There was something on consumer reports a while ago that said that apple was the best in customer support. That way if it breaks, you can get it repaired more easily. You could also show him the cnet scores of comparable laptops compared to the macbook and show him that it gets better ratings.
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Convincing my Dad to Go MAC
- Thread starter Dedic8d2hockey
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yeah...there's only about 4 or 5 hard-drive manufacturers and they're all about the same. Honestly, all these computers are prone to break pretty much the same b\c most use the same off the shelf parts. Its more how the company deals with it when you want something fixed.
What obvious Kool Aid drinkers some of you people are. Yeah, that's it - Windows PCs are all unreliable and never work right. Sure, I saw that kind of nonsense in Mac commercials too. Funny thing is, my PCs -- all of them for the past 10+ years -- have never given me any problems. They always work just fine. Good grief.
Hmmm interesting topic. Given that your Dad is willing to buy you a PC that's a lot. Maybe what you need to do is take him to a Mac store and show him exactly what you would like and have him try the software. If he has been a Windows user for most of his life, it's seriously going to freak him out with how nice and clean it all looks and runs. Granted I build my own Windows Machines, I'm getting my first Mac(Mini) here soon. I'll probably always be more of a Windows guy than Mac, but I'm doing this so I can have that platform to also develop software on.
One thing I would say is avoid pulling out the I'm paying for my own schooling card, he'll come back saying then why don't you buy your own computer and that could blow up in your face.
Although one thing I would like to point out on the Dell side to be fair to them.
$999 Dell XPS Studio 13.3 2.4ghz with 4gb RAM/320 GB HD
$150 Optimize (gets off crap they come with) and Anti Virus(1 Year)
$175 Anti-Virus and Spyware (2 Years)
Don't buy the Optimize and Anti-Virus software, you can get AVG Free and Spybot which do the same thing for free, also have Dell send you the Original Windows Vista 64Bit Media and Drivers so you can install the OS and Drivers yourself. It's easy. Saves you $325
$250 3 year warranty
$150 Microsoft Office (Don't buy Microsoft Office, your school may have the student edition for $25. Not sure on Mac. Or just get Open Office which is free. They also have a Mac version too!)
$1724 Total ($1274, if you do what I suggest for this machine)
Two of your points I would like to knock out.
Vista -Rock Solid on my main machine, I run Vista 64bit Ultimate edition, runs very nicely, have had very few issues. The amount of memory makes a big difference and having 4 Gigabytes really does wonders.
Reliability - Both machines will be reliable for you. It's how you take care of the machine. I've seen folks buy a Windows PC, treat it like dirt and barely take care of the machine. Then they get a Mac and start treating it like some magical horse that can talk.
Now granted I'm not happy about having to run updates every Tuesday and letting my machine defrag every Wednesday(does it when I sleep so no loss), it still runs great for me. I think a lot of people need to re-evaluate Windows Vista.
Ether way, you'll be fine. You'll save a little more on the Dell machine if you go my route or you'll end up with a Mac and still do good.
One thing I would say is avoid pulling out the I'm paying for my own schooling card, he'll come back saying then why don't you buy your own computer and that could blow up in your face.
Although one thing I would like to point out on the Dell side to be fair to them.
$999 Dell XPS Studio 13.3 2.4ghz with 4gb RAM/320 GB HD
$150 Optimize (gets off crap they come with) and Anti Virus(1 Year)
$175 Anti-Virus and Spyware (2 Years)
Don't buy the Optimize and Anti-Virus software, you can get AVG Free and Spybot which do the same thing for free, also have Dell send you the Original Windows Vista 64Bit Media and Drivers so you can install the OS and Drivers yourself. It's easy. Saves you $325
$250 3 year warranty
$150 Microsoft Office (Don't buy Microsoft Office, your school may have the student edition for $25. Not sure on Mac. Or just get Open Office which is free. They also have a Mac version too!)
$1724 Total ($1274, if you do what I suggest for this machine)
Two of your points I would like to knock out.
Vista -Rock Solid on my main machine, I run Vista 64bit Ultimate edition, runs very nicely, have had very few issues. The amount of memory makes a big difference and having 4 Gigabytes really does wonders.
Reliability - Both machines will be reliable for you. It's how you take care of the machine. I've seen folks buy a Windows PC, treat it like dirt and barely take care of the machine. Then they get a Mac and start treating it like some magical horse that can talk.
Now granted I'm not happy about having to run updates every Tuesday and letting my machine defrag every Wednesday(does it when I sleep so no loss), it still runs great for me. I think a lot of people need to re-evaluate Windows Vista.
Ether way, you'll be fine. You'll save a little more on the Dell machine if you go my route or you'll end up with a Mac and still do good.
You are taking this a little extreme. PCs are much more of a hassle. They take longer to boot (fact) and longer to shut down (fact). If you don't want viruses, you must buy antivirus software. Windows the OS is unreliable, the hardware (Intel, AMD, ATI, NVIDIA, etc) is stable. Windows is based on proprietary APIs and kernel. Mac OS X is base upon UNIX, which is much more rock solid and stable/secure than any Windows version will be.
Really? I think you're a victim of that same marketing.
Seriously, tell me precisely what makes OS X better than Windows Vista? Remember, we're talking about Vista here, not XP. Windows XP is 2001... You know, 8 years ago.
So please tell me exactly what makes OS X better, since I am actually curious.
Thanks
That's my point exactly. I think he should look at the Dell again instead of just going with the status quo. People need to start thinking for themselves. I have a legitimate reason for getting a Mac so I can develop games for it, but I'm also doing that on the Windows PC side too so I can reach more people.
One thing that has me give Apple the evil eye is how they really low-ball folks on Hardware. Memory is cheap, why not start the base Macbook at 4 Gigabytes instead of 2. What gives on the Video Cards they put into these machines. The Mini I can understand, the iMac I can't and the Pro I can't ether. Are you paying for Hardware or Metal. With Windows 7 around the corner, I think Apple may have to start looking harder at what Hardware they are offering in these machines. Although with the 9400M from Nvidia and ditching the Intel Video Chip was a good move on Apples part. They need to do more things like that.
Exrtreme? Boot time has much more to do with the system and its configuration rather than the OS itself. You're talking about boot times? Is that the measure of how good an OS or computer is? Good Lord. My XPS720 boots fully in about 20 seconds. That's plenty fast for me.
Explain to me why Windows Vista is unreliable. You seem to have lots of "facts" without any explanation. I've had Vista on this machine and my laptop since June, 2008 - not a single system lockup, crash, or virus. Nothing. Zilch. My systems perform as quickly and smoothly as the day I installed the OSes. This machine stays running 24/7 - it's used for photo editing, graphics work, and even games. This system is not what I would call a bare bones configuration either - it's a RAID1 system with dual video cards in SLI. I'm running Vista Home Premium 32-bit.
I also find it amusing here that many refer to XP as an example of "running Windows". XP works just fine, though keep in mind that you're running an 8-year old OS. Even Vista is considered old now, and will be replaced within a year. Vista had its birthing issues the same way Leopard did.
No, Vista is not perfect, no OS is. I never had issues with XP either. I think most "problems" with Windows are greatly exaggerated in this forum, and as for viruses - that tends to be the fault of the user in most cases. Are you trying to tell me that OS X is immune to viruses?
Again, I'm being sincere in my question, what is it that makes Windows so unreliable, in your opinion? Where's the added hassle of a Windows system verses an Apple system? Yes, I use both in my profession (magazine editor and photographer) and I find both to work for me just fine, though different. Both OSes have their merits. Please expand on that comment with real facts.
And yeah, I like Macs too - I actually think they are great. I think they are fantastic machines in every respect. But objectivity seems to be in very short supply here.
Well you know its security! Id love to hear why it is so much better. And when I ask that, I am saying SPECIFIC details, with HARD FACTS backing them up.
Not just because "you heard" from someone. If you're going to boast something, please lets hear WHY.
As iNikon said, compairing xp to vista is like comparing xp to WFW, its just a illogical compairison.
Waits........
Jesse
Ether Operating System is reliable. It's what makes sense money wise, time wise and you personal preference. You can screw up OS X just as good and even though it's Unix underlying platform is very stable, it's also very complex.
Also, as for security wise, if Apple had come up with the perfect OS, why are they having to release Security updates just the same as Microsoft is doing for Vista.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1222
Don't just drink the Kool-Aid, look at it first and make sure it's the flavor and brand you really want first.
Also, as for security wise, if Apple had come up with the perfect OS, why are they having to release Security updates just the same as Microsoft is doing for Vista.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1222
Don't just drink the Kool-Aid, look at it first and make sure it's the flavor and brand you really want first.
This is a flawed comparison. You can still buy brand name clothing at WalMart and for even less than what these places are charging you. So what you are saying is that if WalMart sold a Samsung Blu-ray player model 49P-X that was plain but still played Blu-ray movies and if H&M(Sorry don't know the place) sold you a Samsung Blu-ray player that had diamonds all over it called 49D-X and was the same spec but had diamonds on it, that somehow it's better?
I think you really need to re-evaluate some things.
I appreciate the response, so here are some quick replies:
1. No BIOS modifications whatsoever.
2. Vista actually maintains itself - I really don't do a thing to it. It has fantastic housekeeping abilities. A Vista user does not need to do a thing to maintain it. Nothing.
3. Mac OS does indeed have viruses (specifically, the iChat virus comes to mind here). Obviously, if it becomes more popular, more viruses will take aim at the Mac OS. I'm sure you know this is a matter of market share, not OS security.
4. Trialware is not a Windows issue, it's a PC vendor issue. Of course, Apple builds its systems and sells the OS, however, Apple systems are generally much more costly than PCs of equal computing power.
Higher end PCs generally do not have trialware - my XPS desktop did not have any, nor did my XPS laptop. Fortunately, people can choose what they want pre-installed on higher end systems.
I believe the Apple hardware is beautiful to look at, and very few PCs can compare in this department. I also think the Mac OS is very well integrated and it does what it does very well. Windows is different, though it accomplishes the same thing. All industry-standard applications (Photoshop, etc.) perform so closely, it's a moot point.
I use both, I like both.
1. No BIOS modifications whatsoever.
2. Vista actually maintains itself - I really don't do a thing to it. It has fantastic housekeeping abilities. A Vista user does not need to do a thing to maintain it. Nothing.
3. Mac OS does indeed have viruses (specifically, the iChat virus comes to mind here). Obviously, if it becomes more popular, more viruses will take aim at the Mac OS. I'm sure you know this is a matter of market share, not OS security.
4. Trialware is not a Windows issue, it's a PC vendor issue. Of course, Apple builds its systems and sells the OS, however, Apple systems are generally much more costly than PCs of equal computing power.
Higher end PCs generally do not have trialware - my XPS desktop did not have any, nor did my XPS laptop. Fortunately, people can choose what they want pre-installed on higher end systems.
I believe the Apple hardware is beautiful to look at, and very few PCs can compare in this department. I also think the Mac OS is very well integrated and it does what it does very well. Windows is different, though it accomplishes the same thing. All industry-standard applications (Photoshop, etc.) perform so closely, it's a moot point.
I use both, I like both.
1. Ok, I just wanted to ask because half my friends basically screw their BIOS over to get a faster boot time and often crash their PCs.
2. I haven't used Vista that much, but from the half year or so of using it I got a couple BSoDs and funny behavior. I never actually tried out it's "housekeeping abilities" but glad to know there are some.
3. Mac OS does not have viruses.
4. Macs cost about the same, and sometimes less depending the PC vendor. Even if it's the vendors issue for trialware, it's still there unless I build my own PC, which requires time and effort. It depends on the vendor for what you said. Some put alot on, some don't, etc. I favor Macs because it's just easier to use in general. I was forever lost in the control panel and the different views. System Prefs is very simple however. I do use Windows as well, but I believe that for quality and customer service/support, Apple wins. Their designs are very fashionable but also useable. Windows comes in many varieties, only some catch my eye, but others are designed poorly.
@Snow - You are not being objective of the OS that you use. You need to do better research. Saying something isn't true isn't true all by itself. You need to backup with proof. It better helps your case. However you do realize that you also need to look at what we are saying as well and look further into what we are saying by actually going out and searching for this stuff. We are not making this stuff up.
I put down the Kool-Aid many years ago when I got an Xbox over a PS2. Why not you?
I put down the Kool-Aid many years ago when I got an Xbox over a PS2. Why not you?
actually it's more a matter of the end user being an idiot or not. You cite two articles about the same incident from 2006 as evidence that security is a function of market share, which is a) laughable and b) clearly wrong. The Unix framework ensures that processes that affect the system directly can only be executed with user authorization. Not sure how Vista handles the analagous situation, but previous versions of Windows let you run executables all day without asking for any kind of authorization.
That being said, most computer infection problems are of the 90/40 type... 90% of the problem is 40 cm from the monitor.
I have to fully agrre with thejadedmonkey. You want an Apple computer, because you will be not cool, if you don't have it? Sorry, wrong thinking.
If you have the money on your own, than fine, go out and buy the Mac. But because it's your dad's money, try to think rational and economical.
And for those who say/write all the time: uhhh, PCs are so unstable etc. I don't know what you are doing with your PCs... maybe, there is another problem: the overall hype of Apple products. You want to be part of it. They are "in". If you don't own one, you loose your status in your "colleges" eyes... sorry, but that's ********.
@to the OP:
One thing you forget to mention: what programs/applications you will/want to you on your new computer? What do you want to do with it. There were not a single post, where this was mentioned. You only wrote: how to convince my dad, to buy a Mac?
Some of you people in this thread, are so rediculously biased its not funny. The sad part is, you dont even realize it.
I cant say I disagree with soulman's post when he said "Don't just drink the Kool-Aid, look at it first and make sure it's the flavor and brand you really want first. "
Jesse
I cant say I disagree with soulman's post when he said "Don't just drink the Kool-Aid, look at it first and make sure it's the flavor and brand you really want first. "
Jesse
Easiest way to convince my dad to go mac was to do less talking and go and buy him one. I knew he'd never buy one himself.
Bought him a low-end iMac a few years ago after the Intel transition and got him setup with boot camp to make him feel at home. Glad to say that 2-3 years later he's now exclusively mac and loves it.
Bought him a low-end iMac a few years ago after the Intel transition and got him setup with boot camp to make him feel at home. Glad to say that 2-3 years later he's now exclusively mac and loves it.
If you don't know for yourself why a Mac would be better in your particular situation then perhaps it wouldn't.
I pay more money to get a macbook pro for various reasons, but it's my own money and my own choice.
No they didn't. Windows 2000 / XP's problem wasn't that it couldn't be locked down in this way (which is what you imply above), but rather due to the culture of the older windows systems and a need for backwards compatibility with programs that were designed and coded 15 years ago and were frankly regarded as a bit of a kludge even during their heyday, people run windows as the equivalent of root all the time.
You don't got no security under *nix if you run as root all the time, either.
There's nothing special and magical about Unix in this regard, most of the stuff that people mistake for special magic is down to more disciplined user behaviour, which is mostly a cultural thing. The first well known major piece of internet malware targetted unix.
At the end of the day, what's important to most people is their data, and a malware author doesn't need root to break your heart.
Don't throw any daggers my way =P
I've read a bunch of these posts, but not enough to attack anyone and I wouldn't try to do that anyways. Instead, I'm going to post some views of my own
Background: I'm in my early 20s (weird to say...) and I grew up on DOS (back when blue screens were a good thing!) and Windows95, but used Macs in school up until XP came out, then everything in my life went PC for good, until now, when I'm reconsidering a Mac.
So why did I stick for PC so long? Mainly it was my dad and when we got a computer as kids, it was a Dell or HP or (gasp) Compaq. At school, I was told to use the Macintosh/iMac and that's what I did. At that age, I found OSX weird because I had been already used to DOS/Win95, but I quickly picked up on the Macs. Maybe that's why they used them in school over PCs: they were the easiest for a simple minded 5th grader to learn.
Today, I think people stick with Windows because it's a familiar territory. Like everyone has said, it does the things you want, mostly when you want them to. User stupidity has a lot to do with how poorly a machine operates. But most people these days have had interaction with a system with Windows on it, just because mass-using places (companies, schools, libraries) can't afford Macs and just go with the $500 Dell. Therefor, most people can get by when they buy a PC.
Now, a Mac on the other hand, can be great for certain purposes too. It's easy to learn, does neat little tricks that are already built in (Photo Booth, GB, etc), and have great build quality. And people, like me, who still need to run 1-2 Windows programs, can do so easily even on a Mac.
However, is a Mac for everyone? HAH. NO. Plain and simple. Some people really like Windows Vista. I find it cumbersome to work in and really don't enjoy it, but that's why I've stuck with XP, and will go to Windows7 next. I'm not switching to Mac just because I dislike Vista, there are other options. And some people just can't afford a Mac in these times. Heavy Windows users also won't benefit much from a Mac at all (I love the people on here who say they'll be primarily booting into BootCamp...I don't even know if I'll partion my HD for Windows, all I use is MathCad/Matlab, especially with Sims3 coming with a Mac version).
Also, neither can dodge viruses. But it takes a lot more effort to get one on a Mac than a PC it seems like. We had an email go out with a virus, and even with Norton, I still managed to pick up some Malware. Friends with Macs saw nothing. Could there be huge outside reasons why this happened, not just that "Mac > PC"? Sure. But for users who just need a computer, on the surface, Mac is going to be way more appealing.
To the OP: If you're looking to get a Mac because they're pretty machines and fun/easy to use and you want one to have on, they're fine reasons to get one as long as you can afford it and it's a smart long-term investment. No one should hate on you for wanting something nice. However, if you're not going to also get good use out of it, you should maybe rethink you're decision. There are plenty of fine PCs out there that you can get for a little less, and you don't necessarily need the top spec computer it sounds like. I know it won't be an Apple, but at least it isn't a total waste of your money.
I've read a bunch of these posts, but not enough to attack anyone and I wouldn't try to do that anyways. Instead, I'm going to post some views of my own
Background: I'm in my early 20s (weird to say...) and I grew up on DOS (back when blue screens were a good thing!) and Windows95, but used Macs in school up until XP came out, then everything in my life went PC for good, until now, when I'm reconsidering a Mac.
So why did I stick for PC so long? Mainly it was my dad and when we got a computer as kids, it was a Dell or HP or (gasp) Compaq. At school, I was told to use the Macintosh/iMac and that's what I did. At that age, I found OSX weird because I had been already used to DOS/Win95, but I quickly picked up on the Macs. Maybe that's why they used them in school over PCs: they were the easiest for a simple minded 5th grader to learn.
Today, I think people stick with Windows because it's a familiar territory. Like everyone has said, it does the things you want, mostly when you want them to. User stupidity has a lot to do with how poorly a machine operates. But most people these days have had interaction with a system with Windows on it, just because mass-using places (companies, schools, libraries) can't afford Macs and just go with the $500 Dell. Therefor, most people can get by when they buy a PC.
Now, a Mac on the other hand, can be great for certain purposes too. It's easy to learn, does neat little tricks that are already built in (Photo Booth, GB, etc), and have great build quality. And people, like me, who still need to run 1-2 Windows programs, can do so easily even on a Mac.
However, is a Mac for everyone? HAH. NO. Plain and simple. Some people really like Windows Vista. I find it cumbersome to work in and really don't enjoy it, but that's why I've stuck with XP, and will go to Windows7 next. I'm not switching to Mac just because I dislike Vista, there are other options. And some people just can't afford a Mac in these times. Heavy Windows users also won't benefit much from a Mac at all (I love the people on here who say they'll be primarily booting into BootCamp...I don't even know if I'll partion my HD for Windows, all I use is MathCad/Matlab, especially with Sims3 coming with a Mac version).
Also, neither can dodge viruses. But it takes a lot more effort to get one on a Mac than a PC it seems like. We had an email go out with a virus, and even with Norton, I still managed to pick up some Malware. Friends with Macs saw nothing. Could there be huge outside reasons why this happened, not just that "Mac > PC"? Sure. But for users who just need a computer, on the surface, Mac is going to be way more appealing.
To the OP: If you're looking to get a Mac because they're pretty machines and fun/easy to use and you want one to have on, they're fine reasons to get one as long as you can afford it and it's a smart long-term investment. No one should hate on you for wanting something nice. However, if you're not going to also get good use out of it, you should maybe rethink you're decision. There are plenty of fine PCs out there that you can get for a little less, and you don't necessarily need the top spec computer it sounds like. I know it won't be an Apple, but at least it isn't a total waste of your money.
He'll be fine ether way he goes. One thing I would like to point out on the MacBook side is that you don't exactly need the top end 2.4Ghz model. The 2.0 Ghz model works just as well and don't buy the memory from Apple. Buy it from New Egg and do the ram upgrade yourself.
There are ways you can save money on both, you just need to work out a better plan.
There are ways you can save money on both, you just need to work out a better plan.
The white MacBook is a fine machine that will last for a long time. Mine is close to three years old and I would like to buy a new one, but I can't justify it because the old one is working just fine. It is very easily upgradeable, if you know how to hold a screwdriver you can buy hard drives and memory anywhere on the internet and plug it in very easily. For additional screen space, buy any 20 or 24 inch DVI monitor and plug it in, so you have two screens when you are at home. It comes with Time Machine, which is the only backup application that people actually use.
The biggest difference between a Mac and a PC is the operating system and the applications that come with it. The problem is, the differences are not what you find in any checklist; they are very subtle but profound. MacOS X has been designed to not get into your way. It does what you want it to do. Windows does what Windows wants to do. It is in your way all the time. It changes what you type because it knows better than you do. Or it thinks it does. It is designed to make you feel stupid so that when things don't work, you think it is your fault.
I use both Mac OS X and Windows daily. When I use the Mac, I do what I want to do, it is just a tool. When I use Windows, I am constantly swearing (happens a lot when you are a software developer taking pride in his work and you are confronted with the utter stupidity that is Windows), and I am fighting the machine. There are people who think it is clever to fight your computer and win, and they buy Windows machines. I think fighting your computer is not clever, so I own a Mac for my personal use.
PS. Go to an Apple Store, and ask someone who knows the computer to show Spotlight to your Dad. Spotlight finds things. On Windows, there are tools that can search on your hard drive and locate files for you containing some text that you type in. Spotlight finds things. There is a difference that makes the Windows way a pain in the behind; while Spotlight finds things immediately. Looking for something you write in a report fourteen months ago? Spotlight goes right there, immediately.