'Constant Negativity' From Pro Users Led Apple to Develop Modular Mac Pro, Which May Not Ship Until 2019

[groove-agent]

I liked the idea of the touch bar, although if you're a touch-typer it would cause you to look away from your screen, which isn't ideal.

I think given the already stupidly expensive price of the MBP, I think it was one superfluous feature that people could cut out to save money.

$3000 is a lot of money to spend on a pro laptop that really doesn't have pro hardware IMO. I have the money, but I just can't justify spending it on Apple when the competition has better ( and user replaceable) hardware for less money and proper ports.

You'd think the streamlining of the ports, removed illuminated Apple logo on the back, last year's hardware would LOWER the price.

The touchy bar was DOA .
Or did I miss the sarcasm ?

 

[Naimfan]

The Mac Pro is one of those things that is either grossly overpriced or poorly configured for the majority of users that might be interested.

And, thus, a failure.

What people seem to forget is that the cheese grater was a complete failure! Going back to that design will not solve the number one problem with the Mac Pro which is the lack of decent sales.

Wrong. The "cheese grater" was a substantially better design than the trash can. Apple's failure was twofold: Not modernizing it along the way; and, not keeping it competitive price-wise.

Actually a lot of the customers complaining where in fact wrong. The fact that the nMP wasn't designed for them has nothing to do with the fact that it is a well designed pro computer designed for pros that would be using it on their desktops.

First, blaming the customer is exactly wrong. Apple failed to provide a Mac Pro that met the needs of those who needed a modernized Mac Pro, and then essentially wrote off that entire segment of the market. Tragic when one realizes that it was precisely that written off market which allowed for Apple to become what it is today.

Second, you're contradicting yourself. Above you argue that the trash can was a failure (grossly overpriced or poorly configured), and yet here you're claiming that it was a well-designed pro computer for use on a desktop. The trash can was a failure. An interesting one, perhaps, but a failure nonetheless.

Your CPU should not be in the same box as your storage subsystem. It is just poor engineering in my opinion bulk storage belongs in its own box.

(Emphasis added.)

Kindly square that with using a desktop on your desk? Extending your "opinion," the graphics, RAM, I/O, etc., shouldn't be in the same box either. Without internal storage, where, exactly, do you propose to hold the OS? Apps? Work files? Etc.

It does not appear as if you grasp the broader perspective.

 

[itsamacthing]

If Apple finally starts making powerful and useful Macs again, that are updated in a responsible and thoughtful way, I'll see Apple again in a better light and Apple will be doing the right thing thing moving forward with a balanced portfolio that has something for all of us.

 

[grad]

BTW, try buying a 72TB storage without using the "outdated" spinning drives, and without committing a bank robbery first to be able to afford it ;-)

If I am buying and using 72TB storage I would surely prefer not to have it in the same case as my CPU or the GPU.

 

[MacUserHere]

I've been quiet for sometime reading what Apple should do and not do with the current MacPro. The "cheese grater" design was genius! The G5 and Intel processors thrived in that box, it added expansion and the ability to really do some great work. Here's the rub on that unit: Sometimes those fans would really run high and create unnecessary noise. This causes concern for people in the audio industry, especially recording rooms. The "cheese grater" case is heavy, bulky and some Pro users do not ever crack the case to add enhancements but maybe for RAM.

So this begs the question: What is a Pro user?

I see both powerful tower config and a powerful compact config living in the same space. For me, I rarely need to crack open the case, add additional video cards or add a fiber network card. What I do need is something that is very powerful and will lsat me 5 - 6 years of trouble free work.

I have 18 MacPro units in my classroom, they have performed well and would even seriously consider one for home to replace my aging iMac.

Yet I'm waiting on WWDC17 and October when the alleged iMac Pro will be introduced. In the meantime, I hope Apple is listening to customers. While some like portability, others need powerful, useful desktops. Some want open expandability while others want a lot of power packed into another package. Apple cannot continue with their current iMac, MacMini and MacPro units. They have reached the point where their customer base is largely broad.

To that end, I'd keep the iMac and create a 21:9 5K AR system for those who want a fast large screen system. The current MacPro design could be extended to a "Mini" design. After all I'm sure Apple has many dollars invested into that design. Then make the top tier MacPro truly a workhorse the allows the hood to be opened and expanded.

Just a few thoughts...but overall I am torn on Apple right now.

 

[DanBig]

It's not really even about the Touch bar. It's about having the ports pros need (no usb, no hdmi, no ethernet, no sd card slot), it's about having the expansion pros need (16GB max *AND* not upgradable?), and it's about having the nice touches that lower end laptops lack (mag safe, backlit keyboard, etc).

Oh so true!! Give me the Ports, Expandable RAM & storage, and not forget the MagSafe so I don't kill my system when I trip on the power cord! Down with Dongles! Pro's don't want to fight with them.

Yes USB-C is the future! And I want it too! But, I need to get there before you drop the ports. Its like this we don't build the roof first when building houses do we? We build a foundation then the house and then the roof!

Again: Function then Form!
[doublepost=1491671357][/doublepost]

I've been quiet for sometime reading what Apple should do and not do with the current MacPro. The "cheese grater" design was genius! The G5 and Intel processors thrived in that box, it added expansion and the ability to really do some great work. Here's the rub on that unit: Sometimes those fans would really run high and create unnecessary noise. This causes concern for people in the audio industry, especially recording rooms. The "cheese grater" case is heavy, bulky and some Pro users do not ever crack the case to add enhancements but maybe for RAM.

So this begs the question: What is a Pro user?

I see both powerful tower config and a powerful compact config living in the same space. For me, I rarely need to crack open the case, add additional video cards or add a fiber network card. What I do need is something that is very powerful and will lsat me 5 - 6 years of trouble free work.

I have 18 MacPro units in my classroom, they have performed well and would even seriously consider one for home to replace my aging iMac.

Yet I'm waiting on WWDC17 and October when the alleged iMac Pro will be introduced. In the meantime, I hope Apple is listening to customers. While some like portability, others need powerful, useful desktops. Some want open expandability while others want a lot of power packed into another package. Apple cannot continue with their current iMac, MacMini and MacPro units. They have reached the point where their customer base is largely broad.

To that end, I'd keep the iMac and create a 21:9 5K AR system for those who want a fast large screen system. The current MacPro design could be extended to a "Mini" design. After all I'm sure Apple has many dollars invested into that design. Then make the top tier MacPro truly a workhorse the allows the hood to be opened and expanded.

Just a few thoughts...but overall I am torn on Apple right now.

You've hit it on the nail! Apple's base has gotten broader, the Pro market is no different.

We like our Trashcan's as they met our needs when we bought them. But clearly the trashcan's inability to grow is holding it back (and us). We also use a 2012 grater which we have upgraded to the extreme as we need a beefier system for some production work. Each meets a need.

 

[rocknblogger]

I don't think you realize how important the small but vocal group of professionals are. If all pros move to Windows there's going to be trickle down effect. It may start slowly but sure enough it will have an effect on what relatives and friends of those pros start buying. It's a known fact that a dissatisfied customer will tell a lot more people, who will tell more people (and so on) of their dissatisfaction than a satisfied customer. Eventually that will have an effect on sales across all product lines

The cool-aid diet is unwise. The very phrase, "Emoji bar" is evidence enough that you don't own one of these machines, or understand the functionality of the touch bar. Just another glory-seeking troll. God, I'm sick of the pretentious, condescending, judgmental trolls. Go back to Microsoft or Linux or whatever self righteous platform strokes your ego.

I'm not a high-end Pro user. It's not underpowered for my needs and professional usage. I use MacOS, not Windows in my work environment, and so YES, the current MacBook pros are wonderful for my (and many other people's) useage scanarios.

I know that you assume that everyone in the world operates according to your paradigm. But step back from the narcissistic perspective for just a second and realize - not everyone is just like you.

I'm not someone who does 4K video editing on the go for a living. People in high-end professions need a Pro machine that exceeds the capabilities of the current Apple "Pro" lineup. But these people are not the majority of users. The majority are folks like me, who need mid-level power on a well-constructed machine with good battery life. The current lineup supplies that well, and so provides ample power for what we need. We're plenty happy with Apple's current offerings.

Those in the genuinely Pro professions need more.

That's it. For many, myself included, the current offerings are more than adequate. For those who need more, Apple is finally recognizing the need to step up.

No need to be pretentious. Buy a Windows machine if you're convinced that Apple is a bad value for *anyone* and *everyone*. Why are you wasting your time on a Mac forum when you see no value in Macs? Whatever. Get a life.

so in other words you have no need for a pro computer. Sounds like an iPad would be enough for you. I think you should stop drinking the coolaid and realize that this MacBook Pro is not sufficient for a segment of pro users. Just because it's okay for you does not mean it's okay for everyone else. Talk about pretentious

 

[seveej]

You make a great many very good points, but there's one thing I thought to elaborate a bit more on...

What people seem to forget is that the cheese grater was a complete failure! Going back to that design will not solve the number one problem with the Mac Pro which is the lack of decent sales. The nMP was a result of flagging sales of the oMP. Sadly though Apple created a machine that would actually lower sales volumes even more. In either case the problem is that the entry bar was too high for either model to generate viable sales, sales that would justify a strong development program.

I'm really surprised that Apple doesn't understand that you can't expect high volumes out of a machine that costs considerably more than a run of the mill desktop. Even HP is smarter than that and has a variety of configurations for machines built on their pro chassis.

I have to disagree somewhat here. If we take the assumption that for any point in time and for any market segment, there is a natural level of Apple's market share, then any success is one which in the medium term aids in raising market share, while any failure is one which lowers market share.

Now, admittedly I do not have any hard numbers to support this argument, but I'd contend that:
• For the entire life of the cMP we can not state that the cMP was a success, but we can also state that
• As Updates became more infrequent (from 2010 onward) the cMP was less and less successful, while
• the nMP was an utter disaster

How can I say this, when I do not have numbers? A few points:
- Just look at the Mac Pro subforum
- I live in an -store free country, and I have contacts with most resellers. Luckily these are more loose-tongued than -stores. The resounding judgment from my contacts was that sales of the nMP were less than a tenth of previous cMP sales.

So let's just summarise this as: vigorously developing the cMP (post 2010) would have led to better sales than the nMP did. Therefore, Apple's first step should be to map out the properties which made the cMP comparatively more attractive, and make sure to include those (or their modern equivalents) in core planning...

RGDS,

 

[ryannel2003]

Interesting this comes out now as not even two weeks ago they sent me a survey asking how I liked my new MacBook Pro. I told them I loved the machine and the quality was fantastic but the price was too high. Guarantee the next non-touch Pro will drop to $1299 and the touch bar model around $1499 or $1599.

 

[DanBig]

Even so, there really wasn't a significant GPU upgrade out there until Pascal and the MP was roughly 3 years old by then, form factor aside.

Very true! That was my point. We (and still do) got our moneys worth out of our systems.

It's really what are we going to get to replace them? Our needs have grown, Apple didn't :-{

We need more than a statement, we need an outline soon and then a demo unit so we have proof Apple is on target. It shouldn't take that long to have a outline framework made public.

 

[peter2]

If I am buying and using 72TB storage I would surely prefer not to have it in the same case as my CPU or the GPU.

Why? Recently it can be just 6 drives (helium-filled, hence not even running very hot). The old Mac Pro has plenty of thermal reserves for that anyway. Have 2 of those at home and we have one in the server room at work. Why should I scatter around more boxes (and separately solve network connectivity, UPS, etc.) if I don't need to?

 

[9081094]

What really worries me is this:

https://petapixel.com/2017/04/08/5660-mac-pro-crushed-photoshop-test-1530-pc-amd-ryzen/

Apple should respond. This is really outrageous. How low can Apple go?

 

[Greymacuser]

So telling Apple the truth is seen s "constant negativity" by their staff. My, what special snowflakes they have become.
You wouldn't have received so much vitriol if you had treated 20% of your customer base with respect, rather than over pricing them into bankruptcy with out of date gear.
Am I happy that desktops are getting at least some attention by Apple? Yes.
Do I think anything really useful of great will come of it at a REAL affordable price with a non-draconian architecture that hamstrings customizability or repairs? No. Sadly that ship has sailed years ago and all confidence in Apple's ability to "not be evil" evaporated long ago.

I hate to be negative about this. I really do. I do want to see a real computer from Apple that runs the great OS, but they've proven themselves to just be too up their own exhaust ports to give a damn about the user.

Maybe they will surprise us. Maybe they will actually make a computer that's affordable, competitive and can actually handle two things at once and doesn't send the fan into a meltdown due to horrible thermal management?
I'm not expecting that though.

 

[moderngamenewb]

Why not just make it an even 2020!

Because it takes Courage not to do so

 

[rtrutter]

What about that "pipeline" Mr. Cook has yapping all the time? The pipeline must be filled with dung.

Ladies and Gentlemen, There is no pipeline. Tim has been saying the same thing for the last 4 years. The last 2 years, he said Apple has some "exciting" things planned but nothing really occurred. The only thing "new" was the Apple Watch. Wow, the computer updates were minimal as well as the iPhones. Tim also ended the life of the iPod by saying the parts were not available. Quite frankly, Tim is causing the Mac demise. He only cares about the iPad, iPhone and Apple Watch... the iOS devices. He is very dangerous to the Mac and Apple should just quit making Macs and sell the Mac operating system for everyone to use. Most Mac users love the OS and would just buy a PC and install the macOS. Tim will have his wish... the death of the Mac.

 

[9081094]

What about that "pipeline" Mr. Cook has yapping all the time? The pipeline must be filled with dung.

What's coming out from this pipeline the last four years have failed to impress me. I remember Tim Cook told in an interview last year that the Mac was very important to Apple as did the creative users. He said: expect to see more coming. But if that's before the end of 2018 and they just told they've begun developing...
I can't believe a company as big as Apple not already developing a successor to the products just released. All technology companies are working on the next big thing. Apple did nothing for four years
What are they thinking?

 

[haydn!]

I can't believe a company as big as Apple not already developing a successor to the products just released. All technology companies are working on the next big thing. Apple did nothing for four years What are they thinking?

Apple are changing approach, essentially starting again with the Mac Pro. There has been some indication Apple have actually been looking at this for about a year - testing a few approaches - and the only recently made a decision to go modular, is meant to apply to the decision on which option to take. So, we're probably 6-12 months into the product development cycle already.

For it's other products, Apple have been working on the next versions of things. They've just been getting it wrong - and they appear to want to fix that. My guess is the iMac's were due out already - but the response to the MacBook Pro and realisation the Mac Pro needed a complete re-think - most likely led them to postpone that update so they could mix in some more 'pro' features.

Lets just hope Apple truly are serious about re-building that relationship and come out with some kick-ass products over the next 12 months. Only time will tell whether this is just pure marketing, or actual honesty and realisation.

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

What really worries me is this:

https://petapixel.com/2017/04/08/5660-mac-pro-crushed-photoshop-test-1530-pc-amd-ryzen/

Apple should respond. This is really outrageous. How low can Apple go?

Not much they can do now without spending a ton on money.

 

[apolloa]

What really worries me is this:

https://petapixel.com/2017/04/08/5660-mac-pro-crushed-photoshop-test-1530-pc-amd-ryzen/

Apple should respond. This is really outrageous. How low can Apple go?

Not really no, the Mac Pro is 4 years ish old now, and someone made a video showing the latest literally JUST released brand spanking new computer hardware can beat it....
That's called progression.

I see they also overclocked the Ryzen in that test too, pretty pointless test that. Not many professionals would overclocked their hardware.

 

[imicca]

I think they spoke about new Mac Pro because of MKBHD's video and the word of mouth (or internet hype machine).

 

[wilhoitm]

Not really no, the Mac Pro is 4 years ish old now, and someone made a video showing the latest literally JUST released brand spanking new computer hardware can beat it....
That's called progression.

I see they also overclocked the Ryzen in that test too, pretty pointless test that. Not many professionals would overclocked their hardware.

I agree totally, in that Photoshop test the 4 year old Mac Pro holds up pretty well again AMD's state of the art RYZEN 7 processor. However I would say using Photoshop is a bogus "Pro" performance test! Also, why is it not using the GPUs to begin with?

 

[MellowFuzz]

I've never understood why desktops like the Mac Mini or Mac Pro don't have a battery inside like an internal UPS.

 

[HVDynamo]

Think of it from our point of view: Apple stop interrupting our workflows with the Touch Bar. At least give us a choice with identical setups sans the touch bar.

Or they could have the best of both worlds and put keep the function keys and add the touch bar above it. It's not like there isn't room. Although I am not sure what they would put on it, then.

 

[Robstevo]

In terms of the MacBook Pro. I think some prosumers and apple fan boys who jumped on the itoy train find it hard to understand that before itoys, the MacBook PRO was designed for pros, hence the name.

The new MacBook Pro clearly isn't designed for pros. It lacks all the ports pros use day to day in the creative world (which is what I think the Mac is mainly for IMO.

It's a beautiful device, just wish they released it as a replacement for the airs, and have the actual PRO DEVICE slightly thicker to accommodate a better keyboard, more battery life, less touch Bar and more ports.

Although to be honest I'm moving the windows direction because all my professional software I use is windows based, and I can get a far more powerful machine for far cheaper and I won't be worried about Apple walking away from the mac like it seems to have been doing.

 

[Internaut]

2019? Sounds like the next-gen Mac Pro has been kicked into the long grass...