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THIS WHOLE THING is getting more and more redundant and ridiculous... This is worse than the Balloon Boy saga... Seriously, can we STOP with the news updates on this?

I think the whole situation is fascinating and one of the most interesting things to come along in years. It's got everything a good story needs: Intrigue, suspense, criminal activity, stolen secrets, good vs bad, smug gossip brokers, search warrants, legal wrangling, big business, and hoopla over a device that is desired by millions! Tomorrow will probably add: Arrests, handcuffs, fingerprinting and photography!

Please keep the news updates coming! :)

Mark
 
The anti-corporate stance is reflected in the media as well, the article itself really wasn't that different from the comments (Apple = gestapo, Chen = victim, more or less).

It is sad to see such an ill-informed population then. Our media is hardly better, but seeing a criminal as a victim just because you do not like the organization they committed a crime against speaks of serious issues.

If your position is that the majority of the population even cares, and if they do care feels the way you described, Sweden is a very sad place.
 
I just watched Countdown with Keith Olberman on MSNBC. Keith had guest Jonathan Turley, a professor of law at The George Washington University Law School, on to talk about the iPhone situation and the search warrant served on Jason Chen. The main question of the interview was whether or not Jason Chen and Gizmodo are protected due to laws protecting journalists. I felt Turley did a good job of touching on multiple points of view but, bottom line, it was his opinion that due to the CRIMINAL nature of the investigation, it is likely that the search warrant will stand as valid. So, one more legal mind siding with the San Mateo DA.

My favorite bit of Turley's interview was when Olberman asked if Jason Chen was a journalist and Turley's initial response was, "If he is, he's not a very good one!" :D

Mark


But, but,but...Jason (aka pastparticiple), told me there was no crime.
 
I just watched Countdown with Keith Olberman on MSNBC. Keith had guest Jonathan Turley, a professor of law at The George Washington University Law School, on to talk about the iPhone situation and the search warrant served on Jason Chen. The main question of the interview was whether or not Jason Chen and Gizmodo are protected due to laws protecting journalists. I felt Turley did a good job of touching on multiple points of view but, bottom line, it was his opinion that due to the CRIMINAL nature of the investigation, it is likely that the search warrant will stand as valid. So, one more legal mind siding with the San Mateo DA.

My favorite bit of Turley's interview was when Olberman asked if Jason Chen was a journalist and Turley's initial response was, "If he is, he's not a very good one!" :D

Mark

I think the warrant is valid and will stand barring any procedural issues.

The thing that everyone here assumes though is that the phone was stolen. I have a feeling that no charges have been filed yet because that is what the DA is trying to figure out. It's easy to say if the finder didn't do X (and really, trying random email addresses at Apple is likely beyond reasonable) then it was stolen, but what you or I think is reasonable may or may not be reasonable in the DA's eyes, the judges, and ultimately under CA law. IMHO, that is the big question that the DA is trying to answer and it's not as simple as people on here are trying to make it seem.

And, obviously the engineer and his lawyers are leaning on the DA because it's CYA time. If he was negligent and got drunk and left the phone in a bar, then I would fire him on the spot. He has to push that the phone was taken off his person in order to keep his job. On the other side you have the finder who is saying the opposite. The police are in the middle trying to figure out the real facts in the case.

*EDIT*

And to add some reference to what I just said above. Apple Insider is reporting that the San Jose Business Journal has talked to the DA.

“We’re still not saying it’s a crime,” San Mateo County Chief Deputy District Attorney Steve Wagstaffe told the Journal
 
But, but,but...Jason (aka pastparticiple), told me there was no crime.

:rolleyes:

If Steve was still endorsing Gizmodo as his favorite tech news site you guys would be donating your lunch money in it's legal defense. But since Giz is PNG'd by Apple the legion must follow blindly.
 
I really still think this is all a set up. Do you know how much publicity Apple and Gidmodo are getting from this?

Why on earth would an APPLE ENGINEER just "loose" the NEXT IPHONE??? He would be guarding that piece of technology WITH HIS LIFE.

Apple is just trying to hype up the iPhone, even more than it already is.

Just like they released the iPad, then announced iPhone OS 4.0... they are just trying to over hype.. and its working

Just my opinion, but I guarantee a different iPhone will be launched this Summer.

I have to say that in light of all that is known about this,combined with Apple's normal philosophy about leaks etc.,that your opinion is just simply amazing.
Wow.
 
Its stupidity on part of Giz, and they have to pay dearly for it. Its not like they are doing any public service like other journalists do. Its a trade secret which belongs to a corporation. What kind of journalist principle do apply here?

The guy who took the phone have no right to that property. He should have just left it at the bar or turned it over to the management or the police. Now there is a lot of legal hassle waiting for all these people involved. Why take all this legal risk? just for the bragging rights and few millions hits. If those millions of hits turned into some profit, it is going to cost a lot more to get out of this legal trouble.

People doesn't return someone else's property anymore? (calling applecare doesn't count, if they did at all). Instead, they think it belongs to them and profit from it. And Giz is even publicly admitted they knowingly bought an item from someone who is not the owner of the item. Stupid Giz.
 
We don't know the full situation. Why didn't the employee call his prototype phone (assuming you could access Facebook, it had a cellular connection)? Why didn't he track the location via Mobileme?

There is a limited window of time in which Apple has to decide whether to remotely wipe the phone. If the guy who finds the phone understands iPhones he could have switched the phone to airport mode. This could have happened while the engineer was tracking the phone through MobileMe (assuming that it was functional). Apple would then be unable to track the phone or remotely wipe it, but the guy who found it would have access to details of the operating system and personal information on the phone. So they chose to wipe the phone first and ask questions later. There's probably a protocol for that kind of thing.
 
I am amazed at the assumption I want your "tips". Far too many of you assume you are in some position to teach others. This is not your private fifedom.

Far too many people ALSO assume lack of condemnation for Gizmodo's actions equals support of theft. I do not see it as black and white as some of you yet you cast a massive blankt assumption on those who don't agree with you hook, line and sinker. Get over it...not everyone is as impressed with you as you are.

I don't know anyone who's impressed with me, except occasionally my daughter (10 month olds are easy to impress). I didn't assume you wanted it; I figured you probably didn't. I was offering it up just in case you might put it in your pocket and think about it.

It isn't a simple lack of condemnation, as you well know (since you're the one who's typed all your comments). You've encouraged it and justified it and excused it. Shrug. Not much else to say.
.
 
Not much else to say.
.

Thank god. The rest of your post is dripping with smug arrogance. The assumption that you are in a position to "give me something to think about" is absurd. It reeks of you imagining yourself a wise teacher lecturing a student. You have tried everything from calling me a teenager (I am older than you), to labeling me a troll. You made it personal and took it personal when I made general comments.

I guess you are going to have to spend more time lecturing your kid to get it out of your system...captive audience and all.
 
The guy left the phone in a bar. Chen gave Apple the phone back when they asked for it. It's just a phone, not a top secret weapon. Steve's a** is just chaffed, how about that guy who showed Woz the ipad and got fired.

I'm getting a "FREE CHEN" T-Shirt.
 
My First Post!

I rarely check out the forums on macrumors, but I thought I'd chime in like everyone else!

BTW, I am not a lawyer so take what I say as just opinion :)

1. Apple's doing this for publicity!
As we all know, Apple is very controlling about their brand and marketing. By bringing in others into the situation (as in the police), they will lose incredible amounts of control of what is going on, what people will say, and how everything will be perceived. In my opinion, they would not do this.

2. Lost vs stolen!
General definitions--
Lose: 2. To miss from one's possession... Webster.com
Steal: 1a. To take or appropriate without right ... with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully webster.com

So based on this, the phone what both lost by Powell and stolen by the finder.

But how about the laws of California?

I'll admit I didn't read it all, but here are some sections I thought were interesting...


484. (a) Every person who shall feloniously steal, take, carry, lead, or drive away the personal property of another, or who shall
fraudulently appropriate property which has been entrusted to him or
her, or who shall knowingly and designedly, by any false or
fraudulent representation or pretense, defraud any other person of
money, labor or real or personal property, or who causes or procures
others to report falsely of his or her wealth or mercantile character
and by thus imposing upon any person, obtains credit and thereby
fraudulently gets or obtains possession of money, or property or
obtains the labor or service of another, is guilty of theft. In
determining the value of the property obtained, for the purposes of
this section, the reasonable and fair market value shall be the test,

and in determining the value of services received the contract price
shall be the test.​

Finder did "steal" the prototype. Not sure if it works like this but since Gizmodo/Jason Chen admitted to paying $5000 for it, they admitted to a "fair market value"... which in reality is probably much more.

485. One who finds lost property under circumstances which give him knowledge of or means of inquiry as to the true owner, and who
appropriates such property to his own use, or to the use of another
person not entitled thereto, without first making reasonable and just
efforts to find the owner and to restore the property to him, is
guilty of theft.​

The finder could have given the phone to the bar owner/employees. But think about this....
Gizmodo announced the identity of Gray Powell. How did they get his name despite the phone being remotely wiped??? The finder found his identity on the phone's facebook app. Link

"During that time, he played with it. It seemed like a normal iPhone. "I thought it was just an iPhone 3GS," he told me in a telephone interview. "It just looked like one. I tried the camera, but it crashed three times." The iPhone didn't seem to have any special features, just two bar codes stuck on its back: 8800601pex1 and N90_DVT_GE4X_0493. Next to the volume keys there was another sticker: iPhone SWE-L200221. Apart from that, just six pages of applications. One of them was Facebook. And there, on the Facebook screen, was the Apple engineer, Gray Powell.

Thinking about returning the phone the next day, he left. When he woke up after the hazy night, the phone was dead. Bricked remotely, through MobileMe, the service Apple provides to track and wipe out lost iPhones. It was only then that he realized that there was something strange that iPhone. The exterior didn't feel right and there was a camera on the front. After tinkering with it, he managed to open the fake 3GS."

So the finder knew of Gray Powell's identity, and could have contacted him directly via facebook. Could have just said...."o hey did you or a friend lose a phone at a bar last night?" He didn't. He thought about it. Saw something unique and opened up the phone. Whether prototype, real, fake, owned by a company or individual, the finder didn't really do their due diligence to find the owner.

Laws continued!
486. Theft is divided into two degrees, the first of which is
termed grand theft; the second, petty theft.

487. Grand theft is theft committed in any of the following cases:
(a) When the money, labor, or real or personal property taken is
of a value exceeding four hundred dollars ($400) except as provided
in subdivision (b).​

The value is at least $5000 (what gizmodo paid), and is therefore considered grand theft.


496. (a) Every person who buys or receives any property that has
been stolen or that has been obtained in any manner constituting
theft or extortion, knowing the property to be so stolen or obtained,

or who conceals, sells, withholds, or aids in concealing, selling,
or withholding any property from the owner, knowing the property to
be so stolen or obtained, shall be punished by imprisonment in a
state prison, or in a county jail for not more than one year.

However, if the district attorney or the grand jury determines that
this action would be in the interests of justice, the district
attorney or the grand jury, as the case may be, may, if the value of
the property does not exceed nine hundred fifty dollars ($950),
specify in the accusatory pleading that the offense shall be a
misdemeanor, punishable only by imprisonment in a county jail not
exceeding one year.

Not sure what to make of the last part... it may mean that since the value is over $950 it is considered a felony. But anyway... someone knowing that they are buying something stolen is a crime, punishable by jailtime. Gizmodo knew the phone was not the property of the finder.


3. Gray Powell will get fired!
He lost the prototype phone a month ago, and appears to still work for Apple. If they were going to fire him, they would have done so by now.


Just my opinions
 
The guy left the phone in a bar. Chen gave Apple the phone back when they asked for it. It's just a phone, not a top secret weapon. Steve's a** is just chaffed, how about that guy who showed Woz the ipad and got fired.

I'm getting a "FREE CHEN" T-Shirt.

as per the california law, Chen bought an illegal property just for bragging rights, so he is paying for it now.
 
I'm getting a "FREE CHEN" T-Shirt.

You are likely to be attacked by a rabid Apple fan if seen wearing it. Good news is they won't be able to do much damage with their purses. Be safe.

Now, head on over to your local newspaper's website. I imagine someone shoplifted an iPod today from the neighborhod Best Buy and could use your support in the comments section.

Nah I will stay....feel free to leave though.
 
Alot of people are wondering why i took so long to report it stolen here is a possible scenero:

Phone goes missing on March 18 ..I am sure Apple is told the next day by Gray..Apple "bricks" the phone..at this point most likely Apple does not know who has the phone ..it could be Ma Kettle that has no clue what it is or it could be a good citizen that is trying to return it or it could be someone that knows what they have..Apple does not want to report it stolen due to the possible bad press plus everybody and their brother would be trying to find it..so Apple waits hoping the person that found it tossed the "bricked" phone away ..which would save the embarressment of reporting a proto phone stolen/missing..if it never turns up the public never needs to know it happened..a month later Gizmodo has splashed it all over ..now Apple reports it stolen...

In my scenero i think Apple followed what most Fortune 500 companies would do under the circumstances..one of the problems with my scenero is that Apple would need to file a police report when it went missing for insurance purposes...
 
:rolleyes:

If Steve was still endorsing Gizmodo as his favorite tech news site you guys would be donating your lunch money in it's legal defense. But since Giz is PNG'd by Apple the legion must follow blindly.

I really like the way you think, pastparticiple. :)

I truly believe -- and I'm not just being hyperbole here -- that some people here would love (just chomping at the bit) to see some deranged Apple stock holder/fanboy beat Jason to a bloody pulp so they could gloat and say "He got what he deserves" and hype Steve Jobs up as some Clint Eastwood technology messiah who takes no guff (even though Jobs himself didn't "punish" Chen; it's justice FOR Steve).

That's how truly monstrous and hypocritical I believe these fanboys here are. They'd CHEER if this all became too much for Jason take and he hanged himself as a result. Fanboys here would literally jizz themselves as a result. They could wish for nothing more than the world to be rid of this guy who let's face it-- made a mistake in BUYING the phone and then taking it apart.

Actually, if Jason couldn't take it and killed himself (like the Apple employee in China), you'd call him a coward or take that as some sign of guilt. He's in an absolute no-win situation with you guys. And I bet you'd gladly take videos of you guys peeing on his grave and uploading it to YouTube and sharing it here. Oops, doesn't that use FLASH???!!!

If he had stuck to his journalist ethics and accepted the product as-is and only taken photos of it, he'd be in the clear right now thumbing his nose at you Apple losers for being so stupid (giving a highly-coveted prototype to an employee and letting him go drinking it with it).

If this had been an Microsoft or Google product, you'd aaaaall be laughing your pathetic asses off at them and tell them to go suck an egg. But because it's your Steven H. Jobs-Christ's product, "give Jason the tar and feather treatment; he most certainly deserves it".

Man, you guys are pathetic. And I won't buy your claims all you wish for is long prison time for Chen. That's NOT how fanboys opperate. They want blood. They just do. They're THAT rabid. Tsk.

You're a bunch of animals.
 
as per the california law, Chen bought an illegal property just for bragging rights, so he is paying for it now.

Just what California needs right now, lock this dangerous criminal up for 80K a year. He is such a threat to society.
 
I rarely check out the forums on macrumors, but I thought I'd chime in like everyone else!

BTW, I am not a lawyer so take what I say as just opinion :)

1. Apple's doing this for publicity!
As we all know, Apple is very controlling about their brand and marketing. By bringing in others into the situation (as in the police), they will lose incredible amounts of control of what is going on, what people will say, and how everything will be perceived. In my opinion, they would not do this.

2. Lost vs stolen!
General definitions--
Lose: 2. To miss from one's possession... Webster.com
Steal: 1a. To take or appropriate without right ... with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully webster.com

So based on this, the phone what both lost by Powell and stolen by the finder.

But how about the laws of California?

I'll admit I didn't read it all, but here are some sections I thought were interesting...


484. (a) Every person who shall feloniously steal, take, carry, lead, or drive away the personal property of another, or who shall
fraudulently appropriate property which has been entrusted to him or
her, or who shall knowingly and designedly, by any false or
fraudulent representation or pretense, defraud any other person of
money, labor or real or personal property, or who causes or procures
others to report falsely of his or her wealth or mercantile character
and by thus imposing upon any person, obtains credit and thereby
fraudulently gets or obtains possession of money, or property or
obtains the labor or service of another, is guilty of theft. In
determining the value of the property obtained, for the purposes of
this section, the reasonable and fair market value shall be the test,

and in determining the value of services received the contract price
shall be the test.​

Finder did "steal" the prototype. Not sure if it works like this but since Gizmodo/Jason Chen admitted to paying $5000 for it, they admitted to a "fair market value"... which in reality is probably much more.

485. One who finds lost property under circumstances which give him knowledge of or means of inquiry as to the true owner, and who
appropriates such property to his own use, or to the use of another
person not entitled thereto, without first making reasonable and just
efforts to find the owner and to restore the property to him, is
guilty of theft.​

The finder could have given the phone to the bar owner/employees. But think about this....
Gizmodo announced the identity of Gray Powell. How did they get his name despite the phone being remotely wiped??? The finder found his identity on the phone's facebook app. Link

"During that time, he played with it. It seemed like a normal iPhone. "I thought it was just an iPhone 3GS," he told me in a telephone interview. "It just looked like one. I tried the camera, but it crashed three times." The iPhone didn't seem to have any special features, just two bar codes stuck on its back: 8800601pex1 and N90_DVT_GE4X_0493. Next to the volume keys there was another sticker: iPhone SWE-L200221. Apart from that, just six pages of applications. One of them was Facebook. And there, on the Facebook screen, was the Apple engineer, Gray Powell.

Thinking about returning the phone the next day, he left. When he woke up after the hazy night, the phone was dead. Bricked remotely, through MobileMe, the service Apple provides to track and wipe out lost iPhones. It was only then that he realized that there was something strange that iPhone. The exterior didn't feel right and there was a camera on the front. After tinkering with it, he managed to open the fake 3GS."

So the finder knew of Gray Powell's identity, and could have contacted him directly via facebook. Could have just said...."o hey did you or a friend lose a phone at a bar last night?" He didn't. He thought about it. Saw something unique and opened up the phone. Whether prototype, real, fake, owned by a company or individual, the finder didn't really do their due diligence to find the owner.

Laws continued!
486. Theft is divided into two degrees, the first of which is
termed grand theft; the second, petty theft.

487. Grand theft is theft committed in any of the following cases:
(a) When the money, labor, or real or personal property taken is
of a value exceeding four hundred dollars ($400) except as provided
in subdivision (b).​

The value is at least $5000 (what gizmodo paid), and is therefore considered grand theft.


496. (a) Every person who buys or receives any property that has
been stolen or that has been obtained in any manner constituting
theft or extortion, knowing the property to be so stolen or obtained,

or who conceals, sells, withholds, or aids in concealing, selling,
or withholding any property from the owner, knowing the property to
be so stolen or obtained, shall be punished by imprisonment in a
state prison, or in a county jail for not more than one year.

However, if the district attorney or the grand jury determines that
this action would be in the interests of justice, the district
attorney or the grand jury, as the case may be, may, if the value of
the property does not exceed nine hundred fifty dollars ($950),
specify in the accusatory pleading that the offense shall be a
misdemeanor, punishable only by imprisonment in a county jail not
exceeding one year.

Not sure what to make of the last part... it may mean that since the value is over $950 it is considered a felony. But anyway... someone knowing that they are buying something stolen is a crime, punishable by jailtime. Gizmodo knew the phone was not the property of the finder.


3. Gray Powell will get fired!
He lost the prototype phone a month ago, and appears to still work for Apple. If they were going to fire him, they would have done so by now.


Just my opinions


Thank you kind sir. People have to realize that each state have their own set of laws and just because you have a law in your state, doesnt mean it will be the same in a State like California
 
The guy left the phone in a bar. Chen gave Apple the phone back when they asked for it. It's just a phone, not a top secret weapon. Steve's a** is just chaffed, how about that guy who showed Woz the ipad and got fired.
Unproven and possibly false.
 
Just what California needs right now, lock this dangerous criminal up for 80K a year. He is such a threat to society.

People like kevin Mitnick went to jail as well..Since Chen doesn't respect trade secret, he is capable of doing similar crimes which may cost more tax payer money.
 
The thing that everyone here assumes though is that the phone was stolen. I have a feeling that no charges have been filed yet because that is what the DA is trying to figure out. It's easy to say if the finder didn't do X (and really, trying random email addresses at Apple is likely beyond reasonable) then it was stolen, but what you or I think is reasonable may or may not be reasonable in the DA's eyes, the judges, and ultimately under CA law. IMHO, that is the big question that the DA is trying to answer and it's not as simple as people on here are trying to make it seem.
.

I do disagree. You cannot sell something that isn't yours. Under which circumstances he could have thought he is in the right to sell it? Maybe when a Apple support person said: "It is not ours do whatever you want with it"? Hardly. If the eng. did not give him it as a present or sold it I doubt - which none of the stories say - I see no way that it is not "illegal".
 
Just what California needs right now, lock this dangerous criminal up for 80K a year. He is such a threat to society.

He's done a lot more than $80k damage to a local tax paying employer of lots of local taxpaying employees.
 
People like kevin Mitnick went to jail as well..Since Chen doesn't respect trade secret, he is capable of doing similar crimes which may cost more tax payer money.


Do you really believe that?
 
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