His explanation: with mRNA, you have a lot more freedom and create a bunch of surface structures with the different variants. Viral Vectors have less data available to produce multiple surface structures. That's somewhat butchered.
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Coronavirus (Covid-19) informational thread
- Thread starter yaxomoxay
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We're starting to mask up again. Gov. Newsom has now mandated it at the State Capitol. We've had 5-15 people test positive for COVID there, most with the Delta variant, and all of them were vaccinated. We're going to see what happens, but we've never took off our masks after getting both shots of Pfizer.
Very interesting. This means that one has less - if any at all - avenues for fighting the variants by viral vector, meaning you'd need a different full dose vaccine altogether.. They say that there is always a price to pay; well, this may be that price for the sake of practicality and ease of a single dose vaccine, like viral vector.
This brings me back to the question from the PRSI thread: will there be any side effects to having more than one vaccine for the virus? Having both a mRNA and viral vector vaccine? This is probably going to come up now, and I haven't heard of any test cases where two different kinds of vaccines have been used on the same patient; simultaneously or otherwise.
BL.
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That would then mean that they had 3 jabs of a vaccine.. This would tell me that there wouldn't be any real issues or side effects of having both types of vaccines (formulas for those vaccines notwithstanding). This also tells me that for right now to combat COVID and the current mutations, we're looking at 3 jabs total.
BL.
There have been some trials with mixing vaccines.
I think that the AZ had the clotting problems so people took a Moderna or Pfizer after taking one AZ. It's not clear to me that they took three shots overall.
I asked my son how long he's known about the differences between mRNA and Virus Vector and he said a long time.
I also saw that Moderna is making a combo Flu/COVID/Cold vaccine for this winter as well as a Delta booster. Clinical trials for one of them start in August.
Well not sure if anyone saw these but it really seems these mRNA vaccines are a modern medical miracle that possibly ahev and will save hundreds of thousands if not millions if we get as many people vaccinated as possible.
Pfizer And Moderna Vaccines May Offer Years-Long Protection Against Covid-19, Scientists Say
Pfizer and Moderna Vaccines Likely to Produce Lasting Immunity, Study Finds
Pfizer And Moderna Vaccines May Offer Years-Long Protection Against Covid-19, Scientists Say
Pfizer and Moderna Vaccines Likely to Produce Lasting Immunity, Study Finds
Apparently the CDC has said vaccinated students and teachers don't have to wear masks at school. Now granted, the school district has the final say in that one, but if they choose to follow that guidance...my wife will love it. She struggles with masks...but is fully vaccinated, so she's been able to go without pretty much everywhere now. School (work) would have been the only place she would have had to wear one. I'm definitely curious to see how our district handles it, because we are only ONE district. We aren't set up like other areas around us where we have an "elementary/middle school district" and then a separate one for high school. We are one district, K-12, so we have to worry about consistency district-wide, whereas other towns don't have that problem.
The district held a vaccination clinic for teachers a few months back. They are doing the same for students 12 and older (the second dose is coming up in a week or so, I think). If the district opts to follow this guidance, that means elementary students will still have to wear them. Vaccinated high school students won't have to. The middle schools are where it'll get complicated because our two middle schools are the only buildings in the district that have students both over and under the age of 12.
Then there's me...I feel like that meme of Squidward looking out his window watching SpongeBob and Patrick running around 😂 All these people have mask guidelines being loosened up at their jobs, while us nurses reminisce about the days when we didn't have to mask-up for 12 straight hours, and wonder if and when we'll be told we don't have to 😂 I live in the north, so we probably won't see guidance like that at work this year, because fall (and with it cold and flu season) isn't too far off. Ahh the good ol' days when I didn't have to move a mask to eat my M&M's 😂
The district held a vaccination clinic for teachers a few months back. They are doing the same for students 12 and older (the second dose is coming up in a week or so, I think). If the district opts to follow this guidance, that means elementary students will still have to wear them. Vaccinated high school students won't have to. The middle schools are where it'll get complicated because our two middle schools are the only buildings in the district that have students both over and under the age of 12.
Then there's me...I feel like that meme of Squidward looking out his window watching SpongeBob and Patrick running around 😂 All these people have mask guidelines being loosened up at their jobs, while us nurses reminisce about the days when we didn't have to mask-up for 12 straight hours, and wonder if and when we'll be told we don't have to 😂 I live in the north, so we probably won't see guidance like that at work this year, because fall (and with it cold and flu season) isn't too far off. Ahh the good ol' days when I didn't have to move a mask to eat my M&M's 😂
I read the CDC guidance about masking in schools, and I have to agree with it (No, I don’t have children). Although, I do think because of the Delta variant starting to spread every day, masking will be predominantly back with us again in the early fall, regardless who is vaccinated or not. Now, I don’t think it will be mandatory like it was before in private and public buildings, but I think it will be highly ‘encouraged’, especially for those who are not vaccinated. My wife also works in the health sector, and masking will probably never cease, and I think a lot of health professionals have reached a point where they are accustomed to wearing masks, but being in a hospital setting, it does reduce the spread in such a sensitive setting
Also, because of the Delta variant, there are quite a few employers advocating vaccinations in order to be employed with them. I think that will also become more main stream as that variant continues to grow, and employers want to ensure they keep everybody safe, because the last thing anyone wants, is an outbreak in the workplace. So that’s another preparation tool that I think employers will start using like ‘signing bonuses’ for those who are vaccinated or vaccination credentials for those who are not in order to work with specific companies or in the public sector. [Which is what I’m in.]
I was just talking to an individual yesterday, and he’s been in the transportation industry for quite some time, and now the company he works for, is requiring all employees to be vaccinated, or you can have a severance package if you choose not to. So there again, it’s not really an option for some people depending on your industry.
Even vaccinated myself, I’ve always been a proponent of wearing masks, not just necessarily just to reduce spread, but also set the example for others as a reminder that it’s still has a place to protect _our_ local communities.
Obviously the adage goes, safety is always paramount.
Our numbers have gone up four days in a row this week and I am near going back to masking and hand sanitizer again. Yesterday I was in a small room with 30 kids and then later in a field house with 80 and nobody was wearing a mask and it bothered me.
I take care of someone unvaccinated and I could get it and it would likely be mild but I can’t risk passing it on. I do think that employers should require it if you are in proximity of others.
Case loads are growing every day in our community (And throughout the U.S, especially in the west and southern states), that obviously was predicted back in the spring time from our local epidemiologist. My concern is exactly what’s been said recently, which is the latter part of the summer, leading into the pre-stages of fall, we’re going to start seeing cases continue to likely double that of which we see now.
In terms of areas that are not seeing vaccinations rise, tends to be more rural. Which actually in the city that I live in, over 65% of us are fully vaccinated, but when you look at rural counties that are more spread out, they’re vaccinations are less than 30%. Their mindset is “Well, I never leave this county and I only go to the local grocery store and post office”, Or; “I don’t even know anyone in this county who has contracted C/19, I don’t need the vaccine.” The idea behind their flawed logic is ridiculous, and the more vaccinations that we have, you protect your communities and pose a greater stance against the different variants, and of course you have the possibly where the unvaccinated contract C/19 and the common cold or what have you. So there’s so many possibilities of why you would want to get vaccinated now for those who haven’t, but like our local health officials have said, we’re probably down to the ‘select group’ of people who just can’t be convinced no matter what, and it’s their problem with the aftermath.
As for masking, I think you’ll see those who will continue to participate if it is encouraged again, (regardless if you’re vaccinated or not), but there is a large group of people who are ‘fatigued’ by masking, and they don’t care one way or the other. And you’ll know exactly who those people are when you’re in public.
I personally still take precautions in terms of wiping down my packaged groceries with 80% alcohol, I’m not interested in purchasing open produce, (because people are disgusting with poor hygiene) but it doesn’t bother me to take these precautions, because I realize I’m going to step further over everybody else to protect myself and what’s necessary.
Like my wife said just two days ago to me, ‘C/19 is something that will never go away, so you have to be mindful about your tactics and how you handle this moving forward’. For some of us, we get it, and for others, you can’t convince them of anything, regardless of the factual information directly available for them from numerous credible resources.
Local officials have made it so easy to get vaccinated, there’s no excuse you could make not to. I.e.-From picking your own choice of vaccination, walk-ins are accepted, you don’t even need your insurance card, and some vaccination clinics are even handing out free gift cards/vouchers, so what does that tell you about these people who choose to be ignorant and stubborn intentionally.
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Our Governor today, said that he's expecting a wave this fall that's about one-third the wave last fall (and into the winter). We went from about 300 cases to 7,000 cases back then so he's predicting 2,300 cases which would be ten times what we have right now. I suspect that he's using one-third as that's roughly the number of people that aren't vaccinated.
A look at new cases per 100K by county shows the highest rate in the most rural counties. The densely populated areas in the southern part of the state are much lower. I saw a video title indicating GOP Governors are begging their residents to get vaccinated. Our Governor is mostly hands-off right now leaving it to the healthcare system to vaccinate people. I do not know whether or not we are doing additional promotions to get more people vaccinated.
I do not have a picture of how the country overall is doing. I've been focused on New England and it has been doing well though numbers have ceased going down. It's either stable or rising.
Some of the people that we’re seen trickling for vaccinations, is probably because of employers requiring it, which if you think about it, naturally puts those people into a position that they have to have the vaccination if they want to retain their livelihoods. I can think of a few individuals who I known who don’t want to get vaccinated, but nor do they want to lose their careers either. So there really is no choice.
Aside from state level spread, I suspect one of the major concerns in every state, is vaccinating as many college students as possible, that’s where we saw a high influx of cases last year, was stemming from students who were having parties, attending mass gatherings and then we saw outbreaks when they would travel back to their homes on the weekend, contributing to the spread. So if those same ignorant students want to partake in those type of events, then they should at least have the intelligence of considering the vaccination, and in some cases; some private institutions/schools are requiring students to be vaccinated in order to attend.
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Our Governor addressed the concern of college students and he said that the vaccination rate of college students will be over 90% this fall. One still large area is kids under 12 but we can't do anything about that until we get EUA under 12.
90% is an outstanding number. Last what I read in our area, ages in a bracket of 18 to 24 was about 40% completion rate, which is sub-par. (And ages 25-33 was about 46%).
I suspect that the Governor is making it a requirement or convincing the colleges and universities to make it a requirement. I don't think that you'd get anywhere near 90% making it voluntary. Our vaccination rate is 72% for adults. We got there in a hurry and then just stopped. I'm glad we got to where we did and, we at least now know the level of anti-vaccination resistance. Our hospitals were fortunately not stressed in the big spike last fall and winter so we should be okay with our healthcare system. I just think that we are going to go back into some level of restrictions again.
I initially think the Johnson and Johnson pause that we saw a few months ago, also thwarted people from the vaccine. We know it affected a very minute amount of women, but there was also reports of striking pain in the leg, shortness of breath, etc. So I think those after-effects kind of halted people, and then when they allowed J&J to resume, people were still unsure if they wanted to move forward with any of the vaccinations.
Other than that, if the Delta variant gets out of control, then undoubtedly restrictions are necessary. And I say that, because now that most communities have guidelines that they follow based off what we saw with the alpha variant, everybody already knows what to do if we see a downward trend.
Also, I’m not sure if it’s related or not, but I am seeing certain masks are becoming more limited again on Amazon. I just ordered a 20 pack of N95 Niosh masks, because I am doing some traveling in August, and I’d rather have spares if supplies start to become limited again.
The vaccination registration systems had problems early on. We went with our own system due to problems with the Federal system. It was rocky for about a week but pretty smooth after that. The thing was then to add a lot more local providers.
We have a lot of hand sanitizer, wipes, and the stuff associated with cleaning. It's even on discount in many places. The mask situation might be more of a global demand issue as a lot of countries are having much bigger problems than we're having right now.
Our vaccination records are updated every eight hours (Except for Sundays), and we receive daily reports usually released by 5 PM, that includes ethnicity, age, gender and which vaccine/dose has that specific individual received, what’s the total completion rate per county, followed by the percentage of an increase/decrease of the vaccination rate.
Same with us here in CA, though I want to say that it is before 5pm, as the data we get in is for all vaccinations, not just for COVID, so those have to be accounted for as well.
BL.
My wife had a conversation with a fellow physician earlier today and he basically made the comment that the U.K is way ahead of the U.S in terms of a booster variant. Where if we develop a booster, it probably won’t even reach third-phase trials until mid fall and possibly available late 2021/2022. Additionally, that it’s possible that the booster may be only available for those are auto-immune deficient, those with disease severities, and geriatrics. Basically, that the young and overall primarily ‘healthy group’ of individuals, may not even qualify or require the booster. That’s kind of an interesting stance, but it does sound like if a booster is available, it would only be available for Moderna and Pfizer, where the J&J probably will not need a booster.
I guess my thought is, if it is semi-accurate above, that’s not a good look in my opinion. That with the mutation variants that we’re seeing, we all knew C/19 will mutate at some point, and maybe the booster should’ve been ahead of schedule, but I say it depends how things escalate.
I guess my thought is, if it is semi-accurate above, that’s not a good look in my opinion. That with the mutation variants that we’re seeing, we all knew C/19 will mutate at some point, and maybe the booster should’ve been ahead of schedule, but I say it depends how things escalate.
That sounds highly suspect, given that one of the variants is the UK (Alpha) variant. Beta is S. African. Delta is the east Asian/Vietnam variant. I'd assume Charlie is Brazilian.
Regardless, how they would be way ahead is interesting, because one of the viral vector vaccines was produced by Oxford, and because of what was mentioned above and confirmed by @pshufd, the viral vector vaccines would need a significant booster or new vaccine altogether to attack the variants, whereas the mRNA vaccines would need to have the RNA tuned to identify and attack the variants. This is an advantage to the mRNA vaccines, which both were made in the US.
My guess is that that physician was only referring to the variants the UK is currently dealing with, and not the other three that also need to be addressed.
BL.
That’s probably true, that he was referring just to the UK strain. However, if they (UK) are ahead of us in terms of developing a booster for their known variant, why is the US so late knowingly that the Delta variant was well reported back in April crippling India [And now Indonesia] and had already made its way here we suspected in late May. The US doesn’t even have a Phase 1 trial yet, and Phase 3 probably wouldn’t even be completed possibly until late fall and not even available to 2022, with that all said, a booster shot probably would be a little late with a secondary surge early fall, considering that it appears that the UK is already in preparation.
One other potential way to get it would be to sign up for the clinical trial. I'm already in the risky category.