Coronavirus (Covid-19) informational thread

[SactoGuy18]

One thing though: the sickness rate for the Delta and Epsilon variants among the fully vaccinated and those who have recovered from previous COVID bouts is actually quite low, at least here in the USA. That tells me people who qualifies to get it need to get the vaccine post haste, especially now every medical provider and major pharmacy but the kitchen sink (figuratively!) offers the vaccine for pretty much free.

 

[iluvmacs99]

There are certain dynamics at play with people who refuse to vaccinate; namely some people would rather see the pandemic continue on in expectation that the government will continue to provide stimulus, rent moratoriums and other financial moratoriums. So you have a certain population who are doing this to assert a certain unrealistic status quo. As Senator Joe Manchin's said; he will not be onboard in agreeing to another stimulus package. So you'll see these cohort of people, realizing that they are not getting some free money or infinite rent moratoriums extended will have to get a job somehow. And in so doing, they will be forced to be vaccinated when vaccine mandates come into effect with many companies as soon as Pfizer and Moderna are FDA approved. So these people will get the vaccine based on economics. Then you have another set of people who will get the vaccine via vaccine passport mandate if countries do decide to implement such a one, which I think will be coming in light of the upcoming Winter Olympics in China. If that is implemented, then these group of people will basically need to vaccinate to get that vaccine passport if they want to travel or cross the border, unless they chose to no longer travel ever until the border is fully lifted, but that could take years. And then, you have a group of anti-vaccine people who would only vaccinate with traditional protein based vaccines such as Novavax and Sanofi-GSK which will soon be available. But lastly, you will have a certain group of people who will never vaccinate for many reasons, but their numbers are pretty low. So right now, people who refused vaccination will eventually be motivated by many restrictive measures which are only friendly to the vaccinated as the main status quo for the unvaccinated to rejoin society.

We saw this during the AIDS/HIV epidemic in the USA and throughout the world, where it changed how we view and our behaviours in regards to sex and namely having unprotected sex with other partners. While AIDS/HIV still exist since we don't have a cure for it, it's behind the spotlight today because many people around the world had accepted it. COVID will sadly take years also for most people to accept that it's real and accept that there is a way to safely live with it if it becomes an endemic.

 

[pshufd]

There are certain dynamics at play with people who refuse to vaccinate; namely some people would rather see the pandemic continue on in expectation that the government will continue to provide stimulus, rent moratoriums and other financial moratoriums.

That sounds ridiculous.

Stimulus was quite stingy. I don't see how you'd live off of those stimulus checks.

Rent moratoriums don't relieve you from accumulated debt.

Unemployment is quite stingy in a lot of states.

Have you ever been unemployed? Do you want to live dependent on stingy legislators and companies trying to force people into the labor force?

The video link I posted last night estimates that we have about 4 million with long covid - around the amount of our labor deficit.

 

[pshufd]

NY Times: ‘This Is Really Scary’: Kids Struggle With Long Covid

Will Grogan stared blankly at his ninth-grade biology classwork. It was material he had mastered the day before, but it looked utterly unfamiliar.

“I don’t know what you’re talking about,” he blurted. His teacher and classmates reminded him how adeptly he’d answered questions about the topic during the previous class. “I’ve never seen this before,” he insisted, becoming so distressed that the teacher excused him to visit the school nurse.

The episode, earlier this year, was one of numerous cognitive mix-ups that plagued Will, 15, after he contracted the coronavirus in October, along with issues like fatigue and severe leg pain.

...

Studies estimate long Covid may affect between 10 percent and 30 percent of adults infected with the coronavirus. Estimates from the handful of studies of children so far range widely. At an April congressional hearing, Dr. Francis Collins, director of the National Institutes of Health, cited one study suggesting that between 11 percent and 15 percent of infected youths might “end up with this long-term consequence, which can be pretty devastating in terms of things like school performance.”

‘This Is Really Scary’: Kids Struggle With Long Covid (Published 2021)

Lingering physical, mental and neurological symptoms are affecting children as well as adults, including many who had mild reactions to the initial coronavirus infection.

www.nytimes.com

Some of this familiar from chemo.

Counterpoint:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1424523818832367618

from Adam W Gaffney

I support dramatic public health interventions in hard hit areas to slow Covid (and buy time to vaccinate everyone possible) but I strongly dislike this irresponsible mode of reporting which will scare the **** out of every parent with a kid with a cold.

To be clear, he supports additional mitigation and he's mainstream in calling for vaccinations.

 

[iluvmacs99]

That sounds ridiculous.

Stimulus was quite stingy. I don't see how you'd live off of those stimulus checks.

Rent moratoriums don't relieve you from accumulated debt.

Unemployment is quite stingy in a lot of states.

Have you ever been unemployed? Do you want to live dependent on stingy legislators and companies trying to force people into the labor force?

The video link I posted last night estimates that we have about 4 million with long covid - around the amount of our labor deficit.

Actually I have been unemployed for close to 12 months now in Canada and had been living of off my savings and I live in a province where rents are like $2000 Canadian and up! I didn't qualify for further Canadian stimulus, because my loss of the job was not due to the pandemic, but rather I resigned voluntarily from my nursing job unrelated to COVID. Unlike other Canadians who got the stimulus based on the condition that their jobs were terminated due to COVID. It was a rather unfortunate move on my part that I resigned to start new work in the hospitality industry only to be decimated by COVID which hasn't yet fully recovered.

I admit that I only heard stories about this and had met people who did claim that, because I belonged to those group of people, but in regards to the numbers? I don't know how many of them they are. They could be less people or more people. We both don't know that, but we can be sure of one thing. You made many incorrect assumptions about me knowing nothing about me, and I also make assumptions about the people who are receiving benefits not knowing about them either. So I'm not saying my assumptions of those people are correct anymore than your assumptions of me being unemployed either. However, we can not disregard nor say that there aren't some people who are vaccine resistant and based that decision on economics and ignore there isn't a dynamic of that at play.

Long Covid is certainly at play here as I was one of the sufferer myself and can speak from experience. Many countries are accommodating people with Long Covid, but many countries are still formulating directives to address Long Covid. Long Covid is indeed part of the labour's deficit; again it's a dynamic but not the only main dynamic.

 

[pshufd]

Actually I have been unemployed for close to 12 months now in Canada and had been living of off my savings and I live in a province where rents are like $2000 Canadian and up! I didn't qualify for further Canadian stimulus, because my loss of the job was not due to the pandemic, but rather I resigned voluntarily from my nursing job unrelated to COVID. Unlike other Canadians who got the stimulus based on the condition that their jobs were terminated due to COVID. It was a rather unfortunate move on my part that I resigned to start new work in the hospitality industry only to be decimated by COVID which hasn't yet fully recovered.

I admit that I only heard stories about this and had met people who did claim that, because I belonged to those group of people, but in regards to the numbers? I don't know how many of them they are. They could be less people or more people. We both don't know that, but we can be sure of one thing. You made many incorrect assumptions about me knowing nothing about me, and I also make assumptions about the people who are receiving benefits not knowing about them either. So I'm not saying my assumptions of those people are correct anymore than your assumptions of me being unemployed either. However, we can not disregard nor say that there aren't some people who are vaccine resistant and based that decision on economics and ignore there isn't a dynamic of that at play.

Long Covid is certainly at play here as I was one of the sufferer myself and can speak from experience. Many countries are accommodating people with Long Covid, but many countries are still formulating directives to address Long Covid. Long Covid is indeed part of the labour's deficit; again it's a dynamic but not the only main dynamic.

My assumption is that you were talking about the United States. I was incorrect about that.

The rest of what I wrote is correct for the United States.

I doubt that we're going to address Long COVID in the current environment unless it's addressed in the reconciliation bill.

We don't have UBI in the US. We have had three stimulus checks. That's not very much to last 15 months.

 

[iluvmacs99]

My assumption is that you were talking about the United States. I was incorrect about that.

The rest of what I wrote is correct for the United States.

I doubt that we're going to address Long COVID in the current environment unless it's addressed in the reconciliation bill.

We don't have UBI in the US. We have had three stimulus checks. That's not very much to last 15 months.

No worries there; it's also my error not to be specific on that note. I agree that we need more work on addressing Long COVID not only in the US, but in Canada and I suspect for many countries for years to come.

 

[pshufd]

No worries there; it's also my error not to be specific on that note. I agree that we need more work on addressing Long COVID not only in the US, but in Canada and I suspect for many countries for years to come.

We don't have UHC in the US. Not much hope for UBI or dealing well with disability either.

I looked into disability a few years ago asking others how it worked. It's a fairly convoluted procedure which takes a while and pays you so little that many don't bother with the effort.

 

[Khalanad75]

Here's my thought on kids. The original and early variants didn't really affect children. Very low numbers even caught it.

Now fast forward to Delta, and all of a sudden kids are starting to get it and even get hospitalized. How many more variants till one pops up that hits kids like it did the 65+ crowd?

 

[polyphenol]

The most common symptom

Recent UK ZOE information suggests:

The top early symptoms ​

The clearest symptoms for early detection of COVID-19 overall included loss of smell, chest pain, persistent cough, abdominal pain, blisters on the feet, eye soreness and unusual muscle pain.

However, for older groups, loss of smell was not an early sign, whereas other early symptoms such as diarrhoea were key. Fever, while a known symptom of disease, was not an early feature of the disease in any age group.

Men were more likely to report shortness of breath, fatigue, chills and fever, whereas women were more likely to report loss of smell, chest pain and a persistent cough.

 

[pshufd]

Here's my thought on kids. The original and early variants didn't really affect children. Very low numbers even caught it.

Now fast forward to Delta, and all of a sudden kids are starting to get it and even get hospitalized. How many more variants till one pops up that hits kids like it did the 65+ crowd?

That's why we had 100-150 kids at my gym and nobody had a problem with it.

Delta is a game-changer. They should end the camps soon. But they will still have daycare. My strategy is to go there when the kids are not around. We need to vaccinate to squash variants but I don't see it happening to the degree that we need it to.

 

[Mainsail]

That sounds ridiculous.

Stimulus was quite stingy. I don't see how you'd live off of those stimulus checks.

Rent moratoriums don't relieve you from accumulated debt.

Unemployment is quite stingy in a lot of states.

Have you ever been unemployed? Do you want to live dependent on stingy legislators and companies trying to force people into the labor force?

The video link I posted last night estimates that we have about 4 million with long covid - around the amount of our labor deficit.

I can understand a short term eviction moratorium at the beginning of the pandemic, but the government should have put housing vouchers for qualifying tenants in place within the first few months. I don’t really understand the logic behind long term eviction moratoriums. Over half of the housing providers (sounds better than landlords) are mom and pop operations that need the rental income for their retirement and property maintenance expenses. Even for larger apartments and complexes, rental income is used to pay mortgages, building maintenance and property taxes, which support schools and local infrastructure.

The government has allocated billions for rental relief, but the bureaucracy is incapable of getting it underway. The current process is a nightmare. I have a friend that owns a rental house and the tenant has not paid for over a year…..and the tenant is working. The guy is just taking advantage of the moratorium. The owner told me that to file for relief he would have to fill out a 60 page form, and he would need to get the tenant‘s cooperation, which the tenant refused. It’s a mess.

 

[A.Goldberg]

NY Times: ‘This Is Really Scary’: Kids Struggle With Long Covid

Will Grogan stared blankly at his ninth-grade biology classwork. It was material he had mastered the day before, but it looked utterly unfamiliar.

“I don’t know what you’re talking about,” he blurted. His teacher and classmates reminded him how adeptly he’d answered questions about the topic during the previous class. “I’ve never seen this before,” he insisted, becoming so distressed that the teacher excused him to visit the school nurse.

The episode, earlier this year, was one of numerous cognitive mix-ups that plagued Will, 15, after he contracted the coronavirus in October, along with issues like fatigue and severe leg pain.

...

Studies estimate long Covid may affect between 10 percent and 30 percent of adults infected with the coronavirus. Estimates from the handful of studies of children so far range widely. At an April congressional hearing, Dr. Francis Collins, director of the National Institutes of Health, cited one study suggesting that between 11 percent and 15 percent of infected youths might “end up with this long-term consequence, which can be pretty devastating in terms of things like school performance.”

‘This Is Really Scary’: Kids Struggle With Long Covid (Published 2021)

Lingering physical, mental and neurological symptoms are affecting children as well as adults, including many who had mild reactions to the initial coronavirus infection.

www.nytimes.com

Some of this familiar from chemo.

Here we go again with the MSM publishing anecdotal stories to sensationalize and get clicks, in complete contradiction to evidence based research.

The Lancet published a study looking at COVID in school aged children - almost 260,000 children aged 5-17, 76,000 of whom had a positive test for COVID and 1,700 with a positive test and measurable illness. Of those with measurable COVID symptoms, only 4.4% had symptoms lasting 28+ days and only 1.8% more than 56 days.

(The NYT cites the 4.4% study but doesn’t provide context [4.4% of 1,700 out of 76,000 out of 260,000] and put it at the end where no one will see it)

In other words, symptomatic COVID is not not particularly common in children and long COVID in children is exceedingly rare.

Given the physical effects COVID can have on various organ systems I don’t think Long COVID is an impossibility. But as it is, the majority of children with severe COVID have at least one major underlying condition. These studies are not sophisticated enough to determine if the protracted symptoms are caused by COVID, another underlying condition, or the treatment of other concurrent health problems. It also must be considered how much impairment protracted symptoms cause. Chronic fatigue is obviously far more debilitating than losing your sense of smell for a couple months.

As the NYT article mentions, the Lancet study found prolonged COVID symptoms lasting more than 28 days is 4x more prevalent than other similar illnesses (flu, colds- 0.9% vs 4.4%), however it fails to mention the study found prolonged symptoms from non-COVID illness we’re found to have a greater burden.

Beyond that I suspect some percentage of Long COVID is represented with a propensity towards hypochondria, as is common with many health conditions and treatment. Additionally, a lot of the symptoms are the same as depression, which is associated with COVID (likely due to prolonged isolation, existential fear/anxiety, facing ones own vulnerability, etc). There is also a subset of people with any disease who use it as an excuse to garner attention or avoid responsibility.

Again, I am not questioning the legitimacy of protracted COVID symptoms. I just believe in the likelihood the reported numbers are inflated.

 

[pshufd]

I can understand a short term eviction moratorium at the beginning of the pandemic, but the government should have put housing vouchers for qualifying tenants in place within the first few months. I don’t really understand the logic behind long term eviction moratoriums. Over half of the housing providers (sounds better than landlords) are mom and pop operations that need the rental income for their retirement and property maintenance expenses. Even for larger apartments and complexes, rental income is used to pay mortgages, building maintenance and property taxes, which support schools and local infrastructure.

The government has allocated billions for rental relief, but the bureaucracy is incapable of getting it underway. The current process is a nightmare. I have a friend that owns a rental house and the tenant has not paid for over a year…..and the tenant is working. The guy is just taking advantage of the moratorium. The owner told me that to file for relief he would have to fill out a 60 page form, and he would need to get the tenant‘s cooperation, which the tenant refused. It’s a mess.

Congress allocated about $45 billion for rental housing assistance and then gave it to the states to administer. The states didn't have the systems to administer the money. About $2 billion has been allocated. So yes, there is money out there but our administration systems are awful as is our ability to set up new ones. The pandemic really showed how bad our unemployment systems are. They couldn't handle the volume and I have heard anecdotally that people that were elegible for unemployment never received it.

 

[pshufd]

Here we go again with the MSM publishing anecdotal stories to sensationalize and get clicks, in complete contradiction to evidence based research.

The Lancet published a study looking at COVID in school aged children - almost 260,000 children aged 5-17, 76,000 of whom had a positive test for COVID and 1,700 with a positive test and measurable illness. Of those with measurable COVID symptoms, only 4.4% had symptoms lasting 28+ days and only 1.8% more than 56 days.

(The NYT cites the 4.4% study but doesn’t provide context [4.4% of 1,700 out of 76,000 out of 260,000] and put it at the end where no one will see it)

In other words, symptomatic COVID is not not particularly common in children and long COVID in children is exceedingly rare.

Given the physical effects COVID can have on various organ systems I don’t think Long COVID is an impossibility. But as it is, the majority of children with severe COVID have at least one major underlying condition. These studies are not sophisticated enough to determine if the protracted symptoms are caused by COVID, another underlying condition, or the treatment of other concurrent health problems. It also must be considered how much impairment protracted symptoms cause. Chronic fatigue is obviously far more debilitating than losing your sense of smell for a couple months.

As the NYT article mentions, the Lancet study found prolonged COVID symptoms lasting more than 28 days is 4x more prevalent than other similar illnesses (flu, colds- 0.9% vs 4.4%), however it fails to mention the study found prolonged symptoms from non-COVID illness we’re found to have a greater burden.

Beyond that I suspect some percentage of Long COVID is represented with a propensity towards hypochondria, as is common with many health conditions and treatment. Additionally, a lot of the symptoms are the same as depression, which is associated with COVID (likely due to prolonged isolation, existential fear/anxiety, facing ones own vulnerability, etc). There is also a subset of people with any disease who use it as an excuse to garner attention or avoid responsibility.

Again, I am not questioning the legitimacy of protracted COVID symptoms. I just believe in the likelihood the reported numbers are inflated.

I would have liked more numbers from the study cited by the person from NIH.

Did you look at the video by Neil Howe that I posted a link to last night?

 

[Mainsail]

Congress allocated about $45 billion for rental housing assistance and then gave it to the states to administer. The states didn't have the systems to administer the money. About $2 billion has been allocated. So yes, there is money out there but our administration systems are awful as is our ability to set up new ones. The pandemic really showed how bad our unemployment systems are. They couldn't handle the volume and I have heard anecdotally that people that were elegible for unemployment never received it.

Agreed. In my county, collecting unpaid rent is almost impossible. So, some tenants view the accumulate debt during the eviction moratorium as a potential freebie. Dont get me wrong. There are people out there that need help, but this cant be foist upon property owners indefinitely without long term consequences. I mean the answer is simple. If the government wants to protect people from eviction they need to step up and provide the financial safety net via vouchers.

 

[44267547]

@Khalanad75

From my perspective, this is why masking is critical necessary in schools and should not be optional. I mentioned it earlier in this thread, but all schools K-12 are required to be masking in my county, regardless of the teen/adult vaccinated. Until we hopefully reach an approval for a younger age group under 12, that should be the norm moving forward, it’s probably really only real way to protect the school system, unless things turn rampant, where everything is shifted back to virtual again.

 

[Mainsail]

Here are a couple of interesting charts from the CDC downloaded today. The first shows COVID Cases by age, per 100,000 population. The second shows COVID Deaths by age, per 100,000 population. The data seems to be current through the end of July....can't really tell (Not sure why it says through August 14, 2021). Anyway, my quick take away is the younger people are more mobile and social so they are more likely to get infected, while older/elderly people are more likely to die for obvious reasons. Deaths among the under 18 population seem to be rare. Now that a high percentage of elderly are vaccinated, we should see much lower mortality in this group.

 

[Mainsail]

Here we go again with the MSM publishing anecdotal stories to sensationalize and get clicks, in complete contradiction to evidence based research.

The Lancet published a study looking at COVID in school aged children - almost 260,000 children aged 5-17, 76,000 of whom had a positive test for COVID and 1,700 with a positive test and measurable illness. Of those with measurable COVID symptoms, only 4.4% had symptoms lasting 28+ days and only 1.8% more than 56 days.

(The NYT cites the 4.4% study but doesn’t provide context [4.4% of 1,700 out of 76,000 out of 260,000] and put it at the end where no one will see it)

In other words, symptomatic COVID is not not particularly common in children and long COVID in children is exceedingly rare.

Given the physical effects COVID can have on various organ systems I don’t think Long COVID is an impossibility. But as it is, the majority of children with severe COVID have at least one major underlying condition. These studies are not sophisticated enough to determine if the protracted symptoms are caused by COVID, another underlying condition, or the treatment of other concurrent health problems. It also must be considered how much impairment protracted symptoms cause. Chronic fatigue is obviously far more debilitating than losing your sense of smell for a couple months.

As the NYT article mentions, the Lancet study found prolonged COVID symptoms lasting more than 28 days is 4x more prevalent than other similar illnesses (flu, colds- 0.9% vs 4.4%), however it fails to mention the study found prolonged symptoms from non-COVID illness we’re found to have a greater burden.

Beyond that I suspect some percentage of Long COVID is represented with a propensity towards hypochondria, as is common with many health conditions and treatment. Additionally, a lot of the symptoms are the same as depression, which is associated with COVID (likely due to prolonged isolation, existential fear/anxiety, facing ones own vulnerability, etc). There is also a subset of people with any disease who use it as an excuse to garner attention or avoid responsibility.

Again, I am not questioning the legitimacy of protracted COVID symptoms. I just believe in the likelihood the reported numbers are inflated.

What seems to be happening is that states are more or less splitting along party lines on the school masking issue. So, this has become political, which it shouldn't be. There are great reasons to get vaccinated if you are 12 y.o. or over, and there are good reasons to wear a mask indoors if you are not vaccinated (including under 12 y.o.). These stand on their own merits.

It feels to me like the media and some officials are trying to put their thumb on the scale. But, hyperbolic articles like the NY Times "This is really scary" don't help the case. It just chips away at the credibility of an already good argument. I think it is a bad strategy.

 

[44267547]

(Not sure why it says through August 14, 2021).

Because the stats lead to the current data point, with Sunday ending the week on the 14th. That’s why.

 

[Mainsail]

Because the stats lead to the current data point, with Sunday ending the week on the 14th. That’s why.

Got it. Thanks.

 

[nebo1ss]

That's why we had 100-150 kids at my gym and nobody had a problem with it.

Delta is a game-changer. They should end the camps soon. But they will still have daycare. My strategy is to go there when the kids are not around. We need to vaccinate to squash variants but I don't see it happening to the degree that we need it to.

Schools has always been a breeding ground for various viruses and will definitely help spread Covid. My daughter-in-law is a school teacher teaching fifth and sixth form in the UK. She got Covid just before school closed and brought it home to my son and grand children. Fortunately both she and my son were Vaccinated and had very mild symptoms. The Grans also had very mild symptoms and they have all fully recovered.

 

[44267547]

Schools has always been a breeding ground for various viruses and will definitely help spread Covid. My daughter-in-law is a school teacher teaching fifth and sixth form in the UK. She got Covid just before school closed and brought it home to my son and grand children. Fortunately both she and my son were Vaccinated and had very mild symptoms. The Grans also had very mild symptoms and they have all fully recovered.

If schools don’t implement masking for both students and faculty, there’s no stopping it. That’s the only way until the vaccinations are approved for a younger demographic under 12. Our county just approved mandated masking for _all_ schools for both elementary/high school, and even though it’s not the most ideal situation for those who are vaccinated, it’s completely necessary. It’s just unfortunate a lot of other states will not adopt that logic.

 

[pshufd]

If schools don’t implement masking for both students and faculty, there’s no stopping it. That’s the only way until the vaccinations are approved for a younger demographic under 12. Our county just approved mandated masking for _all_ schools for both elementary/high school, and even though it’s not the most ideal situation for those who are vaccinated, it’s completely necessary. It’s just unfortunate a lot of other states will not adopt that logic.

There are a few cities and towns putting in mask mandates in New England right now. I think that most authorities are asleep at the switch in vacation mode until Labor Day. I was at the gym when it opened at 5:00 AM. Did my most of my workout, took a shower and left. I'm going to do 65% workouts in the gym and more stuff in my home gym. It will be really hot here but I'll run outside and I started spinning again yesterday.

I was the only person at the gym with a mask on. I'm going to place an order for masks today. Any recommendations? I found 3M N95s but I'd have to order 80 of them to get sold by/shipped by Amazon. I plan to order some surgical masks as well. It's nice that these are available again though that might change.

 

[yaxomoxay]

I was the only person at the gym with a mask on.

I am going to be that guy: you shouldn’t wear a mask at the gym. It’s bad for you and, in addition, it’s quite useless.
Anyone that goes at the gym should expect to walk into a DNA database full of viruses, germs, bacteria, sweat, saliva, skin, hair, and other disgusting stuff. I’ll add that no unvaccinated person should go to the gym for their own sake.