Concerned about lag on the Retina Pro? Taking requests!

[TheMacBookPro]

Sorry but concluding that the rMBP is a decent performer is plain wrong. We're developers and have been using the rMBP for a week and it's brutal. Every UI event is slow. It's choppy and unacceptable. We're running the latest DP of Mountain Lion.

Window redraws, swiping into Dashboard, bringing up the Dock, maximizing windows, etc. All slow and choppy.

This is a real issue. Buyer and Developer beware.

Concluding that every single rMBP is not a decent performer is what's plain wrong. Concluding that your rMBP is not a decent performer would be more accurate.

I'm not sure if you've even watched the few videos I've uploaded but that pretty clearly shows that 'every UI event is slow' is an inaccurate conclusion, at least in my case.

 

[wankey]

Sorry but concluding that the rMBP is a decent performer is plain wrong. We're developers and have been using the rMBP for a week and it's brutal. Every UI event is slow. It's choppy and unacceptable. We're running the latest DP of Mountain Lion.

Window redraws, swiping into Dashboard, bringing up the Dock, maximizing windows, etc. All slow and choppy.

This is a real issue. Buyer and Developer beware.

Nothing wrong here, problem with either you or your computer. I'm a web developer.

I think you have to install a completely fresh copy of mountain lion to get a better result

 

[freudling]

Nothing wrong here, problem with either you or your computer. I'm a web developer.

I think you have to install a completely fresh copy of mountain lion to get a better result

We've got three: one running Lion and 2 others running Mountain Lion. All are the same. I don't actually believe that your performance is good. The Anandtech article refers. There's also a host of others in this forum complaining about performance.

Examples:

Oh it's very noticeable to someone who's owned 5 different unibody MacBooks and Airs since 2008. This one is the laggiest of them all. My 4 previous MacBooks were super smooth. Either people just aren't bothered by it, or they're comparing it against a 2008 macbook air.

and

And it was just too herky-jerky for me. I guess I've been spoiled by the smooth scrolling of the MBA (2012). It was simply no contest.

Yes yes, I know, what for improvements in Mountain Lion. That's fine, I get that, and I'll wait and see. But since I'm running the latest DP4 and seeing how bad the performance is, I'm not holding my breath. But I do pray it gets better, else I'll have another Rev. 1 MacBook Air on my hands.

 

[TheMacBookPro]

We've got three: one running Lion and 2 others running Mountain Lion. All are the same. I don't actually believe that your performance is good. The Anandtech article refers. There's also a host of others in this forum complaining about performance.

Yes yes, I know, what for improvements in Mountain Lion. That's fine, I get that, and I'll wait and see. But since I'm running the latest DP4 and seeing how bad the performance is, I'm not holding my breath. But I do pray it gets better, else I'll have another Rev. 1 MacBook Air on my hands.

Lion is known to be unoptimized for the Retina so that's irrelevant.

As for you not believing others when they say they are not having performance issues on ML, I'd like to ask: have you actually watched the videos I linked to in this thread? They were uploaded were to disprove people exactly like you who claim that everybody is having performance issues.

Normally I would just link you to this thread so you'll see that not everybody's Retina Pro is laggy, but since you're already here I don't know what to say.

 

[chituan]

I know that some of you are still on the fence, wondering about the lag issue that's been so widely reported on this forum and whether or not it will be fixed by Mountain Lion.

Well, I'll be uploading some videos to alleviate some of the worries. Links will be added below as I upload new videos:





If there's anything specific you'd like me to demonstrate, I can try to take a video of whatever it is you want.

I'm running Mountain Lion DP4 with all the updates applied on a 2.6GHz/16GB RAM Retina MacBook Pro and web page demonstrations will be done in Safari. I will not be installing Chrome due to the reports of it causing crashes.

Cheers,

Thanks for the 1200p videos !
For 1200p, The general UI seems to be smoother when discrete GPU is enabled. I am wondering about the performance of Safari when discrete GPU is enabled ? is it any smoother or still the same as with integrated GPU ?

 

[TheMacBookPro]

Thanks for the 1200p videos !
For 1200p, The general UI seems to be smoother when discrete GPU is enabled. I am wondering about the performance of Safari when discrete GPU is enabled ? is it any smoother or still the same as with integrated GPU ?

It does seem to be slightly smoother with the discrete GPU activated.

 

[Feed Me]

Can we see google earth performance please?

My 2007 stutters like mad with Google Earth, and I'd be interested to see if there's any improvement.

 

[TheMacBookPro]

Can we see google earth performance please?

My 2007 stutters like mad with Google Earth, and I'd be interested to see if there's any improvement.

Good idea. Downloading as I type. (I hope you weren't being sarcastic, because we do actually appear to be in agreement that it's a good idea to try Google Earth )

I'll be showing it on the Best for Retina resolution.

 

[Office Hours]

well according to the front page of the site the retina display is pushing the intel 4000 and the nvidia 650 it also mentions that any graphics card would have a hard time driving the display i think this is a snafu on apples part the graphics tech is has not caught up to the retina screen tech yet

https://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/2...shes-the-limits-of-its-graphics-capabilities/

Yet the A5X can drive a 2048x1536 display? That's less poweful than a netbook class Atom + ION chip.

 

[blow45]

Could you at some point post some videos on any of the larger text display settings. I am interested to see both the clarity of the text as well as the fluidness of the interface. Thanks.

 

[01mggt]

I still think it will be fixed via software. Let's honestly think about this, this rMBP can run so many current games at max settings with awesome performance. I hardly think tat OS X should be creating that much demand on the hardware. I am sure once the software is optimized better this will no longer be an issue. I highly doubt scrolling facebook smoothly is over taxing the hardware when this thing can run Diablo 3 and skyrim at max settings.

 

[pandamonia]

Sorry but concluding that the rMBP is a decent performer is plain wrong. We're developers and have been using the rMBP for a week and it's brutal. Every UI event is slow. It's choppy and unacceptable. We're running the latest DP of Mountain Lion.

Window redraws, swiping into Dashboard, bringing up the Dock, maximizing windows, etc. All slow and choppy.

This is a real issue. Buyer and Developer beware.

As a developer you must not be a very good one. Since what your describing is nothing like the video evidence of smooth scrolling and UI that others are able to show. Including my own experience in the Mac store with one.

I had a dodgy version of Lion on my MBP after upgrade and all it took was a nice clean install to fix everything. (2010 model)

As a developer you should have at least half a brain to work out what is causing your problems. As it goes a bad workman always blames his tools.

Your either a troll or an idiot if what you claim is true and you really are a "developer"

 

[TheMacBookPro]

Original post updated with link to video demonstrating a Flash video, two news websites and Google Earth.

As noted in that video's description, the 650M was enabled for the entire video as I did not realize Google Earth had enabled it until I had already made the video.

I have just done the same test again using the HD4000 but did not record it. The Flash video and two news websites were as smooth as it was with the 650M on, but Google Earth was noticeably laggy. You will likely want to enable the 650M (which it does automatically) if you plan on using Google Earth.

 

[TibookAktive]

As a developer you must not be a very good one. Since what your describing is nothing like the video evidence of smooth scrolling and UI that others are able to show. Including my own experience in the Mac store with one.

I had a dodgy version of Lion on my MBP after upgrade and all it took was a nice clean install to fix everything. (2010 model)

As a developer you should have at least half a brain to work out what is causing your problems. As it goes a bad workman always blames his tools.

Your either a troll or an idiot if what you claim is true and you really are a "developer"

To state my position upfront, I have not noticed any perceivable (or at least annoying enough) lag on my 2.7/16/512 and Lion (not ML) installation, but I'm not sure its very constructive to any debate to call someone an idiot or a troll because they take a different view to you/OP... maybe I'm getting old but just getting tired of everyone not being a bit more civil to one another

 

[PVisitors]

Is there anyway you can get the FPS counter which Anandtech used for his review? I think it was called Quartz. Not entirely sure though, someone else in this thread can confirm that and if it possible for anybody to download? Obviously if possible I/we wouldn't need to see another video, but it would be nice to put a FPS next to the scrolling performance already seen in your videos. Just for the sake of clarity and reconciliation with the Anandtech review.

Was just wondering as I think this lag is entirely subjective after reading a post in another thread. Some people can't play games with a FPS of 25-30, whereas others (including myself) find 25-30fps playable, and in fact 30fps I find very smooth. If we assume that web scrolling on the MBPR is 20-30fps then I would imagine it would look fine and acceptable for people like me. However for the people who somehow find 30fps really choppy/laggy then naturally it isn't going to look good.

The problem I have the Anandtech review is that it's all well and good saying "yeah it only scrolls at x FPS" but that means nothing to me until I can actually see video performance of that FPS, or witness it first hand.

Final point to the OP. How bad was the scrolling on lion? Was it so bad to the extent that even normal scrolling as you would read the page was laggy?

Edit: Just reading the review, Anand mentions that scrolling pegs one core at 100%, surely the lag would be non existent and we would see circa 50FPS like the cMBP if Safari or any other browser was to allow hyperthreading/allow for scaling to be done over more than one core.

 

[TheMacBookPro]

I don't want this thread to descend into an argument about who's right or wrong and whether or not it actually lags on ML- the videos I've posted in the first post should be enough for you to decide.

freudling, I don't want to sound rude or anything, but based on your assertions that 'every UI event is slow', it looks like you have not even read through the thread or watched the videos I uploaded. The purpose of this thread was to disprove people just like you, who make claims of lag across all rMBPs without the proof to back it up.

Would it be safe to say that you merely saw the words 'retina' and 'lag' then posted without actually reading anything? Please feel free to start a new thread in the same vein as this one, but do not hijack my thread.

----------

Is there anyway you can get the FPS counter which Anandtech used for his review? I think it was called Quartz. Not entirely sure though, someone else in this thread can confirm that and if it possible for anybody to download? Obviously if possible I/we wouldn't need to see another video, but it would be nice to put a FPS next to the scrolling performance already seen in your videos. Just for the sake of clarity and reconciliation with the Anandtech review.

QuartzDebug I believe? If someone can tell me how large it is and how much space it takes up, I'll consider installing it, but I really don't want to have to install unnecessary (to me) software.

Was just wondering as I think this lag is entirely subjective after reading a post in another thread. Some people can't play games with a FPS of 25-30, whereas others (including myself) find 25-30fps playable, and in fact 30fps I find very smooth. If we assume that web scrolling on the MBPR is 20-30fps then I would imagine it would look fine and acceptable for people like me. However for the people who somehow find 30fps really choppy/laggy then naturally it isn't going to look good.

That is exactly why I uploaded the videos- so people can form their own opinion. While a 30fps video is not the most accurate representation, it's still a lot better than just text.

Final point to the OP. How bad was the scrolling on lion? Was it so bad to the extent that even normal scrolling as you would read the page was laggy?

I would love to tell you, but my laptop was delivered without an OS installed so I was not able to try it out. Read about my ordeal here.

 

[Feed Me]

QuartzDebug I believe? If someone can tell me how large it is and how much space it takes up, I'll consider installing it, but I really don't want to have to install unnecessary (to me)

I believe it's a part of Xcode's tools.
It's a free download, but it's several gigs large.

PS: thanks for the google earth video!

 

[TheMacBookPro]

I believe it's a part of Xcode's tools.
It's a free download, but it's several gigs large.

Ah okay, thanks. Sorry but I can't download that, it'll take way too much time. My internet connection is slow as it is, I don't need another thing dragging it down!

PS: thanks for the google earth video!

No problem, glad I was able to help. You'll need the 650M on for it to run smoothly.

 

[pandamonia]

To state my position upfront, I have not noticed any perceivable (or at least annoying enough) lag on my 2.7/16/512 and Lion (not ML) installation, but I'm not sure its very constructive to any debate to call someone an idiot or a troll because they take a different view to you/OP... maybe I'm getting old but just getting tired of everyone not being a bit more civil to one another

It think its worse to come on a forum and tell everyone "Beware" of the new rMBP for issues that are clearly different from the OP's experience.

He also uses his "developer" status as a way to increase his influence and improve his credibility when talking about such things.

He claims just about everything in the rMBP doesnt work as advertised which is clearly his problem with his machine.

Not to mention there is about 100 official reviews of this rMBP live on the web and none of them mention any of the things he claims. Even Anandtech says the performance hit he experienced was at the scaled resolution of 1900x1200.

 

[TheMacBookPro]

Could you at some point post some videos on any of the larger text display settings. I am interested to see both the clarity of the text as well as the fluidness of the interface. Thanks.

Sorry, it looks like I've accidentally missed your post! I've received a request to make a video on the native 2880 resolution, so I'll do your request in the same video. Is there anything in particular you'd like to see?

 

[chituan]

It would be really helpful if you can video the Chrome Dev version with GPU accelerated as instructed in this thread

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1394728/

There is a also a built-in fps counter for Chrome so there is no need for Quartz debug, which can be enabled by going to chrome://flags (same place to enable GPU acceleration).

Thanks alot !!!

 

[theSeb]

Quartz Debug is part of a dmg called Graphic Tools for Xcode - March 2012, which is 136 MB.

It does not require the full download and install of Xcode to run since it's a standalone application.

If you register for a free developer account, then you can download it.
http://developer.apple.com/downloads/index.action?name=for Xcode -

For the speedometer view, go into the menu bar --> Window --> Frameter

Make sure to right click on the icon in the dock and tick
Show Framemeter History
Show Numerical FPS in Framemeter History

 

[TheMacBookPro]

It would be really helpful if you can video the Chrome Dev version with GPU accelerated as instructed in this thread

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1394728/

There is a also a built-in fps counter for Chrome so there is no need for Quartz debug, which can be enabled by going to chrome://flags (same place to enable GPU acceleration).

Thanks alot !!!

Does that version fix the crashing issue?

Quartz Debug is part of a dmg called Graphic Tools for Xcode - March 2012, which is 136 MB.

It does not require the full download and install of Xcode to run since it's a standalone application.

If you register for a free developer account, then you can download it.
http://developer.apple.com/downloads/index.action?name=for Xcode -

For the speedometer view, go into the menu bar --> Window --> Frameter

Make sure to right click on the icon in the dock and tick
Show Framemeter History
Show Numerical FPS in Framemeter History

Thanks for the tip! Downloading it right now.

 

[Randomoneh]

Typing a small request... just a minute.

Imageshack.us won't let me upload it there so I had to upload it to Mediafire.

Take a look at this image (2880x1800) of pebbles. There are two images At what distance you can't tell the difference in quality of two sides?

Look it at full resolution (2880x1800), no extra zooming, full screen.

Here.


Thank you very, very much.

 

[b0blndsy]

How about using the rMBP to perform graphics, video editing and animation via Adobe applications or FCP & Motion? Would like to see them in action. Thank you for taking the time to do this.