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Coronavirus (Covid-19) informational thread
- Thread starter yaxomoxay
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Thanks for posting this. My son sent me an email on this this morning.
Their results are similar to those of Israel.
It is possible that the gap difference between Pfizer and Moderna (3 weeks vs 4 weeks) contributes to the sharp dropoff as the UK has higher efficacy with a 2-3 month gap. Canada and Europe are following the 2-3 month gap protocol.
Do you have a link to the research paper?
I just ordered a box of 20. I ordered 100 surgical masks yesterday for relatively short-term or single use. Masks seem relatively easy to get right now but I suspect that will change fairly soon.
Their 6 months results was very similar to those of Israel with the Pfizer vaccine since the US and Israel are on the 3 week gap. Whereas with the Moderna vaccine on the same gap protocol only declined 10% efficacy (from 86% to 76%) within the 6 months period, which is really impressive against the Delta variant. So Canada and Europe are on a better footing with the Pfizer with the longer gap protocol, but for those Canadians and Europeans who have had Moderna would stand in a much better position with the longer gap protocol. Which means that I wouldn't need a booster shot until March or April of 2022. By then, the 2nd generation Moderna (mRNA-1283) would be available in Canada.
Link to the paper..
Comparison of two highly-effective mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 during periods of Alpha and Delta variant prevalence | medRxiv
I'd skip the surgical masks. The experts are saying for Delta you should stick purely with N95. Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel was on the news today with a graphic showing surgical masks were about 40% effective, cloth masks 20% and real NIOSH-approved N95 masks about 95% effective against Delta:
They're also easy to get now. I was ordering them for friends all through the peak season in the winter. Two good sources:
DemeTECH USA | Manufacture of Surgical Masks | N95 Manufactured in USA
DemeTECH manufactures Surgical Masks (ASTM Level 3), and N95 respirators (Cup and Fold Styles) using only American Made materials. All of DemeTECH's products are proudly manufactured in the USA.
demetech-corporation.myshopify.com
I was shocked when I went to Home Depot yesterday and the entire staff was wearing masks -- they had almost all stopped completely months ago.
My local health food store was an interesting case: I would say mask use was around 40% (higher than most other stores) up to last week. Now it is back to around 90%.
In a local neighboring county here in upstate NY, almost half the people testing positive for COVID are vaccinated. (They are still having minor illness though.)
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More and more staff and customers in stores around here are wearing masks. Not surprising to me at all with the new variant. Until the conspiracy/personal rights crowd realizes the threat to their own (and more importantly other's) lives and gets vaccinated, I'm wearing mine too.
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Please keep in mind that a medical grade 3M N95 mask is ONLY 95% effective if you have had it fit tested to fit you. Part of the fit testing is that they will put you in a room and then spray you a harmless agent, which will smell almost like a skunk if the seal isn't tight. For me during the testing when I was working in nursing that it took a few trials to get the right fitting. Apparently, the only mask that worked really well for me for my facial contour were the 3M 1860s model (not comfy and hard to breath) and my favorite the 3M Aura 9205+ (very comfy and comfortable to breath and reduces eye fogging (important then for my job). A failed non-sealed N95 mask will become a very expensive surgical mask if it's not properly fit tested or if you had forgotten to shave if you are a man prior to wearing the mask.
unitedcanadainc.com
3M Aura Disposable Particulate Respirator 9205+, N95 | United Canada
Disposable particulate respirator designed to help provide reliable respiratory protection of at least 95 percent filtration efficiency against certain non-oil based particles.
unitedcanadainc.com
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A couple of things:
1. My wife and I were supposed to meet up with my sister today, the first time we'd seen her in nearly a year. She texts me yesterday and says that the youngest(6 years old) is really sick. Found out today she had COVID, although unfortunately they've already been out running around and she claims they were "only" told a 7 day quarantine. Apparently my niece is going back to school next week. They've also all(my sister, brother in law, and their two teenage boys) have all turned down the vaccine. As my wife said, and I agree, that people acting like they are "the reason COVID is still spreading like crazy."
2. My home state is doing decently well both with numbers and vaccination rates, although some areas are worse than others. I'm in Kentucky with my parents this week. Vaccine numbers are decent, not great but decent, in central KY but fall off sharply especially in the eastern part of the state. Kentucky numbers are not looking great. The Governor put out a K-12 mask mandate yesterday and people are not happy.
3. Along those same lines, masking has been interesting. In Lexington on Monday afternoon/evening I'd have eyeballed several stores at 50% masking, give or take. Here in Frankfort, after being here since Saturday, mask useage seems to be increasing day by day.
4. On N95s-they are a waste, as said above, if you're not fit tested for them. They are not one size fits all, and if it's "easy" to breath through them there's a decent chance they don't fit correctly. In addition, bear in mind that things like facial hair in certain places compromise the seal on them. Also, I've seen people doing just stupid things with them like wearing an N95 over top of a surgical or cloth mask. If you're going to double mask with an N95, the N95 must be directly in contact with your skin(that's the same reason some facial hair is a problem) and putting any other kind of mask between your face and an N95 ruins the point of them.
1. My wife and I were supposed to meet up with my sister today, the first time we'd seen her in nearly a year. She texts me yesterday and says that the youngest(6 years old) is really sick. Found out today she had COVID, although unfortunately they've already been out running around and she claims they were "only" told a 7 day quarantine. Apparently my niece is going back to school next week. They've also all(my sister, brother in law, and their two teenage boys) have all turned down the vaccine. As my wife said, and I agree, that people acting like they are "the reason COVID is still spreading like crazy."
2. My home state is doing decently well both with numbers and vaccination rates, although some areas are worse than others. I'm in Kentucky with my parents this week. Vaccine numbers are decent, not great but decent, in central KY but fall off sharply especially in the eastern part of the state. Kentucky numbers are not looking great. The Governor put out a K-12 mask mandate yesterday and people are not happy.
3. Along those same lines, masking has been interesting. In Lexington on Monday afternoon/evening I'd have eyeballed several stores at 50% masking, give or take. Here in Frankfort, after being here since Saturday, mask useage seems to be increasing day by day.
4. On N95s-they are a waste, as said above, if you're not fit tested for them. They are not one size fits all, and if it's "easy" to breath through them there's a decent chance they don't fit correctly. In addition, bear in mind that things like facial hair in certain places compromise the seal on them. Also, I've seen people doing just stupid things with them like wearing an N95 over top of a surgical or cloth mask. If you're going to double mask with an N95, the N95 must be directly in contact with your skin(that's the same reason some facial hair is a problem) and putting any other kind of mask between your face and an N95 ruins the point of them.
I think you're taking that too far. It's true you are rarely going to get the 95% effectiveness, but many of the circumstances that reduce their effectiveness apply to other masks as well (even more so for masks that don't have double-bands behind the head) -- and those lack the filtering N95s have.
I've been wearing N95 masks almost exclusively for the past year whenever I am indoors (not at home), and I can tell you, they are always hard to breath in. I'm shocked when I try other ones how easy breathing is. It's clear they filter much more than other masks even in the day-to-day circumstances. I have never heard the experts not recommend N95's because "they are waste if not worn properly".
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From https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/11/us/covid-texas-hospitalizations-icu.html:
EDIT: Snarky political comment deleted as inappropriate
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A fit test, known as a "Qualitative/Quantitative Mask Fit Testing" evaluates how well the seal is between a person's face and the mask.
Being easy or hard to breath is "NOT" an indicator of better sealing with a N95 mask. Being able to smell the aerosol agent (qualitative) that simulates the airborne pathogen "IS" an indicator of the WRONG fit or to be able to quantitatively measure the amount of leakage. You are put into a room and then you will be introduced to this aerosol agent and most of the time, people who think they had it right because most of us are RN nurses and doctors before they came for the fit had ALL FAILED 100%, because you can't even tolerate the smell to fake the fit. Though sometimes, for some male professionals, they were tolerating the smell for some odd reasons? Ego or pride perhaps? Have you ever wondered why so many nurses and doctors contracted COVID even they are wearing N95 masks?
It's failure of the mask fitting, failure to follow correct CDC guidelines and User Seal Check or they had recycled the masks and they are no longer providing a good sealed fit and lack of ongoing training in mask usage.
From CDC mask fitting guideline:
"Fit testing is a critical component to a respiratory protection program whenever workers use tight-fitting respirators. OSHA requires an initial respirator fit test to identify the right model, style, and size respirator for each worker. Annual fit tests ensure that users continue to receive the expected level of protection. A fit test confirms that a respirator correctly fits the user. Additionally, tight-fitting respirators, including N95s, require a user seal check each time you put one on to help ensure the best fit possible. In the US, NIOSH-approved respirators include instructions on how to conduct a user seal check."
User seal check (CDC guidelines)
However, let's be clear when N95 should be used. It should be used in the intensive care ward where there's clearly a virus outbreak or a potential outbreak. Otherwise, I just don't see a point to suffer harder breathing when it's not providing you that N95 protection if you did not fit properly compared to a surgical mask. I mean in Canada, it costs $35-70 Cad and takes roughly 20min to complete it. You can bring your own stash of N95 mask to test too over their preferred 3M 1860, 1860s and 1870+, but these masks are now in short supply.
I've only personally used my N95 mask 2 times; both going into the clinic to fulfill my COVID clinic trial research and where I suspect there's a high degree of COVID infection. Otherwise, I just wear my surgical mask or cloth mask.
Proper N95 Respirator Use for Respiratory Protection Preparedness | Blogs | CDC
CDC - Blogs - NIOSH Science Blog – Proper N95 Respirator Use for Respiratory Protection Preparedness -
blogs.cdc.gov
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I’m too late, but I was going to tell you with surgical masks, a lot of municipalities and local county health departments are giving 50ct boxes of surgical 3-ply masks away for free. The reason they’re able to do that is through federal grants. Most consumers don’t think to visit county health department websites, but there should be something listed if someone was interested. In my state, this program is available to every county health department, it’s a maximum of two boxes per family household.
And if there’s nothing on their website suggesting that they are giving surgical masks away for free, give them a call, they’ll likely point you in the direction where you can find them for free if you wanted a larger quantity.
Thank-you for the note.
They were giving them out to small businesses in my area and they were probably funded by the COVID relief money from the Feds.
Small businesses aren't handing them out anymore because they aren't mandatory (they might still be required at The Apple Store).
I wanted to get some masks as I have relatives from the West Coast coming out soon and they might want or need some. I actually did think of ordering 80 N95s as I potentially have 5 coming from the West Coast and my sister and her husband over here. My sister sent me some N95s at the start of the pandemic and I only opened the box this week.
She actually sent me an assortment. I guess the idea was that I try them to see which fits the best.
This means that I'm going to have to shave more often (currently shave once a week).
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A fit test, known as a "Qualitative/Quantitative Mask Fit Testing" evaluates how well the seal is between a person's face and the mask.
Being easy or hard to breath is "NOT" an indicator of better sealing with a N95 mask. Being able to smell the aerosol agent (qualitative) that simulates the airborne pathogen "IS" an indicator of the WRONG fit or to be able to quantitatively measure the amount of leakage. You are put into a room and then you will be introduced to this aerosol agent and most of the time, people who think they had it right because most of us are RN nurses and doctors before they came for the fit had ALL FAILED 100%, because you can't even tolerate the smell to fake the fit. Though sometimes, for some male professionals, they were tolerating the smell for some odd reasons? Ego or pride perhaps? Have you ever wondered why so many nurses and doctors contracted COVID even they are wearing N95 masks?
It's failure of the mask fitting, failure to follow correct CDC guidelines and User Seal Check or they had recycled the masks and they are no longer providing a good sealed fit and lack of ongoing training in mask usage.
From CDC mask fitting guideline:
"Fit testing is a critical component to a respiratory protection program whenever workers use tight-fitting respirators. OSHA requires an initial respirator fit test to identify the right model, style, and size respirator for each worker. Annual fit tests ensure that users continue to receive the expected level of protection. A fit test confirms that a respirator correctly fits the user. Additionally, tight-fitting respirators, including N95s, require a user seal check each time you put one on to help ensure the best fit possible. In the US, NIOSH-approved respirators include instructions on how to conduct a user seal check."
User seal check (CDC guidelines)
However, let's be clear when N95 should be used. It should be used in the intensive care ward where there's clearly a virus outbreak or a potential outbreak. Otherwise, I just don't see a point to suffer harder breathing when it's not providing you that N95 protection if you did not fit properly compared to a surgical mask. I mean in Canada, it costs $35-70 Cad and takes roughly 20min to complete it. You can bring your own stash of N95 mask to test too over their preferred 3M 1860, 1860s and 1870+, but these masks are now in short supply.
I've only personally used my N95 mask 2 times; both going into the clinic to fulfill my COVID clinic trial research and where I suspect there's a high degree of COVID infection. Otherwise, I just wear my surgical mask or cloth mask.
Proper N95 Respirator Use for Respiratory Protection Preparedness | Blogs | CDC
CDC - Blogs - NIOSH Science Blog – Proper N95 Respirator Use for Respiratory Protection Preparedness -
I have a beard so any cloth mask is of limited value to me. But it will keep me from spraying anything on anyone else. When I was at the hospital I had a 3M HEPA positive pressure hood. Back then it was just TB that we were dealing with.
Someone in another forum told me that Moderna's efficacy testing results were a lot higher than the Mayo Clinic study. Those results came out on August 10. I looked at it and Moderna used Antibody testing while the Mayo Clinic study is people that actually got infected. One thing about the studies is that you really have to see what's being measured.
I don’t understand why you made my post a political post. I never quoted, mentioned, or even implied anything related to any political argument. This type of response is quite frustrating.
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I have nothing against mitigation. I want everyone (that medically can) be vaccinated. How did you extrapolate from my “we need to vaccinate everyone so that we don’t need masks” that I am against mitigation?
State infectious disease head talked to school districts yesterday and is recommending all districts with CDC-rated Substantial Community Transmission or higher to mandate indoor masking. All counties in my state are at Substantial with the exception of one rural county that is a High. Schools really have to nail down mitigation this week to let parents know what's expected and required. I expect to see more people wearing masks next week and in subsequent weeks. Our healthcare system is not under stress right now. They are working on the backlog of procedures that were delayed from winter and spring when cases shot up to their record.
Read your original response and then you should understand my response.
Read your original response and then you should understand my response.
My original response is clear and your response to mine is a resoponse to something I never said.
You said:
To which I replied
Is going back to masks, when we have very effective vaccines, going in the right direction? Or the right direction is going towards Covid being mostly irrelevant in our lives, quite likely thanks to vaccinations? Finding ourselves over a year later going back to masks when we have 5 different vaccines available to everyone is NOT good progress. There is no statement about the effectiveness, need, legality etc. of masks in my post.
Why did you assume that I am not for vaccinations. The truth of the matter is that we've stalled out on vaccinations. I posted that we had 44 vaccinations on a recent date.
We have school coming up. Vaccination rates are still quite tepid. In light of that, what do you do? You do what the CDC recommends. You mask up if you're in an area of Substantial Community Transmission. Which is most of the country right now. And that's why school districts are focusing on mitigation. Which is EXACTLY what they should be doing.
If you don't understand my response, then you don't understand the tone of what you wrote.
I didn't assume, or even imply that you're not for vaccinations (I know that you are very favorable to them, of course, because you ain't stupid). I simply disagree with using "good progress" towards going back to masks when we have vaccines available. Is masking necessary? Maybe, I'll leave it to the experts. In other words, instead of saying wearing masks is "good progress" we should say the opposite "wearing masks is going back three steps because of idiots that don't want the vaccine. See what are you doing guys?"
If you can't get people to vaccinate, and that is the case right now unless they fear death, what should you do?
Yes, I already know the answer. The CDC already knows the answer. School districts already know the answer.
And you should too.
And I never said that it isn't the answer. But it's not good progress, it's going back. Necessary as much as we want it, but it's going backwards. Heck, I am even in favor of mandating the vaccine as soon as the FDA formally approves them.