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'Constant Negativity' From Pro Users Led Apple to Develop Modular Mac Pro, Which May Not Ship Until 2019
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And it already exists.
https://www.duetdisplay.com/sv/
I bought the software and its awesome and cheap.
The article states that Apple's neglect of the Mac Pro is justified since it represents single-digit market share of the Mac lineup. I'd counter that it's because Apple isn't giving consumers what they want, but it sounds like they are now – modular.
I know a lot of pro users who use Adobe Creative Suite and they switched to Windows 10 PCs because they simply couldn't justify the cost to use the same software on a (slower) Mac.
Apple did itself no favors when it took the #1 NLE software, Final Cut Pro, and put out an alpha version of FCP X. They axed DVD Studio Pro (no Blu-ray authoring on the Mac, ever), and they axed Shake. Instead of killing off apps that are on the Mac and motivate people to stay on Mac, Apple should be doing the opposite. They should be making the pro software that every pro on the planet wants to use.
So Apple GAVE Adobe a ton of customers. Here's is the double whammy – Adobe uses it's GPU-acceleration API called Mercury, not OpenCL. Mercury is supported much better on nVidia GPUs. What does the Mac Pro have? AMD Radeon. So if you are like most motion graphics artists who uses After Effects, that $6,000 Mac Pro is slower than a $2,000 Windows PC because After Effects on the Mac doesn't even use OpenCL. It's all on the CPU.
I have a friend who had a screaming PC custom built for about $2K. He uses Premiere Pro on it. It's his first PC. He had Macs for years. He can add Thunderbolt 3 to it now by popping in a card. I have a Mac Pro 2013 that I paid about $10,000 on including the external Thunderbolt 2 10 TB hard drives, the Dell 4K monitor, the Apple Cinema Display. My hard drives read about 930 MBps according to AJA. Thunderbolt 3 drives are getting more than double that and I can't use them. Sucks.
Like I said, Apple should be making the best pro software on the planet and make it Mac-exclusive. I've been working in Motion 5 this week and I've been using it since version 1. It still crashes a lot. It still has lots of bugs when working with audio. The last update to it and FCP X, back in October, gave us 3D text. Really? 3D Text? It's like a $40 plug-in added to "pro" software.
Why doesn't Apple have the best 3D animation app on the planet exclusively on Macs? I'm talking about feature rich, STABLE STABLE STABLE software with that Apple user interface that is consistent across all the apps.
The company has how much in cash? $30 billion? More? Seriously, I have no clue why they didn't buy Black Magic and Maya years ago. They could have a software suite that all the pros want badly, running exclusively on Macs.
[doublepost=1491835463][/doublepost]
If they licensed the OS to Dell, you could get a new "Mac Pro" in a month.
I know a lot of pro users who use Adobe Creative Suite and they switched to Windows 10 PCs because they simply couldn't justify the cost to use the same software on a (slower) Mac.
Apple did itself no favors when it took the #1 NLE software, Final Cut Pro, and put out an alpha version of FCP X. They axed DVD Studio Pro (no Blu-ray authoring on the Mac, ever), and they axed Shake. Instead of killing off apps that are on the Mac and motivate people to stay on Mac, Apple should be doing the opposite. They should be making the pro software that every pro on the planet wants to use.
So Apple GAVE Adobe a ton of customers. Here's is the double whammy – Adobe uses it's GPU-acceleration API called Mercury, not OpenCL. Mercury is supported much better on nVidia GPUs. What does the Mac Pro have? AMD Radeon. So if you are like most motion graphics artists who uses After Effects, that $6,000 Mac Pro is slower than a $2,000 Windows PC because After Effects on the Mac doesn't even use OpenCL. It's all on the CPU.
I have a friend who had a screaming PC custom built for about $2K. He uses Premiere Pro on it. It's his first PC. He had Macs for years. He can add Thunderbolt 3 to it now by popping in a card. I have a Mac Pro 2013 that I paid about $10,000 on including the external Thunderbolt 2 10 TB hard drives, the Dell 4K monitor, the Apple Cinema Display. My hard drives read about 930 MBps according to AJA. Thunderbolt 3 drives are getting more than double that and I can't use them. Sucks.
Like I said, Apple should be making the best pro software on the planet and make it Mac-exclusive. I've been working in Motion 5 this week and I've been using it since version 1. It still crashes a lot. It still has lots of bugs when working with audio. The last update to it and FCP X, back in October, gave us 3D text. Really? 3D Text? It's like a $40 plug-in added to "pro" software.
Why doesn't Apple have the best 3D animation app on the planet exclusively on Macs? I'm talking about feature rich, STABLE STABLE STABLE software with that Apple user interface that is consistent across all the apps.
The company has how much in cash? $30 billion? More? Seriously, I have no clue why they didn't buy Black Magic and Maya years ago. They could have a software suite that all the pros want badly, running exclusively on Macs.
[doublepost=1491835463][/doublepost]
If they licensed the OS to Dell, you could get a new "Mac Pro" in a month.
I agree. On the other hand - a big fat PC can do all stuf that a MacPro can - except for running MacOS. And MacOS is why I use a Mac. The thing itself is under my desk, and I use a HP monitor. So, if they combine off the shelf stuff, to meet their standards, and add some Apple magic to it, I would be happy for now.
My concerns are that Apple will release a "modular" Mac Pro, however it will heavily locked down with proprietary tech, hence the yet again the elongated wait. I am sorry I just don't see Apple offering an open and flexible Mac Pro, Apple has become far too "penny pinching" under Tim Cook.
If Apple had any sense and less greed they would release a far more open Mac Pro, enjoy the benefits of positive customer & tech press response and importantly the fall through of the "Halo" effect, as it's not like the average consumer is going looking at such expensive hardware.
If you want an open and flexible system Windows or Hacintosh seems to be the only path, as I seriously doubt Apple has the vision to realise such a product, no doubt the power cable will be additional costIf I was in the market for a new Mac Pro, I would pickup the "Cheese Grater" case, have it modified to allow installation of the latest hardware, duel Boot OS X & W10, being confident of it being far faster than what Apple is capable of producing.
Q-6
I looked at that exact option before I built my hackintosh - the case modifications were not trivial and since I wasn't good with a Dremel, I opted for a full sized case from Corsair - I dual-boot into Sierra and Win 10 Pro - LOVE my hackintosh. That said, I wouldn't do "mission critical" work on the Mac side of a hackintosh - that seems potentially dangerous without a really good backup option in case in craps out...but for day-to-day fun at home, I LOVE it.
10 years down the road Apple will be renamed into iPhone, and will only sell one product.
Love the discussions in this article. One of the best ever.
Love the discussions in this article. One of the best ever.
It should not. Apple can let third parties make clones of the Apple decktop. Just put a Apple decal on it if it makes us feel better. TwStudios.
[doublepost=1491840097][/doublepost]Still use Tower and MacPro 17 in. with SSD 1 T HD. Up Ram, and it even has a DVD drive ! Life is good.
I haven't owned a Windows PC in over a decade. I'm curious if Windows 10 still has the same hassles that previous Windows versions had.
I always thought the Windows UI was horrific, having to click on a million PROPERTIES buttons, then a tab, then an ADVANCED PROPERTIES button to get settings like refresh rate on your monitor. I'm guessing that has improved.
What about error messages about DLLs, or having to use a registry fixer?
Does Windows still slow down after 10 months of normal use?
I know this is a biased forum, but maybe there is someone who has an objective opinion, real world insight, who uses both. Thanks!
In all honestly I would pay for someone with the right skill set to mod the case. I also tend to agree a Hacintosh is an additional risk as a primary system. For me it's just a no go due to contactual obligations and licensing. In all likelihood If went down the road of desktop I would opt for a W10 custom build, duel booting Linux/Unix or one HP'S off the shelf Workstations. More likely the former as I don't currently need a "heavy lifter"
Q-6
It proves that the Mac Pro in it's present state is way overpriced and can't compete/offer a decent solution to today's standards.
The state of the iPhone is similar to the state where the Mac is right now. Way overpriced for what you get. Samsung showed the world where it is capable of for even less money then the iPhone 7. Wait a few months and all the Chinese brands will offer the same for even less. Another few months later and the iPhone 8 will come out for about $ 1000 and probably even more in the rest of the world. Unless iOS 11 will leapfrog Android I'll think we're heading for a, slow at first, steady decline.
Even their laptops are ranked low while they used to be top of the line. Am I surprised? No! Be honest to yourself and Apple is a total mess at the moment. It's a mess in computers, iPads and software and services.
http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/laptop-brand-ratings
Oh I think you are spot on with the idea that Steve Jobs was definitely not the only person building and running apple, but I think at the very root, his philosophies informed the companies strategies. Some may say his ideas were forward thinking and others over-confident and cocky, but now those ideas have come to bear. The speed, or rather lack thereof, with which they have decided to overhaul the cylinder, is telling of these growing pains and I am certainly curious to see how, and how swiftly, they follow through with this.
I don't see why it will take 2 more years to produce a workstation. Check out these folks, and what they have for Windows and Linux: http://www.boxx.com/ Great for CAD, 3D, VR, AV, etc.
IMHO, if Apple wants a Pro Workstation, they should buy BOXX and ADJUST macOS to be fully compatible and support all the upgrades available to it.
Here's an angle that I question - Apple obviously wants to get it "right" (I assume) so just slapping a case on a bunch of available components has never been how they do business.
However - saying it would take them 1-2 years seems excessive - hell...the hackintosh community (none of them Apple employees, presumably) have managed to hack together the utilities and code to make it work with TONS of different motherboards, GPU's, RAM configs, HD/SSD configs, PCIe slots, SATA ports, etc etc. If a bunch of INDIVIDUALS can do that and maintain it's function, why should it take Apple 1-2 years to accomplish what is largely the same task - Apple engineers, after all, have all the code available to them - no hacking needed!
Sheesh! Just drop a few big salaries on a half dozen of the most prominent hackintosh coders, give them their own lab, and they'll have it up and running in a few days/weeks!
Yeah - wishful thinking. But little to no R&D costs - the components are out there already. Apple could go back to just selling MacOS instead of Mac Pro towers - probably more profit margin there anyway...
I know it's not even remotely that simple...but still...conceptually...
However - saying it would take them 1-2 years seems excessive - hell...the hackintosh community (none of them Apple employees, presumably) have managed to hack together the utilities and code to make it work with TONS of different motherboards, GPU's, RAM configs, HD/SSD configs, PCIe slots, SATA ports, etc etc. If a bunch of INDIVIDUALS can do that and maintain it's function, why should it take Apple 1-2 years to accomplish what is largely the same task - Apple engineers, after all, have all the code available to them - no hacking needed!
Sheesh! Just drop a few big salaries on a half dozen of the most prominent hackintosh coders, give them their own lab, and they'll have it up and running in a few days/weeks!
Yeah - wishful thinking. But little to no R&D costs - the components are out there already. Apple could go back to just selling MacOS instead of Mac Pro towers - probably more profit margin there anyway...
I know it's not even remotely that simple...but still...conceptually...
I think it would also be nice for the Apple apologists to give it a watch. I found the comparative analysis to be interesting, even though it was a foregone conclusion. Sorry you did not.
I got your point, I just disagree. As far our little spat goes, I'm checking out.
Have a nice day.
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Well, I *hope* that this is good news. Apple really needs to get some stuff sorted out (much of which is already mentioned; such as using GPUs and APIs which enable easy graphics acceleration from all apps - otherwise you end up with budget PCs running rings around high-end MacPros, but I digress). I do worry that this "modular" approach might be "if you want to add storage, buy Apple's module! It's only 4x the cost of industry standard storage, you love it!" I'm keeping me fingers crossed that this is not the case, but... let's say I'm not optimistic at this point; I'll believe it when I see it kind of thing...
Or, I guess I'm saying that it is important that this MacPro use at least some reasonably-priced industry-standard tech (and it needs to cool well.) Liquid-cooling is now cheap and easy. Building a good quiet cool-running VR-rig is now relatively trivial in the PC world, as is using regular (no "module" needed) storage and video cards. This type of thing is critical to success in the pro world. Gobs of cheap, cheap, cheap storage, or more specifically the ability to at the very least upgrade your video card(s), CPU(s), RAM and storage without having to replace the entire machine; all while using at least that minimal collection of industry-standard parts. That's the way to go. (Many of these are the reasons MacPro owners either kept their aging MacPros or build Hackintosh systems rather than downgrading to the MacProMiniPieceOfCrap that Apple produced the last time around.)
Or, I guess I'm saying that it is important that this MacPro use at least some reasonably-priced industry-standard tech (and it needs to cool well.) Liquid-cooling is now cheap and easy. Building a good quiet cool-running VR-rig is now relatively trivial in the PC world, as is using regular (no "module" needed) storage and video cards. This type of thing is critical to success in the pro world. Gobs of cheap, cheap, cheap storage, or more specifically the ability to at the very least upgrade your video card(s), CPU(s), RAM and storage without having to replace the entire machine; all while using at least that minimal collection of industry-standard parts. That's the way to go. (Many of these are the reasons MacPro owners either kept their aging MacPros or build Hackintosh systems rather than downgrading to the MacProMiniPieceOfCrap that Apple produced the last time around.)
im predicting a failure of the new "modular" Mac Pro and here's why. First, it's going to take them TWO YEARS to come up with something? Give me a break. That's a misallocatio/non-allocation of resources already. It's going to take them two years to come up with something "proprietary". Next, since they are going to be designing this thing two years out, by the time it hits the market most of the components will be obsolete and, given Apple's track record, overpriced.
Their 2016 MacBook 'Pro' is another abomination. Nothing "pro" about it. It's thermally challenged, thin for thin's sake, and the touchbar nobody asked for is gimmicky at best.
This sudden admission by Apple that they screwed up with the trashcan Mac Pro is simply because their 'Pro' line of machines are not selling because they are producing products no one wants. They sure did sell a lot of 2015 MBP refurbs though......
The magic is truly dead at Apple. Pack that spaceship campus with all of the Apple executives and send the damn thing into orbit.
Their 2016 MacBook 'Pro' is another abomination. Nothing "pro" about it. It's thermally challenged, thin for thin's sake, and the touchbar nobody asked for is gimmicky at best.
This sudden admission by Apple that they screwed up with the trashcan Mac Pro is simply because their 'Pro' line of machines are not selling because they are producing products no one wants. They sure did sell a lot of 2015 MBP refurbs though......
The magic is truly dead at Apple. Pack that spaceship campus with all of the Apple executives and send the damn thing into orbit.
Don't they have to single down before they can double down?
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Maybe it was the internal purchase orders coming from their own design department for Dell workstations.
Mac Pro sold lesser than single digits...for YEARS..
Why react now? Simple cause the inventory they bought at yesteryear prices have finally depleted.
Therefore they can now make a " courageous" statement that thy are going to do something about it.
And reduced the OLD mac pro prices.
If you guys think that the pro users complaints caused this affect ..nope....And if it did ..It took 4 years !!
Why react now? Simple cause the inventory they bought at yesteryear prices have finally depleted.
Therefore they can now make a " courageous" statement that thy are going to do something about it.
And reduced the OLD mac pro prices.
If you guys think that the pro users complaints caused this affect ..nope....And if it did ..It took 4 years !!
The ONLY thing that caused them a moments pause, from diving head first in their Scrooge McDuck fortune, was the extreme rise in 2015 MBP sales. If that had not happened, they would have paid a seconds attention to the customer base they have abandoned.
My last job replaced a lot of Mac Pro towers and Xserves with Boxx Nodes and desktops for 3D rendering. It was a significant improvement in performance.