Control Apple Music on Apple TV without tv turned on

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by rturner2, Feb 11, 2018.

  1. rturner2 macrumors 6502a

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    Jul 18, 2009
    #1
    It would be nice if Apple allowed the Apple TV screen content to mirror back to your phone so you could control Apple Music ie. listen to Apple TV via WiFi without using a phone or iPad via airplay. Which drains battery etc.

    Or if when using airplay for music from iphone and a track is selected, that Apple TV could stream the Apple Music song from WiFi (on the Apple TV) and use the phone simply as a (smart) remote with an interface.

    Currently the Remote app is limited ie. can’t visually select a new artist, playlist etc and it’s somewhat slow to respond especially on Apple Watch.
     
  2. priitv8 macrumors 68040

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    #2
    You can control this from Music app on iPhone, imho.
     
  3. rturner2 thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #3
    How?

    I thought this only controls music playing on my phone; not the music app on Apple TV.
     
  4. HobeSoundDarryl macrumors 604

    HobeSoundDarryl

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    #4
    The remote app used to work as you are wishing here. Then Apple decided to "improve" it, so that it would basically be a taller & fatter copy of the screen-less remote that comes with :apple:TV. I completely agree that a better use of a real screen in your hands would be to mirror back at least the UI controls (on-screen lists, etc) for those that want to use the :apple:TV as a jukebox with TV off.
     
  5. priitv8 macrumors 68040

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    #5
    Yes, AirPlaying to appleTV is what I meant.
     
  6. bucksaddle macrumors 6502

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    #6
    If you are on 11.2.5 and have an Apple TV 4 or 4K then it does exactly what the OP is looking for. In the Music app on an iOS device click on the small AirPlay icon, then select the Apple TV device lozenge from the new device list and go back to your music library. It is now showing you browsing your music on the Apple TV where you can browse artist, albums, playlists, etc and when you select a track it will start playing directly from the Apple TV.
    No requirement to AirPlay from iOS device and the TV can be off.
     
  7. rturner2 thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #7
    That's not my question.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 12, 2018 ---
    Great thanks.... so why does audio cut out sometimes if it's using wifi from Apple TV?
     
  8. iSayuSay macrumors 68040

    iSayuSay

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    Feb 6, 2011
    #8
    Spotify Connect is the perfect feature for the occassion. It's a killer feature that Apple Music does not have. You can "throw" the audio to be played on Connect devices as if it's an Airplay (but no, you're just telling the Spotify app on the other end to play a particular music), it also works as remote controller for the ongoing playback.
    On the flip side, Spotify does not currently have an Apple TV app to make this possible.

    In the meantime, you can just Airplay the music through Apple TV, but you must have your TV turned on, unless you connect it to AV receiver, which can play the audio without turning on the TV.
    It's kinda dumb though, if you have the TV turned on, you can just use the Music app on Apple TV, play your songs and save that iPhone's battery.

    Or Spotify could've made an app for Apple TV.. This problem could've been solved much easier since Connect is the best solution for that.

    TL'DR It's currently not possible to control the music with the tv turned off. All you can do is Airplay through Apple TV. Remote app on the iphone doesn't work to browse Apple Music, only ones that's in your playlist or itunes library.
     
  9. jjjjjooooo, Feb 13, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018

    jjjjjooooo Suspended

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    #9
    The HomePod line will presumably be their solution to this problem. Or at least until they make their own wireless television—it could quickly wake and sleep the display by default like their other devices—while continuing to play audio—rather than pulling up screen savers.

    It could maybe do this now, but you presumably couldn’t use HDMI-CEC. (Maybe HDMI 2.1 will address this.)

    But your television’s remote may have a button (e.g. “PIC OFF”) to do this manually. (And there may be a settings option if not.)
     
  10. yayarod macrumors newbie

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    Buenos Aires, ARGENTINA
    #10
    --- Post Merged, Feb 18, 2018 ---
    But be aware of the following detail: if your Apple TV is connected directly to the TV and not to a receiver the only way to use this long awaited new feature is to have an AirPort Express to send the audio to. The other way would be to buy a HDMI splitter to extract the audio but this to weird.
    This fantastic new feature in iOS 11.2.5 has three benefits:
    - TV can be off
    - AirPlay not required. No dedicated battery drain on iPhone or iPad.
    - AND something NOBODY mentioned: if you use good headphones you can notice that the ALL cabled music reproduction through the Apple TV has a slightly (by a very thin margin) better audio quality than using AirPlay.
     
  11. yayarod macrumors newbie

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    Buenos Aires, ARGENTINA
    #11
    You are not correct. If you start playing music through your iOS device and you then use the small AirPlay icon to change destinations the music is streamed to the Apple TV through AirPlay. You can check this using Control Center: iPhone -> Apple TV is shown. To ensure the music plays directly from the Apple TV you need to open Control Center first and open the Apple TV tile. Then when you return to Apple Music on your iPhone or iPad you will see Apple TV on the reproduction control at the bottom.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 18, 2018 ---
    And the TV can only be off if you have your Apple TV connected to a receiver and not to the TV directly.
    If your Apple TV is connected to the TV directly you need a HDMI splitter to extract the audio channel to allow for music reproduction with TV off.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 18, 2018 ---
    The best way to hear Apple Music directly from the Apple TV with the TV off if you don’t have a receiver is to use an AirPort Express and send the sound from the Apple TV to the AirPort Express.
    The benefit over using AirPlay are many as stated above, but just the finer sound quality (only noticeable through headphones and changing sources many times) is the main reason perfectionists would choose to go this way.
     
  12. yayarod macrumors newbie

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    #12
    I apologize for the correction I made at the beginning. Now it is possible to change the device to control (HomePod or Apple TV) from within the Music app clicking on the red triangle.
     
  13. iSayuSay, May 14, 2018
    Last edited: May 14, 2018

    iSayuSay macrumors 68040

    iSayuSay

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    Feb 6, 2011
    #13
    I'd like to make a correction to my previous post. You can actually control and browse the Music played from your Apple TV, and HomePod in this regard. Please be notified that this only works from Apple Music. If you have Spotify or anything else, you can stick to Airplay to your Apple TV. Not as good to be honest because it drains up your iPhone battery real good.

    You just need an iOS device for this, connected to the same WiFi network on all your Apple TV or HomePod. You simply need to pull up Control Center from your iPhone/iPad.

    IMG_2293.png

    3D Touch on Music section (or tap and hold for iPad) in the Control Center and you'll get this

    IMG_2292.png

    This individual box will control Apple Music on each device. In my case I have the top section is for local playback (iPhone music playback), then in the middle is the BEDROOM section which is a Homepod, and the bottom one is BEDROOM is my Apple TV's name. You can tap each box and it'll bring you back to Music App but it's for each respective devices. Once you're inside you will be able to control any playback for that particular device. You can choose any songs, play/pause and adjust the volume too.

    So yeah, no need to turning on your TV or browse the Music interface via your Siri Remote. And let me assure you this method is NOT AIRPLAY STREAMING. It's an individual playback operation. Just again, keep in mind:

    1. You need an iOS device for remote control
    2. Your devices need to be connected to the same WiFi network and using the same Apple ID.
    3. You need to use Apple MUSIC, and Apple MUSIC only. Other audio sources has to go through Airplay. It's  after all!

    Hope this helps and I apologize for any misinformation before.
     
  14. _oneworld_ macrumors newbie

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    Jan 30, 2019
    #14
    So glad I found this. Now using a good AirPlay Speaker (AudioPro A10) , playing from AppleTV and browsing on the iPad. TV and soundbar i standby mode saves some power.

    The only problem I have is that I cannot chose output device on the iPad. The only listed device is the TV itself when I'm in the "TV box", while the iPad box lists all devices. (Same on iPhone). Music App on the TV show all my AirPort devices and I can chose the AirPlay speaker, and then turn off TV. Anyone else with this problem?
     
  15. iSayuSay, Jan 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019

    iSayuSay macrumors 68040

    iSayuSay

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    #15
    Well glad I could help. All the Music Control Center does is managing the music playback on your ATV and HomePod, as long as it's online and share the same Apple ID. Audio output must be managed manually through your Apple TV, just like your iPhone and iPad could, but of course you'll need your TV turned on to do the switch.

    Not really "a problem" since it's the actual limitation given the situation. You may control the music playback on your Apple TV with your phone, just not where to channel the sound.

    PROTIP: You can also add "Apple TV Remote" through your Control Center. Really helps with the situation when you don't have the remote with you because your iPhone works as well. Basic music control works as well too.

    iphon ss_LI.jpg
     
  16. _oneworld_ macrumors newbie

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    Jan 30, 2019
    #16
    So it's by design? I wonder why it was made this way. And I _can_ chose where to channel the sound on the iPhone, if I chose the Apple TV (going from previous output). The box showing the AppleTV on the iPhone sure looks like it could have been a menu (like it is on the box showing the iPhone). It's a bit silly to turn on the TV, just to chose another AirPlay device (i e after the speaker has been connected to some other source).

    I have the Apple TV Remote App, which is really helpful, since the Remote often is somewhere where I can't find it.

    I had the idea that Siri on AppleTV could understand this, but I fail trying this. (It either starts playing songs with the name resembling the speaker or says I must use Siri Remote to adjust sound level).

    The old Remote App (for connecting to iTunes on the Mac) works better in this way. You can browse your music AND you can chose where to output the sound. However it does not work with Apple Music (searching, playing Radio, ...), so it is limited to my local archive. I had hoped that it would get support for Apple Music, but no. (The mode when connecting to AppleTV is just a track pad, not very useful for music browsing on the iPhone,)

    Can you chose sound out for the HomePod to some other AirPlay device? If so, how is this done?
     
  17. priitv8 macrumors 68040

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    Estonia
    #17
    But isn't the Apple Music integrated into the Music app?
    How would having it in the iTunes Remote app make it different?
    What I like most about the iTunes Remote app is that I can browse my iTunes library on my MacMini and set it to AirPlay to appleTV, without iPhone inbetween.
     
  18. _oneworld_ macrumors newbie

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    Jan 30, 2019
    #18
    Yes it's integrated in the app, but not reachable/controllable from the iTunes Remote app, that has it's origin from pre AppleMusic. If the iTunes remote also could reach/search Apple Music in the same way iTunes (or Music app on ATV) can , I would have what I want:
    browse my music AND Apple Music (with radio) from my iPhone and iPad but on the Mac
    AND
    chose channel for output for Mac on iPhone/iPad
    (or replace Mac with AppleTV)

    seems I have to chose between (remote use from iPad/iPhone)
    being able to chose output speaker and be limited to my Library (on the mac)
    play whatever I want from my music and Apple Music on the TV (using Music app on iThing) , but not being able to select speaker unless I turn on TV
     
  19. iSayuSay, Jan 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019

    iSayuSay macrumors 68040

    iSayuSay

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    #19
    Actually, your post made me recheck and apparently you CAN choose where to throw the audio from your Apple TV. My bad for not digging a bit deeper. I rarely throw playback from Apple TV because it's connected with HDMI through my AV receiver, which is the primary audio player in the house. So I wasn't aware that it can be done only by Control Center. Again, my apology.

    Here's a few screenshots:
    (Please take note that in my case BEDROOM = HomePod, and THEATER = AppleTV)

    Choose Apple TV from Music Control Center, then select the "AirPlay" button as highlighted below. YES this is the same button you find on your iPhone music control.

    atv_out1.jpg

    From there you can choose where to throw the audio from Apple TV to your desired AirPlay speakers. I can't speak for Bluetooth speakers though as I don't have one here at home. You may try connecting a Bluetooth speaker to your Apple TV and see whether it appears on the list.

    atv_out.jpg

    HomePod can also do the same thing. In short YES you may control the playback, choose any track, and AirPlay the sound anywhere inside your home network. Either from HomePod to ATV, and vise versa. AirPlay 2.0 compatible speakers also allow multi room playback. Here's a proof

    hompod_out.jpg

    Oh, and also Siri on HomePod can also help you throw the sound anywhere. Just make sure you rename your AirPlay devices accordingly. You may tell Siri to "play this on Theater Apple TV" or "play this on Kitchen HomePod" and it will throw the music accordingly.

    Hope that clear things up for you.
     
  20. _oneworld_, Jan 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019

    _oneworld_ macrumors newbie

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    #20
    This is what I had expected. Unfortunately this does not work for me.

    (TV is Whatever and iLike is the Mac that also runs a AirServer for AirPlay.)

    The iPhone box in Music Control Center shows all devices
    iPhone.jpg

    but the TV box does not:
    ATV.jjpg.jpg


    All devices fully updated. So something IS buggy here.
    Clearly the TV can see all devices, but will not show them in the Music Control Center.
     
  21. Ritsuka macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    That feature requires airplay 2, if your device supports only airplay 1 it won't show in that list.
     
  22. iSayuSay, Jan 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019

    iSayuSay macrumors 68040

    iSayuSay

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    #22
    Yep read the post above me. Your “AudioPro” and “iLike” aren’t AirPlay 2.0 capable because you cannot see the checkbox sign with those two. Notice how they’re different from “Whatever” apple tv on your iPhone
    View attachment 819269

    Airplay 2.0 speakers allow you to choose freely for multiroom playback, while your AudioPro and iLike speaker aren’t, so each can only receive single throw but not streaming anywhere else. I know it’s weird since iTunes can stream into multiple non-airplay 2.0 speakers. Maybe it’s just another reason to force you upgrade? Lol

    That’s why Control Center wouldn’t let you throw audio from apple tv onto your audiopro nor emulated airserver.
     
  23. _oneworld_ macrumors newbie

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    Jan 30, 2019
    #23
    ( iLike is the Mac running AirServer which is AirPlay 1. )

    Really silly that you cannot chose an Airplay 1 speaker via Music Control when controlling the AppleTV, while you can chose it on the TV. i really can't se why this limitation was set. I know I cannot chose multiple speaker, but you should at least be able to chose one.

    And I just found out that my newly bought well sounding speaker will not ever run AirPlay 2.
    :-(
    New model coming this year will though...

    Thank u all for the help.
     
  24. iSayuSay macrumors 68040

    iSayuSay

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    #24
    Yes I could see the inconsistency here and there.

    Apple could’ve fix that with future iOS updates but I wouldn’t hold my breath for that. Apple tends to leave and ignore old standard (i.e: Airplay 1) behind

    Well, at least you may now just remoting music on Apple TV from the iPhone, all without turning on the TV. It really is better than the old Remote app.

    I really hope to see iTunes on the PC/Mac appears and be controlled via Control Center as well.

    Enjoy!
     

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