Craig Federighi Says Touch Bar on New MacBook Pro Has 'So Much Potential' For Developers

[Ramius]

I got few people at the office that use them and they love them.
Two of them were previous MBP users that were mac "attached" since 2006.

I can totally understand that. The idea is genius.

And important to notice that, this is not the same thing as attatching a keyboard to a tablet. This is a laptop with a tablet inside. Where all the functionality just strengthens the other. I can seriously see myself flipping the screen around to do some video editing with that pen. Then detatching it from the keyboard to read some news in bed or the sofa, then reattach it to write an article later.

 

[Tech198]

Good stuff, however i'd feel a little better if the ESC key was physical.... U never know if the ESC key always be there when u need it most..

Just as long as the keys that are most important are always there and do not disappear just because it's now a touch bar, then the rest looks good.

 

[sshambles]

Replacing the headphone jack on the Mac with a lightning port would have made no sense. Unless they we're going to start making high quality lightning headphones/microphones and allowing 3rd parties to use lightning ports on their device. Apple didn't take the headphone jack to push lightning the did it to push wireless. Right now wireless isn't to the point where you could use it for "pro" work so taking it out with all the space they have in a MacBook would be foolish and unjustifiable.

They are literally doing this with the announcement of their iPhone 7 only having a Lightning port. Beats and Apple have made lightning ports for their music devices. More companies will follow.

Not keeping everything consistent does not make any sense. If they had the guts and 'courage' like they said they did, they'd have switched it to USB-C in the iPhone 7, but I expect that next year.

 

[organicCPU]

Hard work reading all this posts... Is there any app that can push my brain to read 370+ posts in 5 minutes? Just kidding...

I want to tell you a good news... We've got some new Macs!
Why are so many of you so disappointed?... We've got some new Macs!
Are you sad? Are you angry? Are you just not met in your wishes?
Are you out of money? Did you expect something that did never happen so far?
We've new Macs and should be happy! The average user wants a Mac to be this way! Why not you?
I understand! You are not average, you are special! So, we've got new Macs and are not satisfied! What can we do?
Why don't we calm down a bit? We've got new Macs! Let's celebrate! Let's get a little objective! Maybe we can find a reason to get happy!

How to begin? Maybe with an ?
Is it possible to have such a beautiful  typed to easily? Anyone knows the Combination? Yeah Vitmines ... so cool! Anyone knows how to type  on Windows? Simply type F000 then press ALT+X at the same time! Wow, I think I need an ! We could also press WIN+A and type charmap in the Run Window ... by the way, anyone wants to join the party? I couldn't find the Windows-Symbol on my keyboard, can anyone help? I'm going to talk to some guys and soon be back....

I'd like to see the Knightrider red light wave on it, anyone?!!

Cool Idea! Imagine the new speakers playing the anthem... Unfortunately the guide says something like... just use it for keys and such, not visuals...if I just had this TouchPad by hand right now, I could so easily insert .(edit:macrumors forum deleted all my emoticons :-((( ) ...Maybe there is a chance, that Pong or Mac Brickout will make it in the TouchBar. The movement of the rackets-key on the OLED bar, the game visuals on the screen above. Can anyone code this for us? Maybe the Knightrider red light will pass the test if you move the light yourself? I'm sure it will. Maybe there is a chance to programatically adjust the number of bounces of the red light. Then it would be a key press with a long feedback, not a visual. I hope it will be on it....or we can tweak it!

I really hope the touch bar apis will allow you someone to build an external keyboard with a touch bar.

Isn't that keyboard already built? See next Quote! Yes, that's probably the logical next step, to get an external keyboard with TouchBr, then one with pure OLED TouchKeys, then we get used to type on our cupboard on a laser show holograph keyboard called HoloTouch, then we type in our VR-eyeglasses watchOS 11 App called FingerTouch or will it be eyeOS?, then SIRI is typing for us and we'll soon forget at all how to type, cause our ""she""ri"" is the best secretary and can develop exactly the code we're thinking of (loud)...After that there will be some strange people asking for a pencil and a piece of paper. Maybe they will find something rare like that, if they'll search in some popular museums... Noone can say TouchBr won't change the world. The timeframe is just relative.....As usual....

Or plan B use the iPhone or iPad as an additional input device via BT or hook up, make an app with the touch bar
and you put it next to your MBP and do anything that needs doing.

These were my first thoughts. Why are they inventing a TouchBar of that size and at that place, if many people already have a bigger mobile TouchBar called paired iPd with a TouchBr App? I'm still thinking about it. Maybe I should consider to live test and compare! The only answer I could find so far is, that's practical if you are on the road and have no iPad, iPhone, iPod available and moving the mouse feels somehow strange or complicated. So in case of mobility, that could be clever. If you are at home and use your desktop laptop, that doesn't seem to feel really natural to me. Wait! Ah they released a laptop for mobility and are just late with the desktops....Now I can understand a little better! Maybe...

Love the feature, but I don't get the lineup or the mixed signals on the headphone jack

I swaer I saw Tim Cook at this forum, when we were discussing the headphone jack removal thread. He has heard us saying, we want the headphone jack. That's the only reason it hasn't gone! Thank you for leaving us the headphone jack, Tim! Besides: Everyone discussing so harsh in this thread should ask himself: what Tim could make positive out of the comments! That let's me look here:

Pros
4GB VRam
Faster Ports
new design brighter display
new keyboard butterfly 2.0
new speakers
I really like the much bigger touch pad
Faster hard drive

Cons
No 32GB Ram capability (this for me it´s crucial, and for the price, they should give us all the ram)
No 4K Display (HP and Lenovo offers 4k displays in their mobile workstations)
No Magsafe (This was like a signature on the Mac laptops)
Adaptors for everything

If Apple thinks that putting 32GB ram would make the iMac or the Mac Pro look less desirable, just increase the iMac and Mac Pro capabilities.

Give us the 32 GB option And the machine will be a best seller.

Almost what I'm thinking! Your Pros are making me so hppy ! We need more positive thinking here! Especially when trying to be objective and happy about the new Macs!
To the Pro arguments I add:
- bigger SSD drive (up to 2TB)

Did I get that right yesterday, the RAM is soldered on-board in all models? Was that really necessary to make us buy a soldering iron bundle? What is the prize for the first macrumors reader that can verify, he managed to put 32 GB in his brand new MacBook Pro without malfunction and visual impact? Can someone explain: why it is useful to make the memory not expandable to the processor limit? Battery too fast empty? (edit: Question partially answered in this thread: New MacBook Pros Max Out at 16GB RAM Due to Battery Life Concerns Yes, that's the reason, but doesn't explain why it's soldered!) Memory plopping out, when dropping from 3 feet? Ideas that make sense? Or is it just a lack of compatible 32 GB RAM modules in the delivery chain and we're going to get that as a silent update? I think I was hearing Craig saying ...from 16 GB, not ...of 16 GB at the Hello event stream.
The display with 4k – really? With 4GB VRAM o.k., but that's really a huge energy eater then. Instead of a 4K display, I personally would take a wide antiglare 1920x1200 px one and be o.k with that. For those of you editing video a lot: I can understand you! At some time, maybe the 16K display will be a low energy OLED and one can decide to touch it or not. I'm with you.
I'd have expected some kind of AppleWtch charging mechanism on the back. Inductive charging or Magsafe! Do you think there will be some kind of Magsfe plug off mechanism built into the USB-C charger wire?
Now we need to wait for the LG charging dock and adapter until december... Again the timeframe seems to be relative. Do you think it's relative long, too? Does the LG have Gbit Ethernet?

Hey we've got new Mcs! I think, I need to eat an !

Before I leave the party for today some words of comfort for all still disappointing:
- Mcs have never been cheap in price, as long as I remember! If you max 'em out, the price is getting relatively. If you have no money, then the cheapest Mc you can get, will still be a Mc. Compared to a car, more of a city car and no sports car or bulldozer, but still a Mc. If I do price comparison, prices of quality hardware of WIN- (Someone tell me how to type the windows flag, please!) or (edit: the penguin-symbol was deleted) NUX-"system-hardware", the prices are really close and the specs, too. If there is a higher fee for Macs at the low end range? Yes, unfortunately we all are poor creative individuals. But would you really wish that  goes near bankruptcy like years ago ;-) or that children are working for your Mac or that there is poison over poison in your device, that could be eliminated with ease? Do you think a Mac is no product? Products are made to make profits, too! Do you get EDU discounts? If not and you're really poor, then built a hckntsh and take the challengel or write Tim a letter and ask him politely for a refurbished Mac. O.K., I stop and shut my gosh, I'm with you, there are only less of us really rich of money.
- Specs, specs, specs. Mcs, as long as I remember, never have had the fastest, highest, top notch specs. Though, there are some special needs of individuals, there are none that are just average. To help sorting out the different Mc lines and models, we could specify differentiating profiles and poll for different specs. Maybe then, someone like Craig comes along at this forum and is going to recognize, that it would be clever to have better differentiation for gaming, drawing, making music, programming or whatever. Is there a need for an universal Mc? The specializing for me is that eGPU, modbook, low latency D/A interface, big external keyboard that still has physical working function keys, ...Much is already there and we are able to find it, if we open our minds. It's not just the number written in the specs, it's what you can do with that number or what you are better doing with another one. But, I'm with you when you're asking for better and newer hardware. Is Apple really so big at this time to handle all that? Maybe let them finish their campus and ask again. More relaxed, a little cooled down. Noone is going to hurt you. We should be old enough, not to scream if we don't get the toy we want. Let's try harder to find out, how to call for attention.

Don't be sad, like I was a little yesterday. Today I'm happy again. We've got new Mcs, let's make a prty! Where is that WINDWS-Sign❓

 

[Impatientmac]

They are literally doing this with the announcement of their iPhone 7 only having a Lightning port. Beats and Apple have made lightning ports for their music devices. More companies will follow.

Not keeping everything consistent does not make any sense. If they had the guts and 'courage' like they said they did, they'd have switched it to USB-C in the iPhone 7, but I expect that next year.

They are literally not doing this. They announced 3 wireless headphones and as far as I can tell there are no beats wired lightning headphones (google says they exist but I don't know where to buy them. Certainly not the Apple Store app) They are pushing Bluetooth not lightning as far as headphones go. More companies will probably follow but not as many as the market is default smaller than 3.5 headphones and Bluetooth.

They also included a 3.5 adapter with the iPhone 7 so any headphone that works on your MacBook can work on your iPhone out the box. The lighting headphones were made exclusively for the iPhone (maybe iPad as well but that's a stretch) other devices don't use lighting they are not trying to get other devices to use lightning. Saying it's not consistent is looking at the wrong thing. Both devices are comparable with the latest Bluetooth and I'm guessing the W1 chip as well. Very consistent. As far as switching to USB C maybe but I wouldn't be surprised if they kept the lightning and just changed the other side of the cable from USB A to USB C

 

[stevet]

I'm saying this isn't innovation.
[doublepost=1477675239][/doublepost]

Fingerprints less noticeable when in use.

So everything has to be innovative? Are you a child or adult? Serious question, I just want to know how to proceed with the conversation.

 

[Michael Goff]

So everything has to be innovative? Are you a child or adult? Serious question, I just want to know how to proceed with the conversation.

No, but they held off on updating the MBP for 18 months and gave people a less useful touchscreen, fingerprint scanner, no SD card slot, and a thinner package nobody was asking for. If you're going to wait that long, give us something.

 

[stevet]

My God, have a sense of humour, please. You all sound so serious around here.

The people around here are the people that will be buying these products, or not.... And have been waiting at least 2 solid years for updates. These updates don't really seem worth waiting for to be honest. They could have been doing processor and graphics updates every year and then released this.
[doublepost=1477702188][/doublepost]

No, but they held off on updating the MBP for 18 months and gave people a less useful touchscreen, fingerprint scanner, no SD card slot, and a thinner package nobody was asking for. If you're going to wait that long, give us something.

Less useful touchscreen? Considering there wasn't one on the last MacBook Pro I'm not sure where that comes from. The SD Card slot, I will argue was not useful to begin with, and wasn't worth putting in the first time.

They gave us a better screen, brighter and better color representation, faster processors, faster GPU's with more memory, and while I feel your pain with the ports, they will ultimately be better in the long run and make the computer future proof. I think they should have done another release before this one, for sure it wasn't worth waiting for for just the processor update. The better question is why didn't they make the iPhone with the same port.

 

[Michael Goff]

The people around here are the people that will be buying these products, or not.... And have been waiting at least 2 solid years for updates. These updates don't really seem worth waiting for to be honest. They could have been doing processor and graphics updates every year and then released this.
[doublepost=1477702188][/doublepost]

Less useful touchscreen? Considering there wasn't one on the last MacBook Pro I'm not sure where that comes from. The SD Card slot, I will argue was not useful to begin with, and wasn't worth putting in the first time.

They gave us a better screen, brighter and better color representation, faster processors, faster GPU's with more memory, and while I feel your pain with the ports, they will ultimately be better in the long run and make the computer future proof. I think they should have done another release before this one, for sure it wasn't worth waiting for for just the processor update. The better question is why didn't they make the iPhone with the same port.

Less useful than if they had put it on the screen itself is what I mean. And the SD card is used in some professional markets, which this is supposedly catering to. This is a less useful, but more powerful, Mac with a really good screen.

Edit: And more expensive for the privilege.

 

[smoledman]

Honestly I feel the touch bar is a dead end as input device compared to Surface Dial which works with every Windows 10 PC on day 1 and has a huge potential. Will Apple put the Magic Bar on stand-alone Apple keyboard when they revamp iMac next year? Who knows...

 

[Michael Goff]

Honestly I feel the touch bar is a dead end as input device compared to Surface Dial which works with every Windows 10 PC on day 1 and has a huge potential. Will Apple put the Magic Bar on stand-alone Apple keyboard when they revamp iMac next year? Who knows...

The Dial connects via BT. No reason why it can't be made to work for macOS and Linux.

 

[Abazigal]

No, but they held off on updating the MBP for 18 months and gave people a less useful touchscreen, fingerprint scanner, no SD card slot, and a thinner package nobody was asking for. If you're going to wait that long, give us something.

Or you could see it as a more useful function key row instead of a less useful touchscreen.

 

[Michael Goff]

Or you could see it as a more useful function key row instead of a less useful touchscreen.

That depends on developers. But I say less useful because it's also going to highlight the lack of touch screen in general. People are probably going to touch the bar and then the screen soon after. So we have a bar that depends heavily on third party that will likely lead to user confusion as they try to do what they do on their phones and tablets. Apple is getting people to think touch.

 

[craigd]

MKBHD looks so uninterested in this video he shouldn't have released it.

Maybe a good reviewer but he's a terrible interviewer

 

[Abazigal]

They are literally doing this with the announcement of their iPhone 7 only having a Lightning port. Beats and Apple have made lightning ports for their music devices. More companies will follow.

Not keeping everything consistent does not make any sense. If they had the guts and 'courage' like they said they did, they'd have switched it to USB-C in the iPhone 7, but I expect that next year.

Since when did "having guts and courage" equate doing whatever you said Apple had to do?

Reminds me of those "You have to do X to prove Y" immature dares we used to do as children, where X and Y are totally unrelated.

"If you don't run across the road, you are a coward." That sort of nonsense.

 

[organicCPU]

Honestly I´m actually surprised Apple didnt think of this and DO THIS.

Maybe they are waiting for the two-sided display? Imagine not to detach, just close the lid and continue working on the reverse side? The biggest problem to solve will be then: how to tell the device to go to sleep ;-) A Modbook looks making so much more sense for that use case!

 

[Ramius]

Maybe they are waiting for the two-sided display? Imagine not to detach, just close the lid and continue working on the reverse side? The biggest problem to solve will be then: how to tell the device to go to sleep ;-) A Modbook looks making so much more sense for that use case!

I have thought about this before. And point is, that is possible already now. So if they wanted to do it, they would have done it.

Now Apple is becoming the big company who is slow to change anything. I dont expect their Macs, Iphones or watches to change much at all in the next decade.

Could not have said it better than Engadget here:

"However, the new MacBook Pro's Touch Bar really amounts to a confession -- it's an acknowledgment that touch input can improve your computing experience, and that Apple has been missing out on technology that some PC users take for granted. As big a step forward as the Pro may be, it's not necessarily the giant stride that you might like."​

 

[cornycopier]

...Context-aware controls are huge productivity boosters...

To be sure, you're right - but NOT when you've got to take your eyes off the screen, hunch over the machine and hunt for the right button or slider to peck.

 

[zaxxon72]

My thought on this is that TouchID on a wireless keyboard would be difficult to implement. They would need to incorporate the SecureEnclave into the keyboard and then have some funky impenetrable mechanism whereby the keyboard can tell the Mac it is safe to unlock...

I was thinking the same thing. How the hell would I entrust access to my Mac to some off-box device that tells it that everything is ok and it should unlock? Pure craziness!

Then it dawned on me:
The Watch is doing this already! It unlocks by some biometric characteristic and tells a Mac via a wireless protocol to unlock.
Just like a keyboard would. Just different biometrics and a different wireless protocol.

Think of it: Why would Apple deprive MacPro and iMac users of the chance to spend their money via Apple Pay?

 

[576316]

You know, I have never found any Apple product to be subpar.

I've always been pleased with the premium feel. The quality of the materials. The fit, finish and design.

I also don't think you can fairly compare specs between the Mac and a PC. A PC is running Windows, which basically has to be compatible with a million different configurations of possible hardware. As such it HAS to run insanely fast to get anything done, given the inefficient code used to cover so many hardware configurations.

Conversely, since Apple make the OS and the hardware options, it's far easier for them to keep the code more efficient. So you can achieve more with less brute horse power.

300 horse power in a small sedan would be quite quick, put that in a Range Rover, and it might feel a bit sluggish.

I rarely find myself being too annoyed with the speed of my old MacBook Pro, now the new one has a quad core processor, faster memory and HD, more RAM, I'm thinking it will be fine.

I'm okay with a sensible balance between crazy powerful hardware, and reasonable battery life.

I would however argue that sometimes Apple is so obsessed with thin, that I'd almost rather have a fatter machine if they could fit more battery capacity in it.

Apple products since Steve Jobs are arguably subpar and their quality control seems almost none existent, particularly in the case of software.

 

[Savor]

Craig Federighi has 'so much potential' becoming a better Apple CEO than Tim Cook will ever be.

 

[stevet]

Craig Federighi has 'so much potential' becoming a better Apple CEO than Tim Cook will ever be.

Based on?
[doublepost=1477744156][/doublepost]

Less useful than if they had put it on the screen itself is what I mean. And the SD card is used in some professional markets, which this is supposedly catering to. This is a less useful, but more powerful, Mac with a really good screen.

Edit: And more expensive for the privilege.

So you think the only way to make this a pro machine is to add a complete touchscreen to the display and add a completely outdated SD card slot which gets minimal use, takes up a lot of internal space, and can be interfaced by using a USBC to SD hub? I think your take on this is so myopic and would serve so few. Anyway, I've heard what you think, I don't think it's worth continuing the conversation...

 

[organicCPU]

So if they wanted to do it, they would have done it.

I Agree! Obviously they don't want right now. Some time ago I had such a turnable device in my hands and it felt really clumsy to me to turn the display 180° and fold it. The hinge appeared very fragile. That made me think about what would happen, if one uses it heavily after, let's say, 1000 turnarounds? I'm not sure, if one can engineer something like that in a solid manner, let it feel natural and meet the usual high expectations of the Apple audience. Maybe there is a chance to make this rocking, but I don't see Apple covering that niche for the next time.

The other thing you said, that we've recently seen some antiquated progress might be true. There are better components available indeed. But if you look at AMD, NVIDIA, Intel and all the other suppliers for displays, drives, etc., you will realize that the new 15" doesn't bring in the bleeding edge or very latest possibilities, but a quite good standard that ought to be a reasonable compromise of efficiency and costs at this time. I think we can expect some changes until next summer. In general think the resulting product should be as tested and proven as possible. That's what I expect and I would be disappointed to get a more or less powerful computer that is totally in experimental state. For me to speak, I prefer stability over just approaching. That doesn't mean that I don't like to get the latest high-end. And yes, there are things I'm missing to get my job done straightforward. I don't complain so much, yet. I know that I need to change some things. If they are really for worse, I just don't know, the future will show.

A small anecdote for fun. The first Mac tower that I bought about 20 years ago had 4 MB VRAM. Because I wanted to Photoshop like crazy I bought a Radius Thunder Color graphics card with 16 MB VRAM and real time PS effects that alone nearly had the price of a new standard 15" MacBook Pro. I had the bleeding edge and was happy. I used it heavily and did a good job with it, but here the plot: I never could justify this real huge investment for me with myself, because I had that ugly occasional blue glitches in the finder all over the screen on my brand-new Mac appearing. My system was experimental, but high performant. That's the price you sometimes pay for this attitude. Now I have two Radius Thunder Color graphics cards (another was a present) resting in my attic. My old Mac is still running and I'm sometimes doing Photoshop with it for fun and use the internal 4 MB VRAM ;-)

 

[frankgrimes]

This is the point. Apple don't want you to choose for the cheaper way. And just to be sure you're not going to have bad ideas, directly removes the cheaper choice

That's exactly my problem with the new price modell. Want me to shell out over 2.000 bucks for a 13'inch, 16 gig version? Fine, but a freaking quad core i7 in a 13'inch body and increase the resolution to 4k. I mean I get it, the R&D for the touchbar is expensive but guess what people did ask for other more important stuff and not for a touchbar, which is in the wrong place and doesn't give any sort of tactical feedback (why not use the haptic engine for it?). Also what happens if Apple decides to release a "new touchbar" will they just pull the plug on the old one?

I know people will hate that opinion but for me the MBP was already small and thin enough I would have prefered more power, a better screen and a bigger battery. Also was there really a need to gimp the entry MBP that much? In Europe this thing is 1.699 € for the base version want 16 gig? + 200, want a stronger cpu? + 200 that's 2.199 € for a 13'inch MBP with only two slots and none of them is even USB and of course no SD card slot. Add to that the butterfly keyboard and only DDR 3 Ram and this thing is just overpriced for what it offers.

It's sad really because the XPS (best alternative) in my mind comes with Windows 10 but at least it has all the ports I need.

Yes, the Surfacebook i7 is nice but let's see first if Microsoft has figured the software problems out.

I hope Federighi becomes the next CEO. He seems to be more in line with the Jobs vision for Apple.

 

[Ramius]

Im sure the next Macbook update will introduce the touch bar to all macs. Making it their universal standard. And all the poor bastards who bought this years low end Mac will feel cheated.

How often do they refresh Macs now? Will the next update be in 2019? I think Im getting the Surface Book from last year instead. How would any decent person not? You get full touch screen, detachable tablet, the damn stylus is included in the package, and it also has additional ports on the charges, so you dont need to buy several stupid dongles. You get all this for a much lower price too.

Why should I pay insane ammounts of money for a macbook where the only thing new is a small touch strip? Can it really be that great?