Craig Federighi: Apple Will Continue to 'Protect Our Customers' Amid 'Innovation' in Privacy Exploitation

[matrix07]

There isn't any good solution.

There you go.

 

[MauiPa]

There’s an 800 pound gorilla in the room but nobody wants to acknowledge it at Apple.
Bottom line, they are in the business to make money and will comply with all foreign government regulations.

sorry, you are wrong. companies must comply with laws - period! What do you suppose the alternative is? Don't comply, then don't do business? Is that reasonable in your opinion (well opinion is based on facts, so that might be a stretch, more like feeling)? You have a better chance of effecting change if you have a seat at the table. Taking your ball and going home doesn't help anyone. Personally, I think it would be a violation of our constitutional rights against unreasonable search and seizure here in the US to have the government access our data without a warrant. But, a law is a law, if the law says police can grab your stuff, they can, until the courts say no, that is wrong, get a warrant DA

 

[transpo1]

He’s completely correct. You can decide for yourself if Apple is more trustworthy (not flawless, kids) but he’s entirely correct about VPNs.


The “yes, but China, so nothing you just said matters,” argument is getting a little tired.

But it doesn't get less true.

Seriously, though, no one said privacy doesn't matter for people in the U.S. and other democratic countries. But it's important to be aware it's not for all of their customers, in countries like China and Saudi Arabia. And there's nothing wrong with pointing it out.

 

[Cubsfan]

Does it give them more privacy than others? Slicker software and hardware perhaps, but there is no such thing as privacy in China when connected to the internet. Apple has to hand the encryption keys to iCloud data over to the Chinese authorities, so they have access to...everything.

Which is able to be disabled. And iMessage still works E2E encrypted.

So they can just use signal you say. Well... https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/encrypted-messaging-app-signal-blocked-china-rcna432

Ok. How about whatsapp: https://cybernews.com/how-to-use-vpn/unblock-whatsapp-in-china/

Maybe Telegram? https://www.scmp.com/tech/policy/ar...snares-encrypted-messaging-app-signal-joining


So, if you want E2E encrypted instant messaging.... what are you going to do? That is still legal in China?

 

[I7guy]

Craig Federighi: Apple Will Continue to 'Protect Our Customers' Amid 'Innovation' in Privacy Exploitation

Nice, We are looking forward to a fully End2End Encrypted iCloud incl. iCloud Backups. 🤣

It’s not binary. Privacy and security aren’t like a light switch.

 

[MauiPa]

They said the same thing about privacy last year. It’s the same thing every year.

Keep getting better, and still remain the best company at privacy. time to catch up world! (note google is attempting to add privacy to android, LOL good luck with that)

 

[I7guy]

After yesterday's WWDC they do seem committed to protecting customers from innovation of any kind 🙄

Cool. For those who use android as the innovation benchmark…there is no shortage of android phones.

 

[SBlue1]

Except our customers in China, where we're forced by the government to follow the law.

Fixed that for you.

 

[MauiPa]

But it doesn't get less true.

Seriously, though, no one said privacy doesn't matter for people in the U.S. and other democratic countries. But it's important to be aware it's not for all of their customers, in countries like China and Saudi Arabia. And there's nothing wrong with pointing it out.

You should also point out, that even if you disagree with something, you must still comply with local laws. I think it would be great if here in the US all companies would say no to warrantless access to electronic data as simply being against the constitutional protection against unreasonable search and seizure. Is it really that hard to get a warrant? So companies should just say NO, NO, NO. regardless of how the laws and courts have ruled. stand up for your values!

 

[Mick-Mac]

Can you please propose your solution that makes the lives of Chinese citizens better? Please keep in mind that Apple breaking the law likely means that iOS devices are banned in China.

Edit: Or is this just to make you feel better, without actually solving any problems?

How about putting up a banner every time a user tries to bring up blocked content that explains why the content is blocked. That way the Chinese people have some visibility into the extent to which their access is being restricted and if they want to collectively do something about that then they can at least try. This is very, very different to just silently blocking something.

 

[SW3029]

What would your proposed alternative be?

Offer this in china and get banned, so everyone in china is required to use phones that support zero privacy?

Pull out of China? What problem does that solve for Chinese citizens?

Edit: Everyone wants to say that Apple sucks for not doing stuff like this in China, but is unable to propose a solution that actually improves the lives of Chinese citizens.

100% this. People don't realize that all companies must follow local laws if they want to operate there. If they don't, they can't do business in that country.

Though Apple has to legally comply with China's laws, just that fact that iPhones are on sale in China gives Chinese users so many privacy benefits they wouldn't have otherwise because so much of the data that goes on on an iPhone is solely processed in and on the iPhone - not through some server Chinese officials have access to. Everyone needs to remember this next time they say Apple is bowing to China.

 

[Cubsfan]

How about putting up a banner every time a user tries to bring up blocked content that explains why the content is blocked. That way the Chinese people have some visibility into the extent to which their access is being restricted and if they want to collectively do something about that then they can at least try. This is very, very different to just silently blocking something.

Again, how would you do that? Do you think that you get a return code of "418 -- We, china, are blocking this content". How would you differentiate between content which is blocked and unreachable, and content that is down?

 

[vaxes]

What would your proposed alternative be?

Offer this in china and get banned, so everyone in china is required to use phones that support zero privacy?

Pull out of China? What problem does that solve for Chinese citizens?

Edit: Everyone wants to say that Apple sucks for not doing stuff like this in China, but is unable to propose a solution that actually improves the lives of Chinese citizens.

Easy one to answer, stop pandering to China.

Put the needs of the chinese people against Tims greed at his bottom line.

If Apple products get banned that would be a massive shock/wake up call to the Chinese people against their government.

Apple along with every big company did everything they could to get rid of the orange man but when it comes to China all anyone sees is the money.
I can't have any respect for a company that is so blatant in its hypocrisy.

 

[TheYayAreaLiving 🎗️]

so, seriously? A customer willingly gave her phone with explicit photos, did not purchase one of the many password protected files apps available, willingly gave her password so the phone could be repaired. Two shmucks, who ought to be in jail, perused her phone and stole pictures. Yah, totally apple's fault and denotes weak security on the customers part, not on Apple's. I have no idea why they paid, glad they did, but don't understand the reason. I would venture to say that anyone who gives any device and the password to that device can get their data stolen. Just sayin

Yeah, but the technicians decided to upload the photos online. They ended up exposing her photos

 

[Cubsfan]

Easy one to answer, stop pandering to China.

Put the needs of the chinese people against Tims greed at his bottom line.

If Apple products get banned that would be a massive shock/wake up call to the Chinese people against their government.

Apple along with every big company did everything they could to get rid of the orange man but when it comes to China all anyone sees is the money.
I can't have any respect for a company that is so blatant in its hypocrisy.

This doesn't sound like reality to me. https://www.counterpointresearch.com/china-smartphone-share/

Notice that the vast majority of those are already Chinese companies. Your thinking that Apple pulling out of China materially changes anything for the positive is unrealistic. You seem to think that 13/100 people having to change their cell phone brand will start a revolution. Hint: it won't.

 

[ouimetnick]

“The incident occurred in 2016 at a repair facility run by Apple supplier Pegatron in California.”
If anything this is a proof that Right To Repair can be dangerous.

How is it proof that right to repair can be dangerous? “Right to Repair” doesn’t even exist yet. If it existed, I’d be able to buy authentic parts from Apple & Apple authorized sources. If Right to Repair actually was actually law, I’d be able to access schematics and board diagrams.

If anything allowing folks to work on their own equipment rather than having to put their trust in a total stranger like Apple’s employees or Apple’s suppliers would be better for privacy and peace of mind.

 

[ouimetnick]

so, seriously? A customer willingly gave her phone with explicit photos, did not purchase one of the many password protected files apps available, willingly gave her password so the phone could be repaired. Two shmucks, who ought to be in jail, perused her phone and stole pictures. Yah, totally apple's fault and denotes weak security on the customers part, not on Apple's. I have no idea why they paid, glad they did, but don't understand the reason. I would venture to say that anyone who gives any device and the password to that device can get their data stolen. Just sayin

You should be able to trust Apple & Apple’s “authorized” service centers. I repair computers on the side and don’t go snooping through customer’s data. If I run into anything explicit, I certainly wouldn’t steal it and post on social media or log into their accounts and post it under their name either.

100% Apple & Apple’s supplier’s fault. If I repaired their device, this wouldn’t be a story because it never would have happened.

Is it unreasonable to expect people not to be digging through your documents and photos? Is it unreasonable to expect someone you trust to repair your device to NOT access your social media accounts?

Your post gives off victim blaming vibes.

 

[matrix07]

How is it proof that right to repair can be dangerous? “Right to Repair” doesn’t even exist yet. If it existed, I’d be able to buy authentic parts from Apple & Apple authorized sources. If Right to Repair actually was actually law, I’d be able to access schematics and board diagrams.

If anything allowing folks to work on their own equipment rather than having to put their trust in a total stranger like Apple’s employees or Apple’s suppliers would be better for privacy and peace of mind.

Because this is Apple controlled third party repair shop and this thing still happens. Imagine anyone can fix your iPhone..

 

[transpo1]

sorry, you are wrong. companies must comply with laws - period! What do you suppose the alternative is? Don't comply, then don't do business? Is that reasonable in your opinion (well opinion is based on facts, so that might be a stretch, more like feeling)? You have a better chance of effecting change if you have a seat at the table. Taking your ball and going home doesn't help anyone. Personally, I think it would be a violation of our constitutional rights against unreasonable search and seizure here in the US to have the government access our data without a warrant. But, a law is a law, if the law says police can grab your stuff, they can, until the courts say no, that is wrong, get a warrant DA

Yes, I actually agree with you that there is not good alternative. But there is always an alternative and it's important to note the hypocrisy of companies like Apple (even though I love the company).

 

[transpo1]

How about putting up a banner every time a user tries to bring up blocked content that explains why the content is blocked. That way the Chinese people have some visibility into the extent to which their access is being restricted and if they want to collectively do something about that then they can at least try. This is very, very different to just silently blocking something.

Good idea but that also would never be allowed by the Chinese government.

 

[transpo1]

Fixed that for you.

Except for our customers in China, where we choose to do business, and therefore violate our own principles as applied here in the U.S.

Fixed it right back.

 

[transpo1]

A principle that Apple never said they will break local law with.

Of course. But it's a choice. Apple wants to be in that market, so chooses to comply with the law. But there is always a choice.

 

[transpo1]

So if a government is foreign companies should be allowed not to follow their regulations? And what's foreigners for a company that operates all over the world? And who decided which foreign government regulations should be followed and which should not be followed?

The point is they don't have to do business there. But they have chosen to do so.

 

[transpo1]

He’s completely correct. You can decide for yourself if Apple is more trustworthy (not flawless, kids) but he’s entirely correct about the VPN trust hole. Its also true that Apple’s implementation here looks complimentary to a VPN service rather than a replacement.


The “yes, but China, so nothing you just said matters,” argument is getting a little tired.

Awareness of the hypocrisy is important. No one said it doesn't matter (for customers in the U.S. and other relatively free countries).

 

[matrix07]

Of course. But it's a choice. Apple wants to be in that market, so chooses to comply with the law. But there is always a choice.

Depend on whose definition we could easily say Apple has no choice. 🙂