Court Rules Apple Can Be Sued for Monopolizing iPhone App Market

[WWPD]

Good. I hope the suit is wildly successful.

Apple's censorship is enabled by the app store, and is fundamentally immoral.

Oh! You drama queen you! *round of applause*

 

[ReneR]

I swear there's a team of people out there who all hang out together and just decide who and why they're going to sue next. This is so stupid.

Yep, they are called lawyers.

In the US TV there are many commercials, especially at nighttime, calling for participants in class action suites.

The US legal system is such a joke, ...

 

[Moorepheus]

Perhaps the best analogy is that you can only buy a new Ford vehicle at a Ford dealership. Try as you might, you cannot buy one from Ford or from anyone else. If you don't like it, buy a Chevy. Franchise laws like this have withstood antitrust scrutiny for over 100 years. Do not see a discernible difference in how applications are served up vary from that model.

You are absolutely right, however, FORD doesn't require me to buy by TIES, OIL, SPARKPLUGS, WINDSHIELD WIPERS, etc only from FORD STORE, I can go to any other Automotive store to buy those and most likely will be higher quality than the OEM product. Does FORD's Store sell them, sure they do, but they are not allowed to be the only supplier of those products.

 

[ReneR]

My big thing with this is security. While I understand that Apple may limit certain apps and in turn "hurt" some developers, the fact that they are able to vet everything before it's released makes the platform safer in my opinion. Without this, people will be able to get apps from anywhere and WILL be more susceptible to malware.

When I owned my Android phones, I would sometimes download apps (carefully after making sure I reviewed them as best as I could) and still, my phone would lag and battery life would go down from an app constantly running in the background for some reason. When I owned the iPhone 6, I used a jailbreak on it. Again, the app store was great but the phone ran poorly and I had to get rid of the Jailbreak.

I realize that not everyone may have had this experience but I did and I would rather Apple keep their App store /system CLOSED. If people want something different, either jailbreak your phone or buy an Android. The security portion alone will be enough to get this thrown out.

Yeah, on iOS Apple's regular iOS updates alone make your phone lag. Absolutely no need for 3rd party downloads ;-) Also it is not that 3rd party apps often are memory and battery hogs and make your iPhone run less optimal (like Facebook.app and such).

So how exactly did Apple's AppStore review process help with that - especially their resource hungry own iOS updates? ;-)

 

[Naimfan]

There is a LOT of willful ignorance in this thread . . .

 

[LatinaC09]

Yeah, on iOS Apple's regular iOS updates alone make your phone lag. Absolutely no need for 3rd party downloads ;-) Also it is not that 3rd party apps often are memory and battery hogs and make your iPhone run less optimal (like Facebook.app and such).

So how exactly did Apple's AppStore review process help with that - especially their resource hungry own iOS updates? ;-)

I've never personally had a problem with my iPhone lagging frequently from Facebook or iOS updates. Every iPhone I've had (aside from the one I decided to Jailbreak) ran pretty smooth. Did it lag once in while? Well yeah but it wasn't a constant problem for me where I had to restart the phone or something like that. My post wasn't directed at 3rd part apps which Apple does allow on their platform. I just think they should control what is on their own platfrom (for security reasons).

 

[MrX8503]

Each App from the AppStore carries the same risk as form any other source. That Apple reviews them helps only very little as can be seen by all the many cases that already slipped thru Apple review. It is quite easy to make an app that behaves well in Apple's review and only starts it's secret things when it is int the wild.

The cases where Apple retrospectively removed apps using "private" APIs after weeks or months highlights very clearly how minimal their review is. I would expect any simply automatic check to flag and filter out private API use fully and automatically.

Increased security thru an AppStore review or even this developer ID signing is just wishful thinking; also known as praying.

An app from the appstore does not carry the same risk as any other source. Yes, the appstore isn't infalliable, but it is more secure.

Haters gone hate: Again, what is the problem to allow others a choice, you do not need to enable the external developer option and could continue to load exclusively from the AppStore!?

The AppStore would be watered down with developers migrating to 3rd parties. Would take us back to that wasteland

 

[Lawyered17]

The 9th Circus at its finest. (assuming it's coming from California)

 

[Radon87000]

There is absolutely nothing stopping you from going to the competition, that there is proof enough there is no monopoly. And the comment about apple fans is hyperbole. This is not about choice, this is about a company, and it could be your company(which I want to emphasis this is not apple but your company), operating within the law, being successful and then through lawsuits being forced to change, when in reality, you should just vote with your dollars.

The great thing about this, is the deep pockets apple has and this will either be tossed or drag on for years to come with only the lawyers making out. You and I will go back to earth before this gets settled.

So banning competition on one's own platform is fair? So you will tell those who sued Microsoft decades ago for bundling IE as the only choice with Windows to switch to Mac rather than allow alternate browsers which actually happened?

Google has the right view on this.They allow alternate app stores on Android but ask the user to accept responsibility for any damage done to their device

 

[ChrisCW11]

This should be thrown out, period. Part in parcel of the iPhone/iDevice platform has been Apple's app store, and while some people might want to get a piece of that pie, Apple is in the right on this. Apple offers a closed system, and for better or for worse this has served them and their customers well.

Consumers make a choice to be integrated into Apple's walled garden every time they buy an iDevice and honestly Apple has never been deceitful about their closed content system. And while Google or Amazon can support side-loading those platforms are also mostly protected systems.

I don't think tablets need to operate the same was a Linux or Windows allowing open content distribution. Those platforms are rift with malware and crapware, but historically since they were always open, they remain open today. If Microsoft tried to shut down 3rd party content distribution on Windows, for instance, then this lawsuit would be viable against Microsoft.

However Apple introduced a closed system since the inception of iPhone, iPod and iPad's and so there is no legal precedent to come along and expect Apple to open up that system. ANYBODY can make an app for the app store, but while I agree that sometimes Apple is a little too zealous to protect their own interests by banning or eliminating competitive apps, ultimately this has keep the platform "clean" from general malware, or at least "cleaner" then the PC ecosystem.

I agree with Apple on this one; this is a ridiculous and frivolous lawsuit from 3rd parties that are trying to inject crap on the iPhone platform and make money off of it by bypassing the existing process. I don't agree. If I choose to enter a walled garden then I want to celebrate the warped reality field I have entered and expect that walled garden to remain closed to external garbage.

Ultimately, nobody is forced to buy an iPhone and therefore no judge or jury can claim monopolization because consumers can choose more open platforms, even vaguely more open like Android. If a 3rd party wants to set up a new distribution model for content they can create their own Android or other OS based hardware platform and compete with Apple, period. Apple has only 15% of the market, they are not even the top brand to be competing with anyways.

 

[LordVic]

To everyone responding to my first page comment about "Install Jailbreak" as if it's a solution

Jailbreaking is essentially a work around solution. It involved modification of code and breaking of security.

While this IS a work around and a way to get by the hurdles of the walled garden, this is not an actual built in solution to the OS.

For example, in Android land, Enabling Developer options (including in every android), will allow you to set a toggle to allow you to do it. Without ever having to "hack" or modify the operating system to function outside of intended purposes.

So while yes, in those cases, you can still affect your systems stability, performance or security, you're not forced to essentially break the OS to be able to do it.

Jailbreaking is also not something I would recommend your average person do. it is fright with problems that could wind up with you bricking your devices.

 

[Radon87000]

That isn't a monopoly.

It is.Apple decides what goes into the store.What Apple thinks and what I think may not necessarily coincide

 

[kdarling]

Edit: also, it raises a concern. If Apple isn't vetting the apps who is to say they aren't dangerous or malicious? Apple could make it so that if you try to download an alternative App Store you have to agree to a warning that it could compromise the security of your device. Most people would stop right there.

Yep, and that's what other smartphone OSes do.

Btw, people misunderstand Apple's vetting. Its primary purpose is to prevent copyright violations, stop apps that compete with Apple, stop apps which Apple deems unsuitable (which in the past has included Pulitizer Prize author material until Apple got slammed for doing so), and to enforce a general look.

Checking for malware simply cannot be done 100% (or even close) in the small amount of time they allow themselves, most especially without source code.

A good percentage of iOS apps currently leak personal information back to servers in China or Russia. An unknown number no doubt have hidden code that comes alive later on. With every update Apple fixes security bugs in iOS, often buffer overruns. The idea that apps from the official store are guaranteed to be "safe" is too optimistic.

What every device needs, are built-in tools which log what goes out and from what app.

You're free to lump me into the blind fanboy category, but that doesn't make it true. And I'm not trying to make choices for anyone.

The heck you're not. You're arguing that Apple should keep its monopoly position as sole store. That means you're trying to make choices for other people.

If Apple is out of loop to approve the app, I for one would not be interested in such a marketplace. I trust Apple to vet the app before available for purchase.

Good for you. Don't use other stores.

The hardware and software platform belong to Apple, the marketplace is created by Apple, the development is a free for all, how is that a monopoly?

An iPhone does NOT belong to Apple after you buy it.

So when is the court going to rule that Google can be sued for the same reason?

Android has long had a toggle that allows loading apps from outside the Google Playstore. It gives a warning whenever it's turned on.

That's all Apple would have to do as well.

Why anyone would be against the choice is beyond me. It's like having the ability to change wallpapers. If you don't want to do it, don't do it. Personal choice. It's not like you'd be forced to do so.

 

[Radon87000]

So when is the court going to rule that Google can be sued for the same reason?

Google allows multiple app stores on their platform.I have both Amazon's and Google's store on my Androids

 

[Moorepheus]

Malware is a real concern. For those that aren't concerned about it, they should be. Phones increasingly hold the most important information a person possesses, and it's one rogue app away from being stolen.

But I thought our phones where secure? I thought the OS was secure? Now, you're telling me that the APP STORE is a front to prevent these kinds of issues? That's not what APPLE has been telling everyone for years.

 

[Jsameds]

It is.Apple decides what goes into the store.What Apple thinks and what I think may not necessarily coincide

It is their own platform that they have built from the ground up. It's not a market, it's a platform that is on the market with other platforms.

You cannot have a monopoly on your own platform, especially when there are other platforms to choose from.

 

[ChrisCW11]

So banning competition on one's own platform is fair? So you will tell those who sued Microsoft decades ago for bundling IE with Windows to switch to Mac?

Well, IE might be included in Windows, but nothing stopped you from installing another web browser. In fact you mostly needed IE to get access to the browser you wanted because not since Netscape in the late 90's have you been able to walk into a store and get a disk to install a web browser. However Windows has had an open distribution mechanism since it was introduced so that everybody installing Windows knows you can install any app you want. Bundling an app in Windows was never was a monopoly and the claim that ignorant users can't figure out how to install a 3rd party application was condescending and largely unfounded.

However iOS was closed from the beginning requiring you to access content from Apple's app store. And while I agree that an argument can be made that Apple often is overprotective against competition on their app store, the idea that Apple has to open up distribution to 3rd party platforms is not a valid argument to be made, and comparing to Windows is not valid either.

When you buy an iPhone most people know they can only get content from Apple, there has never been any deception or duplicity about that and it is part of the reason why people want to buy an iPhone.

A better lawsuit would be if Apple blocked an app from being distributed because they felt it was competitive or Apple was being spiteful, but this lawsuit is not that. Its about a 3rd party setting up their own app store on an iDevice and I don't agree that is a requirement for Apple to allow.

 

[blacktape242]

Im with Jackie Chan on this one!!!

 

[I7guy]

So banning competition on one's own platform is fair? So you will tell those who sued Microsoft decades ago for bundling IE as the only choice with Windows to switch to Mac rather than allow alternate browsers which actually happened?

Google has the right view on this.They allow alternate app stores on Android but ask the user to accept responsibility for any damage done to their device

Yes, I think it is. But my opinion doesn't count and it will be up to the courts to decide and this will take years or the case will be thrown out.

 

[sk1wbw]

Google allows multiple app stores on their platform.I have both Amazon's and Google's store on my Androids

I don't think that's what the issue is.

 

[ReneR]

An app from the appstore does not carry the same risk as any other source. Yes, the appstore isn't infalliable, but it is more secure.



The AppStore would be watered down with developers migrating to 3rd parties. Would take us back to that wasteland

Each download is a risk. As each malicious App can an will slip thru Apple's review it makes it not more secure.

You calling something a wasteland does not actually make one. When was Mac OS application download and install a wasteland?

Is each democracy a wasteland until a proper dictator comes and long with proper censorship and state surveillance?
[doublepost=1484321103][/doublepost]

I've never personally had a problem with my iPhone lagging frequently from Facebook or iOS updates. Every iPhone I've had (aside from the one I decided to Jailbreak) ran pretty smooth. Did it lag once in while? Well yeah but it wasn't a constant problem for me where I had to restart the phone or something like that. My post wasn't directed at 3rd part apps which Apple does allow on their platform. I just think they should control what is on their own platfrom (for security reasons).

Especially the Facebook app was more than once in the news for slowing down the phone and running down the battery. Recently even it started crashing and such, potentially even due to Facebook server side changes.

Also it is a well known fact (and running joke) that all older iPhones and iPad where rendered so laggy that they became virtually unusable with each major iOS version update. Try using an iPhone 4 or iPad 2 with the last software update available.

The only reason it is not as bad with the iPhone 6 is probably because the CPUs are now quite fast and require more efforts to slow down properly ;-)

[doublepost=1484321166][/doublepost]

Yes, I think it is. But my opinion doesn't count and it will be up to the courts to decide and this will take years or the case will be thrown out.

Banning competition on their service would be ok, as long as it is possible to load competition on the device in another way. However, such alternative way does currently not exist.

 

[Jsameds]

But I thought our phones where secure? I thought the OS was secure? Now, you're telling me that the APP STORE is a front to prevent these kinds of issues? That's not what APPLE has been telling everyone for years.

Well actually, they have been saying exactly that.

 

[An-apple-a-day]

What is the problem to offer a macOS like "do you want to run the App from developer XYZ"?

I have no problem of Porsche offering their superior car service, but if one wants, you can still bring or tinker on it at a third party or race track tuner?

I just had to reply to this one.

If a Porsche (or any automobile) is still under manufacturer's warranty, while you can service it at an independent mechanic, you cannot "tinker [with] it" nor can you install custom engine performance profiles on it (other than those available at and installed by an authorized dealer, if any) without potentially voiding the manufacturer's warranty. If an issue arises that could potentially have been caused by these unauthorized tweaks, manufacturer may at its discretion declare the warranty null and void or, at a minimum, deny the dealer's claim for any related repair (which means the dealer won't perform the repair).

 

[CE3]

You're arguing that Apple should keep its monopoly position as sole store. That means you're trying to make choices for other people.

Wrong. My personal position on this issue does not impede (or attempt to impede) upon the choices of other people make whatsoever. I'm not Apple, and this has been their app distribution system since July 2008.

I'm arguing that Apple should keep their mobile devices as secure as possible, and that I don't feel limited or deprived by the App Store and the vast selection of apps it offers in any way. If that changes, I'll complain or move onto something else.

 

[ReneR]

Well actually, they have been saying exactly that.

Following this argument maybe Apple should also start review websites, and only allow the known good ones so you and your iDevice are not damaged by evil / malicious sites! As HTML/CSS/Javascript could 0day hack into your whole phone this is a security disaster waiting to happen! Get some more censors, fast !!
[doublepost=1484321681][/doublepost]

I just had to reply to this one.

If a Porsche (or any automobile) is still under manufacturer's warranty, while you can service it at an independent mechanic, you cannot "tinker [with] it" nor can you install custom engine performance profiles on it (other than those available at and installed by an authorized dealer, if any) without potentially voiding the manufacturer's warranty. If an issue arises that could potentially have been caused by these unauthorized tweaks, manufacturer may at its discretion declare the warranty null and void or, at a minimum, deny the dealer's claim for any related repair (which means the dealer won't perform the repair).

Did I argue that? However, Apple is not even giving us the choice to flip an external developer switch even with a lost warranty waiver, ...

And btw. I am pretty sure in most sane states you can for sure tinker some things on your car (like screwing on a spoiler) and still get warranty if your engine blows up in the warranty period under normal usage conditions.