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Yes, there is so much potential for developers:
AD9LNqG.png
 
It's sad really because the XPS (best alternative) in my mind comes with Windows 10 but at least it has all the ports I need.
I don't know what you're going to do with your computer but I put myself in the list of those who think that Windows 10 is not as bad as pictured. Intel NUC I've built (present Mac Mini offer is a joke) maxed out to the impossible runs flawlessly since day 1. I admit it's only 3 months old but I'm really impressed
I hope Federighi becomes the next CEO. He seems to be more in line with the Jobs vision for Apple.
Too many bad frequentations lately, I think we lost him.
 
If the touch bar has that much potential, imagine what developers could do with a 12" diagonal touch bar.. MINDBLOW!

Oh, wait, I don't have to image how cool it is, I am on a 12" convertible now.
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Yes, it does both line in and line out.
You can also turn any headphone jack into a line-out with a simple adapter that has a capacitor the blocks the drive voltage.
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Hinge not stable: I agree.

1. Lot's of people use touch screen laptops and don't have any problems with stability.
2. If you are really worried about it, Surface Pros don't rely on a hinge, they have a rock-stable kickstand.
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Jobs on Touch Screen laptops:

“We’ve done tons of user testing on this,” Steve Jobs said in Wednesday’s press conference, “and it turns out it doesn’t work. Touch surfaces don’t want to be vertical. It gives great demo, but after a short period of time you start to fatigue, and after an extended period of time, your arm wants to fall off.”

https://www.wired.com/2010/10/gorilla-arm-multitouch/

And yet, I am almost 4 years in with Surface devices and that has _never_ been a problem. (Neither have fingerprints. They only show up in specific lighting, and I carry screen cleaner for those rare times.)
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For the last time, press FN!

63v4.jpg

ROFL, that is your answer? Every F-key is now a chord, and you still did nothing to address the fact that they cannot be touch-typed because their is nothing physical to demark the location.
 

You gotta love Craig's enthusiasm. He has almost the same passionate enthusiasm as Steve had. I was watching an intro of the PowerBook G4 from 2001 and 2003 and some younger folks here who grew up on iDevices don't realize how energetic Phil Schiller was back in the day. Apple lost its enthusiasm with these product intros. Forget smartphones for me. Grew tired of it all. All I want to do is study the rich history of Apple computers now.

Flashback 2003. Amazing quality for its time...
 
Poor Craig. It feels like him and Phil are the last of the SJ bred senior execs who actually want to innovate and push the boundaries. But they're held back by Timmy's penny pinching ******** and Jony's idiotic quest for an invisibly thin Apple device.

The way Craig says in his first answer, that they've been working on this for years.. to me it sounds like "FFS, Timmy finally let us get this out."

While I think Craig portrays (at least publicly) a much more optimistic direction for Apple to go, it seems to me that Phil is always announcing the less desirable features of new products (i.e. removing optical drive from iMac when it was not advantageous for them to do so on a desktop at the time, no headphone jack on iPhone). I wonder how long they can continue down the path they are headed with the much more than normal negativity surrounding the new MacBook Pro release, higher prices, more dongles, omitting Extension Cable and charging $19 for it, etc. and sustain growth. This is the first time I have been somewhat concerned about the only alternative OS platform to Windows for running mainstream desktop applications and if they will continue producing hardware that suits my needs to run it on.

They have gotten away with their price protection on old technology for a long time, and I think that the low-hanging fruit is gone, particularly concerning the Mac Pro. People are on to it and feel more than ever the value is diminishing.
 
I don't know what you're going to do with your computer but I put myself in the list of those who think that Windows 10 is not as bad as pictured. Intel NUC I've built (present Mac Mini offer is a joke) maxed out to the impossible runs flawlessly since day 1. I admit it's only 3 months old but I'm really impressed
Too many bad frequentations lately, I think we lost him.
I have a customized desktop who is doing the heavy lifting. My problem with Windows as a service is simple:

= I can't have an OS that doesn't allow me to turn of auto update. Imagine sitting in class wirting notes and this thing reboots or worse the update isn't ready for prime time and kills the laptop for a few days ...would make me a furious and as a student I can't have that
= MS removing features from the pro version so they can push their Microsoft store, lock screen ads and telemetry.
= hybrid OS I don't need nor want a touchscreen on my laptop so no tiles and apps please I need full programs
 
You mean last years CPU? That's what you are using to help excuse the price? That's rich.
I guess you're also going to ignore the rest of my post that details the rest of the improvements but doesn't align with your view of the situation. Very honorable. *slow clap*
 
To be sure, you're right - but NOT when you've got to take your eyes off the screen, hunch over the machine and hunt for the right button or slider to peck.

Well, it depends how it's used, but touch typing should be very possible with the common function key tasks.
 
I have a customized desktop who is doing the heavy lifting. My problem with Windows as a service is simple:

= I can't have an OS that doesn't allow me to turn of auto update. Imagine sitting in class wirting notes and this thing reboots or worse the update isn't ready for prime time and kills the laptop for a few days ...would make me a furious and as a student I can't have that
= MS removing features from the pro version so they can push their Microsoft store, lock screen ads and telemetry.
= hybrid OS I don't need nor want a touchscreen on my laptop so no tiles and apps please I need full programs

As a student you have still a lot to learn about computers in general and Windows in particular. Windows never starts an update when a computer is in use. It happens only when you are turning your computer off. You are offered two options - update and shut down or update and reboot. Secondly you actually can disable automatic updates. Quoting MS support:

Some Windows 10 editions let you defer upgrades to your PC. When you defer upgrades, new Windows features won’t be downloaded or installed for several months. Deferring upgrades doesn’t affect security updates. Note that deferring upgrades will prevent you from getting the latest Windows features as soon as they’re available.
 
Secondly you actually can disable automatic updates. Quoting MS support:

Some Windows 10 editions let you defer upgrades to your PC. When you defer upgrades, new Windows features won’t be downloaded or installed for several months. Deferring upgrades doesn’t affect security updates. Note that deferring upgrades will prevent you from getting the latest Windows features as soon as they’re available.
Note, though, that this is only possible on the Pro and Enterprise versions. The Home edition doesn't give you that choice. On the plus side, the Pro/Enterprise versions also let you disable automatic download of the updates using a group policy.

But overall, I think the new Windows Update is a huge step backwards. Even if it lets you "defer" updates, you still have a Damocles sword hanging over your head. One day you'll see a big "updates required" popup and Windows doesn't let you do anything unless you obey (I've had this happen multiple times at very unopportune times). Another major issue is that you cannot selectively disable updates, e.g. if you know one of them is causing problems on your hardware. It's either all or nothing.

Then you have all the little niggles such as the forced telemetry, ads in the start menu and lock screen etc. And it seems to get worse with every update (such as the lock screen that can no longer be disabled in the 1607 version).
 
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I don't mind Microsoft's telemetry if all it can see is the walls of a VM, and locates itself to the VPN exit node. Same for OSX. They gave me a walled garden, I gave them one back.
 
The Touchbar is an embarrassment. Years of ignoring and angering creative professionals has led to THIS... an emoji-selecting bar. Jesus!
 
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I have a customized desktop who is doing the heavy lifting. My problem with Windows as a service is simple:

= I can't have an OS that doesn't allow me to turn of auto update. Imagine sitting in class wirting notes and this thing reboots or worse the update isn't ready for prime time and kills the laptop for a few days ...would make me a furious and as a student I can't have that
= MS removing features from the pro version so they can push their Microsoft store, lock screen ads and telemetry.
= hybrid OS I don't need nor want a touchscreen on my laptop so no tiles and apps please I need full programs
Fair points, being the 2nd and 3rd more than enough to affect your choices. I am sure Windows 10 Pro lets you plan reboots but most important turn off or delay updates until you decide you want to go on.
 
lol

& "being just right to really pull this off" What was that movie the great heist lol Just really dumb about the ram, being the same for like 5 years ? Built in obsolescence. Have to get proficient with windows again. The Dell XPS are pretty tricked out with 32gB and 1TB SSD and 2Gb graphics for less and true 4K display ?

The XPS 13 tops out at 16gB.
The XPS 15 does allow 32gB, but a 2Gb NVidia 960 is the most card that you can have.
Screenshot 2016-10-30 05.35.09.png
 
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The Touchbar is an embarrassment. Years of ignoring and angering creative professionals has led to THIS... an emoji-selecting bar. Jesus!
It felt a bit like when your dad is trying to be cool.
"You kids like emojis? I made an emoji bar for you".

Apple some times feel like someones dad, who´s always late to understand everything.
 
As a student you have still a lot to learn about computers in general and Windows in particular. Windows never starts an update when a computer is in use. It happens only when you are turning your computer off. You are offered two options - update and shut down or update and reboot. Secondly you actually can disable automatic updates. Quoting MS support:

Some Windows 10 editions let you defer upgrades to your PC. When you defer upgrades, new Windows features won’t be downloaded or installed for several months. Deferring upgrades doesn’t affect security updates. Note that deferring upgrades will prevent you from getting the latest Windows features as soon as they’re available.

I guess you have to learn a lot more :)

Defering is not the same as disabling an update. Disabling means I'm the one who decides when I'm going to update my PC and not MS. I know you can defer updates but like someone mentioned it doesn't stop the sword of Damocles it just prolongs it for a few months. If by then the update still isn't stable and causing BSOD's then what? Be without my PC and take hand written notes or even worse not being able to do work on the go? Yeah sure sounds like a great way to study in an efficient manner.


Fair points, being the 2nd and 3rd more than enough to affect your choices. I am sure Windows 10 Pro lets you plan reboots but most important turn off or delay updates until you decide you want to go on.

Thank you yeah if Microsoft would fix that I would give them a chance but their practises of forcing Win 10 with even malware like tactics and removing features just to make sure people don't uninstall Windows store and Cortana.

The XPS 13 tops out at 16gB.
The XPS 15 does allow 32gB, but a 2Gb NVidia 960 is the most card that you can have.

Oh thank you well it's still very solid to even allow it and it's also DDR 4 RAM, so people can even buy faster speeds than 2.133 MHZ should they need it. In terms of dGPU just like the AMD version it's only a solid choice but I don't think people buying a MBP or XPS are looking for cutting edge GPU power because the GTX 10xx versions belong to the super heavy not much battery more gaming focused laptops from Razer and company.

I'm sure a lot of Apple fans wont like to hear it but maybe it's time for Yve to accept a reduced role or move on. He is an incredible talented man in terms of design but it feels more and more like his vision of a beautiful gadget is clouding his vision for functionality and practicality. Sinofsky from Microsoft was incredible talented too but the man was fixated on his vision on what users should like in his opinion and Ballmer went along with it...the end-result is well known.
 
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I'd buy that for a dollar!

Personally I think the touch bar is bloody awesome and really want one of these machines. I spend most of my time in Safari, Pages, Word, Keynote, Pixelmator, Final draft and to a lesser extent Final Cut. So I'm excited to see how the bar will work with those programs over the coming months.

You know, watching the past event, looking back to the previous Books (then often called PowerBooks), for half a split second or so I really thought Apple would celebrate and release that one more thing: a Retro Mac! Hello again, remember?
 
I was thinking the same thing. How the hell would I entrust access to my Mac to some off-box device that tells it that everything is ok and it should unlock? Pure craziness!

Then it dawned on me:
The Watch is doing this already! It unlocks by some biometric characteristic and tells a Mac via a wireless protocol to unlock.
Just like a keyboard would. Just different biometrics and a different wireless protocol.

Think of it: Why would Apple deprive MacPro and iMac users of the chance to spend their money via Apple Pay?
Doesn't the Apple Watch use iCloud and wifi to facilitate the unlocking? It's also a full blown computer on your wrist with a secure enclave built in. My point is that if you add all of those features into a wireless keyboard it will become very expensive and 'cumbersome' especially if you have to log your keyboard into iCloud in order to use it!
 
While I think Craig portrays (at least publicly) a much more optimistic direction for Apple to go, it seems to me that Phil is always announcing the less desirable features of new products (i.e. removing optical drive from iMac when it was not advantageous for them to do so on a desktop at the time, no headphone jack on iPhone). I wonder how long they can continue down the path they are headed with the much more than normal negativity surrounding the new MacBook Pro release, higher prices, more dongles, omitting Extension Cable and charging $19 for it, etc. and sustain growth. This is the first time I have been somewhat concerned about the only alternative OS platform to Windows for running mainstream desktop applications and if they will continue producing hardware that suits my needs to run it on.

They have gotten away with their price protection on old technology for a long time, and I think that the low-hanging fruit is gone, particularly concerning the Mac Pro. People are on to it and feel more than ever the value is diminishing.

To be honest, I didn't like Windows earlier, but having used the Surface Book with Win 10, I've become a fan. Microsoft has come a long way with Satya, and I can honestly say that the Surface Book is miles ahead of the MacBook. I have some gripes with it, and it is imperfect. But I would encourage anyone shopping for a new MacBook to first check out Surface. I think you will definitely find some plus points, which yes, does include Win 10 imo.
 
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I honestly don't think Apple cares. They are trying to be a premium brand, and not make $600 PCs.
Please, I didn't say anything about $600. Even my MacBook Air cost more than that at the time. I stated I wanted to go more premium, spending something around the prices of last year's MacBook pros. These new ones are just far more premium than even that. The devalued £ probably didn't help prices here in the UK either... anyway, enjoy your new machine.
 
To be honest, I didn't like Windows earlier, but having used the Surface Book with Win 10, I've become a fan. Microsoft has come a long way with Satya, and I can honestly say that the Surface Book is miles ahead of the MacBook. I have some gripes with it, and it is imperfect. But I would encourage anyone shopping for a new MacBook to first check out Surface. I think you will definitely find some plus points, which yes, does include Win 10 imo.
Only thing I wonder - does Windows still crash and give you blue screens? When it should not?

I´ve never had a bluescreen or wierd crashes on my Macbook ever. In nearly ten years. Only thing has been a couple of freezes where I need to physically restart it.
 
Holy hell guys.

This whole topic made me just want to check whats newest in the competition. And since Apple insists on not including touch in their screen, but now has in reality included a small touch screen on the keyboard, and expanded their existing multi touch pad, Microsoft has done something alot smarter.

They just allowed you to detach the whole screen and re-attach it in reverse. So you can use it as a tablet with extra battery and processor power. I actually am seriously considering it. They have really improved in the industrial design department too. Anyone who has this Surface book?

Honestly I´m actually surprised Apple didnt think of this and DO THIS.
en-INTL-PDP-Surface-Book-2016-Refresh-CR9-00001-F5-desktop.jpg
Surface is interesting and getting better every generation. Props to MS. The last one I used was kind of screen heavy so not ideal used on my lap in the key board laptop config. I forget who made the first flip-and-swivel-flat touch-screen device. But its been around long before the Surface. Surface combines it with detach though...
 
Even though it looks the same it doesnt mean it is the same. When the screen is detachable thats infact a whole new product. TWO products in one package.
 
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