the entire point /golf clap.

yes there are people that buy Alienware that laugh at you too mate make jokes about Starbucks and fashion accessories......dont let that smugness wear off
[doublepost=1480449243][/doublepost]

I just tried to run R15 on my 2015 and 2016 and the software has failed to load on both.

Boy talk about smugness...

 

[duervo]

*Walks into high pressured boardroom meeting with clients, pulls out latest Alienware 3 inch thick brick with glowing ports, vents and alien logo*

*The beast lands on the highly polished table with a thud and a crack. Room goes quiet. Tumbleweed*

'Yes that's right people, it has the GTX1080!'

*Smiles smugly and begins speaking into his microphone so the clients can hear him over the mighty drone of the fans kicking in*

And that was that dear reader, he never worked again.

Funny, but not at all "real world". I'm in board meetings with execs all the time for my job. Some actually have had Alienware laptops (not most, just a few.) They are still there (the exec ... not sure about the laptops.)

In fact, I've seen more Alienware (3 or 4 over the years,) Dell Precisions, and Lenovo Thinkpads, then any Apple ones (a single MacBook Air that I saw back in 2010, and my personal 2008 MacBook Pro ... total of 2.)

Point is, not a single exec that I meet with cares one bit about the looks of a laptop. In fact, most of them prefer to just eschew technology altogether and do business over lunch, playing golf, or on the phone, and say "screw email, let's let the salespeople and lawyers deal with that." For those that even bother to use a laptop, it's usually a device that's quite "long in the tooth".

 

[jerryk]

While I agree it might not make that much difference, you just added what, another $300+ ? to the cost of that XPS 15 by installing a 960. Given the argument against the MBP is the cost it seems a strange thing to do.

I only bring this up to show that you can upgrade the XPS, unlike a Macbook pro, not to suggest you should over need to to get great performance from the XPS.

I have a 1.5GB SSD in my 2015 15" rMBP and tried a friend's 2016 15" MBP. They was not really any change in disk speed when doing tasks like file encoding, compiling, etc. There was a minor change in file copying, but it was not much even with 4 GB video files.

Based on this I see the only reason to upgrade from a 1.5GB/sec SSD to a 3.0GB/sec is to claim you have the fastest drive.

 

[wchigo]

My only comment is that one can't just look at the device itself, but what's needed to really use it. So if you're going to be comparing the new MBP against any other machine, also consider the costs of the cables/dongles needed. I'm not slamming Apple specifically, but the reality is for some that the cost didn't just end with the purchase of their device. To use it with existing hardware, etc - in the same manner they used their computer before, there were additional expenses.

So I bought the Apple USB-C to USB Adapter when I bought my 2015 12" MacBook, at which point it cost around $19 USD. This year I picked up the USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter (the one with HDMI) after Apple dropped the price to go along with my 2016 13" non-TB MBP, which cost around $49 USD. So that's another $70 USD in cables and adapters that I needed to buy to go along with my laptop. Granted, I'm all on board with the folks who criticize Apple for not, at the very least, including the USB-C to USB Adapter in the box to cushion the blow, but another 70 bucks on top of a laptop that costs thousands of dollars just feels like a drop in the bucket...

 

[AdonisSMU]

*Walks into high pressured boardroom meeting with clients, pulls out latest Alienware 3 inch thick brick with glowing ports, vents and alien logo*

*The beast lands on the highly polished table with a thud and a crack. Room goes quiet. Tumbleweed*

'Yes that's right people, it has the GTX1080!'

*Smiles smugly and begins speaking into his microphone so the clients can hear him over the mighty drone of the fans kicking in*

And that was that dear reader, he never worked again.

Sounds like a guy I used to work with.

 

[argentum47]

Underpowered absolutely? No. They are good enough machines for most 'Pro' people out there.
Underpowered relatively? Hell yes.
That's what happens when you jack up the price by $500 on an essentially the same spec'd product (and add a TouchBar which doesn't add power).

 

[inhalexhale1]

So I bought the Apple USB-C to USB Adapter when I bought my 2015 12" MacBook, at which point it cost around $19 USD. This year I picked up the USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter (the one with HDMI) after Apple dropped the price to go along with my 2016 13" non-TB MBP, which cost around $49 USD. So that's another $70 USD in cables and adapters that I needed to buy to go along with my laptop. Granted, I'm all on board with the folks who criticize Apple for not, at the very least, including the USB-C to USB Adapter in the box to cushion the blow, but another 70 bucks on top of a laptop that costs thousands of dollars just feels like a drop in the bucket...

I really believe if they just tossed in that one dongle, that covers many if he missing ports, all the complaining would have never gone this far.

 

[StayPuft]

*Walks into high pressured boardroom meeting with clients, pulls out latest Alienware 3 inch thick brick with glowing ports, vents and alien logo*

*The beast lands on the highly polished table with a thud and a crack. Room goes quiet. Tumbleweed*

'Yes that's right people, it has the GTX1080!'

*Smiles smugly and begins speaking into his microphone so the clients can hear him over the mighty drone of the fans kicking in*

And that was that dear reader, he never worked again.

Jokes aside, the Razer Blade Pro with the GTX 1080 is .8 inches, not 3. It is a big laptop at 17" (there used to be a 17" MacBook Pro that was bigger at .98 inches), but your exaggeration is ridiculous. And then there's the 14" Razer Blade which is .7" and 4 pounds ... hardly a table breaker ... and it has a GTX 1060.

And more importantly, nobody is going to give a flying crap what your laptop is in a meeting.

Also, MacBook Pros, including the new ones, can get quite loud when the fans kick in. I appreciate the constant attempts to bash anything not Apple, but many of these bashings aren't grounded in reality. There are also plenty of classy looking Windows laptops that aren't meant for gaming and have a comparable GPU to the new MBP, which honestly doesn't take much considering it's in the 960+ range of GPUs. There are also absurdly thin Windows laptops if that's your thing.

 

[AdonisSMU]

congratulations for missing the entire point /golf clap.

yes there are people that buy Alienware that laugh at you too mate make jokes about Starbucks and fashion accessories......dont let that smugness wear off

So what. I don't care what people think about me using my MacBook Pro at Starbucks or at my gym or wherever. Let them laugh. I don't feel bad at all. A guy I used to work with laughed at all the rest of us for using our MBPs. He's now looking for work after going through 3 jobs in less than 6 months. He'd make fun of us but he was the one with all the network issues and problems.

 

[wchigo]

I really believe if they just tossed in that one dongle, that covers many if he missing ports, all the complaining would have never gone this far.

Agreed. For that matter, I think it would do good for people's perception of Apple to just make the price drop on the USB-C accessories permanent instead of just through the end of this year. I suppose there isn't really a need since Apple can sell practically anything at any price (really? A book with pictures of your products for $200?) but if that's the case why even drop the price in the first place?