Court Rules Police Can Force Users to Unlock iPhones With Fingerprints, But Not Passcodes

Just reboot phone before interaction and you can record interaction without entering passcode, and device won't unlock for fingerprint.

I have an iPhone 5 w/ iOS 8. This is incorrect, on reboot swipe up access to control center AND swipe down access to notification center/today is disabled until after it is unlocked with a passcode. that means no camera, no nothing so good luck with that.

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I think it was said the average person breaks 3 laws per day.

Common ones were:

1) not completely stopping at a STOP sign
2) driving over the speed limit. Yes, even 1 mph counts even if not enforced
3) connecting to an unsecured WiFi network
4) playing poker for money at home
5) driving without seatbelt
6) drinking and driving

I KNOW I am guilty of 5 out of 6, not saying which ones :eek:

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But that's basically the point. They take it so you can't erase it but who is to promise they can get the warrant within the 48 hours or before the phone runs out of battery and reboots. In which cases the touch id is disabled anyway

I'd let them take it then wipe it with find my iPhone. suck it pigs.
 
Turn Off Your TouchID

Like everyone tells me, you don't have to use your TouchID.

Simply turn it off!

:apple:
 
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There's no way to differentiate an iPhone that's locked with Touch ID versus an iPhone that's locked with a passcode. You can still enter a passcode to unlock a phone locked with Touch ID.

Thus, all you have to say is that you "slide to unlock" your phone with a passcode. Then refuse to give the passcode.

Problem solved.

This is incorrect. If you have TouchID enabled for unlocking your device the text you see after sliding to unlock changes from "Enter Passcode" to "TouchID or Enter Passcode". Apple needs to change this to always saying one or the other whether TouchID is enabled or not. The user will obviously know if they can use TouchID to unlock their own device, so I'd vote for just having it always say "Enter Passcode".

As I've thought ever since TouchID was announced, Apple needs to allow it to be paired with a short pin code. Even something as simple as a two-digit numeric code would make it virtually impossible for an attacker to guess both the correct finger and pin number within 5 tries, yet it would still be a very quick and convenient alternative to constantly entering a full alphanumeric passcode. A pin would also make even that sophisticated fake fingerprint attack that still works against TouchID absolutely useless. And under this interpretation of the law, the user can be compelled to provide the fingerprint but cannot be compelled to provide even so much as a single-digit pin number, rendering this whole issue moot, at least under US law.

Also, when paired with a pin, TouchID failures should then count toward login failures that will trigger the device erasure function.

Step up, Apple. TouchID is capable of being both convenient and secure at the same time. In its current state it is very convenient, but it drastically decreases the security of the device. Making these changes to security should be quite simple. And yes, there are many people like lawyers, CEOs, journalists and even law enforcement officers who need that security for devices full of highly confidential information. One need not be a "criminal" to have a need to protect information, and protecting it from government access also protects it from unauthorized access by "criminals". These things cannot be separated.
 
I'd say a good rule of thumb is don't [DO NOT] video yourself strangling gf in the 1st place, then your golden.
 
Circuit Court of Virginia, that is trial level. It's not a precedent and isn't final until the Appeals court or Supreme Court affirms or throws it out.

The error in the judges logic is that, by forcing a defendant to participate in unlocking of his device by providing a finger print, this in fact forces one to self incriminate and to act as a witness against himself.

In fact the defendant should not have to do anything he does not wish to comply with when the state wants to throw his ass in prison, guilty or not. That was the intent of the 5th amendment. You either got proof, or you don't, and you cannot expect the defendant to have to help you convict him. It is not designed to be a perfect system of finding innocence or guilt. It's a way to execute both innocent and guilty people based on a set of rules; it does so both currently, and the only protection from it is to hold onto your rights to avoid being found guilty at all cost, including using your 5th amendment right.

The act of complying with a judges order certainly is the same as providing a password or divulging information which he stored in his phone, which is an extension of himself.

Furthermore, what's the difference from information stored on a mans finger or in the atoms of his brain or in the energy states of his electronics/memory?

Also if anyone in the community is listening, add an auto-wipe feature and multi-finger swipe; Meaning to actually unlock, two or more fingers may be used in specific combination entry, and perhaps a specific combination can initiate a device auto-wipe or disable fingerprint and replace with a high grade password until further notice.

There is no way the retarded judges can force one to divulge the specific finger used or the specific finger combination required to unlock a phone. At best refusing to do so is contempt, typically nothing more than a misdemeanor. Wiping or sabotaging your device w/ a specific combination is certainly within your rights to do as well.

http://www.obamasweapon.com/
 
America is the best place for murderes and pedophiles. We hold to our absolute bogus liberties to aide criminals. Everyone should come to America and start conmitting terrible crimes because the ACLU will protect a murderes rights for free
Um, America has the highest incarceration rate in the world. America is not soft on crimes. In fact, they are even tough on crimes that shouldn't even be crimes. Its ignorant people like you that makes America a ******** that people like you complain about in the first place.
 
Simple loophole. If read correctly, the decision simply states giving police your fingerprint; such as if you were giving a DNA sample.

Here's what I would do: officials request that I unlock my device with a fingerprint, referencing this decision. In return, I simply state that I would allow them to ink my fingers and obtain my fingerprint that way. Directly refuse unlocking my iPhone.

Of course, the argument can be made that a fingerprint used on an electronic device does not identify an individual. It simply shows the two are connected. Granting access to a device like this is against fifth amendment rights since you are forced to self-incriminate.

TL;DR. I believe it wouldn't be illegal to refuse unlocking your device as long as police are provided with your physical fingerprints.
 
witness against oneself

The problem is that the courts break the law, because they define the law as "testimony" all verbal witnessing..
No person shall be compelled in any criminal case "to be a witness" against oneself. To bear witness..
Which means If something bears witness to a fact, it proves that it is true.
Verbal, Physical, Mental whatever it is illegal to use.
 
having to put more than one finger would be hypersecure but you'd lose the ease of security you have now. Not sure it is a good tradeof.

Its only a good tradeoff for either the ultra-paranoid Snowden flock, or those breaking the law. Otherwise, most of us just give it the finger and forget about it.
 
There are a lot of comments from people here who say that they have nothing illegal on their phones, that they have nothing to hide.

Well consider this: what about all the names and contact data you have in your address book of friends, family, and work associates, employer, etc.? Depending on circumstances your loved ones may suddenly become persons of interest to the police. I would be more than a little miffed if police came snooping around because some nitwit friend or relative had been careless about my personal info.

It seems that many in the Apple community, at least as represented in the MacRumors forum, are hostile to our constitutional right to privacy. Or they are poor American citizens with little understanding of what makes America different. These people post thoughtless, silly opinions here.

"If you think twice you just might be the genius in your family." - Mike Murdock

"Everybody's got something to hide except for me and my monkey" - The Beatles
It's not a company looking in your address book, which is unacceptable, it's the authority doing that during its duty, that supposedly is to protect and preserve the law in behalf of the community, not against it.
 
If I only had a dollar for every time I have heard that naive fool of a statement " I have nothing to hide."

It has nothing to do with what you have to hide.

This is about what THEY have to hide. And what THEY are trying to TAKE from you and all of us.

Do you believe that the Jews in Hitler's Germany had anything to hide? No, they did not. Did negros in 1842 America have anything to hide? No. Did intellectuals in Mao's purge have anything to hide? No. They were simply the target by a bunch of tyrants who had plenty to hide. These tyrants hid their true intentions until they had enough power to take what they wanted by force.

When the People massively yield to small tyranny, they inevitably end up with BIG tyranny. Tyrants always work their way into government, and they always want more power. This creeping power grab can only happen if citizens are NAIVE about the nature of rulers and power mongers.

Again: WAKE UP! Right now, tyranny is moving ahead at a rapid pace, and soon it will be too late to stop it. With current and future technology in the hands of tyrants, they may successfully repress freedom for a thousand years.

I'd like to inform you that cops are human being like you, doing their job sometimes putting their life in danger for that.
There is no Hitler. There is no tyranny.
The authority doesn't care about your personal data. They don't care about your salary, if you pay your taxes. They don't care about your friends.
They are looking for potentially security breaches in order to prevent illegal activities. The final target is to protect you.
You seem to not understand that.
 
Solution, have every app reuired to at least have the option of passcode lock. So you can legally be forced to open iphone with finger but all the apps inside that are code protected allows you to give the finger for the ske of privacy!
 
This just demonstrates the total ignorance people have about the law and criminal procedure. YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO OBSRUCT THE GATHERING OF EVIDENCE. You have a right to not testify against yourself. A fingerprint is not testimony. You do not have the right to refuse to hand over the key to your lockbox at the bank.

What we're talking about here is what the police can do AFTER they have obtained a search warrant supported by probable cause. I fully support the power of the police to conduct a criminal investigation after obtaining approval from an objective magistrate. I'm shocked at how many people apparently don't.
At least someone seem to understand what's the purpose of police investigation.

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Did you read it? He was charged and incriminated for his illegal act.

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You are so naive it's a wonder you haven't been sold the Brooklyn Bridge. Twice.

Cops have been known to twist innocent actions into "evidence" of a crime, "evidence" they then "leaked" to the media. Remember Richard Jewell, the man falsely accused of the Atlanta Olympics bombing? His alerting police and helping to evacuate the area before the bomb exploded was twisted into a claim that he planted the bomb so he could "find" it and be a hero. It was splashed all over the media and his life was wrecked.

You NEVER voluntarily give any information to the cops. The cops have one interest and one interest only: to make an arrest and clear the case. They don't care if they have the right person, they don't care if the real criminal is still at large, they don't care if the prosecutor gets a conviction. A cop with lots of clearances looks good to his superiors.
You know very little about police investigations.
I'm not saying there aren't bad cops, like in any other job.
But your basic idea about police is just completely distorted....
I'm not a cop, but due to my job I used to work with them, at any level, for about ten years.
Your ideas about police is totally and completely wrong and biased.

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Sad but true.

The sad thing is you believing cops are aliens walking on the earth to prosecute innocent people.
Very sad.

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And those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.....

Tell it to the victims of terrorist or illegal acts....
 
So if you get arrested, turn off your phone. It requires a passcode after a reboot.

Incorrect advise. The correct advise: Turn off your phone and throw it away.

The whole reason why the police or a court _sometimes_ cannot demand your passcode is that they do not actually know that it is your device, and giving out the passcode doesn't only uncover everything hidden, but it also shows that you are the owner of the phone. If being the owner of the phone incriminates you, then you can't be forced to give them the passcode because it proves you own the phone.

The data on the phone is _not_ protected by your right to not self-incriminate. If the police officer saw you unlocking the phone and then locking it again, he _knows_ you have the passcode, and you can be forced to unlock the phone.
 
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