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Consumer Reports 'Can't Recommend' iPhone 4 Due to Signal Issues

aygwm said:
Just like many politicians, Apple is making the mistake of not acknowledging that an issue like this is really, really complicated. We live a binary world where people demand simple explanations. Just look at the comments on this subject in every blog you've read, and will no doubt be added to this post. Too many posts fit pre-existing attitudes, and the result is confusing users and the media. I'd like to challenger Consumer Reports and others to test more than just one variable. No doubt that's what Apple is doing now...and why it's taking so long....
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Excellent considerations. Ultimately, CR was showing in controlled situation that iPhone 4 has issues on any GSM service.
 
This whole issue has gone on long enough. Half the iPhone4 owners have a problem. The other half don't. It's an antenna issue. It's not an antenna issue. It's just a problem with the # of bars being displayed. It has nothing to do with the # of bars being displayed. This whole time, since the very first iPhone, 5 bars was actually only 3 bars all along. It only happens if you grip it a certain way. You do not need to grip it in a vise-like iron grip of death to replicate the problem, as many seem to imply. Buying a bumper solves the problem. Buying a bumper does not help at all. I dont think there is a right answer.
 
The amazing thing about the crazy Apple fanboys is if this *same* thing happened with Sony, Microsoft, HTC, Samsung, whoever... guess what these *same* fanboys would be saying?


Yup... just like how most of us *sane* folks are saying about Apple right now.

Time to step away from the Kool-Aid.

w00master
 
AidenShaw said:
The real question is "who in their right mind *would buy* a phone that either requires DUCT tape or a case to work properly".
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The same people that would keep their defective phones instead of returning and buying something that works. The same people that would keep it because they are so giddy that it does so many other things great except for what it will be mainly used for.

And again your answer was right, Apple fans. 😛
 
I'd be more worried if Consumer Reports liked it. Over the years they have consistently rated low all the things I thought were good: Cameras, tires, cars, and even air filters. So I'm not surprised they rated the iPhone 4 low as well.

One thing that Consumer Reports relies heavily on is industry standards. Industry standards are often put together by a committee of manufacturers and so the tests often skewed to make the average products (what most of the manufacturers make) look good and the really good products look bad.
 
There is a right answer

skidbubble said:
This whole issue has gone on long enough. Half the iPhone4 owners have a problem. The other half don't. It's an antenna issue. It's not an antenna issue. It's just a problem with the # of bars being displayed. It has nothing to do with the # of bars being displayed. This whole time, since the very first iPhone, 5 bars was actually only 3 bars all along. It only happens if you grip it a certain way. You do not need to grip it in a vise-like iron grip of death to replicate the problem, as many seem to imply. Buying a bumper solves the problem. Buying a bumper does not help at all. I dont think there is a right answer.
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It's spelled A.N.D.R.O.I.D.

If Apple doesn't care about selling usable phones, you have a choice (the Lord God Jobs hates the word "choice").
 
The report from Consumer Reports could spur the Federal Trade Commission into action against Apple. The FTC views VERY dimly the sales of a product with such an obvious flaw and Apple's totally arrogant response on how to fix the problem. The last thing Apple wants is an FTC investigation of company practices, because that could lead to investigations on Apple's ban on Adobe Flash on iOS 4 and Apple's programming policies on iOS 4, which could turn very ugly fast and is something that Steve Jobs does not want to deal with.

I do think in the end Apple either has two choices: 1) recall the iPhone 4 or 2) offer a fix--whether by free bumper cases or a free software fix--to affected customers. The latter will likely be the least expensive solution.
 
This kind of reminds me of that Simpsons episode where Lisa dislikes her new doll because Malibu Stacey says some sexist things. But to make it all better the company rolls out the same Malibu Stacey but "with a new hat", problem solved.IP4 but with a free bumper, and the crowd goes wild.
 
mdickerson said:
I disagree completely, in principle. In the specific case of the iPhone, I would agree because I don't think the iPhone has the knobs to tweak in order to make a software/firmware fix work.

To summarize how it's possible there could be an actual software fix.... I think the problem is due to an increase in the VSWR (or S11) of the antenna ground plane (not the antenna itself, which is actually inside the phone). Mucking with the VSWR sends reflected energy backwards and will decrease the SNR. This is essentially a multi-path interference type problem which, given sufficient processing power (i.e. an FPGA), could be equalized out using a technique called a double-blind deconvolution. This is completely a software/firmware fix.
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Oh please..... has nothing to do with VSWR. Standing Wave Ratio occurs when reflected signals interfer with emitted signals. When you bridge the two different band antennas (wifi/BT and 3G) you are actually changing the impedance of each antenna, thus changing the loading efficencies of each antenna. Multi-path interference is when digital signals are received out of phase. Software can do lots of things but it cannot change the laws of physics.
 
Steviejobz said:
I have been an Apple apologist throughout this whole antenna fiasco but after visiting with a Genius this past Saturday, I hope Apple's stock falls hard and iPhone 4 sales begin to plummet. That is the only way Apple will sack up and fix this issue for everyone.

The Genius I spoke to could not have been more rude, denying he ever heard of a signal issue, said I should call AT&T, did not know what Speedtest was, etc. I was never rude but said I found it hard to believe that he never heard of this antenna/signal issue.

This dismissive approach is new for Apple. They used to be very receptive to consumer complaints, and friendly to the most annoying customer who walked in with a complaint.

Maybe more egg in their face and a hit to their stock will have them change their tune.
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IF they keep this up ... Android will begin to overtake them in US sales and start reducing shipments and revenue worldwide. Laugh now but the other players are getting smarter and punching hardware with their technologies - RIM is improving not just their browser, but hardware with the 9800 Slider due this fall season; webkit engine is throughout the system and with capacitive touch & keyboard it'll do everything that the Pre was supposed to be. Add to this issues with their ActiveSync implementation affecting Exchange 2003/2007 servers (2010 betas in testing) its NOT helping their ambitions in the corporate and medium size business space.

Apple sincerely needs to swallow the crunch - offer a MANDATORY bumper for customers (1 pkg of 5 colours); then 6mths out offer a hardware recall. This 6mths minimum allows quarterly revenues to STAY intact, profits can be used to fix current production line with the antenna's; and most of the essential parts (A4+batteries+etc can be repackaged if the glass is scratched). NOT to forget that AT&T will have time to boost their network signal ... those 3 class action suits against AT&T & Apple agreement can get UGLY for both ... AT&T better be ready to stop those quarterly bonus/stock options and allow the network to be upgraded and quality to SPEAK for itself ... mitigating the need for customers to switch providers: Churn is a wireless providers WORST enemy!

This will also begin to affect perception of quality and sound engineering in future product lineups for mobile devices.
 
Fix on the way

I heard that Apple has emailed all Apple store employees with the new party line on this.

When pressed, the Apple Drones at the stores (and the phone-drones at 1.800.apple.com) will say:

Yes, Apple realizes that the Iphone 4 has an inherent manufacturing defect.

Apple is working on a redesigned Iphone 4 without the problem.

Apple will replace your defective Iphone 4 with the new model as soon as it is available. Please log into Apple Iphone 4 replacements to get into the queue for Iphone 4 models that actually work.
​

Or, maybe not....

So happy that I have a WinMo phone from Verizon that actually works as a phone....
 
The way I understand it 90% of iPhone 4 users have ZERO issues whatsoever. Seems like a tempest in a teapot to me. 😉😉
 
SactoGuy18 said:
I do think in the end Apple either has two choices:

1) recall the iPhone 4

2) offer a fix--whether by free bumper cases or a free software fix--to affected customers.

The latter will likely be the least expensive solution.
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Only "1)" is reasonable. Apple sells on style - and telling people that they have to use an ugly bumper or case just to be able to use the phone won't fly.

Apple - recall all Iphone 4 handsets and replace them with new models that work.
 
PerfSeeker said:
The way I understand it 90% of iPhone 4 users have ZERO issues whatsoever. Seems like a tempest in a teapot to me. 😉😉
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Hmmmm..... and your source is? If this was the case Apple would immediately says there was some manfacturing malfunction on those "other 10%" and issue new, WORKING units.
 
AidenShaw said:
Only "1)" is reasonable. Apple sells on style - and telling people that they have to use an ugly bumper or case just to be able to use the phone won't fly.

Apple - recall all Iphone 4 handsets and replace them with new models that work.
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Admittedly Apple has kind of boxed themselves into a corner. Up to now it's been aesthetics #1 and functionality #2. Although many Apple fans would insist that Apple has never compromised on functionality - I point out the crippled Mac Mini . :apple:🙁🙁
 
whsbuss said:
Oh please..... has nothing to do with VSWR. Standing Wave Ratio occurs when reflected signals interfer with emitted signals. When you bridge the two different band antennas (wifi/BT and 3G) you are actually changing the impedance of each antenna, thus changing the loading efficencies of each antenna. Multi-path interference is when digital signals are received out of phase. Software can do lots of things but it cannot change the laws of physics.
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Get a clue about antenna design before you criticize somebody that's been doing it for 20 years. The impedance of your body is sufficiently high as to not significantly affect "loading efficiency" (not really a term in antenna design). The primary mechanism when the human body touches any high frequency circuit is capacitive coupling. Delay lines are frequently "tuned" using a finger because of this. The capacitive/inductive coupling raises the S11, which is frequency dependent version of the VSWR. Because S11 is periodic, you get reflection from each peak causing something that looks very much like multi-path.

Finally, yes software can do many things INCLUDING fixing multi-path.
 
Today I was in an area of town with lower cell reception, when I received an email from the guy I'm meeting who wants to buy my 3GS. I went to email him a response, from inside Target, and noticed that my signal was terrible. I was holding it the normal way you type in portrait, with a bumper on! I let go of the grip, and the signal went back up to 3 bars almost instantly. I never had that crap happen with any of the three iPhones I had before this. I also notice the thing loves to lose signal when it's in my pocket. I'll pull it out and have zero bars sometimes or 1 bar on edge.

I've said it before, and now maybe some of you rose-colored glasses fanboys will open your eyes. This is an issue! Apple messed up. Let's move on now and get this issue resolved!
 
LagunaSol said:
[If their product is flawed and doesn't suit your needs, return their product for a refund. It's the capitalist way.
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I'm going to ignore the bold, which really is a tool for weak argumentation.

No, it's not that simple. Why? Why can't I just go and buy another product? This is why it's not that simple:
-I bought an iPhone original. It's a great product.
-I bought many apps that I can't use on any other products
-Apple says I cannot upgrade my iPhone to the latest OS
-Apple has no means of downgrading app versions, except by recovering them from recycle bin. This would be ok with me, if I could save 2 versions of an app. Why? Because I have an iPad, too - which is eventually 4.0 capable.
-iTunes has various annoyances built in to auto-upgrade apps. This is as per Apple strategy to lock you into an upgrade cycle.
-If I move to an Android phone, I've essentially flushed the cost of all the apps I have down the toilet. My $10 beejive license won't transfer over to Android. My $10 office 2 go won't transfer to Android.

I don't think that you think about things like this when you respond like you did. I think that you should think about your responses before you post.

The discussion is not that simple. If Apple is going to insist on App distribution exclusivity, then they have a responsibility to offer an upgrade that is functional AS PER THEIR OWN DEFINITION IN THE IPHONE KEYNOTE:
1. Brilliant antenna design
2. Thinnest smartphone at the moment the Keynote occurred.

Bumper does not equal brilliant antenna design. I don't enjoy the freedoms of capitalism, as you put it, because iTunes is not a free market cross-phone-hardware. So no, LagunaSol, it's not the capitalist way, as you've put it.
 
mdickerson said:
Get a clue about antenna design before you criticize somebody that's been doing it for 20 years. The impedance of your body is sufficiently high as to not significantly affect "loading efficiency" (not really a term in antenna design). The primary mechanism when the human body touches any high frequency circuit is capacitive coupling. Delay lines are frequently "tuned" using a finger because of this. The capacitive/inductive coupling raises the S11, which is frequency dependent version of the VSWR. Because S11 is periodic, you get reflection from each peak causing something that looks very much like multi-path.

Finally, yes software can do many things INCLUDING fixing multi-path.
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I don't know what you just said there, but I hope to god you are right.
 
HLdan said:
It amazes me at the same time it literally pains me how these iPhone fans will ingest all of what they are calling "abuse" from Apple and Jobs, yet continue to remain at the party to take in more abuse. Nobody wants leave the party, this is why it amazes and pains me at the same time.

Here's the same old, same old rants from the dissatisfied iPhone 4 customers yet continue to stay at the party for more abuse:

"I'm pissed that Apple hasn't even acknowledged that there's something wrong with the iPhone 4" (although it was only less than a week since it was released but the bitching started).

"I'm pissed that Jobs told me that I was holding the phone wrong"

"I'm pissed that Apple finally puts out a statement, yet it's not the one I wanted from them"

"I'm pissed that Apple told me to put a bumper on my phone, they should be free" (interesting that most people here who've called in got a free bumper sent to them)

"I'm pissed that Apple didn't care about left handed people and told me to put the phone in my right hand" (isn't your right hand busy sometimes 😀)

"I'm pissed because Apple won't extend the 30 day return period after the so-called "Fix"

"I'm pissed that Apple thinks we're stupid by telling us that they are fixing the signal bars when there's more wrong with the phone than that"

"I'm pissed at Apple because they temporarily stopped production of the white iPhone 4".

Do you guys ever hear yourselves? Many of the same people rant about every one of these plus more yet they can simply do one thing to rid themselves of all the stress (Unless they like stress, but I don't), they can RETURN THE PHONE, but why won't they?, because Steve has got them wrapped around his finger. 😉
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firewood said:
According to CR, the fix can be as simple as Apple including a narrow 3 inch strip of duct tape in the package, plus mailing such to any existing customers who wish such. This is because CR only found the localized touch problem, not the hand shielding problem that many other of their recommended cell phones have.

Apple could even make it shiny Apple duct tape, and offer it in a variety of colors, say both black and white! ( However, I would prefer a thin soft clear vinyl tape. )

The instructions would say that you don't need to use the included tape with your iPhone 4 if you use a bumper or a case, use the phone where the cellular coverage is decent (above -85 dBm), or you "don't hold it that way". That's very likely the vast majority of customer, who will just throw the tape away.

So CR may have just contributed to an increase in plastic waste.
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Roofy. said:
Why the hell do you post here? Nobody cares about the crap you're spewing out. I have the new iPhone and it's hands down the best phone I have and will ever own. The signal issue doesn't exist for me so I could care less.
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SnowLeopard2008 said:
I still don't understand why people are complaining over something that doesn't exist. I don't have any problems with reception in my area as well as San Francisco. I was there today and I had no reception issues for voice or data. My bars hovered around 3-5 but my speed was very consistent. No dropped calls either. Furthermore, these signal issues are only proven to exist in low reception areas. This basically means, if you have low reception to begin with, you will still have low reception. And that is basically saying 1+2=3 and 2+1=3. No difference at all. You can argue bars may be misrepresented but I still got consistent speeds on SpeedTest. Stop whining about some phenomenon that only happens to a select few. None of my friends from other areas have reception issues with their iPhone 4s.

Also, AT&T has been proven to have the fastest connection (for 3G data) in the nation overall. There are multiple tests that were done by various sources. Verizon is slightly slower. The only difference is that AT&T is a little less consistent than Verizon. So Verizon is slightly slower but slightly more consistent than AT&T. AT&T is slightly faster and slightly less consistent.

From a scientific point of view, the new antenna should receive signals much better than any internal one. The only problem is some people with sweaty hands might interfere with it.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_teRloJf6yE
 
macduke said:
Today I was in an area of town with lower cell reception, when I received an email from the guy I'm meeting who wants to buy my 3GS. I went to email him a response, from inside Target, and noticed that my signal was terrible. I was holding it the normal way you type in portrait, with a bumper on! I let go of the grip, and the signal went back up to 3 bars almost instantly. I never had that crap happen with any of the three iPhones I had before this. I also notice the thing loves to lose signal when it's in my pocket. I'll pull it out and have zero bars sometimes or 1 bar on edge.

I've said it before, and now maybe some of you rose-colored glasses fanboys will open your eyes. This is an issue! Apple messed up. Let's move on now and get this issue resolved!
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At least those little twinkle's in your eye, developing in the front of your pockets will not born "i" kids with defects 😉

Proper realization. Sad thing is this phone offers SO MUCH that many of us do NOT want an alternative!! IT's the apps and the hardware combination. God help Apple's iPhone 4 business in current state if the competition can leap frog them.
 
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