Then Apple shouldn't price it at $500,which is more expensive than pretty much all Windows and Android tablets that are far more capable.
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iPad Constant reloading of tabs in Safari makes iPad Air useless!
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Then Apple shouldn't price it at $500,which is more expensive than pretty much all Windows and Android tablets that are far more capable.
And we think Apple should price their stuff based on what their competitors are pricing theirs?
If they weren't selling any and wanting to compete on price, maybe.
But Apple has successfully created a product that people want to buy regardless of what Windows or Android does.
Apple should price their product at whatever they can sell them at. Apple doesn't compete on price.
Let's compare my new tablet to the Air:
$350 (includes keyboard/trackpad)
64GB Storage
USB 3.0 port
Micro USB port
HDMI port
SD Card slot (up to 64GB supported)
2GB RAM
1.2lb weight
10.1 inch IPS display
10 hour battery life
I can run full versions of Chrome, Firefox or Safari, with dozens of tabs open and never a refresh or a crash. Not to mention full iTunes, Photoshop and Civ V.
So comparing my tablet to yours is a bit <insert favorite adjective here>
Now I know you don't want the tablet I bought, but my point is there's no excuse for having a limited capability OS just because "it's a tablet" and not a laptop. Maybe there was a few years ago, but not today.
I don't disagree with you, but that is not what Apple designed and is selling. They designed a tablet with a tablet OS. Could they put OS X on a tablet? I'm sure they could. Will they? Nobody knows.
My point was that comparing a tablet to a PC in tablet form is pointless. Whether it is the Surface Pro 2 or the Dell Venue Pro, they are running full Windows 8.1. I personally think these two are a whole lot more functional than an iPad (for me), especially with their ability to run any Windows program and have USB connections. But there is still a HUGE market for easy to use tablets. Apple redefined the market of what was possible with a tablet. For 90% of the people, an iPad can do everything they need to do. They don't need access to the file system or USB ports. The iPad is perfect for them.
If you need that added functionality, buy something else. But lamenting what the iPad can't do is pointless. The iPad is what it is. It either meets your need or it doesn't. I personally would LOVE an iPad Air running OS X with at least one USB port. But that doesn't exist. So I got an iPad and a MacBook. If I were to make my buying decision TODAY, I would be looking at this new crop of Windows 8.1 tablets.
WOW!! People wanting more for Apple? People not simply buying what is offered by Apple, and parroting "thank you sir, may I have another"?
Strang concept around these parts.
Hopefully offerings like your tablet start to make apple take notice in order to improve their products. I know I'd love for that to be outcome.
Pretty good observation. New OS, written from the ground up....and only 'out' now for a few months with '4' .0X updates....they're busy optimizing iOS7, that's a guarantee....iOS6 was iOS5 which was iOS4 which was iOS3....you get the point. Since 2007, iOS has been 'the same' for the most part as far as UI. Remember when the primary 'bitch' was no copy/paste? We've come a long way since then----and the cash cow that iOS devices are, you can rest assured Apple is doing what they can to 'optimize' the OS. That said, there are STILL plenty of websites that need to 'optimize' their code, bring it up to date, get rid of Flash (Adobe is even blowing it off....as is Android!), and realize MANY folks are accessing their sites with mobile devices, without 16GB of RAM nor core iX processing.
But it's happening. They're working on it....not resting on their laurels counting their ducats.
Apparently you're having a hard time understanding 64bit as well...he provided a pretty decent example and to the layman, something folks can understand vs. going in to instruction sets, pointers, and what the 64bit platform actually DOES provide now and for the future of iOS development.
IF you're an owner of an A7 device---the new Mini, Air or 5s, (I've got a 5s and Air)....you, like me...are surprised at the continued evolution of apps from the App Store being converted to 64bit, with a .0X bug fix almost immediately following. I've seriously had a dozen updates a week since purchasing them. iCab is my 'go to' browser, as Safari doesn't allow text resizing and iCab does with simple gestures. I'm honestly surprised at 'all these issues' reported with Safari as I've not had ANY crashes, reloads or other challenges when using Safari....as it IS the default browser and you DO have to use it in some cases. That said, I'm not one to have a dozen tabs open at once...and when I actually DO have to wait for website repopulation, it's almost immediate with LTE or WiFi speeds being what they are.
This A7 chip is incredible....FAST as hell, the A8 instruction set is phenomenal and Apple's XCode 5 update is tremendous!
Wait for what? Isn't this a website for a 'fanboi' (sp?) or is it "Fanboy"? Anyway, can't stand the word....nor would I tell anyone to 'wait' if they need a tablet. On the market, today----the BEST tablet money can buy is the Air or the new Mini, regardless of your opinion. The build quality. The SoC. The Eco System. Post purchase support...and when next year's Air comes out with 2GB of RAM, you'll easily recoup 70-80% of your original purchase price on the second hand market. Try doing THAT with any other OEM's tablet. Won't happen.
You have bad iPad. Take it back or call for a return. That's NOT typical behavior.
It's been mentioned, but comparing a tablet to a laptop is silly. A)Laptops and their OS are HUGE!!!! 20-25GB JUST for the OS....and 4, 8, 16, 32GB of RAM? Actual X86 processing....and, Oh...Yeah, the FACT that Windows/OSx/Linux, et al have been around for 20+ years helps a bit as well....simply because THAT'S what these 'well coded sites' you speak of were coded for.
"Hundreds of tabs"? Seriously??? I'm not sure we're talking the same language here....RAM is NOT the answer to these seemingly isolated issues (to Safari) and specific 'poorly coded sites'. It's the SAME thing that happened a year ago when I bought my first rMBP. ARS, TechCrunch, Facebook....laggy, jumpy, and hard to scroll through fluently. This has COMPLETELY changed over the year as these sites HAVE re-coded their language to run well on HiDPI displays...again, another NEW addition in it's infancy that we are also facing on the iPad. Since my purchase of my initial rMBP last fall, I've gone from having to switch to discreet graphics for several sites to them being perfectly lag-free and fluid on my Intel 4000----and THIS year, Apple released a $2,000 rMBP without discreet graphics, albeit a bad ass iGPU---the IrisPro handles these sites without lag, without glitchy frame rates and WITH high resolution photos, icons and touch targets that 'look' decent on the higher rez screens.
The third point he makes in his conclusion
"You should not worry if your 64-bit program consumes more stack memory. There is much more physical memory in 64-bit systems. The stack with the size 2 Mbytes on a 64-bit system with 8 Gbytes of memory takes fewer percent of memory than 1 Mbyte of stack in a 32-bit system with 2 Gbytes."
Keep in mind, Anand's find on the A7 SoC---the 4MB stack built on to the SoC itself specifically FOR memory control, compression, and fully implementable by developers. This is a 4x increase from the A6x that had a 1MB stack on the SoC. As well---is theory is based on X86 processors, not mobile memory management on ARM or Snapdragon processors. Quite different.
Again, from my experience of owning each iteration of the iPad, I'm thinking you got a bad Apple....no pun intended. My Air doesn't lag. My 'end result' is quite the polar opposite of your 'poor experience with iPad'. I've got 4 iPad 4s for our business we use....and in comparison (we've also got an original, iPad 2 and original Mini in the house as well as my new Air) to the others, the Air absolutely trounces each version before it. Maybe you're confusing lag with animation. Turn off the animation. You can do that in 'Settings'. As well, I've NEVER had to micromanage apps....NEVER!!! Apple does an extremely good job managing memory in iOS---MUCH better than Android (I own a Xoom, Note, and just sold my 2013 Nexus 7 as it was WAY too 'laggy' in comparison with iOS). If you're curious what the hell I'm talking about, go to AT&T and play with a Note 3. 3GB of RAM and the experience is FAR from fluid. TouchWiz has become a pile of bloat----and the RAM doesn't do a darn thing to help it's fluency.
The 'lag' wasn't there on iOS 6.
iOS 7 isn't on par with 6 in terms of smoothness. (yet)
Weird---my Air, my iPad 4s, my original mini, my 5s, my wife's 5....none are showing this 'lag'. Nor has this been mentioned in ANY professional review I've read. Anand goes extremely deep in his testing....and uses objective testing results for comparison between other devices, including iOS.
I'm wondering if there's just a 'bad batch' out there in the wild. I'm floored by the Air---and I'm replacing my wife's iPad 2 with a rMini, passing the 2 to our son and keeping the original for nostalgia's sake
Agreed. Which was the ONE thing the apologists harped on sooooooo much - iOS is smoother than Android.
I don't hear that one near as much as I used to.
Believe you me, iOS is MUCH smoother than ANY version of Android (played with KitKat on a Play Store S4 yesterday). Project Butter??? BS. No apologies here....as an owner of both and enjoy(er) of both, the fluency of iOS7 still SMOKES Android. That's a Fact. Period.
Which tablet is THIS? $350 and you can run Photoshop? Dozens of tabs open? I'm intrigued....as well by the 10 hour battery life, 10" panel, etc. Was this a second hand (used) purchase?
Sounds like a Surface (1) to me, and if that's the case...running iTunes on it? What a crap shoot!!! (I bought one when they came out last year)....Forget Photoshop *unless you bought a pro---but NOT @ $350, right?
If you have an example of a tablet, a TRUE example of a tablet without a limited capability OS, I'm all ears. We're talking about an OS that's about a GB or 2, an SoC....not an X86 processor, and 10 hours unplugged in a one pound package. Seriously-----and the benchmarking results of the Air are literally Off the Charts when it comes to performance....even up against Intel's Bay Trail, it's a damn close race.
Amazing....you'd think this was the worst iPad yet, however they're selling MORE than ever!!! As much as Samsung and Windows are spending trying to dismiss the capabilities of the iPad---it wouldn't surprise me a single bit that we have 'paid my Samsung' posters on big Apple boards like MR attempting to sway the buying public. Apparently they aren't listening. Last weekend, there was a 50% increase in Air impressions on line....a MONTH after release!!!! Must be a LOT of pissed off folks out there trying to refresh their 19th tab in Safari :roll eyes:
J
And that's really my point. When Apple released the iPad there was NOTHING to compare it to in the tablet world. Heck I've had a 1, a 2 a 4 (wife still has) and a mini (my current). We also both have iPhones so I'm no Apple hater.
But times are changing, and Apple is slipping behind pretty badly. Certainly some folks (my parents for instance lol) need/want a simple tablet, but others really want the capability of a real computer in tablet form factor.
IMO If Apple doesn't realize this, and come out with a "iPad Pro" to keep up they'll lose a lot of market share. They'll never compete on price, but they've got to keep up on features/capabilities at least.
People are invested in the Apple ecosystem(emotionally, financially, or both). We want it to "just work", which is why there is lots of passion in the debates here. For many, especially here, simply going out and getting an android tablet, brings a lot of extra considerations.
We want Apple to get it right.
It's the Asus T100. The new BayTrail chips are really very fast. It's replaced a 1 year old Lenovo i3 as my daily driver. My iPad mini has also been sitting on the shelf since I bought it. It's sort of ugly, and cheaply made, but also cheaply purchased.
I run Photoshop CS2 and it's great for the light editing I do. Here's a video of it running CS6 and it performs pretty damn well.
Asus T100 Photoshop
It also runs most PC/Steam games I've thrown at it, weighs 1.2lbs and goes for about 10 hours on a charge. These BayTrail processors have really upped the tablet game. Having a dumbed down OS is no longer required to get full (iPad like) tablet performance.
As far as apps go, 80% of what I used my iPad for was web browsing. And since this thread is about the iPad's shortcomings in that area, you can see where I'm coming from. Not to mention the browsers I can now use in my tablet are real, workstation class web browsers mostly not named after sea mammals. (kidding), and capable of running all my extensions.
Most of what else I used my iPad for - Flipboard, Kindle, email, calendar, RDP/VNC, music, etc are all handled just fine in Weindows 8 Metro. But now when I think "I need to do this on my real PC" I snap my tablet into the keyboard, grab my BT mouse (cause the trackpad sucks lol) click the desktop icon, and off I go.
The future is coming, the future is now. Apple needs to up it's game because they'll push everybody further, and then we ALL get cooler toys!
This!
My previous iPads did not have this problem and they had no more ram than my new Air. Just give it some time and Apple will fix it.
Yes, I understand. That's why people should send feedback to Apple and not just argue amongst ourselves cause that's not going to solve anything.
My iPad 2 is also rendered completely and utterly useless due to the refreshing tab issue. Due to the tab issue, nothing else will work.
Joking. Really--it is realllyyyy irritating. My iPad 2 can barely keep 3 tabs going. Really slows me down sometimes. Now, I don't believe iOS 6 had as hard of a time keeping tabs open if I'm not mistaken. Hopefully just a software update can fix this for us.
Joking. Really--it is realllyyyy irritating. My iPad 2 can barely keep 3 tabs going. Really slows me down sometimes. Now, I don't believe iOS 6 had as hard of a time keeping tabs open if I'm not mistaken. Hopefully just a software update can fix this for us.
Except Apple has been known to NOT fix problems in the past. Some pretty severe.
I agree that your statement is true for a lot of things. Doing CAD drawings? Playing console quality games? There's plenty of things PC are built for. I don't have a problem with that distinction.
However, browsing is one of a Tablet's primary functions. This is one of the primary reasons the iPad was built.
I think it's perfectly fair to expect the tablet browsing experience to be on par with, or BETTER than a PC. The refresh issue is just a killer in terms of the browsing experience, when coupled with some other limitations of iOS:
- Posting on a forum. I also want to post a picture, so i go to Google images, or another app. I come back, the tab is refreshed, my post is gone
- Browsing sites like deviantart, tumblr, or Facebook. If I click on the image and hit the back button - you can forget about ever getting back to where you were. If I open in a new tab, then go back to the original tab, you can forget about being in the same place you were
- Same goes for sites where I actually have to fetch my password from 1password app. No, I don't want to use the built in browser in that app!
- And so on and so forth
It's a really big problem, in my opinion. It just ruins the browsing experience.
That actually wasn't my point. I'm trying to highlight to you why folks are asking for more RAM. My comment was that the refreshing issue has not been something Apple has fixed (in any significant way) since introduction of iPad 1. However, adding more RAM to the device *is* something Apple has done since 2009. That's why some might think adding RAM is a more realistic solution, since fixing it in software hasn't happened at all.Honest? Ok. I guess Apple is to busy laughing all the way to the bank and carting all those billions of dollars in profit around to show any interest in fixing its software, right?
Geez. Ok. Whatever. You win. Apple is such a terrible company...
Whether or not Apple is making a lot of money on iPads isn't the point. We were discussing a core issue with browsing - not whether Apple has more bucks than I do - which is not really relevant to the discussion.
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Nope. I got the same problems magically appearing on my iPad 4 when I installed iOS 7, do you think the installation burned my RAM? Properly coded applications cannot crash due to lack of ram, they can run slow due to lack of ram but not crash.
Apple most likely introduced some bugs in its memory handling with their new OS, something they will likely have fixed for the final version of 7.1.
Yep, this is the problem with the walled garden ecosystem and proprietary file types. Once you are in, you are kind of in for life unless you are willing to lose content that you paid for. If someone has hundreds of songs that they bought via iTunes then it would be hard for them to just lose them.
Apple ought to get it right, there is clearly an issue here with safari. I don't believe its RAM related at all. It's safari and apple needs to take care of it.
I haven't had a single issue myself but many others have.
Weird---my Air, my iPad 4s, my original mini, my 5s, my wife's 5....none are showing this 'lag'. Nor has this been mentioned in ANY professional review I've read. Anand goes extremely deep in his testing....and uses objective testing results for comparison between other devices, including iOS.
I'm wondering if there's just a 'bad batch' out there in the wild. I'm floored by the Air---and I'm replacing my wife's iPad 2 with a rMini, passing the 2 to our son and keeping the original for nostalgia's sake
J
Go to the App store search for an app, tap on it. Then tap on the app screenshots to enlarge them. iPad Air opens it at around 5 fps (very very choppy animation).
** Increase contrast needs to turned OFF. When it's turned on the animation is perfectly smooth.
There is definitely more lag (dropped frame rates to be more precise) on iOS 7 than on iOS 6, but it is, as you said, understandable (I just expect Apple to fix it).
Other examples are: dropped frame rate when going back from multi-tasking to an app (from time to time), dropped frames in screen rotation animation(when keyboard is on. iPhone 5 and 5s as well), awful lag in some apps (such as Photoshop express app which lags terribly on Air when scrolling through images.- this,however, has more to do with the app developer. Some apps are just not yet optimized for the newest hardware)
Why would they lose them? I thought DRM from music was dropped years ago, and AAC format music is generally supported last I checked?
I didn't mention video since all the providers (AFAIK) apply DRM to videos, so it's nothing specific to Apple. Thus the "walled garden ecosystem and proprietary file types" is not applicable to video and ceased to be applicable to music several years ago.
The ecosystem/network-effects of any platform do generate a "stickiness" due to the higher impact of switching to a different platform. This is universal whether talking about Apple, Android, Nintendo, OSX, PlayStation, Windows, Xbox, etc.
IOS7 is not from the ground up, its iOS6 reskinned an a some new features. Also the 50% increase in impressions is from me. Safari / chrome reloads on freakin 2 tabs, one of the galleries i use losses track on reload... Write something in tab 1, look in gallery tab 2.. **** it reloaded, go though to find the image again, back to tab 1, **** lost my text, rinse and repeat. Its annoying as hell! Once it reloads on every tab i have, its only a matter of page views before the browser crashes.
there are an unacceptable number of bugs in iOS 7, like other posters have said it is in desperate need of optimization. Apple's devs definitely rushed this. especially safari; I have had it crash twice, and three times now it's made iOS randomly and suddenly reboot. in every one of those instances, all I was doing was downloading an image (a large image though, for wallpaper, but that shouldn't be such a problem...). as for the constant reloading, this must be some serious software bug, today I had TWO tabs open and noticed that sometimes merely switching the two tabs repeatedly! they would reload every time? what's up with that?
other bugs: sometimes it "autocorrects" commas to exclamation marks and periods to question marks, not sure if that's intentional and I don't know why it would be (in fact I'm writing this post on an iPad mini w.r.d. now and it has done that three times already). a lot of UI and menu animations are very noticeably laggy. and sometimes the pull-to-refresh circle (the one in Mail, for example) doesn't work properly after switching between apps; instead of the circling gradually completing as you swipe down, the whole thing appears and remains overlaid on top of the app content until you swipe far enough.
I never used ios 7 on an iPhone so I don't know how it well it works there, but I expected much better performance from a brand new, latest-generation device.
other bugs: sometimes it "autocorrects" commas to exclamation marks and periods to question marks, not sure if that's intentional and I don't know why it would be (in fact I'm writing this post on an iPad mini w.r.d. now and it has done that three times already). a lot of UI and menu animations are very noticeably laggy. and sometimes the pull-to-refresh circle (the one in Mail, for example) doesn't work properly after switching between apps; instead of the circling gradually completing as you swipe down, the whole thing appears and remains overlaid on top of the app content until you swipe far enough.
I never used ios 7 on an iPhone so I don't know how it well it works there, but I expected much better performance from a brand new, latest-generation device.
i just did a clean restore on my air with 7.0.4, after using it for half day, only one refresh vs constant tabs refresh from before.