Who the f buys an Apple just b/c it's an apple?? That is not why we buy them, again it's about a better computer and OS and security...
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Convincing my Dad to Go MAC
- Thread starter Dedic8d2hockey
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Who the f buys an Apple just b/c it's an apple?? That is not why we buy them, again it's about a better computer and OS and security...
Here's my opinion:
You're spending extra money on a MacBook, just to run Windows XP in VMWare?
I run WinXP on my MacBook Pro 2.8Ghz, via Parallels - it loads/starts fast, and runs relatively smoothly, although there can be a delay between clicking a folder icon in explorer, and seeing the window open. The windows applications run fine though.
I hate the MacBook Pro keyboard for typing. The keys are shallow, and skiddy, making it easy to hit the wrong letter when typing fast, and whilst APPLE+LEFT and APPLE+RIGHT equate to HOME and END keys in many applications, it doesn't work in all applications. Pressing shortcuts for Page Up and Page Down, often take you to the very end of a document, or very beginning, instead of just scrolling one whole screen, and you have to hold in the Function Key to turn backspace into delete - there is no seperate delete key. =/ A lot of these seperate hotkey combinations then don't work when running Windows XP in Parallels, so you have to seek out keyboard remapping software, to get HOME, END, PGDN, PGUP functions on your Windows running Mac.
You seem to already really want a Mac - well - if that's the case, you should know why you want one, and thus already have some reasons to give your Dad. If you can't think of a reason to actually have one, and you just want one because you want one, =P, that strikes me as a bit shallow.
In my experience, Macs are good for:
Video Editing
Desktop Publishing
Photography work
Graphic Design
Music Composition
Web Browsing
Video on Demand
PCs are good for:
Typing
Web Development
3D Rendering
Videogames
Macs overlook some simple things you take for granted on PC. My latest frustration has been no way to refresh a Finder window that's connected to a PC folder via samba, over a network. Ergo, if a new file is saved to the shared PC folder, I can't see it on my Mac without disconnecting and reconnecting.
Macs do give you the best of both worlds, however, with their ability to run Windows.
And so far I've had none of the registry/spyware/system-slowing-down-after-the-first-few-months problems all my cheap PC laptop owning friends seem to have.
However, if you really wanna benefit from getting a Mac, you ought to learn to make the most of the Mac OS, rather than seeking to just use it as an expensive windows machine.
Mac OSX does lack some essential details, that Windows has had in place for sometime, but Mac OSX does what it does faster, and better, than Windows, so most people don't miss the details OSX skimps out on.
That said, both operating systems are useless without useful software.
I dare say, as a student, you'll probably find a lot of pirate software floating about, and may be able to get what you need gratius. If not, then it's gonna be an extra expense, which could make the premium for a Mac even more questionable....
What I've tended to do in the past, is pop onto ebay, and look for second hand Macs, which are usually already loaded with all the software you need, all ready to go, and can be considerably cheaper too. The only thing to watch out for, is that PowerPC Macs will not run Windows, only the Intel Macs - so if you go for a second hand one, and want to run windows on it, make sure it's one with an Intel processor.
The biggest reason to give your Dad, is that it's likely to last longer and perform better than a cheap PC laptop.
You're spending extra money on a MacBook, just to run Windows XP in VMWare?
I run WinXP on my MacBook Pro 2.8Ghz, via Parallels - it loads/starts fast, and runs relatively smoothly, although there can be a delay between clicking a folder icon in explorer, and seeing the window open. The windows applications run fine though.
I hate the MacBook Pro keyboard for typing. The keys are shallow, and skiddy, making it easy to hit the wrong letter when typing fast, and whilst APPLE+LEFT and APPLE+RIGHT equate to HOME and END keys in many applications, it doesn't work in all applications. Pressing shortcuts for Page Up and Page Down, often take you to the very end of a document, or very beginning, instead of just scrolling one whole screen, and you have to hold in the Function Key to turn backspace into delete - there is no seperate delete key. =/ A lot of these seperate hotkey combinations then don't work when running Windows XP in Parallels, so you have to seek out keyboard remapping software, to get HOME, END, PGDN, PGUP functions on your Windows running Mac.
You seem to already really want a Mac - well - if that's the case, you should know why you want one, and thus already have some reasons to give your Dad. If you can't think of a reason to actually have one, and you just want one because you want one, =P, that strikes me as a bit shallow.
In my experience, Macs are good for:
Video Editing
Desktop Publishing
Photography work
Graphic Design
Music Composition
Web Browsing
Video on Demand
PCs are good for:
Typing
Web Development
3D Rendering
Videogames
Macs overlook some simple things you take for granted on PC. My latest frustration has been no way to refresh a Finder window that's connected to a PC folder via samba, over a network. Ergo, if a new file is saved to the shared PC folder, I can't see it on my Mac without disconnecting and reconnecting.
Macs do give you the best of both worlds, however, with their ability to run Windows.
And so far I've had none of the registry/spyware/system-slowing-down-after-the-first-few-months problems all my cheap PC laptop owning friends seem to have.
However, if you really wanna benefit from getting a Mac, you ought to learn to make the most of the Mac OS, rather than seeking to just use it as an expensive windows machine.
Mac OSX does lack some essential details, that Windows has had in place for sometime, but Mac OSX does what it does faster, and better, than Windows, so most people don't miss the details OSX skimps out on.
That said, both operating systems are useless without useful software.
I dare say, as a student, you'll probably find a lot of pirate software floating about, and may be able to get what you need gratius. If not, then it's gonna be an extra expense, which could make the premium for a Mac even more questionable....
What I've tended to do in the past, is pop onto ebay, and look for second hand Macs, which are usually already loaded with all the software you need, all ready to go, and can be considerably cheaper too. The only thing to watch out for, is that PowerPC Macs will not run Windows, only the Intel Macs - so if you go for a second hand one, and want to run windows on it, make sure it's one with an Intel processor.
The biggest reason to give your Dad, is that it's likely to last longer and perform better than a cheap PC laptop.
You would be disappointed with the answer to this...
And another excellent post, this time by ajmetz. Keep up the good (objective) work.
Really?? I guess as a stock holder I'm glad, but as a person I'm disgusted. Behold the power of branding.
I still say it is best to buy based on what is best, and for me and others I know, OS X is a quality OS far above and beyond Windows.
He asked for help to "convince" his dad to get him a Mac, genius. Next time, don't even bother writing anything. It's obvious you have no clue about Mac and OS X.
A Mom's two cents
My son convinced me to budget $1,500 for his college pc. I gave him the money and he spent $600 on a pc. By the end of freshman year the hard drive had failed. He worked all summer and bought a re-furbished Mac with AppleCare. Now close to graduation, his MacBook still hums along. It has had its moments at the genius bar, but nothing fatal. Tell your Dad it is far cheaper to buy one Mac than a series of pcs.
My son convinced me to budget $1,500 for his college pc. I gave him the money and he spent $600 on a pc. By the end of freshman year the hard drive had failed. He worked all summer and bought a re-furbished Mac with AppleCare. Now close to graduation, his MacBook still hums along. It has had its moments at the genius bar, but nothing fatal. Tell your Dad it is far cheaper to buy one Mac than a series of pcs.
Hmm.. Potentially, this is my new favourite Fanboy quote. Macs are so good they actually make you do better presentations. "Ive never seen a bad Keynote presentation"....
Embarrassing.
Thank you to all the replied!
A few comments: I know OS X is the best operating system around and I love it very much (my gf has a MBP) and I am not wanting a mac because of the looks or any stupid thing like that (even though they are sexy machines)
I need to run Fusion for XP for some programs I run that are windows only, but that is the ONLY reason I wouldn't be on OS X.
As for price, I went to bestbuy, who sells both mac and pc and the most equivalent to a mac was a $1000 Dell Studio XPS. By the time I add warranty ($335), Anti-Virus (75 per year) and Office (150) that alone is more than a macbook.
Please let me know if i missed any valid arguments.
A few comments: I know OS X is the best operating system around and I love it very much (my gf has a MBP) and I am not wanting a mac because of the looks or any stupid thing like that (even though they are sexy machines)
I need to run Fusion for XP for some programs I run that are windows only, but that is the ONLY reason I wouldn't be on OS X.
As for price, I went to bestbuy, who sells both mac and pc and the most equivalent to a mac was a $1000 Dell Studio XPS. By the time I add warranty ($335), Anti-Virus (75 per year) and Office (150) that alone is more than a macbook.
Please let me know if i missed any valid arguments.
You have to consider Applecare at $300, AVG Antivirus is free, and Office is $130 for Mac.
I was planning on getting AppleCare, which is only $180 for a macbook.
Instead of paying for office, i was going to do openoffice or similar. (my dad doesnt have to know that I can get it for mac or pc free)
Instead of paying for office, i was going to do openoffice or similar. (my dad doesnt have to know that I can get it for mac or pc free)
If you wanted, you can purchase AppleCare at a later date -- because the computer comes with one year of AppleCare. As long as you purchase the extended plan anytime within the first year of ownership, you'll be fine.
Only thing is: don't forget to get it.
As for applecare, how much is your computer covered without. I FULLY INTEND TO PURCHASE APPLECARE, but if I delayed in doing so and something happened while I didn't have it, what type of coverage should I expect?
You realize that hard drives can fail on a Mac right? Apple doesn't make their own hard drives or sprinkle fairy dust on it to make it last longer. In fact, they use the exact same drives found in other manufacturers products such as HP, Dell, Toshiba, Sony, etc.
Full coverage. You can wait all 364 days, and the only thing that wouldn't be the same as if you purchased AppleCare right away is you lose phone support after 90 days. But once you buy AC, you get phone support again. So, I suggest maybe buying AC within 90 days of purchase.
Edit: let me rephrase. You get AppleCare for the first year, free. Full support/warranty, except the phone support ends after 90 days. As long as you purchase the option for AppleCare to continue another two years during that first year, you'll continue to get the full warranty, and phone support. Hence why it may be better to buy AC within the first 90 days, but you must purchase it within the year after the machine purchase.
Wahoo- that makes sense, but when I did the chat on apple.com they said it was limited warranty?
Another question, If i don't order extra memory (4gb) initially with my Macbook, how much does apple charge for theirs in store?
Another question, If i don't order extra memory (4gb) initially with my Macbook, how much does apple charge for theirs in store?
The limited warranty is the one year. The two extra years after that is the purchasable apple care. As far as memory, it would be cheaper to purchase at a later date from Other World Computing.
It's a limited one year warranty because you lose the phone support after 90 days. That's the only "limit" on the warranty if you don't purchase AppleCare within 90 days. As soon as you purchase AppleCare within that year, your phone support remains until the end of the AppleCare warranty.
If you have the money, ask your Dad to give you whatever he would have spent on a computer and add your own money to that. Technically you're not making him pay extra, and you're using your own money. Say if doing this is truly a mistake, then you'll learn. If it isn't a mistake, he's not paying or losing anything except whatever he would have spent anyway.
Also, don't forget the education discount ($50). If you do want to buy an office program you could always buy iWork, which is much less than MS Office and is compatible with any MS Office format.
I agree that you should buy the base ram and buy from OWC or Crucial. They are both very good and you can get 4 GB ram for under $50. You'll definitely want that for Vmware. You'll also get up to $100 ( I think, maybe $50) back if you get a printer at the same time as your Macbook.
Mac: $1040 total with 4 GB ram, VMware, and Open/Neo Office. + free ipod and printer
A PC: $600 (initial) + $50 (ram) + free(open/neo Office) + $80/year (Norton all-in-one) = $730 total for year one. And you're out the ipod and printer.
After 4 years of college (and new ipod $100 and printer $75) = $1145 total and you have to use Vista instead of the upcoming Snow Leopard.
I agree that you should buy the base ram and buy from OWC or Crucial. They are both very good and you can get 4 GB ram for under $50. You'll definitely want that for Vmware. You'll also get up to $100 ( I think, maybe $50) back if you get a printer at the same time as your Macbook.
Mac: $1040 total with 4 GB ram, VMware, and Open/Neo Office. + free ipod and printer
A PC: $600 (initial) + $50 (ram) + free(open/neo Office) + $80/year (Norton all-in-one) = $730 total for year one. And you're out the ipod and printer.
After 4 years of college (and new ipod $100 and printer $75) = $1145 total and you have to use Vista instead of the upcoming Snow Leopard.
Here is what I sent my dad (along with other info). I still need to add in VMWare Fusion, and XP, but I will grab those on my own.
Best Buy (prices compiled online and instore collectively)
$999 Dell XPS Studio 13.3 2.4ghz with 4gb RAM/320 GB HD
$150 Optimize (gets off crap they come with) and Anti Virus(1 Year)
$175 Anti-Virus and Spyware (2 Years)
$250 3 year warranty
$150 Microsoft Office
$1724 Total
Apple (all prices from Apple.com with Education Discount) Dow discount may be bigger
$1589 2.4 ghz 13.3 Macbook with 4gb RAM/ 250GB HD
$41 iWork 09 (All of the Microsoft Office Programs)
$183 AppleCare (3 year warranty- Rated #1 in the business)
$1813 Total
l
****Each Apple has the option of a free printer. They are $100, with a $100 Rebate when ordered with the computer online.
Alans Top Reasons for a Mac:
Virus protection huge when at school and doing daily work
Operating System- Mac OS 10 is the most efficient OS around. Microsoft Vista BLOWS!
Speed- Even though they are the same specs for speed, Macs benchmarks (speed) are regularly clocked way faster = greater productivity
Reliability- they dont stop running efficiently after a few months like most PCs
Customer Service- #1 for years!
Construction- PCs are made from a zillion different pieces. Apples are aluminum cut from 1 piece more sturdy, better for the environment
When prices are compared with antivirus, warranty, and needed software, they are very comparable. Macs win this debate because they hold their value. You can sell a 3-4 year old mac for decent money, a 3 to 4 year old PC wont.
THEY LOOK DAMN PRETTY!
Best Buy (prices compiled online and instore collectively)
$999 Dell XPS Studio 13.3 2.4ghz with 4gb RAM/320 GB HD
$150 Optimize (gets off crap they come with) and Anti Virus(1 Year)
$175 Anti-Virus and Spyware (2 Years)
$250 3 year warranty
$150 Microsoft Office
$1724 Total
Apple (all prices from Apple.com with Education Discount) Dow discount may be bigger
$1589 2.4 ghz 13.3 Macbook with 4gb RAM/ 250GB HD
$41 iWork 09 (All of the Microsoft Office Programs)
$183 AppleCare (3 year warranty- Rated #1 in the business)
$1813 Total
l
****Each Apple has the option of a free printer. They are $100, with a $100 Rebate when ordered with the computer online.
Alans Top Reasons for a Mac:
Virus protection huge when at school and doing daily work
Operating System- Mac OS 10 is the most efficient OS around. Microsoft Vista BLOWS!
Speed- Even though they are the same specs for speed, Macs benchmarks (speed) are regularly clocked way faster = greater productivity
Reliability- they dont stop running efficiently after a few months like most PCs
Customer Service- #1 for years!
Construction- PCs are made from a zillion different pieces. Apples are aluminum cut from 1 piece more sturdy, better for the environment
When prices are compared with antivirus, warranty, and needed software, they are very comparable. Macs win this debate because they hold their value. You can sell a 3-4 year old mac for decent money, a 3 to 4 year old PC wont.
THEY LOOK DAMN PRETTY!
Also to let you know you can buy MS Office through your school at a greatly reduced price. Through UMUC I can get MS Office 08 for Mac or PC for $49.00. You can also sign up for a student developer program, costs $99, but gets you a 20% reduction in price on most apple machines. If all you want is the low end iMac or Macbooks (non-pro) you're better off just getting the standard student discount.
I have PC's and I have a new MBP, I find myself spending most of my time within OSX on my MBP. I second the idea one person said earlier, have your dad pay for the portion that he'd already be willing to pay - you come up with the rest. It's the sure-fire way to get him to concede.
I also understand that you can find a PC that will meet your needs, be upfront with your dad, or he'll think you're trying to pull the wool over his eyes. Since your GF has a MBP, have her bring it over and let you dad play with it for a bit and let him see why YOU want a Mac so bad.
I have PC's and I have a new MBP, I find myself spending most of my time within OSX on my MBP. I second the idea one person said earlier, have your dad pay for the portion that he'd already be willing to pay - you come up with the rest. It's the sure-fire way to get him to concede.
I also understand that you can find a PC that will meet your needs, be upfront with your dad, or he'll think you're trying to pull the wool over his eyes. Since your GF has a MBP, have her bring it over and let you dad play with it for a bit and let him see why YOU want a Mac so bad.
Revelation- Good point about office, I will check into that here at school.
As for my dad, he is completely computer illiterate. I will have to walk through everything I sent him and explain it all in dumbed down ways. He has only been sending emails and the like for a few years, so basically if i can smooth talk my way into some help with this, i should be golden. I pay 24k each year MYSELF for tuition and he pays none of it, so I am using this as the "help with education" angle.
As for my dad, he is completely computer illiterate. I will have to walk through everything I sent him and explain it all in dumbed down ways. He has only been sending emails and the like for a few years, so basically if i can smooth talk my way into some help with this, i should be golden. I pay 24k each year MYSELF for tuition and he pays none of it, so I am using this as the "help with education" angle.