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Im sure the next Macbook update will introduce the touch bar to all macs. Making it their universal standard. And all the poor bastards who bought this years low end Mac will feel cheated.

How often do they refresh Macs now? Will the next update be in 2019? I think Im getting the Surface Book from last year instead. How would any decent person not? You get full touch screen, detachable tablet, the damn stylus is included in the package, and it also has additional ports on the charges, so you dont need to buy several stupid dongles. You get all this for a much lower price too.

Why should I pay insane ammounts of money for a macbook where the only thing new is a small touch strip? Can it really be that great?

lol and they will charge an extra 500 bucks for the new MacBook no doubt - the education market is finished. You know those guys who wear those polo shirts with the oversized garish polo logo - thats what Apple is becoming.
 
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To be honest, I didn't like Windows earlier, but having used the Surface Book with Win 10, I've become a fan. Microsoft has come a long way with Satya, and I can honestly say that the Surface Book is miles ahead of the MacBook. I have some gripes with it, and it is imperfect. But I would encourage anyone shopping for a new MacBook to first check out Surface. I think you will definitely find some plus points, which yes, does include Win 10 imo.

I agree that Microsoft is putting a lot into their hardware offerings. I have not quite warmed up to Windows 10 with the data collection that it does by default, and I, personally, have found little advantage using Windows with a touchscreen. I feel more productive using OS X with the trackpad and gestures. Windows 10 is certainly stable, and I do have Windows 10 Enterprise installed on a few machines and VMs. It troubles me that they sell marketing space on the lock screen and embed it into the OS. But in regards to hardware, they are going for the "premium" market and it shows. I did have a Surface Pro 3 and although it was a good tablet, the type cover left it standing uneasy if used on anything but a hard, flat, surface. The Surface Book doesn't have that disadvantage due to he hinges.

The Windows Store haven't had any compelling applications offered on it for me to benefit from it. I thought it took quite the nerves to sell Solitare "Premium" for a subscription. They are milking the whole subscription thing as bad as Adobe.

Are you running Windows 10 Pro?
 
It is strange to see that Microsoft has not yet been able to launch Surface book or studio in my country. This is the company that once had all the global distribution muscle in the world. But now it is Apple who is actually able to launch a product worldwide here.

Anyone here work at Microsoft? Im hoping to see it sometime early next year. But even though their product is genius. Their release strategy certainly is not on par with Apple.
 
Only thing I wonder - does Windows still crash and give you blue screens? When it should not?

I´ve never had a bluescreen or wierd crashes on my Macbook ever. In nearly ten years. Only thing has been a couple of freezes where I need to physically restart it.

The Surface Book Pro I used for almost a quarter didn't experience any blue screens of death, or any crashes that required . In fact, I don't remember using the Ctl + Alt + Del function at all.

Admittedly, there were times where MS Outlook or Chrome would cause the Surface Book to display the "rainbow" Win equivalent, but pressing the X close button to force the app to close solved it. Didn't need to go through the Ctl + Alt + Del, or shut down/restart. And if I can be perfectly honest, I have had that (and continue to have that) problem with the current MacBook (rainbows at random situations).

So overall, a very pleasant experience with Surface Book, with admissible hiccups. I encourage you to check it out in a store, and to try to "break it" (software wise). It's certainly more robust than Windows has been previously.

(Side note, my current Win 7 workstation has similarly never experienced Blue screen of death in using it for 4 years.)
 
The Surface Book Pro I used for almost a quarter didn't experience any blue screens of death, or any crashes that required . In fact, I don't remember using the Ctl + Alt + Del function at all.

Admittedly, there were times where MS Outlook or Chrome would cause the Surface Book to display the "rainbow" Win equivalent, but pressing the X close button to force the app to close solved it. Didn't need to go through the Ctl + Alt + Del, or shut down/restart. And if I can be perfectly honest, I have had that (and continue to have that) problem with the current MacBook (rainbows at random situations).

So overall, a very pleasant experience with Surface Book, with admissible hiccups. I encourage you to check it out in a store, and to try to "break it" (software wise). It's certainly more robust than Windows has been previously.

(Side note, my current Win 7 workstation has similarly never experienced Blue screen of death in using it for 4 years.)
A quarter what? Not very long though. Because if there was one natural law before - Windows crashed into blue screen alot.

I cant go into a store and check it out sadly. They havent released it in my country. Or many other countries.
 
I agree that Microsoft is putting a lot into their hardware offerings. I have not quite warmed up to Windows 10 with the data collection that it does by default, and I, personally, have found little advantage using Windows with a touchscreen. I feel more productive using OS X with the trackpad and gestures. Windows 10 is certainly stable, and I do have Windows 10 Enterprise installed on a few machines and VMs. It troubles me that they sell marketing space on the lock screen and embed it into the OS. But in regards to hardware, they are going for the "premium" market and it shows. I did have a Surface Pro 3 and although it was a good tablet, the type cover left it standing uneasy if used on anything but a hard, flat, surface. The Surface Book doesn't have that disadvantage due to he hinges.

The Windows Store haven't had any compelling applications offered on it for me to benefit from it. I thought it took quite the nerves to sell Solitare "Premium" for a subscription. They are milking the whole subscription thing as bad as Adobe.

Are you running Windows 10 Pro?

Yes I am.

The whole advertising on lock screen does irk me. I think you can turn off data collection (agree though, that it should not be on by default).

I see what they're doing with the subscription program, but to be honest, Apple can be found guilty of pushing its own versions of subscriptions. Just not in the same formats (cough, Apple Music).

I find the Windows Store to be much less equipped than Mac App Store, true. But if I can be honest, I haven't used either stores in months. I think iOS App Store is the only one that I use frequently.

Overall, it comes down to preference of course. But having used both, I can at least attest that it's a worthy option for those looking for anything besides MacBooks. I love the option of having the touch functionality (so damn useful on spreadsheets), so I'm not sure if I agree with Apple's direction of all touch being at the bottom.
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A quarter what? Not very long though. Because if there was one natural law before - Windows crashed into blue screen alot.

I cant go into a store and check it out sadly. They havent released it in my country. Or many other countries.

Ah sorry, a financial quarter. About 3 months. I agree with that natural law, but in the past only. My workstation is Win 10 (upgraded from Win 7), and thankfully have never seen a blue screen of death for the past 4 years. I use MBPr when traveling and at home now, and realistically I'm satisfied with both worlds.

Just saying that Window's performance has strengthened a lot, to the point where the stereotypical blue screen of death and viruses, etc., are days of the past. Especially since Win provides its own security solution (thank riddance to McAfee).
 
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Yes I am.

The whole advertising on lock screen does irk me. I think you can turn off data collection (agree though, that it should not be on by default).

I see what they're doing with the subscription program, but to be honest, Apple can be found guilty of pushing its own versions of subscriptions. Just not in the same formats (cough, Apple Music).

I find the Windows Store to be much less equipped than Mac App Store, true. But if I can be honest, I haven't used either stores in months. I think iOS App Store is the only one that I use frequently.

Overall, it comes down to preference of course. But having used both, I can at least attest that it's a worthy option for those looking for anything besides MacBooks. I love the option of having the touch functionality (so damn useful on spreadsheets), so I'm not sure if I agree with Apple's direction of all touch being at the bottom.

I agree with your observation. The markets are certainly changing and that is to be expected in this industry without question. My personal opinion on it is that Microsoft and Apple are looking to expand their cloud services and turn as many products as possible into subscriptions, which I still cannot justify for my personal use. This model probably works well for some users and students with discounted education pricing on products, however with the industry I am in a perpetual license makes more sense at this time. I prefer my software not need to validate over the Internet each time it is launched to determine if it is authorized to run or if it is not. It simply adds a level of complexity that I feel is not needed and a potential for failure (although I admit, rare).

You are correct that Apple is trying to capitalize on the Apple Music subscription, and as a new generation of users adopt technology, this will probably become the norm. Showing my age, I still purchase CDs and I subscribe to Apple Music. I do find some cloud services provide value and as long as they are not holding my business data that is relevant to my well being, I don't mind to use cloud services for photos, music, and sharing non-sensitive files.

I am just not ready to jump fully on board to cloud services that provide functionality that a local machine or network can provide securely and is not at the mercy of a DDoS attack or other Internet outage. Cloud providers for some products also have a tendency to make an exit strategy complicated and difficult.

OS X (or macOS if you will) and Windows 10 have certainly matured to the point to where they have become very reliable and stable, which is very welcome from the MS-DOS-based Windows 95/98/Me days. Windows NT 4.0 raised the bar with some notable drawbacks (no USB support or FAT32 support when it would have been very useful) and as Microsoft has matured the product in Windows 7 (although I feel that may be intentionally neglecting it now) and subsequently Windows 10, it continues to be a very stable and reliable product. Although I disagree with some of the decisions Steve Ballmer made when he was running the company, and I don't know if he had a hand it in or not, but the company was much more privacy-oriented when he was at the top. Since the new CEO took over he has changed the direction of the company, made some clearly positive changes, and some may he saved the company in many ways, churning out quality hardware products (after a few misses) and launching a successful Windows 10 Upgrade campaign. It does disturb me that Windows 10 is just so leaky by default, guiding you down the path of it sending a great deal of data back to Microsoft without explaining to you what its intentions are with the ill-described "Express Setup" options. I hate to say it as I have always had a great amount of respect for Microsoft and their productivity, server, and Windows products, this sudden shift into making Windows 10 a data-gathering and marketing tool has tainted my opinion of them and their respect for privacy. As once the de-facto standard for business desktops and the inherent trust that comes with that with keeping corporate data secure and private, they have sacrificed that image and trust with the default options of a Windows 10 installation.

I do use Windows 10 Enterprise and Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB 2016 and they are quality products. My only complaint is for Microsoft to respect users privacy by default and make all other features that rely on sending data back to Microsoft an opt-in function.

I have used Microsoft products exclusively since the MS-DOS 3.11 days, and was never really exposed to Macintosh hardware until they switched to Intel processors as most of my work revolved around x86 applications. After Apple made the Intel switch, I developed an interest in the Macintosh and OS X, and Apple has, IMO, perfected the multitasking capabilities of a desktop OS with their superior Trackpad technology and Multitouch combined with the gestures that OS X supports superbly. In the end, it gets down to what one is used to. I am not a gamer, which Windows is superior at, and rely on multiple operating systems and many Terminal/UNIX-based programs to accomplish my work, and OS X works great for those tasks. I am also heavily invested in VMware Fusion, Workstation, ESXi, and vSphere, and these products can be successfully managed with OS X. Network and *NIX operating systems benefit with the native ssh client in OS X (knowing that putty is a quick and small download), it is nice to have it there ready to use, along with vim and other UNIX commands. We are at an interesting time in computing - Apple embraced Touch with the iPhone then iPad, the Microsoft bet the company on it with Windows 8 and didn't quite get it right but they haven't given up, and Apple is still sticking to their original idea that touch is just not feasible on a desktop or notebook computer. Thus far, I have to agree with Apple although that may change in the future.
 
I agree with your observation. The markets are certainly changing and that is to be expected in this industry without question. My personal opinion on it is that Microsoft and Apple are looking to expand their cloud services and turn as many products as possible into subscriptions, which I still cannot justify for my personal use. This model probably works well for some users and students with discounted education pricing on products, however with the industry I am in a perpetual license makes more sense at this time. I prefer my software not need to validate over the Internet each time it is launched to determine if it is authorized to run or if it is not. It simply adds a level of complexity that I feel is not needed and a potential for failure (although I admit, rare).

You are correct that Apple is trying to capitalize on the Apple Music subscription, and as a new generation of users adopt technology, this will probably become the norm. Showing my age, I still purchase CDs and I subscribe to Apple Music. I do find some cloud services provide value and as long as they are not holding my business data that is relevant to my well being, I don't mind to use cloud services for photos, music, and sharing non-sensitive files.

I am just not ready to jump fully on board to cloud services that provide functionality that a local machine or network can provide securely and is not at the mercy of a DDoS attack or other Internet outage. Cloud providers for some products also have a tendency to make an exit strategy complicated and difficult.

OS X (or macOS if you will) and Windows 10 have certainly matured to the point to where they have become very reliable and stable, which is very welcome from the MS-DOS-based Windows 95/98/Me days. Windows NT 4.0 raised the bar with some notable drawbacks (no USB support or FAT32 support when it would have been very useful) and as Microsoft has matured the product in Windows 7 (although I feel that may be intentionally neglecting it now) and subsequently Windows 10, it continues to be a very stable and reliable product. Although I disagree with some of the decisions Steve Ballmer made when he was running the company, and I don't know if he had a hand it in or not, but the company was much more privacy-oriented when he was at the top. Since the new CEO took over he has changed the direction of the company, made some clearly positive changes, and some may he saved the company in many ways, churning out quality hardware products (after a few misses) and launching a successful Windows 10 Upgrade campaign. It does disturb me that Windows 10 is just so leaky by default, guiding you down the path of it sending a great deal of data back to Microsoft without explaining to you what its intentions are with the ill-described "Express Setup" options. I hate to say it as I have always had a great amount of respect for Microsoft and their productivity, server, and Windows products, this sudden shift into making Windows 10 a data-gathering and marketing tool has tainted my opinion of them and their respect for privacy. As once the de-facto standard for business desktops and the inherent trust that comes with that with keeping corporate data secure and private, they have sacrificed that image and trust with the default options of a Windows 10 installation.

I do use Windows 10 Enterprise and Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB 2016 and they are quality products. My only complaint is for Microsoft to respect users privacy by default and make all other features that rely on sending data back to Microsoft an opt-in function.

I have used Microsoft products exclusively since the MS-DOS 3.11 days, and was never really exposed to Macintosh hardware until they switched to Intel processors as most of my work revolved around x86 applications. After Apple made the Intel switch, I developed an interest in the Macintosh and OS X, and Apple has, IMO, perfected the multitasking capabilities of a desktop OS with their superior Trackpad technology and Multitouch combined with the gestures that OS X supports superbly. In the end, it gets down to what one is used to. I am not a gamer, which Windows is superior at, and rely on multiple operating systems and many Terminal/UNIX-based programs to accomplish my work, and OS X works great for those tasks. I am also heavily invested in VMware Fusion, Workstation, ESXi, and vSphere, and these products can be successfully managed with OS X. Network and *NIX operating systems benefit with the native ssh client in OS X (knowing that putty is a quick and small download), it is nice to have it there ready to use, along with vim and other UNIX commands. We are at an interesting time in computing - Apple embraced Touch with the iPhone then iPad, the Microsoft bet the company on it with Windows 8 and didn't quite get it right but they haven't given up, and Apple is still sticking to their original idea that touch is just not feasible on a desktop or notebook computer. Thus far, I have to agree with Apple although that may change in the future.
Except you are agreing with a false argument.
Apple claims that touch simply does not work good with a vertical screen. Fine. All true.

But this is not how you use Surface Book. You can, and I´m sure it even enhances the way you work on a laptop, if you can manipulate the screen every once in a while, without getting gorilla arm.

But the fact that you detach the screen to use it as a tablet, or reverse it to use it as some sort of power tablet, creates a whole scenario that Apple has not even touched upon. Then you are using the screen flat. In the same angle as an iPad or the multi touch track pad.
 
Except you are agreing with a false argument.
Apple claims that touch simply does not work good with a vertical screen. Fine. All true.

But this is not how you use Surface Book. You can, and I´m sure it even enhances the way you work on a laptop, if you can manipulate the screen every once in a while, without getting gorilla arm.

But the fact that you detach the screen to use it as a tablet, or reverse it to use it as some sort of power tablet, creates a whole scenario that Apple has not even touched upon. Then you are using the screen flat. In the same angle as an iPad or the multi touch track pad.

I am not disputing the Surface line of products are not good product. I agree they are quality products.

I, personally, have found the traditional Win32 applications do not work well for me as the UI elements designed for a traditional desktop with a pointing device and keyboard do not adapt well to touch. The interfaces in newer applications such Office 2013 and newer will slightly adjust to make them more touch friendly, spacing out the UI elements. In the end, I find that for an application to be touch friendly essentially needs to be a new application. Office for iPad shares little with Office for Windows or Office for OS X, except the name and superior file compatibility. The Windows Store really has no products of interest to me, and I feel still has not gained traction well. As I have seen someone else suggest, and as silly as it sounds, if Apple we to make such a device, the display would swing around to the back of the keyboard and iOS would boot, presenting iOS applications.
 
That ships this year, not next. But good try.

Dec 15 according to that article. So the model that ships, at the very least for the entirety of 2017, is Skylake. Magically not outdated for... reasons. Not a good try.

Apple have shipped them for a year. Dated specs in Suirface Studio :rolleyes:
 
Dec 15 according to that article. So the model that ships, at the very least for the entirety of 2017, is Skylake. Magically not outdated for... reasons. Not a good try.

Apple have shipped them for a year. Dated specs in Suirface Studio :rolleyes:

For the same reason Apple's MBP has it, the quad core Skylake they're is the most recent one out right now. There couldn't be a Kaby Lake iMac either.
 
For the same reason Apple's MBP has it, the quad core Skylake they're is the most recent one out right now. There couldn't be a Kaby Lake iMac either.

I know. If you stop rushing to defend Microsoft and look at the context of the post you replied to that was exactly my point. Jorg the Elder claimed Skylake was "last years cpu" in the context of Apple but had no answer for why it was shipping in Surface's, by his measure, almost 2 years later.
 
I know. If you stop rushing to defend Microsoft and look at the context of the post you replied to that was exactly my point. Jorg the Elder claimed Skylake was "last years cpu" in the context of Apple but had no answer for why it was shipping in Surface's, by his measure, almost 2 years later.

Just because somebody else says something stupid doesn't mean you should. Also, throw any company in there and I would have pointed out he same thing.
 
It's clear in context that I was pointing out the ridiculousness of his "year old cpu" nonsense. Though, by the time Surface Studio launches, that SKU of Skylake will indeed have been shipping and in iMacs for over a year. Not that there's anything better to put in there now.
 
There is something old in the Studio, btw, and that's the graphics card. Kind of wish they'd have thrown in something from the 1000 series. But they didn't.
 
A spinning disc? What do you mean?

I just looked it up. The Surface book uses Solid state drive like everyone else.

Surface Studio, you know, like in the posts where I mention Surface Studio?. Can't be ordered in any configuration that doesn't have a spinning disc. SSD isn't even optional.
 
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