'Constant Negativity' From Pro Users Led Apple to Develop Modular Mac Pro, Which May Not Ship Until 2019

[Feenician]

yup. first machine with RJ-11 modem port, RJ-45 Ethernet port, 1/8 inch audio in, 1/8 inch audio out...
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that would be a start. that would be something. something that would take less than a year and would let us all get to work now.

The quality and reliability of macOS would be in the toilet if grey box builders were allowed to ship it. Part of the reason Macs work so well are the marriage of software and hardware and everyone knows that. The day Apple allows that (again) is the day you know they are done with the Mac.

 

[phrehdd]

I love the innovation out of the back end that Apple blathered on about that was supposed to excite everyone. All they did was innovate(paint) themselves into a corner and now must abandon the nMP. Perhaps the only "save" might be to create a Mac Mini "Pro" based on the normal multi-core i7, a decent video card that meets most user (and gamer) needs along with a card that hold up to perhaps 4 2.5" drives where the drives can be swapped out and of course allow for 32gigs or 64 gigs of RAM. The original Mac Mini might be made slightly smaller and be still the "Mini" as opposed to Mini Pro.

 

[thats all folks]

The quality and reliability of macOS would be in the toilet if grey box builders were allowed to ship it. Part of the reason Macs work so well are the marriage of software and hardware and everyone knows that. The day Apple allows that (again) is the day you know they are done with the Mac.

the comment I replied to was specifically about Apple built and branded systems. but we all know Apple doesn't actually manufacture anything. even the current "Apple" US made Mac Pro is made in a Foxconn built and run factory. we also know that that OS X and it's compatible software run on standard Intel based systems, the only real difference between an Apple branded systems and others, is driver support for the specific hardware used.

So let's say Apple want to get a "pro" grade workstation out quickly. a partnership with an existing manufacturer, say Supermicro, should have no problem getting a respectable machine into the supply chain within a few or four months. will it be achingly unique and singular? no, it will not. will it be a fully featured, extensible, high performance powerhouse? it very well could be. Apple could still design or spec the look and basic layout. And that would be a system very much in demand by those doing high end CG/graphics and image manipulation, scientific work, etc.

 

[Feenician]

the comment I replied to was specifically about Apple built and branded systems. but we all know Apple doesn't actually manufacture anything. even the current "Apple" US made Mac Pro is made in a Foxconn built and run factory. we also know that that OS X and it's compatible software run on standard Intel based systems, the only real difference between an Apple branded systems and others, is driver support for the specific hardware used.

So let's say Apple want to get a "pro" grade workstation out quickly. a partnership with an existing manufacturer, say Supermicro, should have no problem getting a respectable machine into the supply chain within a few or four months. will it be achingly unique and singular? no, it will not. will it be a fully featured, extensible, high performance powerhouse? it very well could be. Apple could still design or spec the look and basic layout. And that would be a system very much in demand by those doing high end CG/graphics and image manipulation, scientific work, etc.

Just like the LG monitor really worked out well for all involved...

At the point where Apple design the look and layout, that's an Apple product, manufactured by others and nothing has changed.

 

[Bradamante]

A "more modular Mac Pro"?

Sure, can't wait for Apple to fail with their version of Razer's Christine prototype.

 

[Abazigal]

A new post from Aboveavalon with regards to this topic.

https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2017/4/12/the-mac-is-turning-into-apples-achilles-heel

The product that helped save Apple from bankruptcy 20 years ago is now turning into a barrier that is preventing Apple from focusing on what comes next.

The Mac has become a major headache for Apple, and management is on the verge on going down the Mac rabbit hole, funneling an increasing amount of resources and attention into a product category that doesn't represent the future of personal computing. The risk is that Apple will be stuck with a $25B legacy business and corresponding user base that will threaten the company's increasingly ambitious product strategy.

Win some, lose some.

 

[Count Blah]

What a horrible article. In a momentary spasm of sanity, the author mentions that the content of 96% of Apple's customers are made by the other 4%, but then the two solutions are for MacOs to be replaced with iOS or for Macs to simply die on the vine.

Those two solutions don't match the 96:4::Consumer : producer problem Apple has. The author also acts as if addressing the Mac is going to drain all the resources out of the Mobile, which is ludicrous.

In fact, the author sounded a lot like most Apple apologists here, who couldn't be happier that Macs were #82 on the list of Apple's top 100 priorities, and ridiculed anyone who dared to complain about how atrophied Macs had become.

 

[jeremiah256]

What a horrible article. In a momentary spasm of sanity, the author mentions that the content of 96% of Apple's customers are made by the other 4%, but then the two solutions are for MacOs to be replaced with iOS or for Macs to simply die on the vine.

Those two solutions don't match the 96:4::Consumer : producer problem Apple has. The author also acts as if addressing the Mac is going to drain all the resources out of the Mobile, which is ludicrous.

In fact, the author sounded a lot like most Apple apologists here, who couldn't be happier that Macs were #82 on the list of Apple's top 100 priorities, and ridiculed anyone who dared to complain about how atrophied Macs had become.

Yeah, doesn't Apple's Mac division make enough profit to be a Fortune 500 business by itself? While some labor and some management might have to be redistributed, the Mac division should have access to all the funds for non-labor expenditures that they need.

 

[Obocop]

True, why do their resources seem so limited? Surely quality computers and iOS devices aren't mutually exclusive. If they're too stretched, they need to hire more talent.

 

[ZapNZs]

A new post from Aboveavalon with regards to this topic.

https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2017/4/12/the-mac-is-turning-into-apples-achilles-heel

I don't get it?

• Apple is unable to coordinate the logistics of managing multiple major initiatives? And that's an advantage?
• Apple cannot afford multiple R&D efforts, even when these efforts result in profit?
• Stable profits are not a stable source of income, even if that income persists through depression & a general market decrease?
• iOS device sales do not benefit from OS X sales, and Apple is showing huge concern in this area because the loss of the creative professional market would not have financial consequences beyond just that select group?
• We have begun entry into the post-iOS era?

 

[Abazigal]

Apple is unable to coordinate the logistics of managing multiple major initiatives? And that's an advantage?

It's both. The advantage is that if and when Apple needs to pivot away from the Mac, there is no department to resist this effort and the transition can be a smooth and effortless one. The disadvantage is also that if and when Apple needs to pivot away from the Mac, there is no one to resist this effort, especially if it turns out to be a bad idea in hindsight.

As of the moment, it's still too early to say if Apple's pivoting away from the Mac is for the better or worse, since everyone here is essentially speaking out of personal self-interest.

Apple cannot afford multiple R&D efforts, even when these efforts result in profit?

There's something known as opportunity cost. A profit in one area could still tie up valuable resources, time and manpower which means a greater loss for Apple if they are unable to work on a more profitable venture.

Stable profits are not a stable source of income, even if that income persists through depression & a general market decrease?

Again, opportunity costs. The Mac is profitable, but it's deemed a legacy system which has no place in this new world order that Apple is seeking to bring about.

iOS device sales do not benefit from OS X sales, and Apple is showing huge concern in this area because the loss of the creative professional market would not have financial consequences beyond just that select group?

Most people enter the Apple ecosystem via the iPhone (as a general rule of thumb, Apple sells 10 iPhones for every 2 iPads or 1 Mac sold), which then typically translates into sales of other related accessories and services. The number of people who buy a Mac and then proceed to get an iPhone as a result would be fairly small (relative to the other way round).

We have begun entry into the post-iOS era?

More like Apple thinks iOS is the future and for the moment at least, are willing to invest resources into making it a reality.

 

[hiddenmarkov]

Because instead of a tower it will be a modular assembly of sealed aluminium boxes filled with proprietary components to prevent users from upgrading their Mac Pro.

Apple are now run by accountants and their slouch towards mediocrity is inevitable.

Basically.

they want to keep their "it just works" going. this hard to do when instead of controlling what goes in you let free style reign. this is why I take "well windows is unstable" comments with grains of salt. Windows is an OS that can and does support a wide range of devices and configs. That it does this with a fair amount of success is amazing.

Where as apple OS engineers...have a real small list of devices to care about. How many video cards do we need to code for sir? Well we just EOL'd everything from year 20XX, so 20XX+1 to now. Got it sir.

For a fairer comparison I'd like to see how mac os would do under the same situations as windows does. Its like me saying want a truly great OS....go raspberry pi stuff. Started down this rabbit hole recently. Of course its a nice stable os so far as I have tinkered with it....it codes for pi's. Now series 3(b), they keep many components similar. And most add ons are pin based. Only way to mess this up is write bad python code (seems to be the main language to play with the side geek stuff) to work the new additions. That's all on the coder there. Not the OS.

 

[maflynn]

True, why do their resources seem so limited? Surely quality computers and iOS devices aren't mutually exclusive. If they're too stretched, they need to hire more talent.

Its less about stretched too thin, but rather their organization doesn't allow simultaneous high priority projects. If the iPhone is falling behind (and there's a story that it maybe), then Apple takes people from the mac team. So the Mac platform suffers a delay.

 

[nurmdog]

Apple executives this week made an unusual and surprising announcement, detailing the company's work on an entirely revamped high-end modular Mac Pro that's set to be released sometime after 2017.

No specific information on a potential release date was shared, but OSnews' Thom Holwerda has shared some tidbits heard from "people and sources who know their stuff," giving a little insight into just when we might see the revamped Mac Pro and why Apple decided to renew its focus on professional users.

Ahead of Apple's announcement, Holwerda says the Mac Pro was in limbo, and Apple wasn't sure what was going to happen to the machine.

Apparently, the negative response to the MacBook Pro with Touch Bar, which many complained was not oriented towards pro users, was a major factor. Apple saw a surge of orders for older MacBook Pros instead of the new model, and that, combined with the reaction to the LG 5K display and the "constant negativity" from professional users, led Apple to "double down on professional users."

The decision to move ahead with a modular Mac Pro replacement was made "in recent months" with development starting "only a few weeks ago," suggesting it's going to be a long wait.

Given a rough estimate of the length of time it normally takes to develop a project, it could be late 2018 or even 2019 before we see the machine.Aside from the Mac Pro, Holwerda also believes Apple is working on additional MacBook Pro models sans Touch Bar, and developing other features aimed at professionals, such as pairing the iPad Pro with a Mac so that it can be used as a Cintiq-style drawing tablet.

Apple hasn't shared a lot of detail on the new Mac Pro, but the promised modular design will allow professional users to keep it up to date with new hardware on a regular basis. Apple executives have said the machine will also be able to handle virtual reality software and high-end cinema editing, pointing towards support for higher-end single GPUs, and Apple also plans to ship the machine with an Apple-branded professional display.

Article Link: 'Constant Negativity' From Pro Users Led Apple to Develop Modular Mac Pro, Which May Not Ship Until 2019

I love the big black tube, it is a cool design. I think if the new MAC Pro is going to be modular they should make the MAC MINI tubular instead! Why not? It is great for cooling and still allows for minor upgrades, which fits right in to the formula of the Mini.

 

[TraderScooter]

I love the big black tube, it is a cool design. I think if the new MAC Pro is going to be modular they should make the MAC MINI tubular instead! Why not? It is great for cooling and still allows for minor upgrades, which fits right in to the formula of the Mini.

Personally I think it'd be too big to labeled as a "mini". I've got a 2013 nMP sitting on my desk at work and it's not really that small.

 

[Rico-Suave]

For the pro market Apple needs to publish a hardware spec and let other companies make the components. They can charge a few hundred bucks for macOS and just be done with it. F all of this nonsense. Apple no longer depends on complete control of this market segment for their survival like they did when Steve Jobs killed off the clones. It's too small of a market to even bother with anymore, and if they're not willing to commit resources to a small team of permanent engineers they need to just get out of the way. Spin a separate company off or allow cloning again. It's time. I say this as a sysadmin of an Apple shop that needs new pro machines.

Since they've also abandoned the enterprise market, Apple needs to officially support macOS running as a guest OS on non-Apple hardware under VMware ESXi. They can charge a few hundred bucks for a macOS enterprise license, or offer it as a freebee to customers for mobile device management.

Hobbyists are making Hackintoshes and there are ways to circumvent Apple's restrictions on VMware. Again — it's time. Apple just needs to get out of the way.

 

[JuBe]

Great they are listening!

But am I the only one who finds it hard to believe that a company that big, with that much money and all their resources is going to take that long?

I'm not expecting anything next month, but end of year or early 2017 would be acceptable.

But late 2018 or even after that....seems silly.

Then again, these are rumours so who knows right

I'm not an expert in such things, but I wouldn't be surprised if the hold-up is not the product design phase, but rather the factory and manufacturing tailoring.

 

[Ladybug]

I sincerely hope for all the professionals sake that Apple delivers and delivers big. My fears are as of late Apple is all about producing products with no upgrade paths after the sale. It would be a shame to wait 1+ more years for a computer only to find it loaded with proprietary parts that are all soldiered in leaving our Pro's without the means to add or update as needed. The fact that it's going to take so long leads me believe they will do just that. I hope I am wrong.

 

[BaltimoreMediaBlog]

This is what happens when you're too busy talking politics and world peace and forget you run an F*****G computer company!

 

[Abazigal]

This is what happens when you're too busy talking politics and world peace and forget you run an F*****G computer company!

There's a reason why the company is called "Apple" and not "Apple computers". Even if Apple weren't meddling with social issues, their attention would still be focused on the mobile aspect of things, and not their Macs.

 

[wallah]

There's something known as opportunity cost. A profit in one area could still tie up valuable resources, time and manpower which means a greater loss for Apple if they are unable to work on a more profitable venture.

Again, opportunity costs. The Mac is profitable, but it's deemed a legacy system which has no place in this new world order that Apple is seeking to bring about.

Most people enter the Apple ecosystem via the iPhone (as a general rule of thumb, Apple sells 10 iPhones for every 2 iPads or 1 Mac sold), which then typically translates into sales of other related accessories and services. The number of people who buy a Mac and then proceed to get an iPhone as a result would be fairly small (relative to the other way round).

More like Apple thinks iOS is the future and for the moment at least, are willing to invest resources into making it a reality.

These are very interesting ideas and I couldn't help explore the other side of them. Speaking of opportunity cost, imagine if Apple had continued with the cMP instead of veering into a dead end with Ive-obsessed form over function. Kept updating the internals instead of trashcanning a near-perfect, high quality and beautiful box?

Just bought my first '10 cMP quad and freshly installed Sierra. Runs like a dream and I am astounded at the design and quality of the machine. THIS is design - complex stuff reduced to simplicity. Key parts in modular bays that just click and slide out. Down to the processor that's on a tray, so in addition to sliding in a SSD, I'm upgrading the chip to a hexacore. It's that easy and I'm not a geek. If you can figure out how to buy a brush and the right kind of polish to spruce up your shoes instead of buying new ones, you can upgrade this Mac to a fantastic, modern machine (admittedly, I don't do any video work).

How many they could have sold over the years. Apple would have stayed king of the hill in high-end creative machines and sold in such volumes they could have been more affordable, and made a truck ton of cash. That's opportunity cost, and lost.

On another frequency, imagine a percentage of iPhone users (you pick the number) who decided to buy a Mac for the ecosystem, and there you have your (growing) Fortune company.

edit - watching this from phrehdd made me weep. Apple will never catch up on a horsepower/price basis. They could have been this, only cooler:

While this is not the promo video, it shows what looks like what Apple should have done when maturing the cheese grater.

edit - read review on techradar, cry more.

 

[jeremiah256]

As of the moment, it's still too early to say if Apple's pivoting away from the Mac is for the better or worse, since everyone here is essentially speaking out of personal self-interest.

It seems the power users have also made it in Apple's best interest.

Phill Schiller:
We want to reiterate that quite a while ago, a great matrix was drawn on the wall, with four quadrants in it. A very brilliant, clear view of what we should do. We want to make sure everyone understands that not only do we continue to believe in the Mac, but we believe in that product quadrant strategy.

We believe in filling every one of those boxes with great products, the best products available, for every one of those segments — so to the extent that anyone doubts whether we believe in that view anymore, they shouldn’t. We continue to believe in that, and we want to excel in every one of those quadrants.

 

[wallah]

I hope so in all honesty, the MBA is long over due to get the axe.

Only the screen, tho. I do not accept MacBook performance and wouldn't trade it for the Air's specs. Hopefully, like with fashion models, ever thinner is not better.

Everyone can do thin now. Seriously, what executive needs a thinner computer that runs more than 15 hours? Does Apple know that on the plane to China, you can charge in your seat now? We also need everyday utility. Computer ≠ phone.

 

[mrhick01]

I agree with all that you said, but think that the reasons you listed point to Tim being a poor CEO. Don't get me wrong, I think he has some good qualities, such as his charity work etc. But I want someone less wooden or robotic, especially as the CEO of Apple has to be so publicly visible. I want someone a little more rock n roll, who has passion, charisma and foresight. That would get me excited in this company again. As Steve Jobs put it so eloquently in that video on why Xerox failed, you need good product people running the company, making the decisions, not marketing people (nor supply chain people IMO). You want people who understand the needs of the market, can identify subtle differences between good and bad products, and who appreciate the skilled craftsmanship that goes into making truly great products.

Steve Jobs is dead. Too many people are punishing Tim Cook and criticizing him for not being Steve Jobs.
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Because Apple

Because anyone that has followed Apple for any length of time knows that, for better or worse, Apple will not slap some crap together, slap a label on it and get it to run MacOS. That isn't happening and will never happen under Jonathan Ive.

For better or worse, like or not, Apple hardware will be a highly engineered and often proprietary product.

 

[maflynn]

Steve Jobs is dead. Too many people are punishing Tim Cook and criticizing him for not being Steve Jobs.

Perhaps to some degree, but then it seems many folks here seem think he lacks the vision (and zeal) of Jobs and Apple is not producing the best products because of that lack of vision and zeal.

While he's been successful at managing Apple and it being very profitable, its not been that nimble on seeing the trends and attacking them. I think its been 4 (maybe even more) years where Cook promises that there are great products in the pipeline. At some point, those great products need to see the light of day.